Have it All - Shorex Warning

[Tampa Girl]

10 hours ago, REOVA said:

Not sure how you jumped to that conclusion. It is a fact that if you make it easier for people to obtain something, their usage increases. I travel with 3 non (minimum) drinkers whom, when have HIA, will endulge in drinks they normally would not (both alcohol and non).. It has nothing to do with being mindless with no self control. It is more about what marketing understands. "If you build it they will come". 

 

It is obviously not a fact which is applicable to everyone.  This "conclusion" is based on some people's observations and is, IMHO, an over-generalization of the poster's contention that making alcohol freely available will invite an excessive consumption of alcohol.  Nor does an additional  one or two drinks necessarily constitute an excessive consumption of alcohol.  And as another poster pointed out, of what concern is that possibility to any of us?  A HAL ship is not usually filled with out-of-control spring breakers, to whom this over-generalization might apply. It has been my observation that the average cruiser on a HAL ship is mature and sufficiently intelligent enough to drink in moderation, even when tempted by "free drinks."  As far as the HIA signature beverage package being a marketing tool, I wonder what profit, if any, HAL realizes from that particular  package.  I doubt if there is much of a profit if a cruiser is taking advantage of 15 free drinks per day.

[Florida_gal_50]

46 minutes ago, VennDiagram said:

@SueMo thank you, I've been struggling with trying to say what you said so well and so clearly 👍

 

We have met several people who were very concerned about getting the "most for their money".  Pre-Covid, one couple spent the entire welcome-aboard lunch talking about how they'd gotten a free promo on the beverage package and how they would work it to their advantage.  They had 3 drinks each over the course of about an hour.  They were unsteady on their feet when they left the dining room, with their firmed-up plan for getting the most for their money 🙂 

Saw them the next day, and it was OBVIOUS they were getting the most for their money.  I have no idea if they drank like that at home, but that free beverage package was obviously a high point for their vacation.

Really?  Did they have this promo pre covid?  Which ship?  Several? I’ve actually been on a ship since Covid and I’ve seen none of this behaviour that you’ve seen so much of.  Do tell. 

[HappyInVan]

13 hours ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

A true amateur!  (I can't find the smiley face, sorry!)

 

Wow!!!!

 

😁

[Tampa Girl]

10 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Wow!!!!

 

😁

Note the reference to "smiley face!"  That was a joke!

[HALcruiser2001]

5 hours ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

It is obviously not a fact which is applicable to everyone.  This "conclusion" is based on some people's observations and is, IMHO, an over-generalization of the poster's contention that making alcohol freely available will invite an excessive consumption of alcohol.  Nor does an additional  one or two drinks necessarily constitute an excessive consumption of alcohol.  And as another poster pointed out, of what concern is that possibility to any of us?  A HAL ship is not usually filled with out-of-control spring breakers, to whom this over-generalization might apply. It has been my observation that the average cruiser on a HAL ship is mature and sufficiently intelligent enough to drink in moderation, even when tempted by "free drinks."  As far as the HIA signature beverage package being a marketing tool, I wonder what profit, if any, HAL realizes from that particular  package.  I doubt if there is much of a profit if a cruiser is taking advantage of 15 free drinks per day.

Well, there is one in every crowd for sure.

15 drinks per day will definitely still make them money.  I think the drink packages are $60 with gratuity.  15 standard drinks would be 15 wine, beer or shots.  At the discount rates that HAL buys alcohol, this is easily a money maker.  Grey Goose is $45 retail.  They probably buy it for about $30, so they double their money.  Kendall Jackson is near top of the line for HIA, it is $13/750ml.  It would take 3 bottles to reach max with HIA, so it is likely this is < $10/750ml for HAL and again, they double their money on the wine alone.  They would make WAY more money if it was 15 beers as a 18 pack of Heineken can be had wholesale for about $14.

This is consistent with industry standards for a typical wholesale, retail and typical restaurant prices.

 

I have only sailed two cruises.  ~20 years ago, both HAL. 

I do not remember a single over intoxicated drunk on HAL and I remember encounters with drunks as they usually are men and they usually pick on the small guy if they get belligerent (which is either me or the REALLY small guy).   I drink less when I am traveling as I believe it is the most important time to be situationally aware when around a ton of strangers, especially around drunk/belligerent strangers, pick pockets, etc.

No doubt if you buy all your water/soda/coffee and dedicate your HIA drink allowance to only alcohol, you might just get drunk, depends on your tolerance and how motivated you are to get drunk. I guess there is some validity to the underlying reasons that happyinvan states what he does, but it seems more like he/she has an issue with "addicts", HIA, HAL and the very few people that might abuse it.  I am only concerned about if they impact my vacation or confront me in some way.

No doubt that if a light drinker decides to "get their money's worth", they could end up a drunken fool if they do not moderate over time.

A drink per hour (not average over time, literally 1/hr spaced an 1 hr apart) you will remain legally sober if you are a 200lb male.  If you are active during any part of that, it may metabolize even quicker.   A typical male liver can metabolize 1 standard drink per hour. 

Drinking 4 shots instantly, means all that alcohol is in your blood and you likely will be right at .08 (DUI) first then after 2 hour you would be below .05 (DWAI) and sober after 4.  This kind of drinking is not rare for many people and heavy drinkers are expert at hiding it, even if they over indulge for an hour or two.  Many heavy drinkers can pass a sobriety test relatively easily 30min after 4 shots.  Light drinkers not so much.  Both would fail breathalyzer.

I am not advocating that this is a wise way to live your cruise or your life.

Because of the science in BAC, I think it is really unlikely that the HIA encourages over indulgence.  If you are a heavy drinker (binge or otherwise), you will drink a lot regardless if you have HIA or not.  You will just spend more without HIA and heavy drinkers will do just that.   Binge drinkers will binge as well.  Someone not used to the effects of alcohol, can easily go south after a couple hours of 4/hr, a heavy drinker can likely hide this as long as they do not continue for hours on end.

https://alcorehab.org/bac-calculator/

I recommend any drinker have a breathalyzer.  I had one and they can be pretty interesting.  Just don't get carried away with your research.  😉  

Edited December 19, 2022 by bdd123

[Tampa Girl]

34 minutes ago, bdd123 said:

Well, there is one in every crowd for sure.

15 drinks per day will definitely still make them money.  I think the drink packages are $60 with gratuity.  15 standard drinks would be 15 wine, beer or shots.  At the discount rates that HAL buys alcohol, this is easily a money maker.  Grey Goose is $45 retail.  They probably buy it for about $30, so they double their money.  Kendall Jackson is near top of the line for HIA, it is $13/750ml.  It would take 3 bottles to reach max with HIA, so it is likely this is < $10/750ml for HAL and again, they double their money on the wine alone.  They would make WAY more money if it was 15 beers as a 18 pack of Heineken can be had wholesale for about $14.

This is consistent with industry standards for a typical wholesale, retail and typical restaurant prices.

 

I have only sailed two cruises.  ~20 years ago, both HAL. 

I do not remember a single over intoxicated drunk on HAL and I remember encounters with drunks as they usually are men and they usually pick on the small guy if they get belligerent (which is either me or the REALLY small guy).   I drink less when I am traveling as I believe it is the most important time to be situationally aware when around a ton of strangers, especially around drunk/belligerent strangers, pick pockets, etc.

No doubt if you buy all your water/soda/coffee and dedicate your HIA drink allowance to only alcohol, you might just get drunk, depends on your tolerance and how motivated you are to get drunk. I guess there is some validity to the underlying reasons that happyinvan states what he does, but it seems more like he/she has an issue with "addicts", HIA, HAL and the very few people that might abuse it.  I am only concerned about if they impact my vacation or confront me in some way.

No doubt that if a light drinker decides to "get their money's worth", they could end up a drunken fool if they do not moderate over time.

A drink per hour (not average over time, literally 1/hr spaced an 1 hr apart) you will remain legally sober if you are a 200lb male.  If you are active during any part of that, it may metabolize even quicker.   A typical male liver can metabolize 1 standard drink per hour. 

Drinking 4 shots instantly, means all that alcohol is in your blood and you likely will be right at .08 (DUI) first then after 2 hour you would be below .05 (DWAI) and sober after 4.  This kind of drinking is not rare for many people and heavy drinkers are expert at hiding it, even if they over indulge for an hour or two.  Many heavy drinkers can pass a sobriety test relatively easily 30min after 4 shots.  Light drinkers not so much.  Both would fail breathalyzer.

I am not advocating that this is a wise way to live your cruise or your life.

Because of the science in BAC, I think it is really unlikely that the HIA encourages over indulgence.  If you are a heavy drinker (binge or otherwise), you will drink a lot regardless if you have HIA or not.  You will just spend more without HIA and heavy drinkers will do just that.   Binge drinkers will binge as well.  Someone not used to the effects of alcohol, can easily go south after a couple hours of 4/hr, a heavy drinker can likely hide this as long as they do not continue for hours on end.

https://alcorehab.org/bac-calculator/

I recommend any drinker have a breathalyzer.  I had one and they can be pretty interesting.  Just don't get carried away with your research.  😉  

 

Thank you for your interesting analysis.  Regarding profit of selling alcohol, I was thinking very simplistically:  $8 or $9 drink x 15 drinks, should one actually go through that many drinks in a day, would cut into the profit, i.e. Up to $120 - $135 a day in lost income if the person had to pay for each drink.  However, as you pointed out, the ship makes a healthy profit, considering the cost of the bottle.

[HappyInVan]

12 hours ago, bdd123 said:

I drink less when I am traveling as I believe it is the most important time to be situationally aware when around a ton of strangers, especially around drunk/belligerent strangers, pick pockets, etc.

 

 

Yet, there are people who drink more when they're on holiday and not driving! I don't hang around the bars. So, I can't say what its like at closing time.

 

Of course, HAL is going to make money on the packages. They've figured out what the average consumption per customer, and priced it accordingly. The point is that they have a choice of offering packages with a 5-drinks limit instead of 15-drinks.

 

Look at the customers as represented by a bell curve. 5-10% of them will over-consume. Do they over-consume at 5 drinks or 15 drinks.

 

Some will boast of their tolerance for alcohol. What does it mean when a body needs more and more alcohol to get a buzz?

 

[Florida_gal_50]

5 to 10 percent over consume?  Some posters made it sound like everyone was doing that.  

[BobbiSox]

I probably would not buy the HIA package, but I enjoyed it on when it was inculded in my fare at no 'extra' charge. I think it's a nice option. 

[Florida_gal_50]

42 minutes ago, BobbiSox said:

I probably would not buy the HIA package, but I enjoyed it on when it was inculded in my fare at no 'extra' charge. I think it's a nice option. 

There is an extra charge though.  Hal has 3 fares.  One non refundable, one advantage and the hia.  The advantage fare is not published because hal wants to push people into hia so clearly they are winning on that promo.  You have to specifically ask for that fare.  It is refundable.

[Ellencruise]

I am not a frequent drinker of alcoholic beverages, one margarita a week for me! However, I bought HIA and enjoyed trying a cocktail each day that I would not think of making at home. HAL probably made money off of me but I had the smallest bill at the end of my cruise ever in my years of cruising, and I felt that the cost of the cruise was great to begin with!
Happy cruising to all in 2023 and beyond.

[3rdGenCunarder]

3 hours ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

There is an extra charge though.  Hal has 3 fares.  One non refundable, one advantage and the hia.  The advantage fare is not published because hal wants to push people into hia so clearly they are winning on that promo.  You have to specifically ask for that fare.  It is refundable.

 

Yes, there is a charge for everything. "Freebies" are worked into the price. This has been true for longer than many people know. Before the website would show multiple price options (with/without promos, etc), my TA could give me prices with and without whatever promo was going on at the time. I would not have known I could decline a promo and save money if she hadn't told me. 

 

As a solo, I never take the promo fares because I'm paying for two promos and getting only one. But when HAL offered me the 50% HIA, it worked out to be a reasonable expenditure. I did not spend the entire excursion budge because I chose inexpensive ones. It would be nice to have the "leftover" money as OBC, but it is what it is. 

[KroozNut]

On 12/17/2022 at 12:52 PM, Mary229 said:

Use the airport transfer.  I know it’s not the first choice but it saves your taxi cost.  

 

 

If we didn't purchase airport transfers at time of booking, and now think we may want them, where/how can we purchase them?

[Guest ldtr]

On 12/19/2022 at 6:29 AM, Tampa Girl said:

 

It is obviously not a fact which is applicable to everyone.  This "conclusion" is based on some people's observations and is, IMHO, an over-generalization of the poster's contention that making alcohol freely available will invite an excessive consumption of alcohol.  Nor does an additional  one or two drinks necessarily constitute an excessive consumption of alcohol.  And as another poster pointed out, of what concern is that possibility to any of us?  A HAL ship is not usually filled with out-of-control spring breakers, to whom this over-generalization might apply. It has been my observation that the average cruiser on a HAL ship is mature and sufficiently intelligent enough to drink in moderation, even when tempted by "free drinks."  As far as the HIA signature beverage package being a marketing tool, I wonder what profit, if any, HAL realizes from that particular  package.  I doubt if there is much of a profit if a cruiser is taking advantage of 15 free drinks per day.

Considering the profit margin on alcohol I expect the cruise line to make a profit even with 15 drinks. They may not make much, but certainly not a loss.  The packages basically lock in a substantial  portion of on board spending in advance of the cruise and result in increased revenue for the cruise line, since most do not drink up to the limit. Plus it locks in other items that passengers might not but ala carte.

 

All of the mass market lines would not be doing it if it did not increase revenue.

Edited December 20, 2022 by ldtr

[bozemanman]

1 hour ago, KroozNut said:

 

If we didn't purchase airport transfers at time of booking, and now think we may want them, where/how can we purchase them?

HAL website...pre and post travel options

[HALcruiser2001]

52 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Considering the profit margin on alcohol I expect the cruise line to make a profit even with 15 drinks. They may not make much, but certainly not a loss.  The packages basically lock in a substantial  portion of on board spending in advance of the cruise and result in increased revenue for the cruise line, since most do not drink up to the limit. Plus it locks in other items that passengers might not but ala carte.

 

All of the mass market lines would not be doing it if it did not increase revenue.

I posted a big analysis on this.  No doubt the cruise lines can make more money per drink or bottle, but even with HIA, they double their money.  It is always better to make some money vs none, plus it is convenient knowing if you stay within limits there are no other charges.

[LMaxwell]

If we have HIA and spouse does not want to go on an excursion, can she purchase a ticket for someone in another room as a gift to them using her credit? 

[Mary229]

3 hours ago, KroozNut said:

 

If we didn't purchase airport transfers at time of booking, and now think we may want them, where/how can we purchase them?

You can buy them on the ship up to 24 hours before debarking. 

[Mary229]

1 hour ago, bozemanman said:

HAL website...pre and post travel options

I do not think the credit will work for these.  These are listed under shore excursions.  Usually there are two options each with a wheelchair variation.  One option will be to go direct to the airport, , another option will include some sightseeing with airport drop off

[HALcruiser2001]

1 hour ago, LMaxwell said:

If we have HIA and spouse does not want to go on an excursion, can she purchase a ticket for someone in another room as a gift to them using her credit? 

If it matters.  HAL told me that I have $100 and my wife has $100 and I cannot use hers.  So I would guess it is impossible to gift it to someone else.  But you never know.  Think about the money.  They likely have no legal or monitary reason to allow you to gift it to someone.  You could however just have it issued to your spouse and have them try to use it  Not sure on those logistics though.
 

Be interested in your results.  Definitely, you will not be able to transfer to OBC, that seemed right out.

But, IMO, it is worth calling them numerous times, you might get an answer that is more positive.

 

[LMaxwell]

3 minutes ago, bdd123 said:

If it matters.  HAL told me that I have $100 and my wife has $100 and I cannot use hers.  So I would guess it is impossible to gift it to someone else.  But you never know.  Think about the money.  They likely have no legal or monitary reason to allow you to gift it to someone.  You could however just have it issued to your spouse and have them try to use it  Not sure on those logistics though.
 

Be interested in your results.  Definitely, you will not be able to transfer to OBC, that seemed right out.

But, IMO, it is worth calling them numerous times, you might get an answer that is more positive.

 

 

What I am envisioning is at ShoreEx desk asking to make the purchase for someone else onboard and be deducted from our ShoreEx credit.  

 

Given that they told you that you can't even use your spouses credit, this is unlikely. If your wife wanted to treat the ship like resort while in port and you wanted to explore on multiple excursions, I think you should be able to. I don't know how common that situation is, but I think you should be able to use both the credits that you've been charged for. 

 

For 2024 I am looking at some HIA early booking bonus that includes crew appreciation charges, otherwise I wouldn't normally consider the package at all. Our total alcohol bill from a week long cruise was under $100 and that included $30 for a mixology class for both of us. At least $100 is enough to have some decent selections of tours; NCL gives you $50 credit but their tours cost more than booking privately so it's pretty much a wash. I actually cancelled a 3rd party tour and booked w HAL because the HAL tour was identical price so I figured there's no gain going w 3rd party in that case. 

[KroozNut]

26 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I do not think the credit will work for these.  These are listed under shore excursions.  Usually there are two options each with a wheelchair variation.  One option will be to go direct to the airport, , another option will include some sightseeing with airport drop off

 

Can we purchase transfers onboard, and if so, use OBC for this?

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, bozemanman said:

HAL website...pre and post travel options

Or you can call HAL and purchase them.

[ontheweb]

29 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I do not think the credit will work for these.  These are listed under shore excursions.  Usually there are two options each with a wheelchair variation.  One option will be to go direct to the airport, , another option will include some sightseeing with airport drop off

I don't know if it is the same with HAL, thought I think it would be, but with Princess the excursion back to the airport with sightseeing was treated like an excursion when it came to using credits.

[KroozNut]

1 minute ago, ontheweb said:

Or you can call HAL and purchase them.

 

Thanks, but I'm wondering if we can purchase them after we board the ship for cruise port to airport transportation at end of the cruise. We have a lot of OBC, and are looking for various ways to use it after boarding.