Muster Drill Question

[sailorusvi]

Things I never knew were saga inducing:

 

$2.00 bill, free bottled water and now having to give up 30 minutes or so of your life going to a muster station.

 

I feel so sheltered not knowing any of the above.

[RocketMan275]

Just now, zqvol said:

There aren’t extra crew to train to act that way, they all have duties.  

There are more than enough crew.  You don't have to simulate a boat load of passengers. Only a few non-compliant ones.  I'm sure you would have plenty of volunteers.  

[chengkp75]

4 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

There are better ways to do that.  Certain crew members could be designated/trained to act in a non-complaint manner during training exercises.  This could be done on port days.  Much better than random misbehaving passengers during a muster drill.

And, where would the hundreds of crew acting as the "compliant" passengers that are intermingled with the non-compliant ones come from?  And, when the "non-compliant" crew member acting as a passenger is a friend of the crew member at the assigned station where the "non-compliance" happens, how realistic is that?  And where would this training be accomplished that it would not impact passengers, even on port days, since the pax count is never zero on port days?

 

[RocketMan275]

1 minute ago, sailorusvi said:

Things I never knew were saga inducing:

 

$2.00 bill, free bottled water and now having to give up 30 minutes or so of your life going to a muster station.

 

I feel so sheltered not knowing any of the above.

My complaint isn't giving up 30 minutes.  My complaint is the lack of effective training I've seen in the past and a 'we've always done it this way' attitude.

[debenson0723]

1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

My only experience with NCL was last March on Breakaway where the muster only required you to report to your muster station where your card was scanned and having to watch the muster video.  I got as much out of that as I've gotten from the older types of muster drills.

 

And this is where you don't understand. Out of almost 20 NCL cruises, only one has been outside (on the Sky). The rest have been either in the theater where you can see and hear the instructions or the Local, where several crew are stationed so you can observe while the instructions come over the speaker. As mentioned, this is where you would gather indoors and then be directed out to the lifeboats in a real emergency. Outdoors, in the heat, with life jackets on is a thing of the past on NCL (other than 3 ships).

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Simply stating this is the law is no excuse.   Enhancing passenger safety should always be an objective of paramount importance.  Why not change the laws if there are better ways?

Who decides what procedures are required, and which are not effective?  A committee of maritime safety experts, from many countries, with centuries of accumulated experience.  So, if you feel that the old way is inefficient, apply to the IMO with your solutions.

[RocketMan275]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

And, where would the hundreds of crew acting as the "compliant" passengers that are intermingled with the non-compliant ones come from?  And, when the "non-compliant" crew member acting as a passenger is a friend of the crew member at the assigned station where the "non-compliance" happens, how realistic is that?  And where would this training be accomplished that it would not impact passengers, even on port days, since the pax count is never zero on port days?

 

Use  your imagination.  You don't need hundreds of crew acting as compliant passengers when the objective is to train the crew in dealing with a few non-compliant passengers.

It would be relatively simple to ensure that the non-compliant are  not friends of those being trained.  The non-complaint would receive specific and detailed training in presenting non-compliant scenarios.

BTW, the crew interactions with real passengers acting in a non-compliant manner during a drill isn't realistic training either.

The training doesn't have to be conducted where it doesn't impact passengers.

[chengkp75]

5 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

There are more than enough crew.  You don't have to simulate a boat load of passengers. Only a few non-compliant ones.  I'm sure you would have plenty of volunteers.  

Really?  And how close is that to the "train as you fight" concept?  As I said above, you would need to mix in the few bad actors into the crowd of sheep to have an effective training.  And, I think you would find that there are very few crew who are not working, even on port days, and who would not want to volunteer for extra work as "actors", since safety training outside of normal work hours is not compensated.

[RocketMan275]

3 minutes ago, debenson0723 said:

And this is where you don't understand. Out of almost 20 NCL cruises, only one has been outside (on the Sky). The rest have been either in the theater where you can see and hear the instructions or the Local, where several crew are stationed so you can observe while the instructions come over the speaker. As mentioned, this is where you would gather indoors and then be directed out to the lifeboats in a real emergency. Outdoors, in the heat, with life jackets on is a thing of the past on NCL (other than 3 ships).

Great. I understand that.  The process you outlined isn't the process I've been commenting upon. 

[chengkp75]

1 minute ago, RocketMan275 said:

The training doesn't have to be conducted where it doesn't impact passengers.

Just so long as it doesn't impact one specific passenger?

[RocketMan275]

Just now, chengkp75 said:

Really?  And how close is that to the "train as you fight" concept?  As I said above, you would need to mix in the few bad actors into the crowd of sheep to have an effective training.  And, I think you would find that there are very few crew who are not working, even on port days, and who would not want to volunteer for extra work as "actors", since safety training outside of normal work hours is not compensated.

Typically, one can find many volunteers if their objective is to act out.  

And, no, you don't need many sheep to train the sheep dogs on dealing with wolves.

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Use  your imagination. 

Ah, imagination.  That is a tried and true training tool.  Have you ever trained up to 2000 people to act as a single team effort (working for one goal, eliminating the emergency and ensuring that all lives are saved), in a space as complex (hundreds of individual spaces) as a cruise ship?  I don't think imagination would get too far in this situation.

[LloydJr]

5 hours ago, ontheweb said:

My guess is that a majority will not like it, while a minority will realize it is for their safety.

It might be for their safety, but it is a 99.999999999% chance that it's a total waste of time.  Some of us are ready, willing and able to take that risk.

[chengkp75]

5 minutes ago, LloydJr said:

It might be for their safety, but it is a 99.999999999% chance that it's a total waste of time.  Some of us are ready, willing and able to take that risk.

So, since the chance is so small, maybe the crew should not bother training for this as well, since those who they are training to save don't give a damn about it, and it becomes a waste of time for them.

[LloydJr]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Not really necessary, the purpose of muster drill is to show up, shut up, and listen up, in that order.

If the 80% aren't expected to comply with "b," then how are the 20% expected to benefit from "c?"

1 hour ago, wolft927 said:

Maybe go back to the days of the Titanic and ensure music is being played as well as drinks being served.

Now we're talking!  Somebody remind me again, when was the last time that a contemporary cruise ship passenger died because they didn't embrace the muster drill?

[LloydJr]

1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

I am taking the muster drill seriously

I don't.  There are two groups of cruisers.  Those who say they take these drills seriously and honest people.

1 hour ago, RocketMan275 said:

My complaint isn't giving up 30 minutes.

Mine is.  It's a total waste of time.  I already know that if the ship starts sinking I need to get to a lifeboat (which, unlike those mindless NCL training videos, captured my attention and was entertaining).  I learned that from a movie.  The rest is just noise.

[RocketMan275]

5 minutes ago, LloydJr said:

I don't.  There are two groups of cruisers.  Those who say they take these drills seriously and honest people.

Mine is.  It's a total waste of time.  I already know that if the ship starts sinking I need to get to a lifeboat (which, unlike those mindless NCL training videos, captured my attention and was entertaining).  I learned that from a movie.  The rest is just noise.

I note that we're not the only ones who are critical of the muster drills.

 

From this thread:

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2903254-ncl-breakaway-live-from/#comment-64672559

 

9 hours ago, nikkiw60 said:

The muster drill was one big shambles! We were told to go to the muster station at 3pm, ours was the main atrium it was absolutely crowded, we stood there till about 3.30 they then did the muster which seemed to take forever but was about 15 minutes! It was so bad that at the end people cheered and gave a round of applause! I don’t have all the menus but will post what I have. Also the queue to embark at New Orleans took over an hour. The ship departed just over an hour late at 5pm.

Also if you have booked any private tours at any of the ports we were given a note At embarkation the we would now be arriving 

in Costa Maya at 1.30pm and Cozumel at 10.30am. I think this has happened a lot recently.

 

And this post:

like2cruise said:

"I hope you are having a great cruise?  Could you please post any menus from the MDR.  Would also love to hear about the Muster Drill for your sailing...I have heard rumors they are going back to the pre-covid drills...please say it isn't so :)!"

 

The bottom line: when you present training that is woefully inappropriate, you cannot expect it to be effective.  Something needs to be done instead of just blindly claiming it is the law, we have no choice, we've always done it this way, 

Edited January 20, 2023 by RocketMan275

[chengkp75]

13 minutes ago, LloydJr said:

If the 80% aren't expected to comply with "b," then how are the 20% expected to benefit from "c?"

Because in a real emergency, the crew drop the "service industry" attitude, and will make the passengers shut up.

 

14 minutes ago, LloydJr said:

Now we're talking!  Somebody remind me again, when was the last time that a contemporary cruise ship passenger died because they didn't embrace the muster drill?

Does the word "Concordia" bring anything to mind?

 

6 minutes ago, LloydJr said:

I already know that if the ship starts sinking I need to get to a lifeboat

And, you will be one of those that we have to send crew members after to find for the muster.  First off, the muster will be called long before any thought is given to putting passengers into a boat, and may actually be called for a situation where the ship is in no danger whatsoever.

 

8 minutes ago, LloydJr said:

I learned that from a movie.

Which movie is that?  Poseidon Adventure?  Ships don't sink in an instant, and do you know what to do once you get to a boat?

[New2cruise2022]

I think someone was getting bored with $2 bill and Free Water Threads and started this one to stop the commenting on the other two. This one is well in its way. 

[chengkp75]

6 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

I note that we're not the only ones who are critical of the muster drills.

And, their complaint was that it was "crowded" and took time.  Serious problems.

[RocketMan275]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

And, you will be one of those that we have to send crew members after to find for the muster.  First off, the muster will be called long before any thought is given to putting passengers into a boat, and may actually be called for a situation where the ship is in no danger whatsoever.

Precisely one of the points I've made.  How long do you expect to keep the passengers standing under a lifeboat in adverse weather, withoug food or water, and no restrooms?  This process needs improvement.

[LloydJr]

3 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

I note that we're not the only ones who are critical of the muster drills.

They're a joke.  Similar to those safety "evacuation drills" that we used to conduct at MegaCorp.  Yeah, who wouldn't just run for the nearest clean exit if the building was on fire?

 

[RocketMan275]

Just now, chengkp75 said:

And, their complaint was that it was "crowded" and took time.  Serious problems.

No, the complaint is that it is ineffective and a waste of time.

[chengkp75]

Just now, LloydJr said:

I guess I don't.  And this despite multiple NCL muster drills! 🤣

That's because you're not expected to know, and you're not expected to head to a lifeboat on your own.

[aubreyc1988]

Just now, RocketMan275 said:

Clearly some are emotionally attached to the old fashioned muster drill and do not wish to think that it can be improved.

While I think maybe the e-muster could be improved, I don't see any reason to go back to the previous way of doing things. I dread it to be honest. I'm fine with doing something for safety that makes sense, but the old way we did muster drills was not good or informative...just a checkbox to tick off for the cruiseline and usually an uncomfortable 20+ minutes for passengers.