Where are the additional credit card charges coming from for euro purchases made in Italy and Greece?

[FetaCheese]

Used my Cap360 (no forex fee) debit card at BCN Caixa bank ATM, Dec. 2022.  There was a flat 7 euro ATM fee for any W/D amount.  Another screen asked if you wanted to have transaction in Euro or USD.  Chose Euro, and importantly -- no conversion.  Took out 200 Euro, was charged 207.  After factoring in 7 Euro fee, exchange rate was nearly exact Forex rate.

 

Used Visa and AMEX for some purchases.  Cap360 debit for 1. Best forex rate was Cap360. Going forward, will always W/D more Euros at Bank ATM with Cap360, and just pay cash.  No more wondering about who adds on, or how much, to original purchase price.

 

I do not work for Capital One.

Edited February 26, 2023 by FetaCheese
Addl info

[Vagabond51]

There have been many bills written in Congress over the years to provide consumers uniform simple clearly defined charges, fees, exchange rates and "other' fees. All have never gotten through the US Senate. All DOA. All those embedded fees, bloated exchange rates and cryptic statement abbreviations buys really good lobbying. Maybe someday.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Vagabond51

[Cienfuegos]

Not directly on point, but it's useful to ask your US bank if it has correspondent or similar relationships with specific banks where you'll be traveling.  In the Canadian Maritimes, the Bank of America has (had?)  such a relationship with ScotiaBank.  No foreign exchange or ATM fees when using a ScotiaBank Automatic Teller Machine ATM, or cashing a BAC check there.  BAC has a similar relationship with Santander in Spain, and Unicredito in Italy.  You also get the wholesale (bank to bank) exchange rate rather than the less favorable retail (bank to retail customer) rate.

 

--------------------------------------

 

Since we're on the topic, many no name or brand X ATM units in gas stations, supermarkets, etc are controlled by major banks through various non-regulated subsidiaries. They rent space, and split profits on the machine with the landlord of the store. So, Presto machines are controlled by PNC Financial, I believe. So,even if you're withdrawing from a PNC account with a PNC ATM card, you will be hit with a charge for the use of the machine, plus an "out of network" charge for the use of that machine. 

 

My local supermarket, which has a Presto machine, recently restricted its cash back on purchases to a max of $25. Any more and you need to go outside to use the ATM, and pay those fees.

[oskidunker]

Citibank is in 7-11. No fees if you have a citibank acct

[uktog]

People forget there are merchant fees wherever you use your credit card both at home and abroad.  At home it is just a "cost of sale" the seller has to take.  However when you are overseas there are the usual merchant fees plus they pay a handling charge for currency conversion.  If you look closely those cards that do not pass a handling charge often convert your transaction at a marginally less good rate (I am talking about  5 c different (eg 1.1235 rather than 1.124) you hardly notice but over all the transactions they put through for everyone globally it recovers cost.  In EU law the seller cannot charge a different (higher) price if you pay by card.

People say use cash to avoid charges - well usually purchasing cash gives you an even worse rate -if the card was converting at 1.235 you might buy cash at around 1.195 so it does mount up 

(Note I am not saying these are todays rate just figures to illustrate!)

I continue to use my card as it gives my some protections in law and some providers give additional protections however, I work with one card at home and one abroad for lots of reasons

 

a.  One card (Amex) gives me lots of protections but its overseas fees are way above the Nationwide card I use abroad (for UK guests to Post Office also has a zero rate card like Nationwide)

b.  I do not use pre loaded currency cards, far less protection if one gets lost or cloned

c.  Despite Nationwides regular offers to increase my limit well into six figures I will not allow them to increase it to six figures  That way I have limited risk of theft or cloning.  We do take the Amex card with us, it has lots of holidays in the ship safe, but it is with us incase we had to pay out something big unexpected (the sort of thing like flights or medical that insurers would ultimately cover.

 

So with cards as with all things do your homework, ask around and be informed when making decisions and remember things are different abroad.....

[longterm]

On 2/25/2023 at 10:46 PM, LibertyBella said:

Before I travel to Europe next month I am going to get some Euros from my bank to use for smaller purchases.

A couple of trips ago, we went to our local Chase bank and converted some money to euros. The exchange rate, by the time we received the money, was awful, and I have vowed never again to convert dollars ahead of time.

 

I use bank ATMs when I'm overseas--not freestanding ATMs that aren't directly in front of a local bank. This is what we'll do in May when we are in Tuscany, and has served us well. 

[OneSixtyToOne]

3 hours ago, uktog said:

People say use cash to avoid charges - well usually purchasing cash gives you an even worse rate -if the card was converting at 1.235 you might buy cash at around 1.195 so it does mount up 

A lot of places won't take cash anymore

[longterm]

1 hour ago, OneSixtyToOne said:

A lot of places won't take cash anymore

True; we've been to 2 concerts in Dallas lately, and at both venues they were card only in the entire facility. Generally, I only use cash overseas when I'm in a small shop or buying from a vendor on the street.

[RonWY]

On 2/25/2023 at 12:28 PM, OnTheJourney said:

Pertaining to the same recent cruise - the Cities of Antiquities- at various merchants, including restaurants, I used my Bank of America VISA card and, despite the exchange rate being basically 1 for 1 all the time we were over there, I'm seeing about an 8% mark-up to arrive at the total USD charge. Why is this? The credit card slips I have don't reflect any VAT or any other additional charges, so where is the extra coming from? I just contacted the credit card company and nothing is coming on their end. I actually expected the USD amount to be about the same. Is it VAT by any chance? I'm seeing a current VAT amount for Italy as being around 5% (fluctuates I suppose) so if you add that on plus whatever the individual merchants might be assessing for using a credit card, that could account for it all I suppose. Doesn't VAT typically reflect on a credit card slip? The only thing I see on one of the slips (Vatican gift shop) is "3.5% exchange rate mark-up" which would only account for an additional $1.75 though. I've emailed them to find out more since they have a convenient website to contact them. 

 

Thanks for any helpful thoughts. 

I think we need to go back to the original post. The exchange rate being essentially 1 to 1 recently is not quite accurate. It was approximately 1 to 1 awhile last year, but went to about $1.05 to $1.10 per euro after mid-November. Here’s the official exchange rate for the last 6 months. 
https://www.google.com/finance/quote/EUR-USD?window=6M

We were on the Jan 24 Cities Of Antiquity & The Holy Land and $1.08 to 1 euro was about right, and I’m certain I had no added fees or excessive exchange rate. 

[Selion]

21 hours ago, RonWY said:

I think we need to go back to the original post. The exchange rate being essentially 1 to 1 recently is not quite accurate. It was approximately 1 to 1 awhile last year, but went to about $1.05 to $1.10 per euro after mid-November. Here’s the official exchange rate for the last 6 months. 
https://www.google.com/finance/quote/EUR-USD?window=6M

We were on the Jan 24 Cities Of Antiquity & The Holy Land and $1.08 to 1 euro was about right, and I’m certain I had no added fees or excessive exchange rate. 

Or go to https://www.oanda.com/currency-converter/en/?from=EUR&to=USD&amount=1 and find the exchange rate of the POST DATE on your card statement.

[OneSixtyToOne]

I just check my Chase statement for when I had something to eat in Munich airport on 1/27. Lists the euro charge, the exchange rate for the date, and the US$ charged.

01/27    SISSI UND FRANZ E5 SAT MUENCHEN-FLUG 18.25

01/28    EURO                     16.70 X 1.092814371 (EXCHG RATE) 

 

The google calculator list the exchange rate for that day as 1.08981.

You mileage may vary.

Edited February 28, 2023 by OneSixtyToOne

[Sunflower & The Scientist]

On 2/27/2023 at 10:30 AM, longterm said:

True; we've been to 2 concerts in Dallas lately, and at both venues they were card only in the entire facility. Generally, I only use cash overseas when I'm in a small shop or buying from a vendor on the street.

We are on British Isle Explorer this summer and haven't traveled outside of the US and Canada since COVID...so I am thinking through what we need use cash for and what we need to use a card for. I see what you are saying about small shops and vendors. Anyone have advice on which is going to be better for restaurants? 

[longterm]

44 minutes ago, Sunflower & The Scientist said:

We are on British Isle Explorer this summer and haven't traveled outside of the US and Canada since COVID...so I am thinking through what we need use cash for and what we need to use a card for. I see what you are saying about small shops and vendors. Anyone have advice on which is going to be better for restaurants? 

We're doing that same cruise summer of 2024; I wish it was this year!

 

Most European restaurants these days don't disappear into the back of the restaurant with your card, like US restaurants often do; they have handheld card processors, and run your card in front of you--and these days most of the handhelds also allow you to run your card without even inserting it into the machine. 

 

However, I still prefer using local currency, so when we get to Italy in May, I'll find a local bank, use their ATM to get some euros and only use my card when absolutely necessary. Plus, it's been documented that people generally manage money better when it's currency rather than a credit or debit card. When the wallet starts to get thin, it's time to stop buying...

 

[OnTheJourney]

On 2/27/2023 at 2:43 PM, RonWY said:

We were on the Jan 24 Cities Of Antiquity & The Holy Land and $1.08 to 1 euro was about right, and I’m certain I had no added fees or excessive exchange rate. 

Same cruise I was on! I have no idea where the extra charges came from but I'm not going to spend additional time trying to find out since I don't think I can anyway. Did you do the Athens extension also? 

[Sunflower & The Scientist]

17 hours ago, longterm said:

We're doing that same cruise summer of 2024; I wish it was this year!

 

Most European restaurants these days don't disappear into the back of the restaurant with your card, like US restaurants often do; they have handheld card processors, and run your card in front of you--and these days most of the handhelds also allow you to run your card without even inserting it into the machine. 

 

However, I still prefer using local currency, so when we get to Italy in May, I'll find a local bank, use their ATM to get some euros and only use my card when absolutely necessary. Plus, it's been documented that people generally manage money better when it's currency rather than a credit or debit card. When the wallet starts to get thin, it's time to stop buying...

 

We typically are at the end of our cruise with local currency and trying to spend it quickly because we don't want to go home and exchange it. We aren't really shoppers abroad except if we are looking for something specifically. We don't eat in restaurants very often, but we always do local coffee. However, in the UK we are likely to want to try some local food. We've got a cruise down the Rhine in 2024 and Italy in 2025, and we will be trying more local foods on those cruises. 

[OnTheJourney]

24 minutes ago, Sunflower & The Scientist said:

trying to spend it quickly because we don't want to go home and exchange it....

...yeah, or keep it till whenever the next chance might be to use it, and so pretty much the same story here. Not much shopping abroad and basically just eat on the ship. Often we'll do some quick duty-free shopping at the airport before flying home as time allows. We had a pile of rubles left after our days in St. Petersburg during a Baltic cruise and so gave them all to our Alla tours guide as a tip - all that after fretting for days over getting rubles onboard. Every day there was a huge line. Eventually they ran out. Not even sure if they provide much foreign currency on ships anymore. That was with Royal Caribbean.