Are pre-paid gratuities even worth it any more?

[Ex-Airbalancer]

21 minutes ago, zitsky said:

If working conditions are that abusive, maybe we should petition the government to abolish cruise lines instead of supporting the practice?  Or at the very least, make them follow US labor law.

 

I once worked 60-80 hrs / week for 3 years.  I did it for, wait for it, the compensation.

 

 

They would be way better off to follow EU labour laws than the USA laws 😁

[jbcallender]

4 hours ago, Baggy178 said:

 

15% would be towards the top end of gratuities in the UK where hospitality staff are paid a legal minimum wage.

In our case the automatic gratuities would amount to 27% of our fare.

As we've already established US cruise lines are registered elsewhere precisely to avoid US labor and salary laws so I'm not sure why US gratuity levels are relevant here.

Why encourage multi-national corporations to avoid paying their staff a decent salary ?

And tipping someone just because they're away from home for a few months ? Hey sailor, welcome to life at sea.

At the end of the day gratuities are voluntary - I wouldn't allow a restaurant to tell me how much to tip so why treat cruise lines any different ?

 

 

 

Here is the relevent part to me - and this is entirely US reference based.  I realize that tipping standards in UK and EUrope are different.  I know that most restaurant servers in the US are making $4.00 to $6.00 an hour base and they usually have to tip out the busser and an assistant waiter and a backwaiter in a high end restaurant.  Your tip is a very definite part of the servers income, it's not an add-on or a "bonus" for the server.  The server is trying to make a living and you are part of that equation and saving yourself $3.00 on a good meal and good service might make you feel frugal, but in the end your askling the server to pay for your frugality.

 

The federal government requires that that a servers average wage including reported tips is at least minimum wage, based on hours worked.  If its not, the restaurant or hotel has to make up the difference, called "make-up tips".  And you might be saying "those greedy so and so reataurant owners", but most restaurant owners don't make a lot of money.  The rents, cost of food, beverage, linens, labor and equipment are all historically high while the customer complains about the cost of a meal.   The cost of food which was about 20% to 25% of the meal is now in the 40% range.  Maybe owners should pay more, but that's the way the business works.  So, next time you're eating out, buy a glass of wine and buy a dessert and reward good service.  Everyone will appreciate it.

 

As I said, I'm biased, having spent all my adult life in the business and been blessed by it.  As a result I can go on a cruise once a year or so. I will now get off my soap box.

 

 

[zitsky]

3 minutes ago, jbcallender said:

Here is the relevent part to me - and this is entirely US reference based.  I realize that tipping standards in UK and EUrope are different.  I know that most restaurant servers in the US are making $4.00 to $6.00 an hour base and they usually have to tip out the busser and an assistant waiter and a backwaiter in a high end restaurant.  Your tip is a very definite part of the servers income, it's not an add-on or a "bonus" for the server.  The server is trying to make a living and you are part of that equation and saving yourself $3.00 on a good meal and good service might make you feel frugal, but in the end your askling the server to pay for your frugality.

 

The federal government requires that that a servers average wage including reported tips is at least minimum wage, based on hours worked.  If its not, the restaurant or hotel has to make up the difference, called "make-up tips".  And you might be saying "those greedy so and so reataurant owners", but most restaurant owners don't make a lot of money.  The rents, cost of food, beverage, linens, labor and equipment are all historically high while the customer complains about the cost of a meal.   The cost of food which was about 20% to 25% of the meal is now in the 40% range.  Maybe owners should pay more, but that's the way the business works.  So, next time you're eating out, buy a glass of wine and buy a dessert and reward good service.  Everyone will appreciate it.

 

As I said, I'm biased, having spent all my adult life in the business and been blessed by it.  As a result I can go on a cruise once a year or so. I will now get off my soap box.

 

 

What a soap box!

 

1) Your tip is part of the server’s income.

 

2) That’s the way the business works

 

I normally tip 20%.  By choice.  For good service.  

 

When I was young I worked as a low paid secretary.  I didn’t get tips but I still tipped when I was in a restaurant.  Which I couldn’t afford often.

 

As an adult I wonder if I should sell my car so I can tip the waitstaff 50%.

[Baggy178]

31 minutes ago, jbcallender said:

Here is the relevent part to me - and this is entirely US reference based.  I realize that tipping standards in UK and EUrope are different.  I know that most restaurant servers in the US are making $4.00 to $6.00 an hour base and they usually have to tip out the busser and an assistant waiter and a backwaiter in a high end restaurant.  Your tip is a very definite part of the servers income, it's not an add-on or a "bonus" for the server.  The server is trying to make a living and you are part of that equation and saving yourself $3.00 on a good meal and good service might make you feel frugal, but in the end your askling the server to pay for your frugality.

 

The federal government requires that that a servers average wage including reported tips is at least minimum wage, based on hours worked.  If its not, the restaurant or hotel has to make up the difference, called "make-up tips".  And you might be saying "those greedy so and so reataurant owners", but most restaurant owners don't make a lot of money.  The rents, cost of food, beverage, linens, labor and equipment are all historically high while the customer complains about the cost of a meal.   The cost of food which was about 20% to 25% of the meal is now in the 40% range.  Maybe owners should pay more, but that's the way the business works.  So, next time you're eating out, buy a glass of wine and buy a dessert and reward good service.  Everyone will appreciate it.

 

As I said, I'm biased, having spent all my adult life in the business and been blessed by it.  As a result I can go on a cruise once a year or so. I will now get off my soap box.

 

 

 

I understand your point entirely about how the system works in the US.

But Celebrity purposely registers itself in Liberia to avoid that American system and you can bet your last dollar their gratuity system is in place to benefit the company first, employees second.

As a result we have no idea on what basis gratuities are distributed - who gets what and the criteria this is based on.

I think 15% of our fare is much fairer than 27% and will explain this to Customer Service without any remorse.

The tail should never wag the dog.

 

 

 

 

[grandgeezer]

I have nothing against tipping if the service is good and tipping extra if it is exceptional.

Through no fault of their own, the servers are stretched so thin, they have all they can do to just keep up, hence we have never eliminated them or cut them back.

I have one question for all you experts out there, why is it based on the cost of the product plus the tax which is built into the price. For example, we stop for a drink, I have a beer that cost $9 so the tip will be $1.80. My wife has a drink that cost $15 so the tip would be $3. Why?? The waiter took our order and delivered it at the same time, what did he do for the extra $1.20 for my wife?

[ldubs]

6 hours ago, Baggy178 said:

 

15% would be towards the top end of gratuities in the UK where hospitality staff are paid a legal minimum wage.

In our case the automatic gratuities would amount to 27% of our fare.

As we've already established US cruise lines are registered elsewhere precisely to avoid US labor and salary laws so I'm not sure why US gratuity levels are relevant here.

Why encourage multi-national corporations to avoid paying their staff a decent salary ?

And tipping someone just because they're away from home for a few months ? Hey sailor, welcome to life at sea.

At the end of the day gratuities are voluntary - I wouldn't allow a restaurant to tell me how much to tip so why treat cruise lines any different ?

 

 

Dude, you have made it very clear this is a personal financial decision.  It is your option so keep the money in your pocket if that is what you want.   I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with protecting the crew from greedy corporations.       

[Ex-Airbalancer]

There are business in Canada that use the tips that are paid with CC to pay for staff training 🙄

[Cornhogio]

DW and I are about to do our first Celebrity cruise.  We've done Disney, RCCL (2), HAL (2), NCL, and Carnival.

We pre-paid our gratuities for this upcoming trip.  Based on what I've read in this thread, we're ok to assume that's good, but it would be a good idea to keep back a few hundred in singles, fives, and tens to keep the wheels of service well lubricated.  

All the other cruises boards have the same robust discussion about the tipping culture on ships (as I'm sure you all know).  I'll do it because it's what's done, but I do think it's disingenuous of the cruise lines to not give customers a full picture of the costs of cruising.  

Rock on rockers!  🙂

[Travel-and-See]

And let’s remember that on Virgin they brag about paying employees 2-3x more than other lines so that the guests do not have to tip.  So it can be done.  

[zitsky]

41 minutes ago, Travel-and-See said:

And let’s remember that on Virgin they brag about paying employees 2-3x more than other lines so that the guests do not have to tip.  So it can be done.  

How do Virgin prices compare to Celebrity cruises?  Anyone do a comparison?

[hrhdhd]

2 hours ago, Cornhogio said:

We pre-paid our gratuities for this upcoming trip.  Based on what I've read in this thread, we're ok to assume that's good, but it would be a good idea to keep back a few hundred in singles, fives, and tens to keep the wheels of service well lubricated.

I don't know about that. We pay Celebrity's suggested gratuities and rarely tip in addition to that. "A few hundred" is excessive, IMHO.

Edited July 14, 2023 by hrhdhd

[Travel-and-See]

6 minutes ago, zitsky said:

How do Virgin prices compare to Celebrity cruises?  Anyone do a comparison?

Comparing Cruise Ship prices is difficult because each line has its own types of discounts. 

 

But let me look right now and see... (prices on both lines before taxes and fees) 

 

Virgin - 4 Night Key West and Bimini in November 2023 on Scarlet Lady. 

for Inside Cabin for 2 - $1188

for Balcony for 2 - $1520

(Cheapest Solo price is $998) 

These prices include basic Wi-Fi, all basic drinks including sodas, all on-board restaurants, and on-board gratuities plus a $300 per person drink credit to be used for any upcharge drinks (no restrictions. Coffee, Juice, Mocktails, Cocktails, expensive wines, whatever you want to spend it on as long as you can drink it). 

 

Celebrity - 4 Night Key West and Bahamas in November 2023 on Silhouette  

$656 for Inside Cabin for 2. 

$912 for Balcony for 2. 

(Cheapest Solo price is $694)

These are the "Cruise Only" prices.

 

Same cruise but with "All-Included" Inside Cabin for 2 - $1272.

Balcony for 2 - $1,716

That includes basic wi-fi, "Classic" beverage package, and on-board gratuities. 

[drakes2]

1 hour ago, hrhdhd said:

I don't know about that. We pay Celebrity's suggested gratuities and rarely tip in addition to that. "A few hundred" is excessive, IMHO.

Totally agree. I do the same. 

[Baggy178]

16 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Dude, you have made it very clear this is a personal financial decision.  It is your option so keep the money in your pocket if that is what you want.   I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with protecting the crew from greedy corporations.       

 

If that was the case I would be keeping our OBC as well as cancelling the pre-paid gratuities.

I may be a cad but I'm not a rotter old boy 😉

 

 

[NJLochness]

gratuity

noun

gra·tu·i·ty grə-ˈtü-ə-tē  

-ˈtyü-

 

plural gratuities

Synonyms of gratuity

: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service

especially  : TIP

added a gratuity for the server

[NJLochness]

Now for the bags when you get to port.should I weigh my bags and give 20% tip? So if it’s 100 pounds do they gets $20 tip?

 

[zitsky]

26 minutes ago, NJLochness said:

Now for the bags when you get to port.should I weigh my bags and give 20% tip? So if it’s 100 pounds do they gets $20 tip?

 

Maybe more?  😂

Edited July 15, 2023 by zitsky

[Baggy178]

24 minutes ago, NJLochness said:

Now for the bags when you get to port.should I weigh my bags and give 20% tip? So if it’s 100 pounds do they gets $20 tip?

 

 

We've only ever travelled with hand-luggage all over the world for the past 25 years or so. There's been a trail of disappointed porters in our wake as we declined their offers of carrying our rucksacks to room or cabin.

Tightwad tourism is the name of the game.

Fail to prepare, prepare to fail ...

 

 

[Baggy178]

15 hours ago, Travel-and-See said:

Comparing Cruise Ship prices is difficult because each line has its own types of discounts. 

 

But let me look right now and see... (prices on both lines before taxes and fees) 

 

Virgin - 4 Night Key West and Bimini in November 2023 on Scarlet Lady. 

for Inside Cabin for 2 - $1188

for Balcony for 2 - $1520

(Cheapest Solo price is $998) 

These prices include basic Wi-Fi, all basic drinks including sodas, all on-board restaurants, and on-board gratuities plus a $300 per person drink credit to be used for any upcharge drinks (no restrictions. Coffee, Juice, Mocktails, Cocktails, expensive wines, whatever you want to spend it on as long as you can drink it). 

 

Celebrity - 4 Night Key West and Bahamas in November 2023 on Silhouette  

$656 for Inside Cabin for 2. 

$912 for Balcony for 2. 

(Cheapest Solo price is $694)

These are the "Cruise Only" prices.

 

Same cruise but with "All-Included" Inside Cabin for 2 - $1272.

Balcony for 2 - $1,716

That includes basic wi-fi, "Classic" beverage package, and on-board gratuities. 

 

A couple of years ago we did a TA with P&O where tips were included plus a return flight from Barbados to the UK. It was about £100pp more expensive than the cruise we have booked on the Silhouette for Oct 2023.

 

 

[ldubs]

On 7/15/2023 at 6:04 AM, NJLochness said:

Now for the bags when you get to port.should I weigh my bags and give 20% tip? So if it’s 100 pounds do they gets $20 tip?

 

 

No, you should tip £20.  

[ldubs]

On 7/15/2023 at 5:42 AM, NJLochness said:

gratuity

noun

gra·tu·i·ty grə-ˈtü-ə-tē  

-ˈtyü-

 

plural gratuities

Synonyms of gratuity

: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service

especially  : TIP

added a gratuity for the server

 

I don't think anyone debates it is voluntary.  That is different than asking should I or shouldn't I on a public forum.  If opinions are not welcome or wanted, then the question shouldn't be asked.  

 

The initial question was if tipping on top of the auto-gratuity is expected.  That, of course, migrates to the evils of tipping and, IMO, some poppycock justifications for pulling tips.