Are pre-paid gratuities even worth it any more?

[RichYak]

38 minutes ago, Baggy178 said:

 

So you can understand why I object to 27% ...

No. I can't understand why you're talking percentages at all as it doesn't relate to standard gratuities. They are per diem, not per dollar spent.

[Baggy178]

18 minutes ago, RichYak said:

No. I can't understand why you're talking percentages at all as it doesn't relate to standard gratuities. They are per diem, not per dollar spent.

 

The service charge on drinks is 20% not a dollar rate.

If that is how bar staff receive their gratuities why shouldn't other staff who are meant to receive gratuities as part of their salary be paid in exactly the same way ?

Pre-paying gratuities for service good or bad that you haven't yet received is absurd.

Paying an extra 27% simply because Celebrity have magicked up a figure is even dafter.

 

[grandgeezer]

Prepaid gratuities are good if you are getting them from your travel agent. It helps a great deal if you don’t want the Always Included package.

[jean87510]

On 7/8/2023 at 7:21 PM, NantahalaCruiser said:

So you're familiar with the culture but disagree with it - and thus go your own way rather than adopting the culture of a foreign land.

 

Some Americans do the same when they visit other lands and are called "ugly Americans" - so I guess "ugly" must now be applied to you also - congratulations.

Actually that is not what an Ugly American is.  Loud, throwing money around and arrogant.  It's an offensive term to Americans and I will be the better person and not use the terms used by my native state for people coming to the Jersey shore from other countries.  

[jean87510]

6 hours ago, HS2BS said:

CNBC just had an article on tipping! 
we took two of our teen grandsons out for breakfast on Sunday, and when the I’ll came the tipping options were “18% 20% 22% other”. The bill came to a little over $50(always tip on the amount before tax), left a $9 tip - reasonable! Stopped for coffee at star**** and the checkout screen asked how much for the tip - totally unreasonable left $0. Person is only doing their job.

 

Hal

I saw that.  It's getting ridiculous now with tip shaming.  Next Dunkin Donuts will start asking me for a tip for the homeless guy out front.  

[zitsky]

5 minutes ago, jean87510 said:

I saw that.  It's getting ridiculous now with tip shaming.  Next Dunkin Donuts will start asking me for a tip for the homeless guy out front.  

Well he’s probably used their bathroom once or twice.  That deserves a $20 in the tip jar, right?

[Baggy178]

Interestingly I came across this from a 2019 blog when automatic gratuities stood at $14.50

 

' Daily service fee/gratuity – $14.50 per passenger is automatically added to onboard accounts each day. The breakdown is: Dining Services Team = $9.39 per person per day; Stateroom Attendant = $3.59 per person per day; Housekeeping Services = $1.51 per person per day. '

 

 

[ldubs]

7 hours ago, Baggy178 said:

 

Drinks carry a seperate 20% service charge - the suggested automatic gratuities would add a further 27% to our bill. They're not even consistent in their pricing.

 

 

 

 

Tipping debates aside, for an $18 daily auto gratuity to add 27% to the bill means you are getting some incredible cruise fares.   For that 11 day cruise you mentioned, you are in for less than $70 pp/day.  That is a pretty decent fare for that length cruise.      

[jean87510]

1 hour ago, zitsky said:

Well he’s probably used their bathroom once or twice.  That deserves a $20 in the tip jar, right?

probably

[ldubs]

8 hours ago, HS2BS said:

CNBC just had an article on tipping! 
we took two of our teen grandsons out for breakfast on Sunday, and when the I’ll came the tipping options were “18% 20% 22% other”. The bill came to a little over $50(always tip on the amount before tax), left a $9 tip - reasonable! Stopped for coffee at star**** and the checkout screen asked how much for the tip - totally unreasonable left $0. Person is only doing their job.

 

Hal

 

I am among those who think our tipping is getting out of hand.  Having been around it all my life, I'm used to tipping in restaurants and for certain other service related folk.   Other than odd change in the tip jar, I've pulled back on tipping for counter service and don't tip trades people.   

[Baggy178]

14 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I am among those who think our tipping is getting out of hand.  Having been around it all my life, I'm used to tipping in restaurants and for certain other service related folk.   Other than odd change in the tip jar, I've pulled back on tipping for counter service and don't tip trades people.   

 

 

I think what concerns me is the lack of clarity about it all.

Celebrity say here's the automatic gratuity payment we've decided. There's no detail on who gets what or how much. Why should Celebrity's figures be amongst the highest in the business - is that because they pay the lowest wages ? Is there an admin fee recovered by Celebrity ? What happens to the interest on the account where these gratuities go - do the staff get it or the company ?

I also dislike the fact that I can't individually rewarded a member of staff who has gone above and beyond the call of duty whereas those who are less forthcoming in the manners department get rewarded come what may.

What does surprise me is how supposedly rational people become insulting on here when someone has the temerity to question the whole system - I mean whereas in life would you willingly hand over $400 without knowing EXACTLY what it was for and where it's going.

Going toe-to-toe with someone on the customer service desk to use some of our OBC for gratuities WE decide are appropriate doesn't bother me in the slightest although I'm wondering whether to do it at the beginning of the cruise or towards the end - maybe a couple of days out.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Baggy178

[zitsky]

6 minutes ago, Baggy178 said:

 

 

I think what concerns me is the lack of clarity about it all.

Celebrity say here's the automatic gratuity payment we've decided. There's no detail on who gets what or how much. Why should Celebrity's figures be amongst the highest in the business - is that because they pay the lowest wages ? Is there an admin fee recovered by Celebrity ? What happens to the interest on the account where these gratuities go - do the staff get it or the company ?

I also dislike the fact that I can't individually rewarded a member of staff who has gone above and beyond the call of duty whereas those who are less forthcoming in the manners department get rewarded come what may.

What does surprise me is how supposedly rational people become insulting on here when someone has the temerity to question the whole system - I mean whereas in life would you willingly hand over $400 without knowing EXACTLY what it was for and where it's going.

Going toe-to-toe with someone on the customer service desk to use some of our OBC for gratuities WE decide are appropriate doesn't bother me in the slightest although I'm wondering whether to do it at the beginning of the cruise or towards the end - maybe a couple of days out.

Thanks.  Good example about handing over your money.

 

Cruise Critic doesn’t like anyone questioning the system.

 

I can tip 5 people but if I say I didn’t tip person 6 either I’m told my auto tips paid for them (educational) or I’m asked why wouldn’t I want to tip everyone? (I must be selfish.)

 

I would like to know why I can’t tip the people I want and not the people I DON’T want to tip.  If you have auto gratuities you have no control over who gets tips.

[Ex-Airbalancer]

52 minutes ago, Baggy178 said:

 

 

I think what concerns me is the lack of clarity about it all.

Celebrity say here's the automatic gratuity payment we've decided. There's no detail on who gets what or how much. Why should Celebrity's figures be amongst the highest in the business - is that because they pay the lowest wages ? Is there an admin fee recovered by Celebrity ? What happens to the interest on the account where these gratuities go - do the staff get it or the company ?

I also dislike the fact that I can't individually rewarded a member of staff who has gone above and beyond the call of duty whereas those who are less forthcoming in the manners department get rewarded come what may.

What does surprise me is how supposedly rational people become insulting on here when someone has the temerity to question the whole system - I mean whereas in life would you willingly hand over $400 without knowing EXACTLY what it was for and where it's going.

Going toe-to-toe with someone on the customer service desk to use some of our OBC for gratuities WE decide are appropriate doesn't bother me in the slightest although I'm wondering whether to do it at the beginning of the cruise or towards the end - maybe a couple of days out.

If Celebrity call it a hotel service charge , would that make you happy 🤔😁

[RichYak]

41 minutes ago, zitsky said:

I would like to know why I can’t tip the people I want and not the people I DON’T want to tip.  If you have auto gratuities you have no control over who gets tips.

It's just the way it is on Celebrity ships and there's really not much you can do about it. You have no control over most of your extra cash tips as well. When I hand my waiter extra cash, I know he'll only get a portion of it. It is what it is, I did my part. What happens next is out of my control.

[markeb]

1 hour ago, zitsky said:

I would like to know why I can’t tip the people I want and not the people I DON’T want to tip.  If you have auto gratuities you have no control over who gets tips.

 

You never have control. Cash, credit, auto. On the ship or on land. How tips are distributed is between the employee and employer. Most of the service industry uses mandatory tip pools. There will be a formula for distributing tips. Until recently in the US back of house personnel could not be in a mandatory tip pool. In some cases waiters were making substantially more money than the chefs due to tips. 
 

If there’s not a tip pool your primary wait staff generally “tip out” other wait staff, bussers, bartenders, etc. And have to keep track for taxes. But there’s almost never a case where the person you hand money to keeps it all. 

And not turning in your cash tips with a mandatory tip pool is absolutely grounds for dismissal!

 

15 minutes ago, RichYak said:

It's just the way it is on Celebrity ships and there's really not much you can do about it. You have no control over most of your extra cash tips as well. When I hand my waiter extra cash, I know he'll only get a portion of it. It is what it is, I did my part. What happens next is out of my control.

Exactly. 

[zitsky]

31 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

You never have control. Cash, credit, auto. On the ship or on land. How tips are distributed is between the employee and employer. Most of the service industry uses mandatory tip pools. There will be a formula for distributing tips. Until recently in the US back of house personnel could not be in a mandatory tip pool. In some cases waiters were making substantially more money than the chefs due to tips. 
 

If there’s not a tip pool your primary wait staff generally “tip out” other wait staff, bussers, bartenders, etc. And have to keep track for taxes. But there’s almost never a case where the person you hand money to keeps it all. 

And not turning in your cash tips with a mandatory tip pool is absolutely grounds for dismissal!

 

Exactly. 

Thanks.  It was kind of a rhetorical question.  
 

So how do YOU handle poor service from a crew member wherever they are?  My example was maitre’d only to have Cruise Critic tell me that he works really hard and I’m just a big meanie.

[RichYak]

1 hour ago, zitsky said:

Thanks.  It was kind of a rhetorical question.  
 

So how do YOU handle poor service from a crew member wherever they are?  My example was maitre’d only to have Cruise Critic tell me that he works really hard and I’m just a big meanie.

I would give poor reviews on a comment card or survey. I went back through the thread to see what poor service you had from your maitre'd, but you didn't mention it (at least I couldn't find it). What is it that they did? Was there an issue with your waiter?

[ldubs]

3 hours ago, Baggy178 said:

 

 

I think what concerns me is the lack of clarity about it all.

Celebrity say here's the automatic gratuity payment we've decided. There's no detail on who gets what or how much. Why should Celebrity's figures be amongst the highest in the business - is that because they pay the lowest wages ? Is there an admin fee recovered by Celebrity ? What happens to the interest on the account where these gratuities go - do the staff get it or the company ?

I also dislike the fact that I can't individually rewarded a member of staff who has gone above and beyond the call of duty whereas those who are less forthcoming in the manners department get rewarded come what may.

What does surprise me is how supposedly rational people become insulting on here when someone has the temerity to question the whole system - I mean whereas in life would you willingly hand over $400 without knowing EXACTLY what it was for and where it's going.

Going toe-to-toe with someone on the customer service desk to use some of our OBC for gratuities WE decide are appropriate doesn't bother me in the slightest although I'm wondering whether to do it at the beginning of the cruise or towards the end - maybe a couple of days out.

 

I understand the arguments you have been making to justify pulling the daily gratuities.    You have also indicated this is a financial decision for you.   Rather than rehash, I'll refer you back to post #156.  

 

A lot of folks would like cruise fares to include the daily gratuity.  I suspect there are some financial accounting concerns that make this more difficult than it sounds.  

[davekathy]

2 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

I understand the arguments you have been making to justify pulling the daily gratuities.    You have also indicated this is a financial decision for you.   Rather than rehash, I'll refer you back to post #156.  

 

A lot of folks would like cruise fares to include the daily gratuity.  I suspect there are some financial accounting concerns that make this more difficult than it sounds.  

AI does that for us. But as I've said before I don't concern myself with who and gets what. That's between Celebrity and their employees. 

[ldubs]

3 hours ago, zitsky said:

Thanks.  Good example about handing over your money.

 

Cruise Critic doesn’t like anyone questioning the system.

 

I can tip 5 people but if I say I didn’t tip person 6 either I’m told my auto tips paid for them (educational) or I’m asked why wouldn’t I want to tip everyone? (I must be selfish.)

 

I would like to know why I can’t tip the people I want and not the people I DON’T want to tip.  If you have auto gratuities you have no control over who gets tips.

 

Questioning the system and purposely avoiding the system to save money and impact crew pay are not the same thing.  I personally would like pricing to be inclusive of gratuities.  But until it is, I will follow the system in place.  

[zitsky]

2 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Questioning the system and purposely avoiding the system to save money and impact crew pay are not the same thing.  I personally would like pricing to be inclusive of gratuities.  But until it is, I will follow the system in place.  

I tip but it shouldn’t be to give someone a living wage.  It should be in ADDITION to a living wage.  It’s not my job to pay anyone’s employees.  I go to a coffee shop where they hand me an empty coffee cup and maybe a pastry.  Sometimes I get it.  And they ask for a tip.

[zitsky]

44 minutes ago, RichYak said:

I would give poor reviews on a comment card or survey. I went back through the thread to see what poor service you had from your maitre'd, but you didn't mention it (at least I couldn't find it). What is it that they did? Was there an issue with your waiter?

There was an issue with the maitre’d.  As I said, he visited many tables around us every night but us only once in 12 days.  I don’t want to speculate much further.  It wasn’t a specific problem.  It was lack of attention.

We had no complaints with the rest of the staff and tipped them extra.  Yes I get it.  We tipped the maitre’d.  We did not intend to.

 

It was only an inconvenience when the other employees kept asking for my autograph.  Apparently a lot of them are on Cruise Critic.

[ldubs]

27 minutes ago, zitsky said:

I tip but it shouldn’t be to give someone a living wage.  It should be in ADDITION to a living wage.  It’s not my job to pay anyone’s employees.  I go to a coffee shop where they hand me an empty coffee cup and maybe a pastry.  Sometimes I get it.  And they ask for a tip.

 

In most cases (in the land of the IRS) tips are included as part of wages.     Everyone who doesn't want to tip mentions a "living wage".  What is that on a cruise ship?  How much, if any, should existing pay be increased to achieve that?  

 

That aside, customers pay for salaries.  I think I am safe in saying it is how we are expected to pay that is the issue here.   Again, I understand you and many others do not like the system.  If enough protest to the cruise lines perhaps it will change.  Come up with a better system and I'm all ears.  Until then, agree with the system or not, I prefer to not enrich myself at the expense of cruise staff salaries.  Of course, what I just said might be unfair to those who pull the auto grats and make equivalent cash tips.  I suspect most who pull the auto grats are not doing that.   

 

PS: was that empty coffee cup half empty or, uh never mind.  😀

Edited July 11, 2023 by ldubs

[RichYak]

3 minutes ago, zitsky said:

There was an issue with the maitre’d.  As I said, he visited many tables around us every night but us only once in 12 days.  I don’t want to speculate much further.  It wasn’t a specific problem.  It was lack of attention.

Ok, I guess we just have different expectations from the maitre'd. I only care to see him if I have a problem. If his staff did their jobs perfectly, then so did he as far as I'm concerned. The same lack of attention you appear to view as poor performance gets a 10 out of 10 from me.

[zitsky]

2 minutes ago, RichYak said:

Ok, I guess we just have different expectations from the maitre'd. I only care to see him if I have a problem. If his staff did their jobs perfectly, then so did he as far as I'm concerned. The same lack of attention you appear to view as poor performance gets a 10 out of 10 from me.

I would have no disagreement with you if he stood behind the desk and only came out when their was a problem.  That is not what he did.