Short-ish connection, should we fly a day earlier?

[DCGuy64]

We are looking forward to our upcoming Oceania Nautica cruise in Japan, our first time with O. Maybe it's pre-vacation jitters, but I'm concerned about a potentially short connection. We fly from DC to Toronto at 9:45 am (ETA 11:15 am) and then to Tokyo (Narita) at 1:05 pm, and the carrier is Air Canada. The connection time is just under 2 hours, but the sticking point is that the DC-Toronto flight is often delayed by 30 minutes or more-3 days ago it arrived at 12:30! If it's delayed, it may mean missing our connecting flight. We are flying into Tokyo a day early (we fly two days before the cruise but lose a day getting there), but a missed connection would possibly mean having to wait another day and then arriving the day of the cruise. We are thinking of leaving an extra day early, but there are several downsides: a) the consolidator might charge us a penalty to change the outbound flight, b) we'd have to go through baggage claim, immigration, etc., once upon arrival in Toronto and again the next day, and c) we'd need to find a hotel and have additional food expenses + get to the airport early the next day.

People on Cruise Critic typically say to get to destinations as early as possible, so would others attempt to fly in an extra day early? It's unclear what remedy Air Canada would offer us in case our inbound flight were delayed. Would they wait for us? I don't know.

Edited March 23, 2023 by DCGuy64
fixed typo

[RPen63]

15 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

We are looking forward to our upcoming Oceania Nautica cruise in Japan, our first time with O. Maybe it's pre-vacation jitters, but I'm concerned about a potentially short connection. We fly from DC to Toronto at 9:45 am (ETA 11:15 am) and then to Tokyo (Narita) at 1:05 pm, and the carrier is Air Canada. The connection time is just under 2 hours, but the sticking point is that the DC-Toronto flight is often delayed by 30 minutes or more-3 days ago it arrived at 12:30! If it's delayed, it may mean missing our connecting flight. We are flying into Tokyo a day early (we fly two days before the cruise but lose a day getting there), but a missed connection would possibly mean having to wait another day and then arriving the day of the cruise. We are thinking of leaving an extra day early, but there are several downsides: a) the consolidator might charge us a penalty to change the outbound flight, b) we'd have to go through baggage claim, immigration, etc., once upon arrival in Toronto and again the next day, and c) we'd need to find a hotel and have additional food expenses + get to the airport early the next day.

People on Cruise Critic typically say to get to destinations as early as possible, so would others attempt to fly in an extra day early? It's unclear what remedy Air Canada would offer us in case our inbound flight were delayed. Would they wait for us? I don't know.

I avoid Pearson like the plague but it is difficult to do if you are travelling through Canada.  I recommend moving both flights a day early and then if you miss your Japan flight you have a good chance of arriving a day early.  I would not be surprised to see Air Canada hold your flight if a number of pax are connecting on the same flight but it is better to be safe than sorry.  
 

Pearson airport had a connection guide that may be helpful:  https://www.torontopearson.com/en/connections

 

 

[LHT28]

Looks like there are early flight  to YYZ or YUL  8:30 or 8:15   that would give some wiggle room

It may be worth moving the day of departure  if you can  to the day before

 

[DCGuy64]

34 minutes ago, RPen63 said:

I avoid Pearson like the plague but it is difficult to do if you are travelling through Canada.  I recommend moving both flights a day early and then if you miss your Japan flight you have a good chance of arriving a day early.  I would not be surprised to see Air Canada hold your flight if a number of pax are connecting on the same flight but it is better to be safe than sorry.  
 

Pearson airport had a connection guide that may be helpful:  https://www.torontopearson.com/en/connections

 

 

To make matters more confusing, the same flight we're booked on for the Toronto-Tokyo leg has actually been leaving at 2:30 pm recently vs. 1:05 pm for us. I wouldn't be as worried if it were the former, but our reservation still says 1:05. 🤷‍♂️ Despite the extra work involved, I too am thinking flying a day earlier would be better-but not at any cost. If they tell us we'd have to pay $1,000 to change our flight, then forget it.

[DCGuy64]

12 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

Looks like there are early flight  to YYZ or YUL  8:30 or 8:15   that would give some wiggle room

It may be worth moving the day of departure  if you can  to the day before

 

Yeah, that's what we're thinking. HOWEVER, and my initial post was already too long so I didn't mention this, but we can't fly out the day earlier any sooner than 6 pm-that day is Easter Sunday, April 9, and I sing professionally at a church. There's no way on earth I can skip church that morning, so we're looking at flights leaving at 6 or 8 pm that day.

[Flatbush Flyer]

50 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

We are looking forward to our upcoming Oceania Nautica cruise in Japan, our first time with O. Maybe it's pre-vacation jitters, but I'm concerned about a potentially short connection. We fly from DC to Toronto at 9:45 am (ETA 11:15 am) and then to Tokyo (Narita) at 1:05 pm, and the carrier is Air Canada. The connection time is just under 2 hours, but the sticking point is that the DC-Toronto flight is often delayed by 30 minutes or more-3 days ago it arrived at 12:30! If it's delayed, it may mean missing our connecting flight. We are flying into Tokyo a day early (we fly two days before the cruise but lose a day getting there), but a missed connection would possibly mean having to wait another day and then arriving the day of the cruise. We are thinking of leaving an extra day early, but there are several downsides: a) the consolidator might charge us a penalty to change the outbound flight, b) we'd have to go through baggage claim, immigration, etc., once upon arrival in Toronto and again the next day, and c) we'd need to find a hotel and have additional food expenses + get to the airport early the next day.

People on Cruise Critic typically say to get to destinations as early as possible, so would others attempt to fly in an extra day early? It's unclear what remedy Air Canada would offer us in case our inbound flight were delayed. Would they wait for us? I don't know.

Even though you were nasty when I recommended rereading the O notices about local Covid pretests, I’ll answer your question:

 

Regardless of where you’re connecting on an intercontinental routing, any savvy/experienced traveler will agree that a connection should never be less than 3 hours. Even that can be cutting it close since the combo of a delayed originating flight and overwhelming wait line for any required immigration/passport control can easily require 4+ hours (e.g., at an airport like FRA in summer, the line to get into the passport line can take more than an hour).

 

Also, choose one of your airline’s hubs for connects where there their alliance partners have flights as well - in case your connection gets cancelled and you need a ticket reassignment. This is easy to figure out using ITA Matrix on the web.

And, unless you are a higher end FF on that airline/alliance, don’t expect that (should you miss your connection because the originating flight), you’ll get out on the next flight or even the next day. Empty seats on “next flights” will always be auto-assigned to a carrier’s higher end FFs

Also for intercontinental flights, always arrive in the start port city at least two nights (we prefer three) prior to embarkation day. Why? All the above snafus plus possible luggage problems (even when you fly bizclass and have PRIORITY stickers).

 

Bottom line: Don’t be pennywise and pound foolish.

And don’t forget to check every govt. level requirement regarding Covid testing -regardless of what the cruise line says or doesn’t say.

 

[LHT28]

15 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Yeah, that's what we're thinking. HOWEVER, and my initial post was already too long so I didn't mention this, but we can't fly out the day earlier any sooner than 6 pm-that day is Easter Sunday, April 9, and I sing professionally at a church. There's no way on earth I can skip church that morning, so we're looking at flights leaving at 6 or 8 pm that day.

What date are your flights now?

April 9th or 10th?

 On the  10th there is  an 8;38am out of IAD  connecting in YUL   with almost 3 hr layover

so if the first leg is late you will still make the flight to Narita

But costs to change is the big issue  at this late date

[DCGuy64]

6 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

What date are your flights now?

April 9th or 10th?

Currently April 10th outbound, arriving in Tokyo April 11th. Cruise departs April 12. EDIT: I saw your additional info, yes I am aware of that flight through YUL, the issue with that is it's ALSO often delayed and only gets to Toronto (scheduled) about 1/2 hour before our current flight does (if it's the same one I'm thinking). Our TA booked this flight for us and I kind of assumed that Air Canada would not put us on flights so close together that we might miss one. Anyway, I guess we'll wait and see what they say.

Edited March 23, 2023 by DCGuy64

[LHT28]

2 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Currently April 10th outbound, arriving in Tokyo April 11th. Cruise departs April 12.

just looked at the night before   leave at 2200  but then you have 13 hr layover  in YYZ

 I would try the 8;30 am flight on the 10th   unless you want to spent  extra time in Toronto airport area

JMO

 Enjoy the cruise

[DCGuy64]

14 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

just looked at the night before   leave at 2200  but then you have 13 hr layover  in YYZ

 I would try the 8;30 am flight on the 10th   unless you want to spent  extra time in Toronto airport area

JMO

 Enjoy the cruise

Thanks so much, I've enjoyed reading your posts on Oceania, they've been very helpful.

[Harters]

Faced with a similar dilemma for a cruise we had planned last year *, we opted to go a day early. Apart from the risks of delays with a "same day" flight, it meant an extremely early start from home. Extra cost (mainly the overnight hotel at LHR) was worth it as a "no stress" solution.

[jennybenny]

Count me in as a believer in going early, especially with a short connection. I don't know what happens in immigration in Canada, it hasn't been a layover for me, but when I travel to Europe, I always give myself at least two+ hours in Paris or Amsterdam on a layover. There are tighter connections, but they may not get you home that day.  

[DCGuy64]

3 minutes ago, Harters said:

Faced with a similar dilemma for a cruise we had planned last year *, we opted to go a day early. Apart from the risks of delays with a "same day" flight, it meant an extremely early start from home. Extra cost (mainly the overnight hotel at LHR) was worth it as a "no stress" solution.

Thanks for this. We're hoping we can find a suitable solution. On the bright side of things, the flight we're booked on did arrive on time today in Toronto, so maybe there's no issue. All things being equal, I'd like to arrive early, which is why I planned for us to arrive in Tokyo a day early. Little did I know that even that might not be enough.

[DCGuy64]

3 minutes ago, jennybenny said:

Count me in as a believer in going early, especially with a short connection. I don't know what happens in immigration in Canada, it hasn't been a layover for me, but when I travel to Europe, I always give myself at least two+ hours in Paris or Amsterdam on a layover. There are tighter connections, but they may not get you home that day.  

Same here, however I can say that having booked many, many flights from the US to Europe with a layover, including for cruises, I might add, we've never missed a flight connection, but this is when using the same airline for each flight. That's why I'm a little surprised that Air Canada booked me this way, unless they're confident about the connection time.

[jennybenny]

9 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Same here, however I can say that having booked many, many flights from the US to Europe with a layover, including for cruises, I might add, we've never missed a flight connection, but this is when using the same airline for each flight. That's why I'm a little surprised that Air Canada booked me this way, unless they're confident about the connection time.

I travel for work, sometimes the airlines make really short connections. The cost to put you on the next flight is worth the potential miss on the connection. Sometimes they make it and others they don't. 

[DCGuy64]

24 minutes ago, jennybenny said:

I travel for work, sometimes the airlines make really short connections. The cost to put you on the next flight is worth the potential miss on the connection. Sometimes they make it and others they don't. 

Thank you very much. One thing that remains a mystery is what might happen (I know this is only hypothetical at this point) if we were delayed and AC didn't wait for us. Of course, we do have insurance that covers us for flight delays, and I would guess (again hypothetically) that Oceania would allow us to catch up to the ship the next day.

[Flatbush Flyer]

3 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

Thanks for this information, @Flatbush Flyer!

Understood, thank you.

One more item:

No matter what your cruise “boarding pass” (or other cruise line correspondence) says, always check with the local port authority regarding your ship’s location within 24 hrs of embarkation.

Ships can be moved for all sorts of reasons to a berth on the next pier or even in the next town (in major world ports).

[DCGuy64]

4 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

One more item:

No matter what your cruise “boarding pass” (or other cruise line correspondence) says, always check with the local port authority regarding your ship’s location within 24 hrs of embarkation.

Ships can be moved for all sorts of reasons to a berth on the next pier or even in the next town (in major world ports).

Thank you, @Flatbush Flyer, that's a great point. We'll make sure to do that.

[LHT28]

2 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

Same here, however I can say that having booked many, many flights from the US to Europe with a layover, including for cruises, I might add, we've never missed a flight connection, but this is when using the same airline for each flight. That's why I'm a little surprised that Air Canada booked me this way, unless they're confident about the connection time.

Are you not using A C for both flight  all on one ticket ?

Did you  input your flights in the  connections link posted above

If your flight is ontime you should be OK  no need to change terminals

You can also fill out your forms ahead of time  to save time (hopefully)

https://www.torontopearson.com/en/connections/customs-immigration

[DCGuy64]

1 hour ago, LHT28 said:

Are you not using A C for both flight  all on one ticket ?

Did you  input your flights in the  connections link posted above

If your flight is ontime you should be OK  no need to change terminals

You can also fill out your forms ahead of time  to save time (hopefully)

https://www.torontopearson.com/en/connections/customs-immigration

Thank you, yes both flights are on Air Canada, all on one ticket. I used that connections website the other day. Since we are flying internationally into Canada and again to Japan, it appears we don't need to go through customs and immigration, which will save time. By the way, I also received an email today from the travel agency who booked the cruise for us, apparently the US passengers who embarked today in Tokyo on the same ship had no issues with Covid requirements, so that's good news.

[WayneLaR]

Take it from a Canadian that has connected through YYZ too many times to count.  You are playing with fire with that tight a connection (especially in this day and age) on an intercontinental flight through YYZ.  One hiccup in DC or YYZ and you are likely done.

 

YYZ has been named the worst airport in the world for a reason.

[DCGuy64]

15 hours ago, WayneLaR said:

Take it from a Canadian that has connected through YYZ too many times to count.  You are playing with fire with that tight a connection (especially in this day and age) on an intercontinental flight through YYZ.  One hiccup in DC or YYZ and you are likely done.

 

YYZ has been named the worst airport in the world for a reason.

Thanks for the comments. All I can say is that, if I had to do it over again, I would prefer a longer connection. In 30+ years of traveling overseas, I have never had to connect through a Canadian airport. I've only ever flown to Canada directly (to Montreal and Quebec City), and I've never flown to Toronto. Anyway, I figure if AC is selling this itinerary, they must be able to get me there-our TA assured me as much. FWIW I spoke to our travel agent yesterday. The cost of changing flights is prohibitive (literally more $$ than the tickets cost in the first place, and we're not talking chump change, either-these are business class tickets that cost $11,000 for the two of us, and changing would cost MORE than that). So we're not making any changes. We will just go with the itinerary as planned. If we are delayed, so be it. But in the future, I would say that, all things being equal, I'd rather have more time, especially when flights have a poor on-time performance record. Thanks again for weighing in, we are so excited about this trip and I'm not going to waste any more negative energy worrying about things like this that I can't change.

[LHT28]

1 hour ago, DCGuy64 said:

 We will just go with the itinerary as planned. If we are delayed, so be it. But in the future, I would say that, all things being equal, I'd rather have more time, especially when flights have a poor on-time performance record. Thanks again for weighing in, we are so excited about this trip and I'm not going to waste any more negative energy worrying about things like this that I can't change.

Please let us know how it goes

I have never connect in Toronto before either  but this year  we will  as YYZ is no longer our destination

 

Enjoy the cruise

[DCGuy64]

20 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

Please let us know how it goes

I have never connect in Toronto before either  but this year  we will  as YYZ is no longer our destination

 

Enjoy the cruise

Thank you, @LHT28! We will. My wife calls this cruise "the trip of a lifetime." 😊

[m1k2s3]

18 hours ago, WayneLaR said:

Take it from a Canadian that has connected through YYZ too many times to count.  You are playing with fire with that tight a connection (especially in this day and age) on an intercontinental flight through YYZ.  One hiccup in DC or YYZ and you are likely done.

 

YYZ has been named the worst airport in the world for a reason.

I think that’s a little unfair. There are lots of airports experiencing delays and there are lots of reasons flights get delayed, the weather ( and any airport in Canada during the winter months have delays), mechanical issues for example that affect travel, not to mention the day and time of travel create congestion at many airports. I live in Toronto so I use YYZ and have travelled through YYZ several times in the last couple of months and never had any issues departing - but coming back has at times been challenging.