How do people afford $20,000 suites?

[topnole]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

 

 I don't think it was that the odds are different. It was that people at those tables play smarter.  

When they tweak the rules they do it to change the odds.  So if they limit the number of times you can split aces, for example, or adjust the soft 17 hit rule, they can bend the odds more in their favor.  
 

When the rules change as such, it doesn’t matter if you make every decision by the book (smart play as you call it) because the long run odds will be less favorable relative to more odds friendly tables.   The very best odds have players losing in the long run in BJ.  When the tweak them it gets worse for any player including those that play smart.  It doesn’t matter how “smart” you play if the odds move from 49/51 to 45/55.  The house will gain a 4% additional advantage in that scenario which means even the best players will lose even more.  And the more you bet per hand, the more you will lose per hand in the long run.  
 

The amount of people playing $100+ tables with less than desirable odds is what surprises me.   I’m not surprised at all that one or two families (out of thousands) pay 20k for a suite.  

Edited April 5, 2023 by topnole

[ldubs]

15 minutes ago, topnole said:

When they tweak the rules they do it to change the odds.  So if they limit the number of times you can split aces, for example, or adjust the soft 17 hit rule, they can bend the odds more in their favor.  
 

When the rules change as such, it doesn’t matter if you make every decision by the book (smart play as you call it) because the long run odds will be less favorable relative to more odds friendly tables.   The very best odds have players losing in the long run in BJ.  When the tweak them it gets worse for any player including those that play smart.  It doesn’t matter how “smart” you play if the odds move from 49/51 to 45/55.  The house will gain a 4% additional advantage in that scenario which means even the best players will lose even more.  And the more you bet per hand, the more you will lose per hand in the long run.  
 

The amount of people playing $100+ tables with less than desirable odds is what surprises me.   I’m not surprised at all that one or two families (out of thousands) pay 20k for a suite.  

 

Yes, but when they tweak the rules, who might do better, smart players or dumb players.  

 

When I used to attend casinos I never focused much on BJ.  I liked craps up until when the table minimums became too high.  Then it went from fun money to I worked to hard to lose this money.  😀 

[topnole]

3 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Yes, but when they tweak the rules, who might do better, smart players or dumb players.  

 

When I used to attend casinos I never focused much on BJ.  I liked craps up until when the table minimums became too high.  Then it went from fun money to I worked to hard to lose this money.  😀 

When they tweak the rules in their favor, no one is going to do better.   That’s the point.  They are changing the long term odds more in their favor.  So even a player making the statistically correct decision every single time will still do worse long term because of the rule changes.  That’s the point of my original statement.  
 

So again, the amount of people betting 100-500 a hand when the odds aren’t good is more surprising to me than a one a couple folks a cruise spending 20k on a cruise.  This doesn’t even count the number of people betting 1-10k a hand.  And these aren’t even the Whales as they call them.   There is an insane amount of money exchanged in Vegas.  Regular folks run up thousands in bar tabs all the time.  20K for a week in an all inclusive cabin is absolutely nothing relative to the excess displayed all over Vegas all the time.  I enjoy Vegas when I visit, but boy is that a weird place and I’m always glad when I get home.  

[East Bay Skiers]

3 hours ago, HBE4 said:

 

I've rented a car & drove to the Grand Canyon from Vegas as a day trip. A very long day trip but it's doable.

When we went to Vegas a few years back went on a helicopter excursion to the Grand Canyon.  Loved it!

[A&L_Ont]

2 hours ago, grandgeezer said:

This isn’t a euphemism, look up the word and try again.

You have totally missed an inside joke from a page or two before. I’m not talking about the actual Grand Canyon.  Like Mountains can be one thing, the Grand Canyon can be another. 😉

Edited April 5, 2023 by A&L_Ont

[reallyitsmema]

9 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

You have totally missed an inside joke from a page or two before. I’m not talking about the actual Grand Canyon.  Like Mountains can be one thing, the Grand Canyon can be another. 😉

 

Our posts are gone but the picture remains. 😇

[PompeySailor]

14 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

You have totally missed an inside joke from a page or two before. I’m not talking about the actual Grand Canyon.  Like Mountains can be one thing, the Grand Canyon can be another. 😉

I normally miss the free punch when I turn up to the party late 😉

Edited April 5, 2023 by PompeySailor

[PompeySailor]

This thread just needs a dress code addition and I think we have covered all there is to know about cruising. 

[orville99]

4 hours ago, HBE4 said:

In all fairness to the OP, while the title mentions a $20,000 suite, post #1 puts the price range in the $15,000-$20,000 range.

 

Just wondering if at $15,000 if people would change their minds? Just a simple yay or nay, no need to delve into the nitty gritty details of HOW or WHY.😉

In a word - no.

[ldubs]

45 minutes ago, topnole said:

When they tweak the rules in their favor, no one is going to do better.   That’s the point.  They are changing the long term odds more in their favor.  So even a player making the statistically correct decision every single time will still do worse long term because of the rule changes.  That’s the point of my original statement.  
 

So again, the amount of people betting 100-500 a hand when the odds aren’t good is more surprising to me than a one a couple folks a cruise spending 20k on a cruise.  This doesn’t even count the number of people betting 1-10k a hand.  And these aren’t even the Whales as they call them.   There is an insane amount of money exchanged in Vegas.  Regular folks run up thousands in bar tabs all the time.  20K for a week in an all inclusive cabin is absolutely nothing relative to the excess displayed all over Vegas all the time.  I enjoy Vegas when I visit, but boy is that a weird place and I’m always glad when I get home.  

 

I understand that no one is going to beat the house.  What I meant is the smart players will likely contribute less than the no so smart ones.   But still, I really do agree with what you are saying.   

 

The whales -- they are so outside my league I can't even imagine putting that much out there. Especially as you say when the odds are against them.  This should be telling.  The last time I did any gambling in LV, it was at a $1.00 craps table.  😀  Saying Las Vegas is weird is pretty factual.   Last time we were there it was walking around with a side trip to Grand Canyon.  We happened to be their on halloween, so the weirdness factor was in high gear.   

[acuprulez]

I don't have any major expenses besides a mortgage, I eat cheap and don't go out much.

So on the rare occasion I can get all of the people I care about together at the same time, I want that experience to be as seamless and awesome as possible, so dropping for star class isn't a question.

 

I also think there's an element of "once you have experienced it you don't want to go back".

[PompeySailor]

EUREKA 💡 

 

The WHYi it is worth it in me and HOW and WHY people pay $6k less for a suite

 

$14k For a family of 4 in Star Class 

Let’s say SLS on Harmony 7 night 

(those that know, that’s a fair price)

That is $500 per person per night 

 

At todays rates for Harmony 

Grats included $18.50 per person per day for all 4 ($518.00)

Wifi included $19.99 x 4 x 7 $559.72

All adult drinks included $77.99 + Tax x2 $184 per day

$1288.00 for 2 adults 

All kids drinks included $27.99 + Tax x2

$66.00 per day

$462.00 Total for 2 kids 

All speciality dining included x4 $235.99 + Tax x4 $268.47

$1073.87 Total for all 4

 

Summary

$14000.00 deduct included 

• $1073.87
• $1288.00
• $559.72
• $518.00
• $462.00
• PRICE OF SUITE AND ALL THE OTHER PERKS not listed =$10,098.41 
• Works out at $360 per person per night

 

 

Let’s say a Balcony on Harmony 7 nights

$5356.96 Mid ship Balcony

A La carte purchases

NO Grats inc $16 x 4 x 7 = $448.00

NO WIFI inc $559.72

NO drink package inc2 adults$1288.00

NO drink package inc 2 kids $462.00

NO speciality dining included $1073.87

Total of buying A La carte $3901.59

+ $5356.96

TOTAL = $9258.55

$330.00 per person per night 

 

 

So there you have it, this is how some people can afford $30 per person per day more than all the folk that sail in a balcony Cabin

 

This is the logic and math we apply when booking a suite or star class 

I’m sure others factor in all the included as well and the price difference sometimes is close.

(Apply same logic to YC on MSC and that’s why we sail more now on MSC)

 

It’s just $30 per day per person from a balcony to a Star Loft Suite 

 

I know it’s not exactly apples to apples 🍎 🍏 and some figures rounded up

 But the raw math of what is included against what isn’t holds pretty well at todays published costs.

 

But I say, how do people afford to spend $9000 on a balcony without any perks 

 

Also in star class you can dress less formal 😉 and no Lines or Queues at the MDR or buffet or anywhere 

 

And where your T-shirt untucked in the SL

[topnole]

6 minutes ago, PompeySailor said:

EUREKA 💡 

 

The WHYi it is worth it in me and HOW and WHY people pay $6k less for a suite

 

$14k For a family of 4 in Star Class 

Let’s say SLS on Harmony 7 night 

(those that know, that’s a fair price)

That is $500 per person per night 

 

At todays rates for Harmony 

Grats included $18.50 per person per day for all 4 ($518.00)

Wifi included $19.99 x 4 x 7 $559.72

All adult drinks included $77.99 + Tax x2 $184 per day

$1288.00 for 2 adults 

All kids drinks included $27.99 + Tax x2

$66.00 per day

$462.00 Total for 2 kids 

All speciality dining included x4 $235.99 + Tax x4 $268.47

$1073.87 Total for all 4

 

Summary

$14000.00 deduct included 

• $1073.87
• $1288.00
• $559.72
• $518.00
• $462.00
• PRICE OF SUITE AND ALL THE OTHER PERKS not listed =$10,098.41 
• Works out at $360 per person per night

 

 

Let’s say a Balcony on Harmony 7 nights

$5356.96 Mid ship Balcony

A La carte purchases

NO Grats inc $16 x 4 x 7 = $448.00

NO WIFI inc $559.72

NO drink package inc2 adults$1288.00

NO drink package inc 2 kids $462.00

NO speciality dining included $1073.87

Total of buying A La carte $3901.59

+ $5356.96

TOTAL = $9258.55

$330.00 per person per night 

 

 

So there you have it, this is how some people can afford $30 per person per day more than all the folk that sail in a balcony Cabin

 

This is the logic and math we apply when booking a suite or star class 

I’m sure others factor in all the included as well and the price difference sometimes is close.

(Apply same logic to YC on MSC and that’s why we sail more now on MSC)

 

It’s just $30 per day per person from a balcony to a Star Loft Suite 

 

I know it’s not exactly apples to apples 🍎 🍏 and some figures rounded up

 But the raw math of what is included against what isn’t holds pretty well at todays published costs.

 

But I say, how do people afford to spend $9000 on a balcony without any perks 

 

Also in star class you can dress less formal 😉 and no Lines or Queues at the MDR or buffet or anywhere 

 

And where your T-shirt untucked in the SL

A few caveats to this, and I am one who has done Star class several time because it made financial sense. 
 

Even when my kids were Star class they weren’t getting all those sugary beverages daily.  Point being, I would never buy them a beverage package.   I also would never buy them a wifi package. And no specialty dining either.   So yes, if you’d buy all that for your kids either way, the math can close the gap a lot.   But if you wouldn’t (and I suspect most wouldn’t buy all of that) the gap is larger.  You’ve also ignored the tip for the genie which for most is probably a solid $700-2k depending for a a family of 4.  I still agree I can make a lot of sense to get one when the price is in a good range.  

[A&L_Ont]

1 hour ago, East Bay Skiers said:

When we went to Vegas a few years back went on a helicopter excursion to the Grand Canyon.  Loved it!

It’s beautiful isn’t it. 

 

1 hour ago, reallyitsmema said:

 

Our posts are gone but the picture remains. 😇

LOLOL

 

1 hour ago, PompeySailor said:

I normally miss the free punch when I turn up to the party late 😉

The punch is still there, you just need to find the bowl. 

Edited April 5, 2023 by A&L_Ont

[PompeySailor]

1 minute ago, topnole said:

A few caveats to this, and I am one who has done Star class several time because it made financial sense. 
 

Even when my kids were Star class they weren’t getting all those sugary beverages daily.  Point being, I would never buy them a beverage package.   I also would never buy them a wifi package. And no specialty dining either.   So yes, if you’d buy all that for your kids either way, the math can close the gap a lot.   But if you wouldn’t (and I suspect most wouldn’t buy all of that) the gap is larger.  You’ve also ignored the tip for the genie which for most is probably a solid $700-2k depending for a a family of 4.  I still agree I can make a lot of sense to get one when the price is in a good range.  

Agreed 

it can be manipulated and items  removed etc 

 

For the most part a generalization of how it can be compared rather than a solid 

 

Trying to highlight the logic when not included and if you wanted it then it makes sense to go AI, sometimes 

[topnole]

1 minute ago, PompeySailor said:

Agreed 

it can be manipulated and items  removed etc 

 

For the most part a generalization of how it can be compared rather than a solid 

 

Trying to highlight the logic when not included and if you wanted it then it makes sense to go AI, sometimes 

Maybe it’s smarter to make everyone think otherwise.  Supply is very limited.  😂😂

[PompeySailor]

1 minute ago, PompeySailor said:

Agreed 

it can be manipulated and items  removed etc 

 

For the most part a generalization of how it can be compared rather than a solid 

 

Trying to highlight the logic when not included and if you wanted it then it makes sense to go AI, sometimes 

And to add

pretty much why we are happy with SKY class as the math suits us

[Denversail]

20 minutes ago, PompeySailor said:

EUREKA 💡 

 

The WHYi it is worth it in me and HOW and WHY people pay $6k less for a suite

 

$14k For a family of 4 in Star Class 

Let’s say SLS on Harmony 7 night 

(those that know, that’s a fair price)

That is $500 per person per night 

 

At todays rates for Harmony 

Grats included $18.50 per person per day for all 4 ($518.00)

Wifi included $19.99 x 4 x 7 $559.72

All adult drinks included $77.99 + Tax x2 $184 per day

$1288.00 for 2 adults 

All kids drinks included $27.99 + Tax x2

$66.00 per day

$462.00 Total for 2 kids 

All speciality dining included x4 $235.99 + Tax x4 $268.47

$1073.87 Total for all 4

 

Summary

$14000.00 deduct included 

• $1073.87
• $1288.00
• $559.72
• $518.00
• $462.00
• PRICE OF SUITE AND ALL THE OTHER PERKS not listed =$10,098.41 
• Works out at $360 per person per night

 

 

Let’s say a Balcony on Harmony 7 nights

$5356.96 Mid ship Balcony

A La carte purchases

NO Grats inc $16 x 4 x 7 = $448.00

NO WIFI inc $559.72

NO drink package inc2 adults$1288.00

NO drink package inc 2 kids $462.00

NO speciality dining included $1073.87

Total of buying A La carte $3901.59

+ $5356.96

TOTAL = $9258.55

$330.00 per person per night 

 

 

So there you have it, this is how some people can afford $30 per person per day more than all the folk that sail in a balcony Cabin

 

This is the logic and math we apply when booking a suite or star class 

I’m sure others factor in all the included as well and the price difference sometimes is close.

(Apply same logic to YC on MSC and that’s why we sail more now on MSC)

 

It’s just $30 per day per person from a balcony to a Star Loft Suite 

 

I know it’s not exactly apples to apples 🍎 🍏 and some figures rounded up

 But the raw math of what is included against what isn’t holds pretty well at todays published costs.

 

But I say, how do people afford to spend $9000 on a balcony without any perks 

 

Also in star class you can dress less formal 😉 and no Lines or Queues at the MDR or buffet or anywhere 

 

And where your T-shirt untucked in the SL

You subtract the extras from the suite and then add them into the balcony to compare. You are really paying 4 or 5k more for the suite.

[topnole]

Just now, PompeySailor said:

And to add

pretty much why we are happy with SKY class as the math suits us

Agree.  Our last three cruises were star, sky and sky.   Three different oasis class ships.  The sky class trips were both fantastic and arguably better trips than the star class trip.  

[HBE4]

1 hour ago, PompeySailor said:

This thread just needs a dress code addition and I think we have covered all there is to know about cruising. 

 

If I book a $20,000 suite, do I need to wear a $1,000 Brook Brother suit on "Try and Dress your Best" night? Or will my "vintage" $99 Sears suit (sale price, regularly $129) be okay?

 

[PompeySailor]

2 minutes ago, Denversail said:

You subtract the extras from the suite and then add them into the balcony to compare. You are really paying 4 or 5k more for the suite.

 Correct 

[PompeySailor]

1 minute ago, topnole said:

Agree.  Our last three cruises were star, sky and sky.   Three different oasis class ships.  The sky class trips were both fantastic and arguably better trips than the star class trip.  

Likewise for us too

[Denversail]

Just now, PompeySailor said:

 Correct 

That isn’t $30 a day.

[HBE4]

24 minutes ago, PompeySailor said:

EUREKA 💡 

 

The WHYi it is worth it in me and HOW and WHY people pay $6k less for a suite

 

$14k For a family of 4 in Star Class 

Let’s say SLS on Harmony 7 night 

(those that know, that’s a fair price)

That is $500 per person per night 

 

At todays rates for Harmony 

Grats included $18.50 per person per day for all 4 ($518.00)

Wifi included $19.99 x 4 x 7 $559.72

All adult drinks included $77.99 + Tax x2 $184 per day

$1288.00 for 2 adults 

All kids drinks included $27.99 + Tax x2

$66.00 per day

$462.00 Total for 2 kids 

All speciality dining included x4 $235.99 + Tax x4 $268.47

$1073.87 Total for all 4

 

Summary

$14000.00 deduct included 

• $1073.87
• $1288.00
• $559.72
• $518.00
• $462.00
• PRICE OF SUITE AND ALL THE OTHER PERKS not listed =$10,098.41 
• Works out at $360 per person per night

 

 

Let’s say a Balcony on Harmony 7 nights

$5356.96 Mid ship Balcony

A La carte purchases

NO Grats inc $16 x 4 x 7 = $448.00

NO WIFI inc $559.72

NO drink package inc2 adults$1288.00

NO drink package inc 2 kids $462.00

NO speciality dining included $1073.87

Total of buying A La carte $3901.59

+ $5356.96

TOTAL = $9258.55

$330.00 per person per night 

 

 

So there you have it, this is how some people can afford $30 per person per day more than all the folk that sail in a balcony Cabin

 

This is the logic and math we apply when booking a suite or star class 

I’m sure others factor in all the included as well and the price difference sometimes is close.

(Apply same logic to YC on MSC and that’s why we sail more now on MSC)

 

It’s just $30 per day per person from a balcony to a Star Loft Suite 

 

I know it’s not exactly apples to apples 🍎 🍏 and some figures rounded up

 But the raw math of what is included against what isn’t holds pretty well at todays published costs.

 

But I say, how do people afford to spend $9000 on a balcony without any perks 

 

Also in star class you can dress less formal 😉 and no Lines or Queues at the MDR or buffet or anywhere 

 

And where your T-shirt untucked in the SL

 

Wow, I can't afford to not be in a $15,000 suite. 😉

 

[PompeySailor]

1 minute ago, HBE4 said:

 

If I book a $20,000 suite, do I need to wear a $1,000 Brook Brother suit on "Try and Dress your Best" night? Or will my "vintage" $99 Sears suit (sale price, regularly $129) be okay?

 

I wear an untucked T-shirt and Golf shorts 

As I will be in 150CP or Chops on formal night