Port of Livorno regulations - Only beer and wine allowed????

[altriperin]

11 hours ago, macattack1111 said:

My question to you professional lurkers...are passengers being charged Tax..vat or whatever you want to call it when purchasing a drink with or without a drinks package in Spanish ports.

Today we returned from the Epic. We had to pay 10% 'VAT'  for all drinks all the time. In italien, spanish and french ports and also on sea.

[ollienbertsmum]

2 minutes ago, altriperin said:

Today we returned from the Epic. We had to pay 10% 'VAT'  for all drinks all the time. In italien, spanish and french ports and also on sea.

Thanks for this information.  Just to clarify, did you have a package?  I have been on the Epic numerous times (with a drink package) from about 2012 to 2018 same route, but never had to pay any VAT.  I wonder why the change 

[ollienbertsmum]

Just now, ollienbertsmum said:

Thanks for this information.  Just to clarify, did you have a package?  I have been on the Epic numerous times (with a drink package) from about 2012 to 2018 same route, but never had to pay any VAT.  I wonder why the change 

just re read Keith Jenner’s previous post.  So maybe in the old days we were not charged.

[The Traveling Man]

2 minutes ago, altriperin said:

Today we returned from the Epic. We had to pay 10% 'VAT'  for all drinks all the time. In italien, spanish and french ports and also on sea.

We encountered this tax several years ago during a Mediterranean cruise on the Star.  The original itinerary included a port stop in Turkey, but that was changed after final payment to become an all EU voyage.  When passengers complained about being charged taxes even on sea days, the Captain informed us that EU laws required NCL to collect the tax throughout the cruise because we never venture outside of the EU.  That may be the circumstance on some recent NCL cruises.

[altriperin]

8 minutes ago, ollienbertsmum said:

Thanks for this information.  Just to clarify, did you have a package?  I have been on the Epic numerous times (with a drink package) from about 2012 to 2018 same route, but never had to pay any VAT.  I wonder why the change 

Yes, we had the free at sea package. 

[ollienbertsmum]

14 minutes ago, altriperin said:

Yes, we had the free at sea package. 

And I suppose the next question has to be ‘did you know before your cruise that you would be paying the tax.  I have no issues with paying tax when due, but had ncl let passengers know up front 

[pc_load_letter]

I wonder if NCL has been hit by this because of their Free at Sea. The drinks were essentially comp'd so I wonder if these countries wised up so to speak and wanted to eliminate the NCL loophole.

[macattack1111]

Does this mean....if you do for example a 10 day cruise that does not leave the EU at all in the 10 days you will pay VAT for every single drink you have even though you have paid £199 for the so called Free At Sea. BUT if during your 10 day cruise you go to Morocco for one day which is outside the EU then these Taxes would not be collected...I hope somebody has the answer to this question.

[KeithJenner]

28 minutes ago, macattack1111 said:

Does this mean....if you do for example a 10 day cruise that does not leave the EU at all in the 10 days you will pay VAT for every single drink you have even though you have paid £199 for the so called Free At Sea. BUT if during your 10 day cruise you go to Morocco for one day which is outside the EU then these Taxes would not be collected...I hope somebody has the answer to this question.

Basically, yes that could well be what happens. On the second cruise it is very possible that you will be charged tax whilst in port, but if ships don't leave the EU then the tax will likely be charged for the entire time.

[gregluk]

Are the drink gratuities in the free at sea package that you prepay not technically optional or should be?

 

The other gratuities that you can prepay before the cruise they are optional and you can remove and change them at the end of the cruise if you wish

 

So what's different between the drink package gratuities and the gratuities you pay at the end or can prepay, and shouldn't both follow the same rules?

Edited May 25, 2023 by gregluk
..

[schmoopie17]

Charging tax at sea???? Since when?? And which country collects the tax in the middle of the sea?

 

We were on a TA last November on the Escape out of Rome with a stop in Livorno, four stops in Spain, one in France and three in Portugal. The only place we were charged tax on drinks was in the four Spain ports (yes, we had the drink package and yes, they had signs up at the bars informing us of the tax in Spain). Once we escaped the Spain waters, no tax was charged in any other port or at sea.

Edited May 25, 2023 by schmoopie17

[KeithJenner]

27 minutes ago, schmoopie17 said:

Charging tax at sea???? Since when?? And which country collects the tax in the middle of the sea?

 

We were on a TA last November on the Escape out of Rome with a stop in Livorno, four stops in Spain, one in France and three in Portugal. The only place we were charged tax on drinks was in the four Spain ports (yes, we had the drink package and yes, they had signs up at the bars informing us of the tax in Spain). Once we escaped the Spain waters, no tax was charged in any other port or at sea.

I suspect that you left the EU, which is why you only paid the tax in port.

 

NCL have been charging the tax on the entire cruise when it doesn’t leave the EU for at least a decade now. The change is that they have started charging those with the beverage package (previously it was only those paying by the drink). They also charge tax in the shops etc.

[schmoopie17]

1 minute ago, KeithJenner said:

I suspect that you left the EU, which is why you only paid the tax in port.

 

NCL have been charging the tax on the entire cruise when it doesn’t leave the EU for at least a decade now. The change is that they have started charging those with the beverage package (previously it was only those paying by the drink). They also charge tax in the shops etc.

So France, Italy and Portugal are now outside of the EU?? As I said, the ONLY ports we paid the tax were the four in Spain. 

[KeithJenner]

4 minutes ago, schmoopie17 said:

So France, Italy and Portugal are now outside of the EU?? As I said, the ONLY ports we paid the tax were the four in Spain. 

I just said that I suspected you left the EU, as that would have explained it. Not making a statement or anything like that, just trying to understand why these things may be.

 

Not sure why they didn’t charge for the whole trip then. The usual procedure is to charge for the whole cruise in these cases.

 

It may be to do with where the cruise started. We have paid tax for the whole cruise when sailing from Italy and Spain, but I do recall discussion in the past that it can depend on that.

[luv2kroooz]

7 minutes ago, schmoopie17 said:

So France, Italy and Portugal are now outside of the EU?? As I said, the ONLY ports we paid the tax were the four in Spain. 

I think what KeithJenner is saying is that you left the EU when you crossed the Atlantic. As a result, you were not charged tax throughout the entire cruise.

[KeithJenner]

5 minutes ago, luv2kroooz said:

I think what KeithJenner is saying is that you left the EU when you crossed the Atlantic. As a result, you were not charged tax throughout the entire cruise.

Actually, I didn’t notice that it was a transatlantic, but yes, that’s exactly what I was saying. For the tax to be charged on the whole cruise the ship needs to stay within the EU for the entire time. Obviously a transatlantic doesn’t do that.

 

As an example, we once did a B2B from Venice. Week 1 went to Istanbul and therefore tax was only charged in port (if even there, I don’t recall), but week 2 was just Greek Isles so we had tax for the entire week.

[schmoopie17]

18 minutes ago, luv2kroooz said:

I think what KeithJenner is saying is that you left the EU when you crossed the Atlantic. As a result, you were not charged tax throughout the entire cruise.

So which country collects the tax when you're not in port and out "at sea", if you don't leave the EU??

[KeithJenner]

The suggestion from what NCL said back in 2013 is that the tax is imposed by the country where the cruise originates. This may be why there was discussion regarding whether it didn't happen for some cruises.

 

I've attached some excerpts from the leaflet handed out on our cruise in 2013. They refer to "Spanish VAT" (we embarked in Barcelona).

[podgeandrodge]

What about where cruise "originates" from both Barcelona and Rome i.e. if you embark in Rome the tax shouldn't apply? But that would be impossible to manage?

[The Traveling Man]

On 5/25/2023 at 2:50 PM, macattack1111 said:

Does this mean....if you do for example a 10 day cruise that does not leave the EU at all in the 10 days you will pay VAT for every single drink you have even though you have paid £199 for the so called Free At Sea. BUT if during your 10 day cruise you go to Morocco for one day which is outside the EU then these Taxes would not be collected...I hope somebody has the answer to this question.

That is exactly the way the Captain of the Star explained it during an all-EU cruise of the Mediterranean in 2016.  The rules may have changed since then.  YMMV.

[The Traveling Man]

On 5/25/2023 at 4:03 PM, schmoopie17 said:

Charging tax at sea???? Since when?? And which country collects the tax in the middle of the sea?

As it was explained to passengers on the Star on a cruise in 2016, the port of origin, in our case Barcelona, would be due the tax for the duration of the cruise if the ship never docks at a port outside the EU.

[The Traveling Man]

On 5/25/2023 at 4:33 PM, KeithJenner said:

I suspect that you left the EU, which is why you only paid the tax in port.

 

NCL have been charging the tax on the entire cruise when it doesn’t leave the EU for at least a decade now. The change is that they have started charging those with the beverage package (previously it was only those paying by the drink). They also charge tax in the shops etc.

My wife and I each had the beverage package while on the Star in the Mediterranean in 2016.  We were charged tax on every beverage we ordered throughout the 11 day cruise.

[The Traveling Man]

On 5/25/2023 at 4:03 PM, schmoopie17 said:

Charging tax at sea???? Since when?? And which country collects the tax in the middle of the sea?

 

We were on a TA last November on the Escape out of Rome with a stop in Livorno, four stops in Spain, one in France and three in Portugal. The only place we were charged tax on drinks was in the four Spain ports (yes, we had the drink package and yes, they had signs up at the bars informing us of the tax in Spain). Once we escaped the Spain waters, no tax was charged in any other port or at sea.

Yes, but when you crossed the Atlantic and docked at a US port, your cruise left the EU territorial waters.  The practice of charging tax on beverages served while the ship is at sea appears to apply only when the entire cruise is within EU waters, with no ports of call other than those in EU countries.

[Krydstosser]

I got this from a current guest on NCL Epic in the Port of Livorno today! 

 

 looks like NCL has paid for their Alcohol License and this is solved,

 

Better late than never... 

[ollienbertsmum]

20 minutes ago, Krydstosser said:

I got this from a current guest on NCL Epic in the Port of Livorno today! 

 

 looks like NCL has paid for their Alcohol License and this is solved,

 

Better late than never... 

I am still not convinced.  They have thrown out a badly written sign.  It includes typos.  The sign says that extra tax will be charged when drinks are served.  It does not say IF drinks will be served or not.  NCL have made such a hash of this, I no longer believe them.  I do not feel valued.