Please, please help me how do I resolve my problem and clear my name

[aborgman]

27 minutes ago, TreyB said:

Kind of funny, there are a few certain dudes in this thread that supposedly love cruising and love Carnival but in this and almost every other thread they participate in they do nothing but bash Carnival and have nothing positive to say about cruising. 
 

Jeez if it’s that bad find another way to vacation and put yourselves out of your misery. 🤣

 

This is a widespread issue in the hospitality industry - airlines, hotels, resorts, cruises, etc.

 

This is not a Carnival problem, or a cruising problem.

 

This is a non-symmetric power relationship, corporations have a fiduciary duty to be amoral, problem - which is why government regulations are the only solution.

[jimbo5544]

5 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

There are differences, of the cruise lines choosing, that they chose to increase their profits at the expense of increased risk.

 

Many other industries suffered mass cancellations and the need to deal with refund volume way beyond normal. Most chose to slow play refunds to unethically (but legally) prop up their businesses on the customers backs.

Show it to me.   Bet you can’t. 

[aborgman]

31 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I asked for comparable and there is none.  

 

I'll agree to disagree. In my opinion you're asking for "identical", not "comparable". 

 

 

[jimbo5544]

2 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

This is a widespread issue in the hospitality industry - airlines, hotels, resorts, cruises, etc.

 

This is not a Carnival problem, or a cruising problem.

 

This is a non-symmetric power relationship, corporations have a fiduciary duty to be amoral, problem - which is why government regulations are the only solution.

Cruise lines, virtually every single stock based company has one primary obligation.  To their stockholders.  Notice I did not say government.  Let’s leave the politics out of the discussion.  When it enters…I always feel dirty discussing it.  

[jimbo5544]

1 minute ago, aborgman said:

 

I'll agree to disagree. In my opinion you're asking for "identical", not "comparable". 

 

 

I understand, we can move on.  I asked and you could not answer (with facts anyway).  Opinions are like butts, everybody has one.  Facts are ….. well….facts.  

[broberts]

59 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Not even close

 

Please define exactly how the situations are not comparable.

[ObstructedView2]

On 6/22/2023 at 1:59 PM, esper10 said:

From the little that I learned is during the pandemic I owe $250.00 I thought hard I did cancel a cruise back than and when carnival did return my deposit I called my credit card company and got my money back.

 

Hi @esper10🙂

 

Only use a (credit card dispute) as a last resort and, of course, make sure you are owed the refund you received. What occurred to you is considered (friendly fraud). Its viewed as a misuse of the credit card (chargeback process).

 

Writing to Carnival isn't good enough to (clear your name). You'll have to (speak directly) with Carnival's (credit department) & pay the charge back, in effort to be removed from the no-sail list. 

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

 

🍹

[Eli_6]

FWIW, I researched the refund issue during the shut down and there is a legal requirement for a company to provide a refund that they admit that they owe within a given time frame.  It depends on where you live, but it was somewhere between 30-90 days.  

 

However, the pandemic was a totally unprecedented situation and I doubt any court would have held a company to the normal rule in that situation. That's probably why you haven't seen any class actions arising out of Carnival holding on to money for a couple of months.  

 

With that said, I myself have had trouble getting refunds from Carnival unrelated to the pandemic so I feel the OP's pain. BUT I did eventually get the refunds both times after spending an absurd amount of time on the phone.

 

I strongly suspect that if OP was willing to pay the $250 and explain what happened, they would probably be able to sail again. I can't fathom a company as deeply in debt as Carnival is going to turn away money unless they think that there is a risk of genuine fraud--i.e. that people will sail with them, run up huge charges on board and then "dispute" those charges and get them taken off. If you think about, someone could charge a bunch on their S&S card to a machine in the casino, cash out in the casino, and then "dispute" it for fraud and potentially steal well more than just drinks.  Or buy tens of thousands of dollars in Effy or used Rolexes on board and then dispute the charges.    

[aborgman]

28 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I understand, we can move on.  I asked and you could not answer (with facts anyway).  Opinions are like butts, everybody has one.  Facts are ….. well….facts.  

 

You're arguing the airline industry didn't suffer mass cancellations and the need to deal with refund volume way beyond normal. 

[ksmcdonald]

1 hour ago, jimbo5544 said:

So in your past history, were there 10’s of thousands of people all trying to do the same thing at the same time?  The covid and post covid was of course unprecedented and a series of events that no one saw coming and could not plan for.  Virtually thousands of calls all trying to get thru at the same time.   4 hour wait on hold, then you have to work thru the accounts, different credit cards used for different deposits, monies moved from ne cruise that gets canceled to another, tracking additional OBC to entice keeping money on the books, then repeat, then repeat then repeat.  The process went on and on.  The industry had to do this to stay afloat. At one point in time Carnival had almost 3 billion on deposits on the books they uses to keep from going under.

 

No other industry ever had to go thru this, no system would EVER have been built to handle this, to compare them to such is simply unfair.  

FYI that was unprecedented time for us as well. When no money was coming in from layoffs at work due to Covid, that $8,000 was critical to me to feed my family and pay my bills. Four months was as patient as I was willing to be. Do you know what kind of interest Carnival made with, as you say “Carnival had almost 3 billion on deposit”. 3 billion of other people’s money would make a pretty good penny for a company no longer paying their crews or fueling their ships. So it’s fine for Carnival to keep our money to keep them afloat, what about giving our money back in a timely fashion to keep me afloat?  

[jimbo5544]

Just now, aborgman said:

 

You're arguing the airline industry didn't suffer mass cancellations and the need to deal with refund volume way beyond normal. 

Thought we were moving on….  I am not arguing anything.  They are not the same, they have a system built for frequent changes, the cruise industry does (and did) not.  The cruise industry had 10’s possibly 100’s of thousands of reservations they had to cancel and redo (on a rolling basis by the way), the other industries did not. THE ENTIRE industry was shut down by the government (stupidly so, but again another topic) the other industries did not.  The airline cancellations (were there that many????) were one offs, the cruise lines had to cancel, rebook,  wait for the cdc do do nothing, then start again, then build an entire plan for mitigation the airlines did not.  The build an entire mitigation plan for every single island destination, the airlines did not.  This oversight went on for almost 2 years, the airlines did not.  I can go on, but againI tought we were moving on.

[jimbo5544]

3 minutes ago, ksmcdonald said:

FYI that was unprecedented time for us as well. When no money was coming in from layoffs at work due to Covid, that $8,000 was critical to me to feed my family and pay my bills. Four months was as patient as I was willing to be. Do you know what kind of interest Carnival made with, as you say “Carnival had almost 3 billion on deposit”. 3 billion of other people’s money would make a pretty good penny for a company no longer paying their crews or fueling their ships. So it’s fine for Carnival to keep our money to keep them afloat, what about giving our money back in a timely fashion to keep me afloat?  

Do not know who the “us” you are referring to is.

[jimbo5544]

8 minutes ago, ksmcdonald said:

FYI that was unprecedented time for us as well. When no money was coming in from layoffs at work due to Covid, that $8,000 was critical to me to feed my family and pay my bills. Four months was as patient as I was willing to be. Do you know what kind of interest Carnival made with, as you say “Carnival had almost 3 billion on deposit”. 3 billion of other people’s money would make a pretty good penny for a company no longer paying their crews or fueling their ships. So it’s fine for Carnival to keep our money to keep them afloat, what about giving our money back in a timely fashion to keep me afloat?  

When you expended that money, did you think it was going into a savings account?  Thousands of hard working people in the industry lost their jobs.  Thousands were stuck on ships for almost a year waiting to be repatriated to their country.  It was fun for no one.  I am simply explaining the process they had to go thru, you can accept it or not.  I talked with them every single day.

Edited June 24, 2023 by jimbo5544

[ksmcdonald]

14 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

When you expended that money, did you think it was going into a savings account?  Thousands of hard working people in the industry lost their jobs.  Thousands were stuck on ships for almost a year waiting to be repatriated to their country.  It was fun for no one.  I am simply explaining the process they had to go thru, you can accept it or not.  I talked with them every single day.

no, but when I spent that money, I still had a job and money coming in to pay the bills. Lost my job during Covid. That money should have been returned way before 4 months. 

[broberts]

14 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Thought we were moving on….  I am not arguing anything.  They are not the same, they have a system built for frequent changes, the cruise industry does (and did) not.  The cruise industry had 10’s possibly 100’s of thousands of reservations they had to cancel and redo (on a rolling basis by the way), the other industries did not. THE ENTIRE industry was shut down by the government (stupidly so, but again another topic) the other industries did not.  The airline cancellations (were there that many????) were one offs, the cruise lines had to cancel, rebook,  wait for the cdc do do nothing, then start again, then build an entire plan for mitigation the airlines did not.  The build an entire mitigation plan for every single island destination, the airlines did not.  This oversight went on for almost 2 years, the airlines did not.  I can go on, but againI tought we were moving on.

 

I take it you had no interest in understanding the impact of the pandemic on airlines. In fact the situation was worse than the cruise lines as they had to continue providing essential services despite ruinously low loads. They did not have the luxury of shutting down all operations.

 

As to handling "frequent" changes. Cruise lines have to handle frequent changes, they do it all the time. The fact that their IT is ridiculously dated, is a testament to management's drive for near term profits over long term efficiency. I see no reason to excuse that choice.

[ksmcdonald]

19 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Do not know who the “us” you are referring to is.

“Us” is the people not as fortunate as you, that needed their money back in a timely manner to get through a tough time. To sit on your high horse saying Carnival needed to keep those deposits for a prolong period  to stay afloat is very condescending to “us” who needed our money returned. I’m not even saying I wanted it back in 5-7 days. How about two months? How about three months?  Four months is BS and you know it. 

[jimbo5544]

9 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

I take it you had no interest in understanding the impact of the pandemic on airlines. In fact the situation was worse than the cruise lines as they had to continue providing essential services despite ruinously low loads. They did not have the luxury of shutting down all operations.

 

As to handling "frequent" changes. Cruise lines have to handle frequent changes, they do it all the time. The fact that their IT is ridiculously dated, is a testament to management's drive for near term profits over long term efficiency. I see no reason to excuse that choice.

I do, they just had it WAY easier.  The luxury of shutting down….good one.  Trust me, they DEF would have preferred to sail, but the CDC said no, over and over and over again.   Show me the stats on the air lines doing anything in the realm of within 90% of covid.  You can’t because they never had to.  The airlines got 54 BILLION dollars, BILLION, pretty big gift.  Show me the layoffs for those airlines.  Handouts are NEVER the answer for anything other than crappy management to continue. 

Edited June 24, 2023 by jimbo5544

[jimbo5544]

1 minute ago, ksmcdonald said:

“Us” is the people not as fortunate as you, that needed their money back in a timely manner to get through a tough time. To sit on your high horse saying Carnival needed to keep those deposits for a prolong period  to stay afloat is very condescending to “us” who needed our money returned. I’m not even saying I wanted it back in 5-7 days. How about two months? How about three months?  Four months is BS and you know it. 

Did I say they sat on anything?  I explained why it took so long, you can read in what you want.  I explained the rationale for why it took a long time.  

[jsglow]

Um, you guys all realize that the OP's cruise sailed as scheduled on 9/4/21 right? 

[jimbo5544]

1 minute ago, jsglow said:

Um, you guys all realize that the OP's cruise sailed as scheduled on 9/4/21 right? 

Are you trying to inject facts into a CC discussion?

[jsglow]

Just now, jimbo5544 said:

Are you trying to inject facts into a CC discussion?

Yeah, I mean I think the whole discussion of how long it took for Carnival to issue legitimate refunds is reasonable.  We were so glad to simply allow our funds to roll over and for our PVP to handle it all.  We must have had 4-5 cruises wiped out and she handled it expertly.  I think we finally ran out of FCC in early '22 on perhaps our 4th or 5th cruise post re-start. It was a nightmare for many, no doubt.

[ksmcdonald]

2 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

 The industry had to do this to stay afloat. At one point in time Carnival had almost 3 billion on deposits on the books they uses to keep from going under.

 

I guess I read this wrong. I thought you said Carnival had to do this to keep afloat. 

[staceyglow]

3 hours ago, ksmcdonald said:

I always wondered why Carnival can put a charge on your credit card and it shows up immediately, but it takes longer than 90 days to refund?  It is just a key stroke on their end. During the pandemic, just think of the interest Carnival was making holding on to many, many people’s fully paid cruise for months.  If they can charge your card immediately, then 5-7 business days should be sufficient to reimburse.  
 

 

Because there is probably a review process with issuing refunds, and during the pandemic, there were literally tens of thousands of refunds to review.

 

[aborgman]

46 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

 They are not the same, 

 

Correct. They are comparable.

 

 

[jimbo5544]

3 minutes ago, ksmcdonald said:

2 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

 The industry had to do this to stay afloat. At one point in time Carnival had almost 3 billion on deposits on the books they uses to keep from going under.

 

I guess I read this wrong. I thought you said Carnival had to do this to keep afloat. 

I have no idea what they did or why.  The process was to keep the bookings going.  The enticement was if you (or I) rolled the cancelation to another date (and redepositing), they offered up to $600 OBC.