Shareholder benefits denial

[Raymondo111]

I recently contacted Carnival to request my shareholder benefit to be applied to my upcoming cruise on Azura in September but received an email back to say that my application was denied due to "the promotions applied to your booking are non combinable with shareholder benefits, you have been given a net rate discount through your travel agent therefore with this promotion given its not combinable" The cruise was booked through the TA I have used for the last 14 years, I asked for a quote for a stay and cruise on the Azura and was happy with the price so booked it. I didn't get any OBC so not sure what Carnival are saying? Anybody else experienced this? 

[CaptainPedantic]

I'm really surprised to hear this - I would have thought that OBC would only be denied if you were actually the travel agent taking advantage of offers they must get, or friends & family of P&O staff. Definitely ask your travel agent to help explain - and please let us know how it goes!

[CaptainPedantic]

Here's what the Carnival shareholder benefit Ts & Cs say:

Employees, travel agents cruising at travel agent rates, interline rates, tour conductors or anyone cruising on a reduced-rate or complimentary basis are excluded from this offer.

 

I'm wondering what "reduced-rate" actually means here, given how often prices change and how I understand travel agents are usually able to offer some small discount against the list price... I suppose technically any small additional discount could result in being denied the OBC...

[swanseaboy]

I've got a cruise buddy friend who's booked on Queen Victoria with a hotel stay which was on the 'net rate'. He has also been denied his shareholders onboard credit with the same response.

[FatBoy20]

4 minutes ago, swanseaboy said:

I've got a cruise buddy friend who's booked on Queen Victoria with a hotel stay which was on the 'net rate'. He has also been denied his shareholders onboard credit with the same response.

More Cutbacks!.

[Winifred 22]

51 minutes ago, CaptainPedantic said:

Here's what the Carnival shareholder benefit Ts & Cs say:

Employees, travel agents cruising at travel agent rates, interline rates, tour conductors or anyone cruising on a reduced-rate or complimentary basis are excluded from this offer.

 

I'm wondering what "reduced-rate" actually means here, given how often prices change and how I understand travel agents are usually able to offer some small discount against the list price... I suppose technically any small additional discount could result in being denied the OBC...

The reduced rate applies to Friends and Family offers definitely but not sure what other reduced rates come into this. 

[amajaa]

49 minutes ago, CaptainPedantic said:

Here's what the Carnival shareholder benefit Ts & Cs say:

Employees, travel agents cruising at travel agent rates, interline rates, tour conductors or anyone cruising on a reduced-rate or complimentary basis are excluded from this offer.

 

I'm wondering what "reduced-rate" actually means here, given how often prices change and how I understand travel agents are usually able to offer some small discount against the list price... I suppose technically any small additional discount could result in being denied the OBC...

I thought it mainly applied to Princess Cruises where in the USA people get the free Casino cruises, I think they just have to pay for the port fees.

 

I would be interested to know what P & O think is a reduced rate 

[david63]

Possible scenario.

 

The TA is given some special priced cruises which they then sell on to their customers. When a customer books one of these cruise (albeit unknowing that it is a "special" priced cruise) there will be a code entered against the booking and that will trigger the denial of shareholder OBC.

 

The issue would be that the TA did not advise of the conditions attached to the "special" price

[9265359]

16 minutes ago, david63 said:

The issue would be that the TA did not advise of the conditions attached to the "special" price

I always make sure I tell the TA I am a Carnival shareholder and ask if they will process the claim for OBC for me or do I need to do it myself.

 

 If they failed to advise me that OBC was not available because ‘reasons’ then I would be making a complaint and would expect them to cover the loss.

[Raymondo111]

41 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

I always make sure I tell the TA I am a Carnival shareholder and ask if they will process the claim for OBC for me or do I need to do it myself.

 

 If they failed to advise me that OBC was not available because ‘reasons’ then I would be making a complaint and would expect them to cover the loss.

I wasn't aware that this was a special price, I knew there was no OBC included in the 'deal" from P & O but assumed that I would get my shareholder benefit as I had before. I haven't cruised with P & O since 2015 but the itinerary and pre-cruise stay appealed so booked it. I have been cruising with Celebrity but prices have shot through the roof so decided to try P & O again so not impressed with how they treat their shareholders.  

[Winifred 22]

9 minutes ago, Raymondo111 said:

I wasn't aware that this was a special price, I knew there was no OBC included in the 'deal" from P & O but assumed that I would get my shareholder benefit as I had before. I haven't cruised with P & O since 2015 but the itinerary and pre-cruise stay appealed so booked it. I have been cruising with Celebrity but prices have shot through the roof so decided to try P & O again so not impressed with how they treat their shareholders.  

Why is it P &O ‘s fault ? The Terms and Conditions of Shareholder benefits are clearly stipulated. Whoever you booked with should have made you aware that the booking would fall out of the scope of the Shareholder Benefit scheme. Perhaps ask them to make up the OBC you are not entitled to. I have enjoyed Friends and Family savings from both Cunard and P &O in the past and accept these bookings are outside of the Shareholders scheme because of their competive price. 

[david63]

You also have to take into account what the overall price of the cruise is against what the headline price for that cruise is. If the saving is more than the shareholder OBC then you are in pocket.

[swanseaboy]

It's definitely a change in policy. A few years ago (around 2016) I took QM2 to NYC, stayed for 5 nights and sailed QM2 home booked as a package with a UK cruise agent. It was most definitely a deal on the 'net' rate yet they gave me shareholder credit on both the outbound trip and return. Looks like it is indeed 'cutbacks' 😐

[amajaa]

12 hours ago, Winifred 22 said:

Why is it P &O ‘s fault ? The Terms and Conditions of Shareholder benefits are clearly stipulated. Whoever you booked with should have made you aware that the booking would fall out of the scope of the Shareholder Benefit scheme. Perhaps ask them to make up the OBC you are not entitled to. I have enjoyed Friends and Family savings from both Cunard and P &O in the past and accept these bookings are outside of the Shareholders scheme because of their competive price. 

Perhaps the TA also wasn’t aware.

 

I think what all Shareholders now want to know is what constitutes these special deals that exclude you from getting the extra OBC because in some cases there doesn’t seem to be any logic in it.  @Raymondo111 please let us know what your TA has to say when you ask them it might ( or might not ) throw some light on it.

[david63]

1 hour ago, amajaa said:

want to know is what constitutes these special deals

It is the old story "If it looks too good to be true, then it is too good to be true"

 

Essentially if you know the price of a cruise is, say, £1,000 and the TA is offering it at £800 then that should sound the alarm bells to ask questions. It's all about doing your homework.

 

(I am not saying that is what happened in this instance)

[yorkshirephil]

6 minutes ago, david63 said:

It is the old story "If it looks too good to be true, then it is too good to be true"

 

Essentially if you know the price of a cruise is, say, £1,000 and the TA is offering it at £800 then that should sound the alarm bells to ask questions. It's all about doing your homework.

 

(I am not saying that is what happened in this instance)

I would be happy to give up the OBC for a £200 discounted rate.

[Harry Peterson]

In my experience, agents almost invariably sell at exactly the same price as P&O, with exactly the same benefits. A discount may be available by negotiation, which is funded out of the agent’s commission, and not by P&O.

 

Has something changed?

[tring]

37 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

In my experience, agents almost invariably sell at exactly the same price as P&O, with exactly the same benefits. A discount may be available by negotiation, which is funded out of the agent’s commission, and not by P&O.

 

Has something changed?

 

The op reported buying a package from the agent, which included a non P&O flight and hotel deal.  Sounds to me as though the cruise price was very low, but their profit was on the other elements.  Perhaps P&O had sold off some very cheap deals which could be sold in that way, but it would not make it obvious that the cruise had been reduced by so much.

 

Last Oct we were on Azura when a lot of people came on the ship for the 9 day translocation leg of the cruise.  They had cruise and stay deals involving hotel stays and I think agents flights.  I am pretty sure they got those in a very cheap deal, so could be as I said, with a batch of excess availability being sold off to an agent to get shut.  We have seen some specific agents selling particularly good deals for other cruise lines as well, often on a regular basis when cruises have not sold well.

 

  

Edited July 14, 2023 by tring

[Harry Peterson]

11 minutes ago, tring said:

 

The op reported buying a package from the agent, which included a non P&O flight and hotel deal.  Sounds to me as though the cruise price was very low, but their profit was on the other elements.  Perhaps P&O had sold off some very cheap deals which could be sold in that way, but it would not make it obvious that the cruise had been reduced by so much.

 

Last Oct we were on Azura when a lot of people came on the ship for the 9 day translocation leg of the cruise.  They had cruise and stay deals involving hotel stays and I think agents flights.  I am pretty sure they got those in a very cheap deal, so could be as I said, with a batch of excess availability being sold off to an agent to get shut.  We have seen some specific agents selling particularly good deals for other cruise lines as well, often on a regular basis when cruises have not sold well.

 

  

That sounds entirely logical.  So if your conjecture is correct, which it may well be, agents may well be selling two types of cruise - the ones sold retail by P&O at the same prices, and others effectively wholesaled by P&O to the TA which aren't available direct to the public.

 

Pretty clearly, P&O aren't going to be prepared to lose what might be a large part of a small margin with a further discount, and that's entirely understandable.  

 

Seems then, as others have said, that a direct question is needed with any TA booking if a shareholder benefit is being looked for.

[Windsurfboy]

If like many do the OP checked the price on P&O website and compared it to TA price, they should know how good a deal they got. If this vastly cheaper and more than shareholder OBC, nothing to complain about. If not !

[amajaa]

It would be really handy if the OP came back in here and posted what his TA had to say about it then it might clear it up correctly . 

[tring]

49 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

If like many do the OP checked the price on P&O website and compared it to TA price, they should know how good a deal they got. If this vastly cheaper and more than shareholder OBC, nothing to complain about. If not !

 

As it was sold to the OP as a package, with a hotel and flights, I doubt the TA gave a breakdown if the individual prices.  It is much more common for such deals to be sold as complete packages at price X.  If there is a breakdown of prices within the package, that would become a tailor made holiday and would cost a lot more in our experience. 

 

We have bought a number of tailor made hols as well as packages in recent years, though of course both have the legal protections that you would expect from a package.

 

[molecrochip]

I can shed some light on this. Firstly, the answer from P&O is correct - this appears to be what they consider a reduced rate cruise and therefore is not combinable with shareholder or other benefits.

 

There are many types of reduced rate cruise, nett cruises are one, casino or concession (TA staff) cruises are others. For the avoidance of doubt, this also includes any discounted cruise booked by staff, their friends and family. So it really is across everything. These rules have been in place for as long as I remember but the difference is that since the pandemic, the company has been sticking to them.

 

There are two types of cruise which a TA can buy from an operator such as P&O. A standard cruise, where they act as pure agent for the cruise line. A hotel/flight can be added to these but it is typically arranged through the cruise line. The TA gets their standard commission margin, and the passenger travels under the cruise line's ABTA and/or ATOL protections. Any problems and the claim is to the cruise line (although the agency relationship may require you use them as a conduit).

 

There is then a nett fare. This is where a cruise line sells the TA the cruise for use as a component in the TAs own product - usually Cruise & Stay type holidays.

 

The TA is the creator of the package (essentially the Tour Operator). They will package nett fares from hotels, cruise lines, and airlines into one bundled package. The passenger will travel under the TA's ABTA/ATOL protections - the cruise operator is purely one supplier of many in the booking. The TA takes the risk of the booking in this case and crucially, if something goes wrong your claim is against them, and they then have to claim against the individual components. The TA gets their commission from the difference between the sales price to customer and the price of the constituent parts.

 

Wrapping back to the OP, they have not purchased a cruise from P&O - they have purchased a cruise and stay package from the TA. They are not legally P&O's customer hence why the shareholder benefit does not apply. (for clarity, the TA is the customer of P&O, the TA just nominates their customer/the OP to stay/use the booking).

 

The way to tell the difference is when booking through a TA as agent, your booking should be with the company direct via the TA as agent. On a TA package, your booking is solely with the TA however it may then refer to the cruise line as a supplier.

 

Finally, this is separate to some online retailers who state that they are acting as agent in relation to each and every part of the booking and hence book each part separate just on your behalf. In this case you loose a lot of your protections and have to rely on travel insurance.

[Host Hattie]

Please do not include the name of your travel agent in your posts. 

Thank you 

[Raymondo111]

Ok, I wasn't aware that travel agents names were not to be included, as this travel agent probably does a great deal of business with P & O I thought it relevant, my apologies.