Marina November 1 “Holy Lands and Treasures” Itinerary Changes

[ak1004]

1 minute ago, basor said:

If I understand your comment, you believe the cruise line should stop offering cruises in places that might be dicey.....as I look at the World map and areas of the World that currently have a conflict, political unrest or humanitarian crisis, I am not finding many places that they could sail...add to that areas that have weather issues and the cruise industry might as well close up.  I believe that the passenger does have some personal responsibility to make a decision understanding the potential for an itinerary change or cancelation.   I understand that others feel the onus is on the cruise industry.  We hope to continue to have the opportunity to sail in the future and will choose the itineraries based upon our level of comfort

 

Add to the list countries that support and/or finance terror and/or have a history of terrorist attacks and/or high crime (India, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, Oman, Turkey, South Africa, Honduras, Brazil etc) and the list of places to visit becomes really small.

[clojacks]

20 minutes ago, basor said:

If I understand your comment, you believe the cruise line should stop offering cruises in places that might be dicey.....as I look at the World map and areas of the World that currently have a conflict, political unrest or humanitarian crisis, I am not finding many places that they could sail...add to that areas that have weather issues and the cruise industry might as well close up.  I believe that the passenger does have some personal responsibility to make a decision understanding the potential for an itinerary change or cancelation.   I understand that others feel the onus is on the cruise industry.  We hope to continue to have the opportunity to sail in the future and will choose the itineraries based upon our level of comfort

I think what I am suggesting, is that the cancellation burden not be beared 100% by the passenger, unless they have insurance. To me, it appears that the cancellation rules that have been in place for probably decades, are no longer relevant to today's cancellation situations. Why should those changes be shouldered strictly by the passenger. I'm not saying the passenger should get full compensation, but neither am I saying that the cruise line should get the passengers whole fare if they decide to cancel when a situation exists that obviously is not in either the cruise lines or the passengers best interest to sail in.

Edited October 18, 2023 by clojacks

[clojacks]

7 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

Add to the list countries that support and/or finance terror and/or have a history of terrorist attacks and/or high crime (India, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, Oman, Turkey, South Africa, Honduras, Brazil etc) and the list of places to visit becomes really small.

I think you're missing my point and blowing this a little bit unrealistically.

[basor]

17 minutes ago, clojacks said:

I think what I am suggesting, is that the cancellation burden not be beared 100% by the passenger, unless they have insurance. To me, it appears that the cancellation rules that have been in place for probably decades, are no longer relevant to today's cancellation situations. Why should those changes be shouldered strictly by the passenger. I'm not saying the passenger should get full compensation, but neither am I saying that the cruise line should get the passengers whole fare if they decide to cancel when a situation exists that obviously is not in either the cruise lines or the passengers best interest to sail in.

Thank you for the clarification.....when a cruise has been totally canceled, we have received compensation but when the itinerary is changed, generally we have not but we always purchase travel insurance and so can make a claim via that avenue.  We purchase insurance not just for this instance but for the medical, flights, etc. so the cruise protection is just one part.

[Woodrowst]

15 hours ago, Queen of DaNile said:

She may have meant Future Cruise Credit but can't say for sure.

If that is what she meant, then why would future cruise credit be better than a refund?  Wouldn’t a refund be more desirable as it is cash on hand?

[Woodrowst]

15 hours ago, LHT28 said:

Nothing trumps  a refund

An FCC  has to be used in a certain time frame 

That was my assumption too.  Then why would the OP say she would prefer FCC?  I am confused ☺️

[Tsunami74]

5 minutes ago, Woodrowst said:

If that is what she meant, then why would future cruise credit be better than a refund?  Wouldn’t a refund be more desirable as it is cash on hand?

There have been situations where upon cruise line offered a 125% FCC or a 100% refund. 

 

I believe that was our offer from Viking when a cruise was cancelled during covid times.  However, we still took the cash at hand despite later rebooking that same exact cruise.

[RD64]

2 hours ago, ak1004 said:

 

Are you suggesting that cruise lines stop selling cruises to Israel? Wouldn't this be a prize and surrender to terrorists? Not to mention that 99% of those cruises sail as planned.

But if people stop booking these cruises to potentially dicey areas, the cruise lines will have no option but to look for alternate itineraries.

[ak1004]

1 hour ago, RD64 said:

But if people stop booking these cruises to potentially dicey areas, the cruise lines will have no option but to look for alternate itineraries.

True. But why people would do it? Check how many cruises to Israel have been cancelled/modified in the last 10-15 years. I bet it less than 1%. While every operation/war is tragic and takes innocent lives, statistically those are events that not that common and don't last more than couple weeks.

 

Of course the current one is probably different.

[RD64]

4 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

True. But why people would do it? Check how many cruises to Israel have been cancelled/modified in the last 10-15 years. I bet it less than 1%. While every operation/war is tragic and takes innocent lives, statistically those are events that not that common and don't last more than couple weeks.

 

Of course the current one is probably different.

Without a doubt cruise lines are already looking at adjusting itineraries for 2024. Although to many on here it is ancient history, but in October 1985 the Achille Lauro was hijacked off the coast of Egypt and an American passenger killed. Bookings for the 1986 Mediterranean season evaporated and did not return to normal until the 1987 season.

 

Granted the cruise industry was at a different point in its evolution forty years ago. Most cruise companies high tailed it out of the Med and brought their ships to North America. The now defunct Sun Line - a Greek cruise line - offered some interesting itineraries on this side of the ocean - as opposed to the Greek islands.

 

The 2024 season will be starting shortly - five or six months. While I doubt the situation will  be a repeat of 1985/1986 - surely the cruise lines are watching bookings. I do anticipate that Israeli ports will disappear from next year’s schedules. At the very least they will promote these cruises as “Magical Mediterranean” as opposed to Israel and the Holy Land - that way passengers can’t complain that they were promised a cruise to Israel and the Holy Land.

[GeorgiaPeach51]

I started this thread and will now finish with an update, as I promised.  I feel that I owe that to at least some of you who have commented, and for those who attempted to be helpful.  You are appreciated.  I have, indeed, followed along in case anyone posted something helpful, but am glad I did not continue to deal with those of you who had so much criticism to share, especially the one person who felt it necessary to write paragraphs and paragraphs under the guise of being helpful.  You know who you are, and we will agree to disagree about whether your long winded efforts are genuine or just a chance to pontificate.  Moving on….

 

O has offered an FCC.  I am VERY grateful and appreciative of their response, and relieved that they didn’t wait until the last moment.  We are going to take the FCC, for reasons I will clarify below, along with some Odds and ends, to wrap things up.

 

1.  Why did I say from the beginning that I wanted an FCC (Future Cruise Credit)?

 

 Because I had no wish to be punitive to an already struggling cruise line by asking for a refund.  A refund further drains their already depleted funds.  At least, with an FCC they get to keep my money. The terms of the FCC are that it has to be booked by November 30 for a cruise to take place before 12/31/25.  It can be used once.  If you don’t use the full amount you will lose the difference.  This may be somewhat problematic because so many O cruises are already waitlisted.  But that is a problem for another day.  We still want to do an O cruise and look forward to it.

 

For us, $27,000 is a lot of money.  I remain astonished that so many of you would be fine with a cruise line completely changing almost your entire cruise from what you paid for with no compensation, no OBC, no FCC, not even the right to protest…because that is what some of you expressed that I should do.  Wow!  Pay for a Bentley and get a VW instead!  What a great deal!  This reflects my good luck in never having previously had these extreme port changes that some of you have suffered.

 

2.  This cruise starts in Istanbul.  The morning news in Turkey is not good, and I do not expect it to improve for a while.  Do you?  People are being told to be cautious, dress inconspicuously, etc.  My personal take on that is I may be inconspicuous but you can be sure that if there is a terrorist nearby he or she will also be inconspicuous. We all have our own comfort levels and risk to reward ratios.  I would imagine that security in Istanbul will be substantially increased in order to protect tourism.  But I don’t love the idea of looking over my shoulder and being uneasy the whole time.  And if you are caught up in a demonstration that turns into a riot, you are on your own.  Others profess to no worries and I applaud them and wish them well.

 

3.  Oceania has been radio silent.  I know they are busy and have no problem with that.  We have received one email to the whole ship with the new itinerary.  That is it.  Writing directly to Mr. Ortega elicited the responding offer of an FCC.  To my knowledge there has not been a blanket email to everyone on the ship, but it could have happened.

 

4.  The two days in Alexandria with the ship leaving port early evening to sail in circles overnight leads me to think they do not want the ship sitting in port for safety reasons….and that does not inspire confidence.  In the absence of communication passengers are left to make their own conclusions.  Those are mine.

 

5.  Mykonos and Santorini in November.  Temps in the 50’s and can be lower.  Much higher probability of rain.  Most hotels closed.  Many restaurants and shops closed. This is according to internet info, not personal experiences. It may be lovely and uncrowded but Greek Islands and wearing a winter coat don’t compute for me and will never be on my personal to do list.  Some people on the roll call are continuing on and I wish them well.

 

5.  Insurance.  Chase Sapphire is well known for their travel benefits.  One of you made statements about it without knowing what they offer.  I encourage some of you to investigate it as an alternate to a regular policy.   It MAY be of benefit to you.  Compare it to your normal purchased travel insurance.  I THINK you will find them very, very similar.  You just have to pay for your cruise with your Chase card.  You also need to weigh the benefits of Cancel for Any Reason insurance.  You still lose 50-75%, which is a lot on this $27,000 cruise.  At this point O will credit all but our air differential and custom air fees, $3,950.  Preliminary discussion with Chase Sapphire seems that they will reimburse those costs. 

 

I question if this cruise will continue to attempt to go out of Istanbul with the increase of protests in Turkey and if they will be able to hold onto Alexandria, given the proximity to the Gaza Strip.  Things certainly are not improving day by day, unfortunately, so it is hard to be optimistic, but I hope it works out.  I’m sure they won’t cancel it because they have to get the ship to Barcelona for the next leg.  May as well sail half full for those who want to go.

 

I never pictured myself being the type of person that would be reluctant to get off at ports, but that is where I am.  It would have been very stressful for me personally to undertake this trip because there are too many places passengers would be vulnerable, in my view.  Had we docked in Alexandria I do not think I would have been comfortable getting that far from the ship, to see the pyramids, even with armed guards along for the ride.  Not worth it to me.  If I have to be anxious and worried or even a little fearful, it’s not a vacation.  
 

if you have questions I will try to answer.  Now, back to our regularly schedule program….

 

Joanie

[Kayla23]

Georgia Peach,

My sentiments exactly!!  The only reason we were going on the original cruise was to go to the Holy Land and Egypt. The revised itinerary is totally unacceptable for us also as we were in the three Greek ports in June on a land tour. We stayed at each port for 3 nights and did much of the sightseeing you could do. I agree with you that Alexandria is questionable also. I understand it is not the cruise line's fault, but it isn't our fault either and we should not be penalized. Previously, we have been on cruises where the itinerary was changed due to weather etc. but to change it before we leave and not give us any options is so unfair. Talk about not going on a holy land cruise as purchased. At this point I am not sure if we are even safe going on this cruise at all but the cost to not go is over the top.  Everyday another county is getting involved. Oceania, like other cruise lines, needs to cancel the cruise and allow us to book another cruise this year or next year to a safer location and one that we would like to go on and not one that Oceania has selected for us. Thank you for letting me vent. 

[Kayla23]

Georgia Peach,

Thanks for letting us know about the FCC. We will be writing to Mr Ortega as well. It can't hurt. I agree it is too much money to lose and to feel so unsafe.

Thank you for the update.

[GeorgiaPeach51]

@Kayla23  I don’t think they will cancel the cruise, but will go forward with the cruise for those who want to go.  But for those of us, like both of us, who do not want to go, they are offering exactly what you want….a Future Cruise Credit, FCC.  Basically, you will have a credit with O that you can apply to a cruise at any time before the end of 2025.  You don’t have to take this cruise.  You need to contact your TA so you can get the FCC credited.  At this point, according to the roll call, the FCC is out there to claim, I THINK, not just for those who wrote to Mr. Ortega.  I would contact my TA or Oceania directly tomorrow to request it, and only waste time writing to Mr. Ortega if you don’t get a positive reaction from them.

 

others with more experience may be able to give you better or more accurate info about how to get the FCC, but it is out there, for sure.

 

Joanie

Edited October 18, 2023 by GeorgiaPeach51

[Queen of DaNile]

Joanie - Your reasoning is sound and well articulated. Kudos to you for perservering and finding a solution to an almost impossible situation.

[GeorgiaPeach51]

55 minutes ago, Queen of DaNile said:

Joanie - Your reasoning is sound and well articulated. Kudos to you for perservering and finding a solution to an almost impossible situation.

I didn’t do a thing!  Oceania saved the day, not me.  I’m very grateful to them.  They gave the solution that saved the impossible situation.  

[Vineyard View]

2 hours ago, GeorgiaPeach51 said:

 

For us, $27,000 is a lot of money.  

 

I never pictured myself being the type of person that would be reluctant to get off at ports, but that is where I am.  It would have been very stressful for me personally to undertake this trip because there are too many places passengers would be vulnerable, in my view.  Had we docked in Alexandria I do not think I would have been comfortable getting that far from the ship, to see the pyramids, even with armed guards along for the ride.  Not worth it to me.  

Joanie

I am really glad that it all worked out to your complete satisfaction. I agree. $27k IS a lot of money. That was a class move that Oceania made. 
 

We spent time in Alexandrea (unknowingly a day some of what we wanted to see was closed, including their amazing Library). I am not sure what one would do for two days, but maybe there is a lot. I never researched that much. I will add that an armed guard does not necessarily take away the possible dangerous encounter. I know this first hand from an experience in Cairo in 2014 when Egypt had just opened back up. I have not heard of such a situation since, but I do not follow. Fast forward to the present situation, and I would feel like you. Uncomfortable and not safe. 
 

Again, glad it all worked out for you, and sounds like it will for others who feel similarly. And kudos to O
 

Edited October 19, 2023 by Vineyard View

[janelledocb]

Thank you for providing the update and information and I am sorry that many were not very nice to you on this thread.  I used to be very active on CC, but I pretty much no longer post here and use it far less than I used to because I don't find it fun or helpful to read the mean comments.  And they certainly don't get me in a cruising mood 🙂

I am glad that Oceania provided you with FCCs and think that is a great gesture on their part.  We haven't sailed on Oceania yet, but are very much looking forward to doing so next year!   

[cruisemom42]

@GeorgiaPeach51 I’m delighted to hear that Oceania provided a reasonable solution for you. 
 

It has occurred to me to wonder if, as a future solution for such itineraries, cruise lines might consider purchasing additional insurance for these kinds of cruises and then offer them at an increased price but also with the assurance that if the itinerary should significantly change, passengers have the opportunity to rebook a later cruise or take a  FCC. (Significantly being well defined of course, similar to how it’s done in the UK). 
 

As a traveler with wanderlust, I’d hate to see them not offer such itineraries at all.

 

Finally, just to share a few data points to reassure other travelers:

 

I’ve visited both Mykonos and Santorini on cruises in November several times. Always been sunny, and never had anything approaching winter coat weather. Even as late as the last week of the month, stores and restaurants were mostly open—I’d say about 85-90%. And trust me, visiting in November is far preferable to visiting in the height of the season. I was just in Santorini last week on my current cruise, and there were 9200 cruise ship passengers in port that day. Untenable, given the cable car capacity!!

 

Also, I’ve just been in Istanbul and one other Turkish port, and will call on yet another as well as finishing in Istanbul. We’ve experienced nothing that should give any visitor pause.

[liptastic]

Joanie,

I am glad you have returned to update your situation. You have written  the outcome with sincerity and honesty. I thoroughly enjoyed your live blogs on Regent and look forward to your next venture. 
Regards, Jean. 

[GeorgiaPeach51]

@cruisemom42  Wow!   I think your insurance idea for tenuous ports like Israel can be is a good one.  It would certainly give those who are hesitant to visit places like Israel the reassurance they might need.  Perhaps it is time to think out of the box.  I agree that it would be a great loss to have those ports no longer offered.  I still want to try to go to Israel, but will have to work hard to convince my husband.  It remains highest on my own bucket list.

 

I am glad to hear that your experience with the Greek islands in November is a good one.  As I said, all I had was info from the internet, not personal experience.  Glad, too, to know that it is normal business in ports in Turkey.  That gives me hope that perhaps our collective hopes for things to not escalate further will happen.  I always appreciate your measured and well communicated posts!

 

Joanie

[Harters]

22 hours ago, ak1004 said:

India, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, Oman, Turkey, South Africa, Honduras, Brazil etc)

Add France, Spain and the UK to your list of countries where terrorist attacks  have occured with some regularity. 

[clojacks]

36 minutes ago, Harters said:

Add France, Spain and the UK to your list of countries where terrorist attacks  have occured with some regularity. 

I don't think my intent was to initiate a list of every single country where some form of "terrorism" has occurred in the last 10 years, but it seems that's the interpretation some of you are making to my post. There are obviously countries where Terrorism has a much higher potential for occurring, as evidenced by State Department warning levels. But if it fits your "where are you going to travel then" narrative, knock yourself out.

[Harters]

1 hour ago, clojacks said:

as evidenced by State Department warning levels.

I've no idea how your government currently rates the warning level for the UK - but our own government rates the threat as "substantial", meaning an attack is likely. 

[clojacks]

22 minutes ago, Harters said:

I've no idea how your government currently rates the warning level for the UK - but our own government rates the threat as "substantial", meaning an attack is likely. 

Well, the US just did this....

 

Worldwide Caution: Due to increased tensions in various locations around the world, the potential for terrorist attacks, demonstrations or violent actions against U.S. citizens and interests, the Department of State

@StateDept

advises U.S. citizens overseas to exercise increased caution. More at https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/worldwide-caution.html