Rare Megabear2 Posted September 30, 2023 #476 Share Posted September 30, 2023 As I said way back in this thread the real conundrum is not those individuals who are already booked but the effect this decision will have to future bookings, ie the cruises still on sale - and there's a lot of them. Once the dust has settled on the bookings made P&O is clearly going to have customers having a crisis of confidence in them. The sensible thing to do would be to put their hands up, say we are sorry for how we handled it both with the agents and those booked. I've just revisited the list of flights involved: there appear to be 40 in total. If every PE seat has been booked on these flights (and I doubt that is the case) we are looking at 63 passengers per flight which means we have a maximum 2,520 people affected. If each person has paid in full their £409 supplement, again doubtful, P&O have already committed to refund £1,030,680 due to not being able to offer this cabin. Given that a large number of these 2,520 people won't have paid their balance we are looking at most being on a 10% deposit. Using my own cruise as an example at a cost of £6378 plus £818 PE supplement (total £7196 for 2) we are looking at £719.60 deposit for PE customers and using £1,300 as the entry cost for a basic inside saver cabin plus £818 PE supplement (total £3418 for 2) we are looking at £341.80 deposit if they have PE. This gives us an average of £530.70 deposit and we know that many of the deposits will not be 10% (my own is £300, Pastyfeet's was £200) but for this exercise we will work on 10%. If every one of those 2,520 people were given back their deposits P&O refunds £1,337,364 in full to the PE passengers across the season. We have therefore already refunded/awarded £1,030,680 already refunded £189,000 in OBC granted If we allow free cancellation of PE passengers we can add at a rough estimate another £1,337,364 to those figures. Faced with these losses which are at the least £1,219,680 adding a rough estimated further £1,337,364 to the loss is inevitably going to be fought. What P&O now need to consider is whether the damage to their brand and the confidence of the future passenger and travel agents is worth this £1.3m or so. Answers on a postcard ... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevcharben Posted September 30, 2023 #477 Share Posted September 30, 2023 I have tried to book PE on my cruise in Sept, unfortuantely it is full, does that mean I would be entitled to a refund of my deposit? Will it stop me going? No but that is my choice, I am 6'2" and will just have to live with it. I fully understand those for 'medical' reasons who need more room Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zap99 Posted September 30, 2023 #478 Share Posted September 30, 2023 8 minutes ago, kevcharben said: I have tried to book PE on my cruise in Sept, unfortuantely it is full, does that mean I would be entitled to a refund of my deposit? Will it stop me going? No but that is my choice, I am 6'2" and will just have to live with it. I fully understand those for 'medical' reasons who need more room If you tried to book PE and it was full, what deposit ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denarius Posted September 30, 2023 #479 Share Posted September 30, 2023 1 hour ago, zap99 said: Give you the option to cancel the booking and have all money refunded. I agree. I had a similar situation earlier this year. I had booked a river fly cruise which included only provisional flight details because at the time I booked the flight schedule was yet to be confirmed by the airline. Unfortunately the airline withdrew the service which meant that the river cruise company had to source an alternative flight with another airline. The only flight available was at a very unsociable hour. In informing us of this, they asked us to confirm that we accepted the change and offered cancelation with a full refund of monies paid if we did not. Contractually I am not sure that they were obliged to do this, but I am sure that in customer and public relations terms it was the right thing to do. In the event I understand that most of us accepted the change but the fact that we had the option not to do so meant that the company avoided bad publicity. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Megabear2 Posted September 30, 2023 #480 Share Posted September 30, 2023 16 minutes ago, zap99 said: If you tried to book PE and it was full, what deposit ?. This must be a European flu cruise and therefore assumedly it will be at the seat booking/picking stage rather than booking PE at the time of booking with P&O? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunlog Posted September 30, 2023 #481 Share Posted September 30, 2023 31 minutes ago, Megabear2 said: As I said way back in this thread the real conundrum is not those individuals who are already booked but the effect this decision will have to future bookings, ie the cruises still on sale - and there's a lot of them. Once the dust has settled on the bookings made P&O is clearly going to have customers having a crisis of confidence in them. The sensible thing to do would be to put their hands up, say we are sorry for how we handled it both with the agents and those booked. I've just revisited the list of flights involved: there appear to be 40 in total. If every PE seat has been booked on these flights (and I doubt that is the case) we are looking at 63 passengers per flight which means we have a maximum 2,520 people affected. If each person has paid in full their £409 supplement, again doubtful, P&O have already committed to refund £1,030,680 due to not being able to offer this cabin. Given that a large number of these 2,520 people won't have paid their balance we are looking at most being on a 10% deposit. Using my own cruise as an example at a cost of £6378 plus £818 PE supplement (total £7196 for 2) we are looking at £719.60 deposit for PE customers and using £1,300 as the entry cost for a basic inside saver cabin plus £818 PE supplement (total £3418 for 2) we are looking at £341.80 deposit if they have PE. This gives us an average of £530.70 deposit and we know that many of the deposits will not be 10% (my own is £300, Pastyfeet's was £200) but for this exercise we will work on 10%. If every one of those 2,520 people were given back their deposits P&O refunds £1,337,364 in full to the PE passengers across the season. We have therefore already refunded/awarded £1,030,680 already refunded £189,000 in OBC granted If we allow free cancellation of PE passengers we can add at a rough estimate another £1,337,364 to those figures. Faced with these losses which are at the least £1,219,680 adding a rough estimated further £1,337,364 to the loss is inevitably going to be fought. What P&O now need to consider is whether the damage to their brand and the confidence of the future passenger and travel agents is worth this £1.3m or so. Answers on a postcard ... We’ve been waiting for November 2025 prices to come out for Caribbean had such a lovely time last year and enjoyed premium economy. Such a shame they did this huge mistake we will now not be booking our 2025 fly cruise with them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlaMarie Posted September 30, 2023 #482 Share Posted September 30, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Denarius said: I agree. I had a similar situation earlier this year. I had booked a river fly cruise which included only provisional flight details because at the time I booked the flight schedule was yet to be confirmed by the airline. Unfortunately the airline withdrew the service which meant that the river cruise company had to source an alternative flight with another airline. The only flight available was at a very unsociable hour. In informing us of this, they asked us to confirm that we accepted the change and offered cancelation with a full refund of monies paid if we did not. Contractually I am not sure that they were obliged to do this, but I am sure that in customer and public relations terms it was the right thing to do. In the event I understand that most of us accepted the change but the fact that we had the option not to do so meant that the company avoided bad publicity. This is the difference in handling something well, sensibly and with alot of consideration to the passengers. The passenger then appreciates the situation and the gestures/options from the company. P&O don't seem to get this right. It is a toss up between whether they don't want to and expect the passenger to accept any changes, or because they just don't know how to. Edited September 30, 2023 by CarlaMarie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zap99 Posted September 30, 2023 #483 Share Posted September 30, 2023 7 minutes ago, Megabear2 said: This must be a European flu cruise and therefore assumedly it will be at the seat booking/picking stage rather than booking PE at the time of booking with P&O? European fly cruises with P&O don't offer PE, as far as I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollag Posted September 30, 2023 #484 Share Posted September 30, 2023 34 minutes ago, zap99 said: P&O are not providing a service that they agreed. Easy for them to fix. Refund deposit. Your disparaging description of folk is not warranted. Pot,kettle,black springs to mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zap99 Posted September 30, 2023 #485 Share Posted September 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, Mollag said: Pot,kettle,black springs to mind Is that like paper, rock, scissors?🤫 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majortom10 Posted September 30, 2023 #486 Share Posted September 30, 2023 I don't understand how P&O go from one corporate disaster to the next on a very regular basis and treat their loyal customers with contempt yet people still book with them. Open your eyes there are plenty of cruise lines who would willingly accept your business and not treat you the same way as P&O do. The worst of it all the numpty in charge gets promoted while talking twaddle to the press the most famous one i.e 99.9%. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GINGERWILDCAT Posted September 30, 2023 #487 Share Posted September 30, 2023 39 minutes ago, zap99 said: P&O are not providing a service that they agreed. Easy for them to fix. Refund deposit. Your disparaging description of folk is not warranted. I’m getting everything I paid for 🤷♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zap99 Posted September 30, 2023 #488 Share Posted September 30, 2023 1 minute ago, GINGERWILDCAT said: I’m getting everything I paid for 🤷♂️ I cancelled mine, so will get everything I'm expecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zap99 Posted September 30, 2023 #489 Share Posted September 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, majortom10 said: I don't understand how P&O go from one corporate disaster to the next on a very regular basis and treat their loyal customers with contempt yet people still book with them. Open your eyes there are plenty of cruise lines who would willingly accept your business and not treat you the same way as P&O do. The worst of it all the numpty in charge gets promoted while talking twaddle to the press the most famous one i.e 99.9%. We have an Arvia cruise booked for April, but as we could do with a few more NCL/RCI points, that may be it for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zap99 Posted September 30, 2023 #490 Share Posted September 30, 2023 29 minutes ago, Denarius said: I agree. I had a similar situation earlier this year. I had booked a river fly cruise which included only provisional flight details because at the time I booked the flight schedule was yet to be confirmed by the airline. Unfortunately the airline withdrew the service which meant that the river cruise company had to source an alternative flight with another airline. The only flight available was at a very unsociable hour. In informing us of this, they asked us to confirm that we accepted the change and offered cancelation with a full refund of monies paid if we did not. Contractually I am not sure that they were obliged to do this, but I am sure that in customer and public relations terms it was the right thing to do. In the event I understand that most of us accepted the change but the fact that we had the option not to do so meant that the company avoided bad publicity. We booked a tour of Nova Scotia with Globus flying direct to Halifax. When all the 737max's were grounded, Globus emailed me asking if I would like to cancel, or for them to arrange alternative flights via Toronto. We accepted their alternative and they got 2 happy customers, who have since booked with them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Megabear2 Posted September 30, 2023 #491 Share Posted September 30, 2023 19 minutes ago, zap99 said: European fly cruises with P&O don't offer PE, as far as I know. No but when you seat select some of the operators do so I assume he is referring to that. I was offered a supposed PE seat on TUI from Kefalonia, it was actually 2 rows of seats with extra legroom in rows 2 and 3. They charged £78 for the dubious privilege but thanks to a warning from Wowzz I didn't book it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suepugh Posted September 30, 2023 #492 Share Posted September 30, 2023 I wish that those who are either unaffected by the change, or unconcerned, would stop belittling those who have genuine worries. It’s just plain nasty. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zap99 Posted September 30, 2023 #493 Share Posted September 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, Megabear2 said: No but when you seat select some of the operators do so I assume he is referring to that. I was offered a supposed PE seat on TUI from Kefalonia, it was actually 2 rows of seats with extra legroom in rows 2 and 3. They charged £78 for the dubious privilege but thanks to a warning from Wowzz I didn't book it. We try and book the extra leg room seats on TUI. They have added a few more rows now. We fly with them on Monday. I think it was £18 per seat each way. To us that is well worth it. On BA club is a lot more than that, with not much, if any extra legroom. We did a fly cruise to Tenerife in February. Seat selection didn't charge extra for the ' good ' rows so we got extra legroom free. Makes a change to get one over P&O🤣 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Megabear2 Posted September 30, 2023 #494 Share Posted September 30, 2023 19 minutes ago, suepugh said: I wish that those who are either unaffected by the change, or unconcerned, would stop belittling those who have genuine worries. It’s just plain nasty. If you read the thread in its entirety most have great sympathy with those who have lost their PE seating. However all the worrying and upset is not unfortunately not going to change P&Os mind. As it stands they are it seems fulfilling their obligation in refunding the fare for the PE. Although it would be morally correct to allow free cancellation to those people they have chosen not to. It is their right under the contract. Pressure from travel agents and bad publicity may change their mind, although personally I doubt it. No one is being nasty, this is a site where P&O's actions, customer service etc is regularly discussed. I am one of those who is regularly in dispute on these boards over P&O's offering, believe me others knock me down regularly! They aren't being nasty just expressing their opinions. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanlyon Posted September 30, 2023 #495 Share Posted September 30, 2023 I really don't think this problem is down to P&O. They have been let down by the airline they originally planned to use. What are they supposed to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zap99 Posted September 30, 2023 #496 Share Posted September 30, 2023 51 minutes ago, Megabear2 said: If you read the thread in its entirety most have great sympathy with those who have lost their PE seating. However all the worrying and upset is not unfortunately not going to change P&Os mind. As it stands they are it seems fulfilling their obligation in refunding the fare for the PE. Although it would be morally correct to allow free cancellation to those people they have chosen not to. It is their right under the contract. Pressure from travel agents and bad publicity may change their mind, although personally I doubt it. No one is being nasty, this is a site where P&O's actions, customer service etc is regularly discussed. I am one of those who is regularly in dispute on these boards over P&O's offering, believe me others knock me down regularly! They aren't being nasty just expressing their opinions. You are right. The only real solution is to cancel this one and think very carefully about future bookings. There are a few nasty comments. For some folk no PE means no flight. Us included. That's why we cancelled. The base price for the cruise is now about £1,000 less + the PE premium. Still not tempted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Interestedcruisefan Posted September 30, 2023 #497 Share Posted September 30, 2023 2 hours ago, majortom10 said: I don't understand how P&O go from one corporate disaster to the next on a very regular basis and treat their loyal customers with contempt yet people still book with them. Open your eyes there are plenty of cruise lines who would willingly accept your business and not treat you the same way as P&O do. The worst of it all the numpty in charge gets promoted while talking twaddle to the press the most famous one i.e 99.9%. Because the guy making the decisions is young and out of his depth 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Interestedcruisefan Posted September 30, 2023 #498 Share Posted September 30, 2023 28 minutes ago, jeanlyon said: I really don't think this problem is down to P&O. They have been let down by the airline they originally planned to use. What are they supposed to do? Handle it better, communicate it better IMO 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Megabear2 Posted September 30, 2023 #499 Share Posted September 30, 2023 25 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said: Handle it better, communicate it better IMO Have you found outif you're on it yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Interestedcruisefan Posted September 30, 2023 #500 Share Posted September 30, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Megabear2 said: Have you found outif you're on it yet? Honest answer is I've not checked. It's not a big concern to me and I've been busy lately I'm thinking I will be and if I find out I'm not it's a bonus Will check next few days though Wouldnt actually mind being a guinea pig for them and reporting back how bad (or good) it is compared to normal Can't be anywhere as good as a dreamliner though But even on a dreamliner flights are just something I endure rather than enjoy Edited September 30, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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