Sales Volume Very Low?

[Nashna]

It appears that Explora Journeys is targeting the upscale working luxury market. This market is not likely to take 14- to 21-day sailings. I've had difficulty finding MSC YC and Explora itineraries that fit my needs. Perhaps they will have one ship dedicated to longer itineraries when they get more than three ships.

[Waltershipman]

16 minutes ago, Nashna said:

It appears that Explora Journeys is targeting the upscale working luxury market. This market is not likely to take 14- to 21-day sailings. I've had difficulty finding MSC YC and Explora itineraries that fit my needs. Perhaps they will have one ship dedicated to longer itineraries when they get more than three ships.

Great Nancy 

 

We booked an 8 night 2025 cruise and will spend a few nights in Miami

 

All the best to you let us know about your EJ further thoughts

[Waltershipman]

19 minutes ago, Nashna said:

It appears that Explora Journeys is targeting the upscale working luxury market. This market is not likely to take 14- to 21-day sailings. I've had difficulty finding MSC YC and Explora itineraries that fit my needs. Perhaps they will have one ship dedicated to longer itineraries when they get more than three ships.

Will also attract a younger group of passegers 

[Nashna]

We are active 76 and 78-year-olds.  If we are lucky, we have another five years of cruising.  We are a short-term target for the cruise lines. Explora is wise to anticipate the next generation of luxury cruisers.  The cruisers who want the 7–10-night cruise today will be sailing on the 14-day plus cruises in ten years.  It will be interesting to see if all the new luxury cruise lines will have enough clientele to be successful. 

[Waltershipman]

7 minutes ago, Nashna said:

We are active 76 and 78-year-olds.  If we are lucky, we have another five years of cruising.  We are a short-term target for the cruise lines. Explora is wise to anticipate the next generation of luxury cruisers.  The cruisers who want the 7–10-night cruise today will be sailing on the 14-day plus cruises in ten years.  It will be interesting to see if all the new luxury cruise lines will have enough clientele to be successful. 

All I can say as a former passenger it's pretty darn great

[no1talks]

1 hour ago, Whipsnade said:

"But there seem to always be another larger cohort of fossils who appreciate and can afford luxury."

 

The upcoming cohort is Gen-X and there are far fewer of them than the cohorts that supported luxury cruising these many years.

 

Also, if the financial projections are even somewhat accurate, Gen-X will have significantly less disposable income in their golden years than their predecessors.

[peder]

Top quartile of millennials are probably doing better than any generation's top quartile before them. Many have been invested in the stock market since '08/'09 and have basically enjoyed an uninterrupted bull market for 15 years. Many in that group consider $QQQ to be as safe as treasuries 😅

 

So that's a pretty big group of consumers that is still largely untapped by the cruise industry.

 

I think these folks on the YouTube "Live a Little" channel are Explora's target: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPBe3LRPhZw

 

[no1talks]

24 minutes ago, peder said:

"Top quartile of millennials are probably doing better than any generation's top quartile before them."

But are they? Or, are they putting on a bougie lifestyle as the Potemkin village of their generation?

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/25/affluent-millennials-more-likely-to-exaggerate-finances-to-appear-wealthy.html

[peder]

39 minutes ago, no1talks said:

But are they? Or, are they putting on a bougie lifestyle as the Potemkin village of their generation?

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/25/affluent-millennials-more-likely-to-exaggerate-finances-to-appear-wealthy.html

 

 

This tweet is just looking at median. Top quartile I think would be even more exaggerated. Incomes for top millennial earners have been very high.

[no1talks]

37 minutes ago, peder said:

"Incomes for top millennial earners have been very high."

Their student loan debt is also very high. Their retirement savings is also rather low when compared to the traditional bench marks of 1x annual income by age 30 and 3x by age 40.

I see too little black ink to offset the red in the overall cohort. Millenials are unlikely to keep luxury cruising from undergoing some amount of contraction (fewer lines and/or fewer ships) once too many of the Boomers have disembarked for last time. 

[2SailingNomads]

2 hours ago, no1talks said:

Their student loan debt is also very high. Their retirement savings is also rather low when compared to the traditional bench marks of 1x annual income by age 30 and 3x by age 40.

I see too little black ink to offset the red in the overall cohort. Millenials are unlikely to keep luxury cruising from undergoing some amount of contraction (fewer lines and/or fewer ships) once too many of the Boomers have disembarked for last time. 

I agree but the cruise lines keep practicing the "if you build it they will come" mentality.  For MSC they can build 6 ships that sail basically empty with how much the parent company makes per day on the super profitable cargo business but other lines will likely be in trouble with all the new product coming online.  (See expedition ships now a saturated market).Anyone else getting daily offers from Atlas??? Too cheap to understand how they can be profitable.

[frankhi]

To me low occupancy is a plus, and I think their prices are the same as just a room at a resort hotel and often less.

Edited May 9 by frankhi

[ksmcali]

This has been a very interesting thread.  We (my husband and I) are Gen-X and have never sailed a luxury line....yet!  We started on Carnival long ago for our honeymoon, tried Holland America and Royal Caribbean, before migrating to Norwegian for many cruises in The Haven there.  It provided a level of luxury for us that still presented lots of kid friendly activities for our daughter.  Most recently, as our daughter is now older and about to graduate high school, we've moved over to Celebrity in upper level suites in The Retreat.  Again, it provides an overall family fit for us at this point in our life.  But, daughter is about to head off to college and we will be empty nesters able to travel anytime of the year, although as mentioned earlier, likely not for more than 10ish days, since hubby still does have a job.  We're mid-40s looking for a luxury line that we can enjoy, but don't want to be the "youngsters" onboard.  I certainly don't mind an older demographic, but prefer not to be the anomaly, which was the case for us when we sailed Holland America.

 

I had originally planned for Oceania to be our first "Just You and Me Again" luxury cruise, as it seems to fit our profile most.  But, Explora Journey has piqued my interest.  Certainly after reading through this thread, I do feel like we may be their target demographic.  The cabins certainly look attractive and shorter 7-day itineraries (few and far between on other luxury brands) fits our needs, as it allows for us to better squeeze it into his work schedule.  I've been following along with reviews since the ship set sail and was a little put off by the negative comments, but was hesitantly optimistic that the kinks would get worked out.  I popped over here today specifically because some else posted on the Celebrity boards how much they enjoyed their Explora Journey cruise.  Thank you all for the advisement!  I think I'll keep a close watch on EJ 2025 itineraries!

[Waltershipman]

58 minutes ago, ksmcali said:

This has been a very interesting thread.  We (my husband and I) are Gen-X and have never sailed a luxury line....yet!  We started on Carnival long ago for our honeymoon, tried Holland America and Royal Caribbean, before migrating to Norwegian for many cruises in The Haven there.  It provided a level of luxury for us that still presented lots of kid friendly activities for our daughter.  Most recently, as our daughter is now older and about to graduate high school, we've moved over to Celebrity in upper level suites in The Retreat.  Again, it provides an overall family fit for us at this point in our life.  But, daughter is about to head off to college and we will be empty nesters able to travel anytime of the year, although as mentioned earlier, likely not for more than 10ish days, since hubby still does have a job.  We're mid-40s looking for a luxury line that we can enjoy, but don't want to be the "youngsters" onboard.  I certainly don't mind an older demographic, but prefer not to be the anomaly, which was the case for us when we sailed Holland America.

 

I had originally planned for Oceania to be our first "Just You and Me Again" luxury cruise, as it seems to fit our profile most.  But, Explora Journey has piqued my interest.  Certainly after reading through this thread, I do feel like we may be their target demographic.  The cabins certainly look attractive and shorter 7-day itineraries (few and far between on other luxury brands) fits our needs, as it allows for us to better squeeze it into his work schedule.  I've been following along with reviews since the ship set sail and was a little put off by the negative comments, but was hesitantly optimistic that the kinks would get worked out.  I popped over here today specifically because some else posted on the Celebrity boards how much they enjoyed their Explora Journey cruise.  Thank you all for the advisement!  I think I'll keep a close watch on EJ 2025 itineraries!

Having sailed on both Explora Journeys and recently on Oceania Vista I am able to report that at least on our cruises there was a different passenger demographic. On EJ there were generally older passengers me included in 70s however very active. On O there were a significant larger number of older  passegers some with mobility issues which is not a judgement nor problem just true. One of our table mates on O was a 90 year old man who still worked was very active and an absolute gem. Age is relative.  I prefer nice kind folks of any age.

[Waltershipman]

1 hour ago, ksmcali said:

This has been a very interesting thread.  We (my husband and I) are Gen-X and have never sailed a luxury line....yet!  We started on Carnival long ago for our honeymoon, tried Holland America and Royal Caribbean, before migrating to Norwegian for many cruises in The Haven there.  It provided a level of luxury for us that still presented lots of kid friendly activities for our daughter.  Most recently, as our daughter is now older and about to graduate high school, we've moved over to Celebrity in upper level suites in The Retreat.  Again, it provides an overall family fit for us at this point in our life.  But, daughter is about to head off to college and we will be empty nesters able to travel anytime of the year, although as mentioned earlier, likely not for more than 10ish days, since hubby still does have a job.  We're mid-40s looking for a luxury line that we can enjoy, but don't want to be the "youngsters" onboard.  I certainly don't mind an older demographic, but prefer not to be the anomaly, which was the case for us when we sailed Holland America.

 

I had originally planned for Oceania to be our first "Just You and Me Again" luxury cruise, as it seems to fit our profile most.  But, Explora Journey has piqued my interest.  Certainly after reading through this thread, I do feel like we may be their target demographic.  The cabins certainly look attractive and shorter 7-day itineraries (few and far between on other luxury brands) fits our needs, as it allows for us to better squeeze it into his work schedule.  I've been following along with reviews since the ship set sail and was a little put off by the negative comments, but was hesitantly optimistic that the kinks would get worked out.  I popped over here today specifically because some else posted on the Celebrity boards how much they enjoyed their Explora Journey cruise.  Thank you all for the advisement!  I think I'll keep a close watch on EJ 2025 itineraries!

Forgot to mention that Explora journeys is much more luxurious 

[mnocket]

19 hours ago, Waltershipman said:

Having sailed on both Explora Journeys and recently on Oceania Vista I am able to report that at least on our cruises there was a different passenger demographic. On EJ there were generally older passengers me included in 70s however very active. On O there were a significant larger number of older  passegers some with mobility issues which is not a judgement nor problem just true. One of our table mates on O was a 90 year old man who still worked was very active and an absolute gem. Age is relative.  I prefer nice kind folks of any age.

Am I getting this right?  The passengers on O tend to be older and more suffer mobility issues? Are the O demographics similar to Holland America?

[Waltershipman]

38 minutes ago, mnocket said:

Am I getting this right?  The passengers on O tend to be older and more suffer mobility issues? Are the O demographics similar to Holland America?

Sort of yes passengers on O at least in our case significantly older than EJ with lots of mobility issues on O. It's been many years since we sailed on HAL which at that time had even older passengers than O with even more mobility issues. Ej had a more robust group although many older as well but no visibility mobility issues.

There were some younger passengers on O but not many and it was generally an older group 

Hope that clarifies. Enjoy 

[Savblanc1]

My husband and I have booked Explora next year for a Greece itinerary.  We were loyal to Royal for many years (in suites) and then have moved across to MSC YC (just done our 8th, and we love YC) but are keen try a smaller ship and definitely Explorer!  We will both be 60 next year,  Can't wait (not to be 60!!! lol) but for the cruise!! 

Edited May 10 by Savblanc1

[rrrrtt]

There's a good number of young pax (20s to 40s) on the reportedly 560 pax current short sailing. And a good number of older pax some of which are able but may not be able to handle longer distances.  Certainly a younger average age than longer Holland America cruises and maybe same as a long Ponant one (my only other higher end cruise experience).

Edited May 10 by rrrrtt

[HappyInVan]

18 hours ago, rrrrtt said:

There's a good number of young pax (20s to 40s) on the reportedly 560 pax current short sailing.    

 

I can confirm that there are many travel agents and influencer guest of Explora on some sailings. I stumbled.into the tail end of a private function. Turns out that there about 150 pax in their 20s and middle age in that meeting.

 

BTW the guy holding the meeting mentioned...

 

They had no plans for a loyalty program. A 5% discount was available when booked on a ship. 

 

Not interested in large groups. Max in his opinion was 20 total.

 

Then, he mentioned to the influencers that there was one free host room for every 10 paid bookings. And so on.

 

I was not spying on them!

Edited May 11 by HappyInVan

[2SailingNomads]

We had heard there were going to be a large contingent of travel agents for the segment after Vancouver.  Maybe TA's and so called influencers are their true market. 😁 I know my TA was on for a 5 day cruise several months ago.  

 

Interesting about the 5% discount, we were on for 18 days and never received anything mentioning it.  On other lines you usually get, more than once, a note in your suite offering an on-board booking discount.  Not sure why they think a loyalty program is a bad idea, I like to obtain perks after spending some amount of $ with a company - unlimited laundry for example on Seabourn.  Discounts on revenue wines, etc.  

[RJ2002]

2 hours ago, 2SailingNomads said:

We had heard there were going to be a large contingent of travel agents for the segment after Vancouver.  Maybe TA's and so called influencers are their true market. 😁 I know my TA was on for a 5 day cruise several months ago.  

 

Interesting about the 5% discount, we were on for 18 days and never received anything mentioning it.  On other lines you usually get, more than once, a note in your suite offering an on-board booking discount.  Not sure why they think a loyalty program is a bad idea, I like to obtain perks after spending some amount of $ with a company - unlimited laundry for example on Seabourn.  Discounts on revenue wines, etc.  

 

I am currently onboard, and the future cruise consultant confirmed to me that there is a 5% discount for onboard bookings.   Interestingly, the following day when we were having pre-dinner drinks in the Explora Lounge, we overheard a group of travel advisors discussing that there was an additional 5% being offered.  Perhaps that is only for travel types….  Who knows?   I have not attempted to clarify with the onboard consultant as there are no current itineraries that interest me.  
 

I do find it odd that there has been no promotion of future cruise bookings at all.  

Edited May 11 by RJ2002

[johng75370]

9 hours ago, 2SailingNomads said:

Not sure why they think a loyalty program is a bad idea,

It costs money to do it right; I think financial realities are setting in now that the second ship is about to launch, and the first has not perhaps delivered the sales volume they planned on.  

 

9 hours ago, 2SailingNomads said:

Discounts on revenue wines, etc.  

With Seabourn the revenue wines are reasonably priced to begin with, and our loyalty discount often brings the price to similar or less than what we can get retail locally.  Explora’s revenue wine list is a lot more pricey, and they likely need that revenue and won’t cut into it through loyalty or “wine package” discounts.  

Edited May 12 by johng75370

[rrrrtt]

41 minutes ago, johng75370 said:

Explora’s revenue wine list is a lot more pricey, and they likely need that revenue and won’t cut into it through loyalty or “wine package” discounts.  

 

European mentality often features a deep loathing to cut prices as it cheapens the product.  Occasionally you see a slip up which is how I got a Ponant cruise for an unbelievable USD 130 pp of or some such and this current Explora cruise ~USD360 pp pd.   Certainly raise prices closer to cruise date no matter how empty the ship is (at least for this current cruise).

[rrrrtt]

Looks like they do discount wine. Just got handed this in the yacht club