A couple of general questions

[Vineyard View]

7 minutes ago, Vallesan said:

We have not traveled  to the US that many times and it has only been in Florida. I assume your pre-cruise stay wasn’t much better than ours! As you say it could very well be down to having very different social cultures. 
 

Glad you enjoyed your cruise on Vista!

Maybe sometime you can have the opportunity to experience the States in other geographies. Even within the United States, we tend to have varying cultures. I traveled a lot when I was working. Various regions within our country can be quite different in many different ways. 

[clo]

10 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

“Seems to be” (Americans) is your unsubstantiated claim and nothing more. 

In any case, the fact remains that all money is money and, personally, I’ve never seen any service person refuse a gratuity consisting of US $.

 

In fact, I remember one experience many years ago in Athens, Greece where I asked a cab driver how he preferred to be paid during a time when the Greek economy was having a difficult time. His answer? “US $ if you’ve got them.”

I've given this more thought and perhaps you're most talking about ship staff and I'm not at all. Plus having thought about this I realize that our recent travel - and not so recent - has been in Central and South America and SE Asia. I'm dropping this now. It's something I feel quite strongly about and won't be changing my mind.

[clo]

40 minutes ago, Vallesan said:

We actually had an amazing time in Sarasota several years ago but that was a place we did ‘pick’!

OT but that put a smile on my face. Sarasota is where I learned to swim. 🙂 

[Vallesan]

7 minutes ago, Vineyard View said:

Vallesan, it does sound like you ran into a few off-putting situations. I am sorry you experienced that. It can happen anywhere, in any country. It can plant an image in our minds when that happens. My brother years ago had a bad experience in a country in Europe, and he did not want to return. He was a bit hard headed though. When we went to the same country and had a wonderful time, shared our experience with him, he still would not change his opinion. (Not suggesting that is you). 
Tipping in the States is a culture that has been in place for a long time. Right or wrong. Mostly it occurs because those servers really do rely on that income. We tip based on the level of service. 
 

Thank you!

 

Yes it can happen anywhere, I agree. I do understand the nature of tipping in the US and on that we did tip the very pleasant lady who served us that evening. But, quite frankly tipping somebody who ‘just happened to work there’, who didn’t even pour a glass of water was one step too far! I’m sure most people would agree with that.

[Flatbush Flyer]

42 minutes ago, Vallesan said:

I was just relating ‘my experience’.

 

I don’t judge the entire country by my trip to Miami, which actually I didn’t  ’pick’, rather it was ‘picked’ for me, as that’s where the cruise was departing from!

 

We actually had an amazing time in Sarasota several years ago but that was a place we did ‘pick’!

You may want to reread your post: “Anyway, the whole experience left us less than happy to return to the US. Not sure we would ever get used to the rudeness in general and the ‘tipping’ culture in particular.”

[Vallesan]

1 minute ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

You may want to reread your post: “Anyway, the whole experience left us less than happy to return to the US. Not sure we would ever get used to the rudeness in general and the ‘tipping’ culture in particular.”

Not really. As I have said anyone having a poor experience, anywhere, is not going to repeat it when their are so many choices.

 

Please don’t take this so personally. Maybe we could just stop the ‘nit picking’ and move on. In general I’ve found your posts interesting and informative. Let’s not spoil things.

[Harters]

1 hour ago, Vallesan said:

I assume your pre-cruise stay wasn’t much better than ours!

It was fine. We stayed the two nights to avoid any possible SNAFU with flights. Also meant we'd adjusted to local time by the time we were boarding the ship. We had a nice time - walked round the botanical gardens which were lovely. Walked on the Beach. Bought sandwiches for lunch and ate them in a park opposite the hotel. A couple of nice dinners. 

 

Our next cruise (2025) is a Southampton round trip so no flights involved which really appeals. Booked it on board and am in negotiation with the TA you hinted at a while back (and a couple of others). 

[Vallesan]

6 minutes ago, Harters said:

It was fine. We stayed the two nights to avoid any possible SNAFU with flights. Also meant we'd adjusted to local time by the time we were boarding the ship. We had a nice time - walked round the botanical gardens which were lovely. Walked on the Beach. Bought sandwiches for lunch and ate them in a park opposite the hotel. A couple of nice dinners. 

 

Our next cruise (2025) is a Southampton round trip so no flights involved which really appeals. Booked it on board and am in negotiation with the TA you hinted at a while back (and a couple of others). 

Our TA only deals with cruise companies and only does cruise line flights. I always book my own anyway. But for cruise without flight you might find they come out tops. 
 

We recently had to cancel a cruise within 48hrs to get just a 90% cancellation fee. Rang on a Sunday, Monday was the deadline. Monday cruise cancelled, cancellation invoice Tuesday and also a refund from the cruise line appeared immediately.  Very impressed! So many companies are great when you book but not so great when you need to change or cancel!

[Techno123]

1 hour ago, Vallesan said:

 

Please don’t take this so personally. Maybe we could just stop the ‘nit picking’ and move on. In general I’ve found your posts interesting and informative. Let’s not spoil things.

@Vallesan I am really sorry - I think this is my fault as I asked you to describe your bad experience.

 

And to those that live in the States, most other countries do find your tipping culture discombobulating, particularly as many are not aware quite how poorly serving staff are paid in some states, however, the majority of us respect the culture, even though, as I said in a previous post I still think it is the responsibility of the employer to pay the staff a living wage.

 

@Vineyard View hit the nail on the head when they described the increased expectations of staff in other countries that people from the US will be very generous tippers, that's fine, it's your money but unfortunately it has a negative impact for people who live there or are visiting from other countries as there is now a huge expectation on us to give the same level of gratuity - just ask an Aussie how annoying they find it 😜😜

Edited April 14 by Techno123

[Harters]

2 hours ago, Vineyard View said:

When we travel to another country, we try to understand what is expected and standard in tipping

Agreed. It's almost a duty to try and understand the place.  you're visiting. 

 

I have a friend who practices law in Kentucky. Much of his practice relates to "workers rights". He explained the need to tip in accordance with American norms, otherwise you can actively financially harm the server. My recollection of what he said was that your tax authorities would assess a server's income tax liability partly based on the assumption of how much they are likely to have earned in tips. So, at its most basic, let's say I tipped at the usual UK rate of 10%, the tax authority may well assume that,  for the hours worked over the period, the server would have received tips at the usual American 20% going rate and tax accordingly. 

 

FWIW, I used to play on a now defunct food forum where most contributors were American. Tipping often cropped up as a subject for angst and the need to be seen to be doing the right thing. Not something that would ever happen on a European led forum. Different cultures as I said. 

 

It can be tricky in Europe. There isnt a common tipping practice. Some countries have a tipping culture, other don't . Belgium is a country I've visited regularly and it used to have both cultures. In the French speaking parts, tips were not expected, as in France. But, in the Dutch speaking parts, tips or around 10% were common as then in the Netherlands. The area I visited was near the "border" between the two language areas, so it was always necessary to know exactly where you were when you stopped for lunch. 

Edited April 14 by Harters

[daydreamer62]

5 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Response #23.

Did you even read my reply? When was your last experience tipping in USD in New Zealand???????. Banks in New Zealand do NOT handle foreign exchange ( since at least 2019). A few dollars in foreign currency isn't worth anything. Nothing at all because the fees to exchange are higher than the value of the money.  If you truly value good service perhaps some respect for the person you are supposedly tipping might be more appreciated than your money in foreign currency . 

[iowananny]

I wish there was a clear answer to tipping.  We just returned from a four-night trip to Mexico City.  It was arranged by a tour company.  We were afraid to visit Mexico City because of the dangerous conditions in Mexico. We had been hoodwinked.  No one ever even looked like they wanted to kidnap us and there were not criminals around every corner. It's a vibrant fun city with a lot to do but enough of that I'm talking tipping.

 

The tour company sent us an email with the expected tipping for everyone from porters to drivers to tour guides.  They said to use US dollars and so we did.  No one complained and seemed happy with the amounts the company had recommended.  They were reasonable and we felt they were fair.  We never converted any money into a peso which was nice as we didn't come home with a few extras with no place to use them.  This is not the first country we've visited where the dollar is not just welcome but preferred.  

 

We always try to do a little research before we visit a foreign country.  With ATMs everywhere it's easy to convert a little money into the local currency at little cost but in today's world a credit card seems to be the answer.  98% of all transactions in Sweden are done electronically.  You want a bottle of water, give them your card.  They won't blink an eye, it's what they expect.

 

Afte covid, tipping in the US has become crazy.  Last summer I bought some sweet corn from a vendor at the local gas station.  They had a tip jar set out.  I'm not going to give a tip to someone for putting four ears of corn in a bag.  But maybe some see the jar and feel obligated to do so.  To each their own.

 

I especially dislike those who demand a tip.  I hate embarking in Miami where you're told you won't receive your luggage if you don't give the porters money.  This is a case where tipping is just plain wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

[FetaCheese]

To our British and Global friends on CC:

 

Please come and visit Philly -- Philadelphia.  Remember, we are the city of "Brotherly Love" and "Sisterly Affection" !

[Kay S]

If tipping is a problem for you, don't tip.  My French nephew always gets after my husband for tipping in Europe.  My husband is a tipper.  His attitude is that the server (bellboy, etc.) needs the few dollars more than he does.  So when we are in Europe (where the nephew lives, as well as more of the extended family) it's always a tussle between my nephew (French-born culture) and my husband (American-born culture) when eating at a restaurant.  (I'm Canadian. 😄)

 

BTW, rudeness knows no boundaries.  Rudest treatment I ever got was in Rome, and even in polite Toronto, you will encounter it. 

[osandomir]

3 hours ago, daydreamer62 said:

Did you even read my reply? When was your last experience tipping in USD in New Zealand???????. Banks in New Zealand do NOT handle foreign exchange ( since at least 2019). A few dollars in foreign currency isn't worth anything. Nothing at all because the fees to exchange are higher than the value of the money.  If you truly value good service perhaps some respect for the person you are supposedly tipping might be more appreciated than your money in foreign currency . 

If I remember correctly tips were neither required nor suggested when we visited New Zealand years ago.

Edited April 14 by osandomir

[daydreamer62]

14 minutes ago, osandomir said:

If I remember correctly tips were neither required nor suggested when we visited New Zealand years ago.

They generally aren't and the only place I have tipped in my life(at home)  is for exceptional service in a higher end restaurant, but it does seem to have become more prevalent in restaurants over the last few years to the point that some of the new electronic payment systems have an opt out button for tipping, kind of insinuating it's more normal than it actually is. This has caused some discussion and hasn't been well received by many. 

NZ has a fairly decent minimum wage that must be paid to all employees except to youth who can be on a special youth wage. However I'm sure nobody would be offended to receive extra, despite it being not required. A small amount of foreign currency though would have the same value as no tip at all! 

I don't understand the whole concept personally.. of expected tips or built in service charges.. if your business is a service industry then that should be taken into account in the costs and included in the food(or other) charges and then the employer should pay their staff well for good work and I  that's pretty much what it used to be like here but with globalisation there is always change good and bad . 

[jonthomas]

I'm also tired of hearing how hard someone is working. It is not the salt or coal mines.

 

Many of us that have or are making it on our own have or are working hard.

[clo]

5 hours ago, daydreamer62 said:

Did you even read my reply? When was your last experience tipping in USD in New Zealand???????. Banks in New Zealand do NOT handle foreign exchange ( since at least 2019). A few dollars in foreign currency isn't worth anything. Nothing at all because the fees to exchange are higher than the value of the money.  If you truly value good service perhaps some respect for the person you are supposedly tipping might be more appreciated than your money in foreign currency . 

I don't see a reply down thread. Too bad.

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 hours ago, daydreamer62 said:

A small amount of foreign currency though would have the same value as no tip at all!  

So, a fairly US standard 20% tip on a single $400 NZD meal (>$200 USD for that meal alone) would be $80 NZD, which at a local exchange bureau might conservatively translate to at least $40 USD. I’m pretty sure most wait staff (worldwide - not just NZ) with a bunch of those US $20 bills in hand would find the time and energy to go to the exchange bureau every once in awhile.

$$$ 😎

 

Just checked Travelex. Those two $20 USD bills would net someone “only” $70 NZD (17.5% tip on that $400 NZD tab). 
 

Case closed!

Edited April 15 by Flatbush Flyer

[Flatbush Flyer]

32 minutes ago, clo said:

I don't see a reply down thread. Too bad.

😳

Edited April 15 by Flatbush Flyer

[daydreamer62]

3 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

So, a fairly US standard 20% tip on a single $400 NZD meal (>$200 USD for that meal alone) would be $80 NZD, which at a local exchange bureau might conservatively translate to at least $40 USD. I’m pretty sure most wait staff (worldwide - not just NZ) with a bunch of those US $20 bills in hand would find the time and energy to go to the exchange bureau every once in awhile.

$$$ 😎

20% would be ridiculous and pretty much unheard of in NZ where a the minimum wage is $23.15 per hour even for wait staff.  But hey if you want to pay that then you do you . Regardless of the amount it would be far better received in $NZ no matter what the amount .You clearly think your time is more valuable than the staff serving you. You could have spent 2 minutes at an ATM getting NZD or pay by CC as most of us do. 

[clo]

1 minute ago, daydreamer62 said:

You could have spent 2 minutes at an ATM getting NZD or pay by CC as most of us do. 

And the odds are we make more money than they do. Maybe no cars, inadequate public transpo, etc. I've been doing this for decades and, as I've written, it's a real button issue for me. I don't always have to put MYSELF first.

[Flatbush Flyer]

3 minutes ago, daydreamer62 said:

20% would be ridiculous and pretty much unheard of in NZ where a the minimum wage is $23.15 per hour even for wait staff.  But hey if you want to pay that then you do you . Regardless of the amount it would be far better received in $NZ no matter what the amount .You clearly think your time is more valuable than the staff serving you. You could have spent 2 minutes at an ATM getting NZD or pay by CC as most of us do. 

ROTFL. 

What happened to “cultural sensitivity” being a two way street?

Twenty percent is not “ridiculous” to most cosmopolitan city residents in the US. And we’ll pay it to foreign wait staff if that’s what we want to do.

BTW, our minimum wage in California for even just a fast food worker is 

$20 USD/hour (about $35 NZD). And regular restaurant workers get at least $16 USD/hour (about $27 NZD) plus any locally mandated health et al. benefits coverage. 

 

And, finally, if anything is “ridiculous,” it’s the suggestion that a savvy NZ waiter would have ANY sort of “issue” with an apparently “generous” 17.5%+ tip. 

[daydreamer62]

1 minute ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

ROTFL. 

What happened to “cultural sensitivity” being a two way street?

Twenty percent is not “ridiculous” to most cosmopolitan city residents in the US. And we’ll pay it to foreign wait staff if that’s what we want to do.

BTW, our minimum wage in California for even just a fast food worker is 

$20 USD/hour (about $35 NZD). And regular restaurant workers get at least $16 USD/hour (about $27 NZD) plus any locally mandated health et al. benefits coverage. 

 

And, finally, if anything is “ridiculous,” it’s the suggestion that a savvy NZ waiter would have ANY sort of “issue” with an apparently “generous” 17.5%+ tip. 

You clearly want the last word so you can have it. I know exactly what the reaction to your actions would be but you clearly know better so was I said you do you. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

Just now, daydreamer62 said:

You clearly want the last word so you can have it. I know exactly what the reaction to your actions would be but you clearly know better so was I said you do you. 

Actually, it appears that YOU wanted the last word.😉