X Strikes Again....

[HeatherInFlorida]

LOL! Oh, well, I was close! Just a bit wordy:D . What else is new??? Thanks, Peaches!

 

Greg, I wouldn't count on it. Bet they do check, but certainly not sure enough to argue it;) . I honestly try to debate only issues of which I'm absolutely positive. Sometimes I fail at that attempt ... :o

 

In the end, we're all human and we all make mistakes. So I try really hard not to point fingers or be too critical because the next time it just might be me.

[Sayyadina]

I prefer Heinlein's Law: "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."

 

From one of my favorite show (Babylon 5):

 

Person #1: "They can't be THAT stupid, can they?"

Person #2: "Always bet on stupidity."

 

The second line has become one of my fallback lines. :)

 

I'm curious to see how this whole thing works out. It's been about a week, right? There's no excuse for this. Depending on how many people they may have 'accidentally' done this to over time, that can amount to quite a bit of interest they could have gained off of other people's money. Credit card companies have borne the brunt of class-action lawsuits for less.

 

Of course, that assumes a lot, too. Probably Marshall's Generalized Iceberg Theorem applies here best: "7/8ths of everything can't be seen."

[bookworm0911]

Isn't it getting just a little over the top to think this is a money-making scheme of X for a little extra interest income? If that was X's 'plan' it would have to involve an unbelievable number of pax every week of the year to make it worthwhile. That's less plausible than believing it was just an error, at least to me. ;)

[AirGorilla]

Not in my experience. At least, HAL doesn't. They make you pay up-front. Then, at the end of the cruise, you go to the front desk and they pay you back whatever overage you've paid them. :) Your onboard "credit" is equal to the amount you deposit.

 

RevNeal --

 

I am curious about the details of how this works. Would you mind telling

(a) How much per day do they require to allow this?

(b) If your charges exceed the amount deposited, do they let you know immediately, and ask for extra cash deposits? Or do they wait until the end of the cruise, and ask for more then?

 

Thank you!

[Sayyadina]

Isn't it getting just a little over the top to think this is a money-making scheme of X for a little extra interest income? If that was X's 'plan' it would have to involve an unbelievable number of pax every week of the year to make it worthwhile. That's less plausible than believing it was just an error, at least to me. ;)

 

Absolutely it is over the top to think it is a money making scheme. However, it has been done. Banks do it all the time. ;) I think it is just an error on Xs part.

[Navy_Chief]

I wonder how they manage to settle accounts with people who, like me, tend to pay in cash? When I disembark I settle my account, in cash, and that settlement is considered "final." Of course it is final ... I'm off the ship and they don't have a card of mine from which to snatch money.

 

Here Here! My way fo dealing with it exactly Greg, well said. No Card, no chance of charging me extra.

 

I imagine they are a lot more thorough with people who settle their accounts by cash.

 

They don't have to be, I'm thorough enough for the both of us. I track it too.

 

They don't bother checking your credit history or anything like that which was suggested. They don't look any further than the ID I present while handing them the signed AMEX Traveler's Cheque.

 

AirGorilla asked for some details: I drop a calculated amount on the account (generally $150 x the number of days sailing) and usually get some back when it's all said and done. If we spend over what we carry on the books, they tell you to add more, I pop back around to the Front Office with some more Traveler's Cheques and fork over some more. I have never been told that I have run out of money. I would know way before this as I total up the previous days reciepts over morning coffee. I also have never been "Back Billed" anything as the final bill says "Paid in Full". If a cruise line or any other business tries to collect after the fact, they better be prepared to take it to Small Claims Court. But they won't because I have a receipt that says "Paid In Full" they lose, next case..... :D

[xpcdoojk]

Here Here! My way fo dealing with it exactly Greg, well said. No Card, no chance of charging me extra.

 

 

 

They don't have to be, I'm thorough enough for the both of us. I track it too.

 

They don't bother checking your credit history or anything like that which was suggested. They don't look any further than the ID I present while handing them the signed AMEX Traveler's Cheque.

 

AirGorilla asked for some details: I drop a calculated amount on the account (generally $150 x the number of days sailing) and usually get some back when it's all said and done. If we spend over what we carry on the books, they tell you to add more, I pop back around to the Front Office with some more Traveler's Cheques and fork over some more. I have never been told that I have run out of money. I would know way before this as I total up the previous days reciepts over morning coffee. I also have never been "Back Billed" anything as the final bill says "Paid in Full". If a cruise line or any other business tries to collect after the fact, they better be prepared to take it to Small Claims Court. But they won't because I have a receipt that says "Paid In Full" they lose, next case.....

 

Sounds like you really know how to have a fun vacation!;) :D I don't usually plan on doing a lot of book keeping while on vacation. After 9 cruises on 4 different cruiselines I have yet to have the problem Brian had and I always give them a credit card, of course, I never left the ship after two days. I still don't understand that. ;)

 

I feel very bad for Brian, but I think his accounting of the experience is over the top. Which if I was in his position I might do as well, but....

 

jc

[Navy_Chief]

Just doing what the Navy taught me....attention to detail shipmate. Hard to get it out of your blood after retirement from the USN, just like the sea itself. Too bad I have to pay for the privailege of going to sea now but that's the way it is. I don't believe in credit cards, if I can't buy it, I can't afford it. The only credit card you'll find in my wallet is the one the company I work for now issued me for company travel :D As for having fun on my vacation, after the 5 minutes the "book keeping" takes, it's all up and let it roll:D The chances that what happened to Brian are no doubt few. Darn shame that it's dragging out so long and I don't blame him for being bitter over the whole thing. Show me one person on this board that would say "No Problem, keep that $1500"

[mechcc]

Show me one person on this board that would say "No Problem, keep that $1500"

 

Wouldn't be me that's for sure!

[sail7seas]

Nor me...or anyone I know!!!

 

[HeatherInFlorida]

Using a credit card does not indicate in any way that you don't have the cash or can't pay in cash.

 

Personally I don't carry cash. But when I charge on my credit card I immediately deduct it off my checking account because it's money spent. I don't owe a dime on any cc account.

 

There are a lot of reasons to use a credit card and one of them is proven right here on this thread. It's a safety device against just this sort of thing. Brian could call his CC company and they would not require him to pay that amount until the situation is straightened out. It would still be a pain but he wouldn't be sitting there $1500 in the hole!

 

So I wouldn't be so vehement in putting down credit card use. Not everyone uses them to be up to their ears in debt ... not to mention the ton of perks we get for using credit cards.

 

As far as I'm concerned, credit cards are the safest method of payment.

[Navy_Chief]

As I said, I don't believe in them. Never said anything against anyone who wants to use them. It's a free country, and I spent a fair amount of time to keep it that way so people can have that fredom to choose to live the way they want to, spend their cash, plastic or what ever you want the way they want want. :D Now try to take it away without just cause, that's not going to happen without trouble. Again, Brian, I hope you get through this ok shipmate.

[mechcc]

Using a credit card does not indicate in any way that you don't have the cash or can't pay in cash.

 

Personally I don't carry cash. But when I charge on my credit card I immediately deduct it off my checking account because it's money spent. I don't owe a dime on any cc account.

 

There are a lot of reasons to use a credit card and one of them is proven right here on this thread. It's a safety device against just this sort of thing. Brian could call his CC company and they would not require him to pay that amount until the situation is straightened out. It would still be a pain but he wouldn't be sitting there $1500 in the hole!

 

So I wouldn't be so vehement in putting down credit card use. Not everyone uses them to be up to their ears in debt ... not to mention the ton of perks we get for using credit cards.

 

As far as I'm concerned, credit cards are the safest method of payment.

 

And your method works for you which is just great. Won't argue with you on that is what you feel is best. But, the method of paying for a shipboard account is a personal decision and should be based on many, many different factors to include personal habits, self discipline, one time vacation of a lifetime, financed by a bonus check or inheritence, saved for a long time, normal yearly (or more often vacation), credit card's protection for disputed charges, gambling addiction, how much someone can really afford, and whatever.

 

I happen of come to a different conclusion from my experiences and Brian's fiasco. Take traveler's checks and do the whole shipboard account with cash. It isn't hard to keep track of onboard expenses and add as needed and get your cash back on disembarkation day. I have used the credit card, the debit card and the cash method on different cruises. Personally, I feel the cash way seems the safest way to protect your self against fruadulant charges as well as not having to write that large check to the credit card company when the bill comes due.

[RevNeal]

I am curious about the details of how this works. Would you mind telling

(a) How much per day do they require to allow this?

(b) If your charges exceed the amount deposited, do they let you know immediately, and ask for extra cash deposits? Or do they wait until the end of the cruise, and ask for more then?

 

(a) While they will allow you to set your your own per-day expense level, I would suggest basing your deposit upon the per-person/per-day pre-authorization amount that the Cruise Line would normally apply to a credit card to establish your Onboard Account credit line. In other words: for the average 7-day cruise for one person I would make a deposit of $70 x 7 = $490. I usually don't go over that level of onboard expense, and sometimes I come out a hundred or more less. On long cruises (15+ days) I will usually just deposit an initial $1000 and then check on my expenses at the half-way point to see how things are going.

 

(b) When your onboard expenses exceed the amount you have deposited the Front Office will put a notice in your mailbox letting you know that you need to come down and deposit more or, if you prefer, provide them a credit card number.

 

When you check-in at the pier and the shore staff asks you for your credit card for pre-authorization purposes just tell them that you intend to establish your account with a cash deposit at the front desk. They don't normally even blink at this ... though they might remind you to not forget to go to the front desk and make your deposit. I generally make my deposit in the form of travelers checks and I'll do this either the first evening, when the line whittles down to nothing, or the very next day. If I've called ship's services a few weeks prior to the cruise to make a deposit to my shipboard account, I don't feel pressured to make a full deposit once I've boarded and can wait a few days to do this. On my first cruise to Hawaii (in 2002) I had deposited $500 to my account, and my congregation had been kind and had deposited another $500 to my account, meaning that I didn't have to make any deposit once I was aboard (hint hint to any church members who might be reading this ... I board the Zaandam in October to go to Hawaii again).

[Navy_Chief]

So there are a few of us on the board that use the "Carl Malden Method" of using American Express Traveler's Cheques to handle accounts and there are the Credit Card folks.

 

Here is the question: Nobody seems to have had the experiance Brian had (or claim it here), BUT how many people had been what I like to call "Nickle and Dimed" or charged after the fact with small charges they can't account for say, $20 or $30 or even $10 that you had to go tussle with the cruise line over a month AFTER you got back and saw the bill (be honest with yourselves here, I'm not expecting an answer, just making a point)? How Many people just "Let it slide" (and how many instances of $10 just lined someone's pockets because they "Let it Slide")?

 

My answer (and I'll bet all of the Traveler's Cheque folks) is never. Our business was concluded the minute they handed me the receipt marked "PAID IN FULL". I will say that I have argued charges on the bill at the Front Desk which get removed 99.9% of the time, on the spot, when I show up with my "Book Keeping" but NEVER afterwords as they don't have a Credit Card number to charge to and I have never received a bill in the mail after the fact (if I did, they wouldn't get a dime. They're going to need to drag me and my "Book Keeping" to Small Claims Court).

[gizmo]

Using a credit card does not indicate in any way that you don't have the cash or can't pay in cash.

 

Personally I don't carry cash. But when I charge on my credit card I immediately deduct it off my checking account because it's money spent. I don't owe a dime on any cc account.

 

There are a lot of reasons to use a credit card and one of them is proven right here on this thread. It's a safety device against just this sort of thing. Brian could call his CC company and they would not require him to pay that amount until the situation is straightened out. It would still be a pain but he wouldn't be sitting there $1500 in the hole!

 

So I wouldn't be so vehement in putting down credit card use. Not everyone uses them to be up to their ears in debt ... not to mention the ton of perks we get for using credit cards.

 

As far as I'm concerned, credit cards are the safest method of payment.

 

Like you, we use a credit card for ship board charges and for the same reasons feel this is best. We do bring travelers checks for on shore expenses.

 

 

Personally, I feel the cash way seems the safest way to protect your self against fruadulant charges as well as not having to write that large check to the credit card company when the bill comes due.

I agree, different strokes for different folks, but in IMO I do not see "having to write the large check " as a logical reason.

 

How Many people just "Let it slide"

I have never been charged anything after I left the ship. While on board, there have been a couple of charges on my account that were not mine and I had no problem having them removed.

 

My rating of payment methods:

1. Credit card - Best IMO. They will dispute charges for you. I prefer Amex. ;)
   
2. Travelers checks - Good method but once it is paid for, that is it. No way could you dispute anything. Any significate purchase on shore goes on Amex.
   
3. Cash - Not for me since I think it is not a good idea to carry around large sums of money.
   
4. Pre Pay - Not for me, since I rather have the money in my bank account, not the cruise line's.
   
5. Debit card - The worse choice which I would never consider. I don't even use them day to day. I think this thread shows why a debit card is not exactly a great choice of payment. :eek:

[shakespeare]

We have never been charged anything after departing a cruise. We have cruised X a lot, Princess and RCL a few times and HAL once. One thing that I do like about Celebrity is that you can check your account on the TV, so there is no need to go to the front desk. I keep all my receipts for on board purchases and tally them daily so that I know what we are spending. We use our credit card for everything and pay it in full at the end of the month. I check it on line so that I keep track of my balance. It also gives me a good view of how we are spending our money and I hardly ever write checks any more. We use a Marriott Rewards Visa card and have gotten quite a few free hotel stays and several trips using points. I also feel safer using a credit card as we can dispute any charges that are made in error. I realize this is not for everyone, but it works very well for us.

 

One thing about this problem that confuses me is that Brian mentions that Scotty was aware of the problem with the accounts when he disembarked, yet Brian was shocked to get the charges on his account. It is a big mess, and I hope it gets straightened out soon. I read Brian's review and although he certainly is entitled to his opinion, I don't think spending two days on a Celebrity cruise is enough to condemn the whole cruise line. Of course the accounting problem adds fuel to the fire. I think that since Scotty was aware that Brian's account was charged, he should have made more of an effort to clear it up while on board. This doesn't excuse Celebrity from not resolving the problem quickly, but certainly added to the whole mixup.

 

Liz

[xpcdoojk]

Using a credit card does not indicate in any way that you don't have the cash or can't pay in cash.

 

Personally I don't carry cash. But when I charge on my credit card I immediately deduct it off my checking account because it's money spent. I don't owe a dime on any cc account.

 

There are a lot of reasons to use a credit card and one of them is proven right here on this thread. It's a safety device against just this sort of thing. Brian could call his CC company and they would not require him to pay that amount until the situation is straightened out. It would still be a pain but he wouldn't be sitting there $1500 in the hole!

 

So I wouldn't be so vehement in putting down credit card use. Not everyone uses them to be up to their ears in debt ... not to mention the ton of perks we get for using credit cards.

 

As far as I'm concerned, credit cards are the safest method of payment.

 

Yep, I am 47 and I am not rich, and I have never carried a balance over on my credit card. However if I was in Brian's exact situation because I would have given them my credit card instead of my debit card. I would have gotten home and a couple of weeks later I would have gotten a statement from the credit card company. Which would have outraged me, whereupon, I would type up a letter (as if I was writing on Cruise Critic about the experience) and I would have put the $1500 in dispute with the credit card company. I would not have to ask friends or anyone else for a loan so that I could survive a holiday weekend because my money would still be safely in my bank. I would not suffer any real crisis at all because we know that it was a mistake on X's part, and eventually the credit card company and X would resolve the issue.

 

So, while it may be prudent to only use cash, there are a lot of reasons that it is not necessarily a panacea especially in cases like Brian's. YMMV and JMHO.

 

jc

[elmorejj]

Maybe a lot of readers do not believe in nor carry a CC but there are instances where you have to have one. If you are booking a hotel online or by phone, you have to give them a CC number. The same goes for hiring a car. Also, I would never even think of booking a cruise with anything but a CC. Remember when Rennaissance went under, the ones who booked with cash, had to stand in line with the rest of Rens creditors..........jean:cool:

[HeatherInFlorida]

I'm almost speechless (but don't worry ... not quite;) )! I can't believe this argument:D ! Is everyone for real?

 

Gizmo, I'm 100% in agreement with your ratings. I'm not sure why NavyChief is so vehement since I never said a word about it not being everyone's right to do what they like. I appreciate his service to his country in defending our right to do as we choose. All I did was point out the benefits of using a credit card.

 

How can one "not believe" in a credit card? Not suggesting you should use one, but if one is prudent in their financial planning a credit card is exactly the same as accummulating the money upfront and plopping it down as you board the HAL ship. Only difference is we plop it down a month later. How is that different?

 

To top it off, I have some recourse when problems like Brian's occur. The only charge I have ever received after disembarking was settled immediately and I never had to pay a dime of it.

 

So while I'm in support of "to each his own" , I can't imagine anyone arguing they'd rather write a big check before the fact then after the fact.

 

It's much like going into a restaurant and giving the Maitre D' a few hundred dollars up front for dinner and telling him you'll collect the difference on your way out. LOL! I don't think so!!!:D

[Krazy Kruizers]

WOW - I didn't realize how this thread has taken off the last few days since I last read it.

 

I am with the majority - use credit card - easier to dispute a charge.

 

Never pay upfront and don't even own a debit card.

 

That's just my 2 cents worth.

[RevNeal]

Heather,

 

I didn't realize that an argument was going on. :)

At least, my read of the post doesn't detect any animosity.

Perhaps I'm missing something?

 

As for what has been said here, it might help the discussion a bit if it were realized that there may be historical and practical reasons why some people either will not or cannot use a credit card to pay their onboard expenses. For instance, up until about a year ago my reasons own were twofold: (1) I am gun-shy about using credit cards in all but "must use" situations due to a history of poor financial judgement, and (2) the simple fact that I didn't have enough free credit to be able to pass the "pre-authorization test" on all but a 7 day cruise.

 

Relative to reason number 1: it has taken me years to dig myself out of the credit-hole I buried myself in and I long-ago vowed that I would never allow myself to get into such a hole again; the best way for me to fulfill my vow has been for me to live by the "pay as you go" method. If I could qualify for an AMEX Card I would get one ... but, apparently, my history is still too fresh for them to issue me another card :(. Perhaps a few more years of consistent financial solvency will change their minds? In the meantime, when I do use a credit card (when I am in a "have to" situation, like hotel and car rentals, etc.) I do, and I pay off the balance in full within the grace period (or as soon as I absolutely can). This is resulting in my credit-line being slowly expanded on my two "real" credit cards ... with the result being that I am, only just now, capable of passing the the "pre-authorization test" on a longer cruise.

 

In short, some people CAN use credit cards, but prefer the cash method for various reasons. Others simply CAN'T use credit cards for such purchases because they can't pass the credit solvency tests which the cruise lines apply. IMHO, for both groups paying by travelers checks is probably the "best" alternative method. It is the safest in terms of carrying financial instruments with you; it is also the simplest, in that the ship will change travelers checks without a fee and fairly painlessly, too. Making a pre-cruise debit-card deposit to one's account via ship's services is probably the second-best plan, as far as convenience and safety is concerned; granted, it means one loses control of one's money to the cruise line even before one boards the ship, but for most people who need to use the "pay as you go" method this point is unimportant (they wouldn't have been earning any interest on their money anyway -- or, at least, not enough interest for it to really matter). My church members have been wonderful to me in making handsome deposits into my shipboard accounts prior to nearly every cruise I've taken since 2001. This loving practice of theirs has cut down my final onboard expenses by giving me a starting positive balance in my account. By adding a small amount to that balance I've even been able to make a cruise without having to make any further onboard deposits at all, and have even received a tiny amount of cash back at the end of the cruise. While this might seem silly to some, it is also a more enjoyable experience than actually owing money at the end ... and immeasurably better than paying interest charges on what one has had to put on a credit card and cannot cover within the grace period.

 

For those who can, and who do not have any personal qualms about securing their onboard account with a credit card, I suspect that this is probably the best, simplest, and safest method for them. For those who either can't or who are not comfortable doing this, there ARE alternatives. And, no matter which group one falls in, having alternatives is ALWAYS a good thing. :)

[elmorejj]

Greg, I understand where you are coming from. May I ask a personal question? If you don`t want to answer, just tell me to MYOB!! Do you book and pay for your cruises with cash also?........jean:cool:

[lvtotrvl1]

Go Revneal!!!! I have been reading these posts, wondering when they would end(if ever:) ). People do certain things for reasons of their own. I really can't believe how long this subject has lasted.

[cechase]

Nobody seems to have had the experiance Brian had (or claim it here), BUT how many people had been what I like to call "Nickle and Dimed" or charged after the fact with small charges they can't account for say, $20 or $30 or even $10 that you had to go tussle with the cruise line over a month AFTER you got back and saw the bill (be honest with yourselves here, I'm not expecting an answer, just making a point)? /QUOTE]

 

Hello Chief, just popped over here from the Celebrity forum to see if this thread was continuing on! From time to time on the Celebrity forum you will see one or two posts about post disembarkation charges. Most of them seem to relate to a charge for the really great beach towels which are provided to the pax. Usually, it turns out to be an overzealous cabin steward, but now and then an absent minded pax, who packs them - because they are left on the bed and not the bathroom.

 

In five cruises on Celebrity, we have never had a problem with our accounts and we use a credit card. We also daily or every other day check our account on the TV in our cabin. We also keep our copy of the charge slip and use them to compare with the final statement which is slipped under the door our last night of the cruise. I agree that checking on your account takes very little time. Perhaps my four years as a supply corps officer gave me a little bit of experience in reconciling accounts. :D