X Strikes Again....

[RevNeal]

My question is whether you can be in the same room with someone else and have totally different and separate room accounts? Surely someone who has shared a cabin with a non-relative with their own cc can answer that. This whole mess could have been avoided if each of the guys had had a completely separate ship's account rather than one invoice split 3 ways depending on charges made.

 

Yes.

When Christopher and I cruise I am #1 and he is #2 -- at least, that's how it always works out (I don't know why). His print out comes to him, my print out comes to me. If there's an error and a charge (or charges) of his are on my account it's easy to get it transferred, but we both have to go to the front desk to do this. He pays his bill with a credit card, I usually pay my bill with cash. The two accounts do not mix, and are settled independently of each other. He is not responsible for mine, and I am not responsible for his.

 

The problem here, as I understand it, is that when the business office got around to actually putting the charges through all they did was lump everything into ONE bill and charge it all to Brian. This is sloppy accounting and may well be illegal on the part of the line. At least on HAL there is NOTHING in the contract which states that the primary in a cabin is ultimately responsible for all bills accrued by unrelated adult passengers in the same cabin. I can't imagine that X would be any different in that regard. The claim that the other passengers' cards were declined is bogus ... it was one of the lies that was attempted by X to cover their shoddy accounting practice in this matter. This can be demonstrated by the fact that X has now charged the other two for their onboard expenses but has NOT, yet, reverse-charged Brian's money back to him (despite claiming that they have).

 

The second problem -- and this is worse than the first -- is that those with whom Brian has been communicating in X's business office have, in effect, been lying to him. They have lied about when his money would be returned (as of right now it has not yet been charged back to his bank, even though X has claimed -- twice -- that it has been charged back), and they have attempted to claim at least 2 difference causes of this error ... both of which place the blame on the others in his cabin. All-in-all, this is simply unacceptable as far as business practices go.

 

As for X holding on to the money which they mistakenly took from Brian and not from those to whom it should have been charged ... that money is NOT their money, it's Brian's money which they have incorrectly charged from him for debts that he never incurred. They had NO BUSINESS charging it to him in the first place, and they certainly have NO BUSINESS continuing to hold on to it once they learned of their error, and the fact that they are continuing to hold onto it even AFTER charging the others cards, is utterly BEYOND the pale of acceptability. It is not Brian's responsibility to ensure that the debts of the others in his cabin are paid ... it is the Line's responsibility to collect their money from those who actually owe it. Claiming that they have to to make sure the charges are covered and are holding onto Brian's money to that end is like saying that they should be able to charge YOUR credit card for the onboard expenses of those in the cabin next door to you simply because their card was declined but they have your card and it works. Yes, that's absurd ... and so is this.

[RevNeal]

Brian got off after 2 days. He settled his account and left.

 

If Brian settled his account and everything was fine ... HOW IS IT that the Line felt free to charge him for expenses that were incurred by others AFTER he disembarked? That's part of what makes this so atrocious. How would you feel if you got a charge on your credit card for the onboard expenses of those who cruised in your cabin on the sailing AFTER yours? That's not unlike what's happened to Brian. Brian's account was settled and closed. There shouldn't have been ANY WAY to charge to him the expenses of another.

[GMoney]

Tell us how you really feel Rev. Don't hold back... :D ;)

 

Yes.

When Christopher and I cruise I am #1 and he is #2 -- at least, that's how it always works out (I don't know why). His print out comes to him, my print out comes to me. If there's an error and a charge (or charges) of his are on my account it's easy to get it transferred, but we both have to go to the front desk to do this. He pays his bill with a credit card, I usually pay my bill with cash. The two accounts do not mix, and are settled independently of each other. He is not responsible for mine, and I am not responsible for his.

 

The problem here, as I understand it, is that when the business office got around to actually putting the charges through all they did was lump everything into ONE bill and charge it all to Brian. This is sloppy accounting and may well be illegal on the part of the line. At least on HAL there is NOTHING in the contract which states that the primary in a cabin is ultimately responsible for all bills accrued by unrelated adult passengers in the same cabin. I can't imagine that X would be any different in that regard. The claim that the other passengers' cards were declined is bogus ... it was one of the lies that was attempted by X to cover their shoddy accounting practice in this matter. This can be demonstrated by the fact that X has now charged the other two for their onboard expenses but has NOT, yet, reverse-charged Brian's money back to him (despite claiming that they have).

 

The second problem -- and this is worse than the first -- is that those with whom Brian has been communicating in X's business office have, in effect, been lying to him. They have lied about when his money would be returned (as of right now it has not yet been charged back to his bank, even though X has claimed -- twice -- that it has been charged back), and they have attempted to claim at least 2 difference causes of this error ... both of which place the blame on the others in his cabin. All-in-all, this is simply unacceptable as far as business practices go.

 

As for X holding on to the money which they mistakenly took from Brian and not from those to whom it should have been charged ... that money is NOT their money, it's Brian's money which they have incorrectly charged from him for debts that he never incurred. They had NO BUSINESS charging it to him in the first place, and they certainly have NO BUSINESS continuing to hold on to it once they learned of their error, and the fact that they are continuing to hold onto it even AFTER charging the others cards, is utterly BEYOND the pale of acceptability. It is not Brian's responsibility to ensure that the debts of the others in his cabin are paid ... it is the Line's responsibility to collect their money from those who actually owe it. Claiming that they have to to make sure the charges are covered and are holding onto Brian's money to that end is like saying that they should be able to charge YOUR credit card for the onboard expenses of those in the cabin next door to you simply because their card was declined but they have your card and it works. Yes, that's absurd ... and so is this.

[RevNeal]

Tell us how you really feel Rev. Don't hold back... :D ;)

 

Oh, I'm holding back. I'm angry and this didn't even happen to me! :)

I just don't don't like seeing good people -- friends of mine -- placed into hardship over the clerical errors of others. And let's not forget that this has generated a real hardship for Brian. It's not just that he didn't have access to some credit that he would have liked to have used ... it's that he went in and through a 3-day holiday weekend with a negative balance in his checking account and NO cash on hand. I know what that's like ... it's not fun.

[mechcc]

My question is whether you can be in the same room with someone else and have totally different and separate room accounts? Surely someone who has shared a cabin with a non-relative with their own cc can answer that. This whole mess could have been avoided if each of the guys had had a completely separate ship's account rather than one invoice split 3 ways depending on charges made.

 

They are suppose to charge it to separate accounts. Three weeks ago I shared a cabin with another person unrelated to me. The cabin was reserved in my name originally as a single. She was added later and we didn't meet till the day before the cruise. We didn't even check in at the same time. She paid with credit card and I paid in cash. There was never ever a problem with charges for one going to the other's account. Both times they handed out statements, they were separate account. RCCL got it right and maybe they need to train the people who work at X.

 

IMHO, X was totally in error to ever of put any charges on his account after he had left ship. Add that to the false excuses he's been given, promptly charging his friends accounts but not promptly returning his money is criminal.

 

As for using a debit card versus a credit card, that's a personal choice and many factors play into using the debit card. X is suppose to be a crediable company and they should of never charged him when he was clearly not responsible for his friends charges.

 

Brian - sure hope you don't cancel your next cruise. Remember You're our social director and we need you.

[HeatherInFlorida]

If Brian settled his account and everything was fine ... HOW IS IT that the Line felt free to charge him for expenses that were incurred by others AFTER he disembarked? That's part of what makes this so atrocious. How would you feel if you got a charge on your credit card for the onboard expenses of those who cruised in your cabin on the sailing AFTER yours? That's not unlike what's happened to Brian. Brian's account was settled and closed. There shouldn't have been ANY WAY to charge to him the expenses of another.

 

Greg, I left a word out of my post ... my mistake. I meant to say that Brian believed he had settled his account when he left the ship.

 

I would never debate that there's been an error made here. I never have from the onset and I don't think anyone else has. I thought what everyone here is doing was to make an effort to figure out how it ever could have happened in the first place.

 

Clearly, based on your post, you have much more information than the rest of us have who are only going by what Brian has actually told us. But something is amiss; I don't think anyone here debates that.

 

I hope it gets straightened out for Brian soon and they make up the whole mess to him in some way.

[RuthC]

I hope ... they make up the whole mess to him in some way.

And there-in lies the rub. When this unfortunate episode is over X will have refunded Brian's money, may have offered an apology, and X will end it there.

If they behave like any other large organization there will be no effort to "make up" anything to him. They certainly won't ask him what they could do to make things up to him.

But out of curiosity, if they were to ask you Brian, what would you ask for so you could end this feeling better (notice I didn't say "good") about X?

[krewzin]

Peryaps they will offer him a $25 credit on a future cruise?

 

:D

[HeatherInFlorida]

Not to belabor it, Ruth (as if we haven't already;) ), but I have to say that in my experience large organizations have often done something for me when it has turned out that the error was on their part. I've actually had this happen many times.

 

So I wouldn't simply dismiss the idea. I'm not saying they will because I personally still don't have all the knowledge I would need to know what mistake has been made. But it certainly is done.

 

Of course, in Brian's case a credit toward a future cruise or some such thing would most probably not "cut it":) .

[iceman93]

Maybe they can offer him a free cruise? ;) :D

[Grumpy1]

Maybe they can offer him a free cruise? ;) :D

He could ask that they provide him a free cruise.... on HAL!:D

[JLC@SD]

Everyone is forming an opinion based completely on Brian's statements.........which could be completely true..........or slanted towards his dissatisfaction with X............which is clearly evident by the fact he left the cruise early...............sort of the two sides to every story concept.

 

What if..........his winning the cruise through Travelocity...........was conditioned (by small print) on him being responsible for all charges made to the cabin...;)

[Sunshine91]

Yes, that's absurd ... and so is this.

 

THANK YOU!

[RevNeal]

Greg, I left a word out of my post ... my mistake. I meant to say that Brian believed he had settled his account when he left the ship.

 

HAL wouldn't let me disembark the ship and end a cruise without settling in full with them. Based upon everything that Brian has said, I assume that this is what happened with Brian.

 

I would never debate that there's been an error made here. I never have from the onset and I don't think anyone else has. I thought what everyone here is doing was to make an effort to figure out how it ever could have happened in the first place.

 

Yes and no. Yes, we're trying to figure out how this happened. We're also trying to figure out how this is STILL going on. And, I would hope, we're all commiserating with Brian on how it was wrong. And ... I don't believe that anyone here is dissenting in this.

 

Clearly, based on your post, you have much more information than the rest of us have who are only going by what Brian has actually told us. But something is amiss; I don't think anyone here debates that.

 

I hope it gets straightened out for Brian soon and they make up the whole mess to him in some way.

 

Heather, we are in total agreement here.

[Tricia724]

This is really interesting to me because my SO and I always register both of our credit cards and have seldom had any problems with the billings being correctly assigned. As others have mentioned, the billings numbers were always Cabin 1234-1 and 1234-2.

 

I have noticed, however, that there were times in the past on HAL that we were not required to produce our cards. We were merely asked for the cabin number....and if we thoughtlessly just gave the cabin number without the -1 or -2 designation, the charge would automatically be charged to -1....no matter which of us signed the slip. Celebrity, however, was a lot more strict....I was always asked for my card whenever I made any purchase....which was fine....but knowing this makes this situation with Brian and his friends even more strange to me.

 

Most of the cruiselines have a similar form you have to sign which lists your card number and asks you to designate who else is permitted to charge to that account. If there are no other names listed, it is very clear that you are not assuming responsibility for any charges but your own. I understand there are differences if children are involved, but I'm merely addressing the issue of adults sharing the same cabin.

 

It then stands to reason that the cruiseline has to require any other adults who have not made financial arrangements to do so. And....if and when the others do make arrangements, they are responsible for themselves....and the cruiseline should go after them and nobody else.

 

I have never understood why some of the cruiselines are so lax about obtaining financial arrangements. I think all cruiselines should do this at check-in or immediately thereafter....and if an individual is not prepared to do so, he/she should be politely informed that he/she will not be able to make any charges onboard until that requirement is satisfied. If the cruise is half over, and someone has charged up a few hundred bucks and has made no effort to set up a payment plan, why in the world would you continue to let them get in even deeper and risk non-payment? I don't get it.:confused:

[mechcc]

Of course, in Brian's case a credit toward a future cruise or some such thing would most probably not "cut it":) .

 

My money is that if they gave him a 100% cruise of like stateroom on HAL he would jump on it, as long as not other conditions are involved.:rolleyes:

[thomasale]

Everyone is forming an opinion based completely on Brian's statements.........which could be completely true..........or slanted towards his dissatisfaction with X............which is clearly evident by the fact he left the cruise early...............sort of the two sides to every story concept.

 

What if..........his winning the cruise through Travelocity...........was conditioned (by small print) on him being responsible for all charges made to the cabin...;)

 

That has been my feeling also. Their are 3 sides to every story yours, theirs, and the truth. My sympathy is with Brian though, because the $1500 is his...for that there is no question. For him that (and me too for that matter)is significant money. X would not have missed it for the time it will take for them to collect from the rightful source. Shame on X for allowing this to become what it has.

[HeatherInFlorida]

HAL wouldn't let me disembark the ship and end a cruise without settling in full with them. Based upon everything that Brian has said, I assume that this is what happened with Brian. ................

 

Actually, that's not completely true. I can't speak for HAL, but when we were on Celebrity last year we got our statement at the end of the cruise, but it clearly stated that additional charges could possibly be added after we disembarked.

 

While my initial statement was correct, I was billed for additional charges on my credit card when I got home. And they were not my charges. I emailed Celebrity and after 3 or 4 "back and forths" it was straightened out. In the Showlounge they don't actually swipe your card, but rather just write your number on the slip. So I got doused with some other people's drink charges who must have ordered their drinks right after I ordered my Coke which I knew couldn't cost $25:) .

 

My point is, the so called "final" bill is not necessarily final. And in Brian's case he disembarked early, and suddenly from what I understand, so it's logical to guess his account might not be completely up to date.

 

All this has nothing to do with his current situation which is going on far too long. But as others have said, too, we really don't have all the facts.

 

My sympathies continue to lie with Brian and I hope we get some good news today from him.

[RevNeal]

Heather,

 

That's most interesting. I wonder how they manage to settle accounts with people who, like me, tend to pay in cash? When I disembark I settle my account, in cash, and that settlement is considered "final." Of course it is final ... I'm off the ship and they don't have a card of mine from which to snatch money. I suppose they would just have to bill me for any additional charges.

 

We are agreed that there is a massive difference between what you discovered and what Brian discovered (about a $1475 difference), but apparently a "Final Bill" isn't a "Final Bill" and a "Settled Account" isn't a "Settled Account."

[xpcdoojk]

Heather,

 

That's most interesting. I wonder how they manage to settle accounts with people who, like me, tend to pay in cash? When I disembark I settle my account, in cash, and that settlement is considered "final." Of course it is final ... I'm off the ship and they don't have a card of mine from which to snatch money. I suppose they would just have to bill me for any additional charges.

 

We are agreed that there is a massive difference between what you discovered and what Brian discovered (about a $1475 difference), but apparently a "Final Bill" isn't a "Final Bill" and a "Settled Account" isn't a "Settled Account."

 

I imagine they are a lot more thorough with people who settle their accounts by cash.:D

 

jc

[HeatherInFlorida]

I agree, Greg ... it is curious. And jc may be right. I guess they'd go back to the old fashioned way of sending you a bill and hoping you would pay it ... just like the 'old days'.

 

I would guess, as well, that when a person says they will pay in cash, they do check your credit history.

 

Of course you're right! My situation isn't the same at all and it's one reason I never even mentioned it! I only used it as an example and of course it also proves the old addage, what possibly can go wrong most likely will go wrong (or something like that???:o )

[peaches from georgia]

..... of course it also proves the old addage, what possibly can go wrong most likely will go wrong (or something like that???:o )

Murphy's Law: Anything that can go wrong will go wrong! :D

[RevNeal]

I would guess, as well, that when a person says they will pay in cash, they do check your credit history.

 

Not in my experience. At least, HAL doesn't. They make you pay up-front. Then, at the end of the cruise, you go to the front desk and they pay you back whatever overage you've paid them. :) Your onboard "credit" is equal to the amount you deposit.

[Grumpy1]

Murphy's Law: Anything that can go wrong will go wrong! :D

I've always liked the version that says "when absolutely nothing can possibly go wrong... it will anyway.":D

[RevNeal]

Murphy's Law: Anything that can go wrong will go wrong! :D

 

Murphy was an Optimist.

 

I prefer Heinlein's Law: "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."

 

I also like Heinlein's corollary to Murphy's Law: "When in trouble or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout." :)

 

Some people are good at his corollary. Others just exemplify the truth of his Law.