Tipping Tour Drivers ??

[GreenValleyDogWalker]

Sorry if this has already been asked and answered - by "search" does not seem to be working too well !

We have booked several private tours for our up-coming Carnival Liberty Med Cruise (thanks to all the great info on this board !)

(8 of us)

Question: What is the "standard" for tipping the tour guide at the end ?

[Dorothy]

I don't think there is a "standard". Everyone is different. My husband and I hired our guides for ourselves. So, because there were no other people in our party, we tipped our guides $50USD each.

 

We had traveled with others in the past and in a large group, we tipped $5-$10 per person.

[bigmjh]

We used drivers on numerous occasions and generally would tip about 10% split among all those that we shared with. If the driver was exceptionally good ... 15%. in countries like Turkey where the rates were EXTREMELY low for the tours that we got we would tip more generously (often they shared the tip between a guide and driver).

[10july86]

Not to sound stupid, but...do you tip in Euros or US Dollars?

 

Thanks.

[carlmm]

...do you tip in Euros or US Dollars?

 

You should tip in local currency which is the Euro in most typical cruise countries like Italy, Spain, Greece etc.

 

But than there is the question if you should tip at all. If the driver is also the owner/operator it might be regarded as insult.

Even if not, remember this is Europe, there is no need to tip outrageous amounts like $50 or something. There is nothing like lower minimum wages for people who do get tipped here. The high prices include proper wages.

[CruisinGerman]

If you do a search you will find previous threads on this subject with adamant opinions (and adamant responses and suggestions by the likes of me, who was born in Germany but has spent his life living between Paris and Barcelona).

 

In Continental Europe, there is NO NEED to leave any tip at all -- restaurants, tours, most any situation.

 

Remember, this is not the United States and your rules do not apply here. In Europe you may dine in the finest restaurants and leave no tip and you will be treated just as royally (or just as poorly, if the service is bad) as the table next to you who may not know any better and may have tipped in the same percentage as they would in the United States.

 

Don't throw away your money when it is not necessary and have a safe trip.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[canadiansnowbird]

If you feel you should give the driver of your tour something, be interested in their hobbies and interests and take sport hats, shirts, CD's of their music. If you ask before you go, the tour operator will tell you if you press for an answer. Also, you will offer to have him/her join you for lunch and pay for that. Other than that, if you want to add more, you can. But, I think these suggestions are suffice.

 

 

Snowbird

[Dorothy]

I say let your conscience be your guide. I tipped in Euros because that is the local currency. I just gave you the equivalent in U.S. dollars.

 

Tipping is a peronal thing. Although some may disagree and think I am being silly by throwing my money away. I am an American and think people who do a good job should be rewarded especially when they have gone above and beyond to make my stay special. I could not in good conscience, not tip. If I didn't, I would be thinking forever after departing if I did the wrong thing. Did the person feel as though he was slighted? No, after all the money I spend on a wonderful vacation, I choose to make that persons day by giving generously and making myself feel good knowing that I did.

[CruisinGerman]

The whole modern concept of tipping is that in the United States, people in the service industry earn a sub-wage and the tipping system in the United States is designed to supplement that wage.

 

In Europe, everyone earns a full wage with full national health and pension benefits, and tipping does not form part of that system.

 

Americans who come to Europe and start throwing their money around by way of tips are actually doing a disservice to the system here because people who serve Americans will come to expect those tips when they, themselves know that the tip is unnecessary.

 

The same thing would happen if I started a lobby of populating New York City restaurants only with European customers who do not leave tips. Then the restaurant owners would be forced to pay workers proper wages and you Americans will see those proper wages reflected via increased menu prices.

 

The point is, while it may sound very noble and generous to want to tip people here the way you are doing so in the United States, in my humble opinion you are not doing the system a favor and you should abide by the old saying, "When in Rome......."

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[Miata6]

Americans who come to Europe and start throwing their money around by way of tips are actually doing a disservice to the system here because people who serve Americans will come to expect those tips when they, themselves know that the tip is unnecessary.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

 

Hey Gunther (and Uta), give it up. It's the way we were brought up. You were brought up differently. Neither is necessarily superior, it's just different.

I know you mean well, but it's probably not gonna fly. Now, if you can find a way to improve the Istanbul cab drivers....:rolleyes:

[mamaof2]

Miata6,

 

Why not to respect customs of the people who live there? Why do we come to other coutries and impose our own values on their way of life. Why not to give some respect (using our own words - "it's not necessarily superior, it's just different". I think by stating that "that's the way we've brought up" you do state that we are superior, it's our way, deal with it or else.

 

I apologize if I sound harsh.

[sleeples23]

Gunther,

 

I have been reading your posts avidly and I must say, you make a valid point. I understand completely and even agree with you in each point you are making.

 

I am embarrassed to say, Americans, myself included, will tip regardless, whether it be because we are sharing a private tour and the tip will be divvied up accordingly, or just because we are accustomed to tipping and somewhat too arrogant to abide by "when in Rome..."

 

Believe me, when looking at tours totaling in the thousands of dollars, I would like nothing more than to skip the tip, if that's what is expected, but therein lies the rub. These tour guides receive tips on a daily basis from the Americans who continue to perpetuate the error. My concern is that they may feel they didn't earn the tip if an American doesn't tip them. If a European were on the tour, they probably wouldn't tip and the guide would not be insulted.

 

Short of changing the world one tip at a time, this seems like a lose-lose situation. However, I wanted to say I do admire your persistence in making us understand and respect the European culture. It's truly said that it falls on deaf ears.

 

Thanks,

Donna:o

 

PS... When in NY, never be afraid to undertip or leave no tip, if that is what is deserved. The gratuity is certainly part of the wage, but it is based on a decent level of service at a minimum. I rarely leave no tip, because it is unfair to the rest of the staff that gets "tipped" out of the servers tip. However, being a generous tipper (20-25% for most meals), I will easily drop down to the 10-15% level, for poor service, after speaking with the manager and/or owner of the establishment.

[sjbdtz]

When your lawyer hands you their bill for $350 / hour, do you tack on a 15% tip?

 

No? What kind of American are you? I thought we tipped for good service over here? :rolleyes:

 

Gunther has it right...we tip to increase the income of those who we feel aren't earning very much....we don't tip our doctors, or psychologists, etc. So it's very much a "great job, here's some extra money"....and some people who are not in an industry where it's expected...would probably either think you foolish, or be offended.

 

The same applies in other cultures, where people in what we consider "service" industries, are well-paid, and the costs of their salaries are already passed on in higher prices.

 

So when the culture dictates that it's an insult to tip, DON'T tip.

 

Remember this: It's about THEM, not about how you were brought up.

 

The indication of good manners is to follow the custom, even if it's not intuitive.

[Kindlychap]

Hey Gunther (and Uta), give it up. It's the way we were brought up. You were brought up differently. Neither is necessarily superior, it's just different.

I know you mean well, but it's probably not gonna fly. Now, if you can find a way to improve the Istanbul cab drivers....:rolleyes:

 

Why do you have so much difficulty with the concept of "when in Rome, do as the Romans do?"

 

It's good manners to respect the opinions of your hosts surely?

 

Or are you telling me that you think I ought to tip in the USA in the way I would in London?

 

I'm quite happy to save some money next time I'm over there if you still maintain your view that you can come to Europe and follow American customs.

[Keith1010]

This item does come up regularly. I always recommend the following.

 

1. See what the custom is as it truly ranges by country in Europe. Many travel books will give you the recommendations. In some countries it's not recommended, in other countries they clearly note that the service charge is already added and in other countries it is greatly appreciated as it is in the United States.

 

2. Do what you think is right. The amount I give is based on the items noted above but takes into account the quality of the tour. So, for example if it is custom in a particular country to give a tip and the tour has been outstanding I will tip more than if the tour is average and if the tour is poor I don't care what the custom is I won't tip. No different than a US restaurant. If the service in a restaurant is outstanding I will give the server a higer tip than if the service is average and if the service is poor I will not only not give a tip but I will talk with the manager.

 

But, again, tipping varies by country around the world and then as is the case say in the United States, how much you give is really a personal decision.

 

Keith

[CruisinGerman]

I seem to have offended at least one of the posters. That was not my intention. My intention was to try to enlighten you so that you can save some money, and not feel embarrassed as you might in America when not leaving a tip.

 

The "logic" in your message would be that I should bring my custom with me to the United States when travelling there and not follow the local customs. So by following that "logic", I should not leave any tip in any restaurant in New York City, no matter whether the service is good or bad. Well, you all know how that's going to fly if I should ever dare try it.

 

Furthermore, the problem with the guidebooks that you read is that they are written by Americans (or other English speakers) for an American, or American-influenced, audience.

 

If you read a guidebook published locally in Europe for Europeans in German, Spanish, French and Italian (and I mean local guidebooks for the local target audience, not just translations of Fodor's and the lot), those guidebooks tell you that tipping is not required, and some of those guidebooks don't even mention tipping at all.

 

The custom in Europe would be to empty your pocket of a few coins (that is where the word tip comes from in the European languages: for example, "pourboire" in French, which literally means to give something to somebody for a drink) or not to leave any tip at all.

 

To give a European waiter or other service operator a 25% tip (as some suggest they do in the United States) would definitely be a windfall and totally uncalled for in Europe. And the service you receive will most likely not be any different from the service received by the adjoining table of Europeans who don't tip anything.

 

My persistence might come from my German blood -- but that is how I am, I am sorry.

 

When I post here, knowing that it is mostly Americans who read this forum, I try to give advice and insight as to how we live here in Europe. As a consequence of having been born in Germany, lived in Paris and Barcelona, and travelled extensively and for long periods of time throughout the Continent, I feel that I am somewhat qualified to share my thoughts. If for any reason my fellow posters don't think I should continue to share these thoughts, please just let me know and I will stop posting and responding immediately.

 

In any case (and I will now most definitely be flamed for having enough guts to say this), I think that deep down inside, most of you Americans already know that there is no tipping in Europe, but yes, you do feel that superiority complex (some people more than others, obviously) and therefore enjoy throwing your money around at people, even though they do not expect tips and they earn proper wages, with national health, unemployment, pension, death and disability benefits. The reason I make this controversial statement is that I spend a great deal of time in the United States and, oddly enough, I never see Americans showing that same generosity by throwing their money at the millions of homeless people that populate the streets of New York City and Los Angeles.

 

Getting back to the matter at hand, whether you are tipping in Europe to flaunt the stereotypical "I am American and am proud to show it" superiority complex some of you have, or whether you are tipping in Europe as an honest gesture of appreciation for outstanding service received, you are definitely not following the European custom and, whether intentionally or inadvertently, you are imposing your own customs on another country and another culture.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[Keith1010]

Gunther, my brother in law is from the United Kingdom. Lived there all his life. He also confirms that tipping is different in each country in Europe. So, he tips accordingly based on where he visits.

 

We approach this the same way. It's worked for us, and we are happy that way.

 

Obviously, you are happy with your approach too.

 

So, in the end, as I've always said people should do what they think is best. That's what we do.

 

Keith

[CruisinGerman]

Keith:

 

You will note that when I refer to tipping in Europe, I always try to use the expression "on the Continent".

 

The United Kingdom, especially London, is somewhat different from the rest of Continental Europe, both in its labor regulations and practices, as well as in its tipping practices. The United Kingdom falls somewhere in the middle between Continental Europe and the United States as far as these matters are concerned.

 

Consequently, tipping is more frequent in the United Kingdom, especially large cities such as London, than it is on the Continent, although it has not in any sense reached the levels of the United States.

 

If you dine in most restaurants throughout Continental Europe, by way of example, when you give the waiter your credit card to pay the bill, the credit card receipt will be returned for you to sign with no possibility of including a "tip". This is standard practice in Europe and further proof that tips, in the U.S. sense of the word, are not expected.

 

Curiously enough, in recent years, in restaurants and similar establishments frequented by American tourists, the credit card chits have started to evolve into the kind where you add a tip and then total the credit card receipt. This practice, and mind you, it is only present in establishments that cater to American tourists, is to appease those of you Americans who simply can't leave your custom of tipping at home.

 

Typically, the native European will write the word "zero" on this type of bill and sign the credit card slip without including any tip. That native European will be smiled at in the same way as the gullible American who has succumbed to the tipping rouse. The tipper will not receive any better service than the non-tipper.

 

Please, friends, do not be fooled -- the United States is a wonderful country in many ways, but not all of its customs are followed every place in the world and you should not be so gullible as to leave 25% tips in a place where you are not expected to leave one single penny.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[CruisinGerman]

If you kindly re-read your post, you will find that you actually do agree with me.

 

First of all, what do you expect a taxi driver who caters to foreign tourists to say?

 

But his next sentence actually confirms what I have been writing about for ages. Yes, they do tip, but in a different way than Americans.

 

When the taxi driver says that he tips, he means the following:

 

1. He will round up a €4.65 taxi fare to a €5 bill, or perhaps an €18.75 taxi fare to a €20 bill. That is fine -- I would have no problem with that.

 

Anyway, in all due respect, you should take what an Italian taxi driver might say with a grain of salt. Many of you may have only started travelling since the onset of the euro, which in structure is very similar to the dollar.

 

However, others of you might remember the old days of the Italian lire. Taxi drivers in Italy back in those days basically refused to give change and expected that if a fare came to 24,000 lire and you handed the driver 30,000 lire, you called it a day, and no change was ever even offered.

 

2. In a restaurant, the same person who tells you he tips in Italy will leave a euro or two in coins on the table after paying the bill -- even if dining at a table for ten and the bill comes to €600 or more.

 

I have always said that those practices are okay.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[A_Driver]

Dear Gunther,

 

I'm a driver, and drivers, like waiters, bartenders, maids and everybody working in the service industries appreciate tips, and sometimes relie on tips in order to have a decent salary. Sometimes they would get a lower salary (just like in US) because the "Boss" knows they're going to get tip. Americans are considered very good clients not only because they're fun most of the times, but also because they tend to be generous with people who do a good job and go out of their wait to let them have a great holiday...and being grateful is not only about money, even though when getting a good tip you kind of have a "certification" you've done a good job.

 

That's about it.

 

Then everyone acts how he thinks it's best, just as you can get good or bad drivers, waiters, taxidrivers, ...I guess you can have generous or...not generous clients.

 

This is my opinion, being an italian driver.

[CruisinGerman]

As an Italian driver (I assume that you mean that you work in Italy and are not simply of Italian descent living in America), you know that salaries in Italy and most other Continental European countries are regulated by sector collective bargaining agreements, labor regulations, labor unions, etc.

 

If one is legally employed (contract, Social Security, national health system, etc.) a "boss" cannot give you a lower salary, although the same "boss" is not required to give you a higher salary than legally stipulated -- although free competition and market practices tend to sort that part out.

 

I call your attention to an article recently appearing in the New York Times (and which I know many of you have read) revealing that restaurants in Rome sometimes try to charge foreign tourists more than the natives (higher prices, non-existent taxes, inferior ingredients, etc.). Just view this whole tipping matter in the same way. No matter what taxi drivers, tour guides and restaurant workers might try to make you believe, there is no need for an American or other foreign tourist to pay more for the same meal or the same service, just because that American is led to believe that large tips are appreciated, when the native European would purchase that same service or meal without any tip, or by leaving a much smaller tip than an American would.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[Dorothy]

Gunther,

 

I know that you mean well. But, I have to make a comment regarding one of your posts. I know that I was the intended target because I wrote that I tip well and I use my conscience to be my guide. How could anyone be offended if they are rewarded with extra money for a job well done? I feel good when I tip well because I figure this person can now do something extra for their family with the extra money. Maybe it will put more food on the table or buy a birthday gift for a child. Who knows what they spend it on, who cares? But, everyone can use extra money.

 

In regards to the homeless on the streets and that we don't do the same by giving money towards that cause just as freely as tipping...as a matter of fact I give regularly to our local homeless shelter. I give support with money and bags of food. So, to indicate that we throw our money around and then don't support our homeless is not true. I cannot support all the homeless, but I do my part in my community.

 

I respect your posts and don't want to discourage you from writing your opinion, but please do not judge us on what you don't know to be in our nature. We are a very generous society. Yes, we do have a lot of homeless. That is the circumstances here and in many other countries I've visited. But, I do know the generosity of my country and my own local community. Most of us give and support the homeless.

[CruisinGerman]

Dorothy:

 

Nothing I say was ever meant to single you out as a person -- especially since we don't even know each other.

 

Obviously, when I express my observations, they are general observations and not individual ones.

 

While you are obviously very civic-minded and caring, my general observation on the streets when I visit large American cities such as New York and Los Angeles has revealed that most people step right on or over the homeless when walking by, as if they didn't exist.

 

In any case, the example I used was merely a metaphorical comparison against the American insistence on tipping in Europe, which I still feel is a practice that is not necesary and not expected.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[CruisinGerman]

First of all, the minimum wage in most EU countries, even for the most menial jobs, is about €1000 euros per month, so I find the salary you were told very hard to believe -- I would say they earn at least €1700 per month net, which is about $2200.

 

Second of all, I personally believe that their salary is a bit higher and you are not being told what they really earn--it is not in their best interest to tell you the truth for obvious reasons.

 

But putting that fact aside, remember again, folks, you are not in the U.S. anymore. Even if the salary were $2200 net per month, it means the following:

 

1. Most European countries pay the "monthly net" 14 times a year -- that is you get double your salary in July before the August holiday, you still get your pay during August, and you once again get double your salary in December before the Christmas holiday.

 

2. One full month paid vacation plus all of the bank holidays throughout the year (and remember, in countries such as Italy and Spain these holidays are quite numerous).

 

3. An extra two week vacation to go on your honeymoon if you get married.

 

4. A generous paid maternity leave.

 

5. One or two days off from work (depending upon the distance from work) every time you move house.

 

6. Unlimited paid sick leave (unlimited in the sense that you can be sick for two days without having to provide a doctor's note -- after two days you need an official Social Security system doctor's note).

 

7. Full healthcare cover for life.

 

8. A generous unemployment plan (in most European countries, if you are fired, you get generous severance pay by law plus you collect most or all of your full salary for up to about five years--which is one of the reasons why there is a problem in Europe with the underground economy since many people would not like to officially work so that they may maintain their unemployment benefits).

 

9. Pension, disability, death benefits which are about five times what the U.S. Social Security system pays.

 

10. In Europe it costs about $500 per year to send children to university -- not the $40,000 + per year it currentely costs in the U.S.

 

11. In Europe, in one way or another (it varies by country, and yes sometimes it is not a smooth process because of waitlists, etc.), elderly people who cannot care for themselves are guaranteed a place in a senior citizen home or nursing home or some other type of home or assisted care--none of this outrageously expensive Long-Term Care insurance that has become so popular in the U.S. in recent years.

 

So, while on the one hand, gasoline is more expensive here (although not any more, the U.S. has basically caught up to us), housing in major cities is very expensive, sometimes clothing and other consumer purchases seem much more expensive here in Europe, on a grander scale, in taking into consideration the above, please remember that $2200 per month paid 14 times per year under the conditions I describe goes a lot farther here than it does in the United States.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[BCNlady]

I'm sorry, I have no idea about salarys in US but in southern Europe 1200€ NET is not bad. I do insist on Gunther idea, service workers in Europe are paid as others and don't need a tip to compleet salary.

Why tip service workers and no others? shopping staff, nurses, teachers..... I had never recieved a tip and I often do more than expected.

As I tip in the States as expected, I would like Americans to understand tiping is not a rule in Europe.