INFINITY is broken down again

[flagger]

I would hope that finally some attorney take on a case against Celebrity for continuing to offer a defective product for sale again and again. They know there is a problem with these ships yet they knowingly roll the dice each cruise. Clearly these ships are lemons on which no one should risk their hard earned dollars sailing.

 

I would like to see more regulation of this industry. We can easily find out the number of times a particular flight operates on time, we should be able to easily learn the number of times a particular ship has had a disrupted itin.

 

I would also like to see compensation offered on a per person rather than a per cabin basis. I pay a rate based on the number of people in my stateroom. The offers per cabin are insulting and quite frankly pitiful based on this continued issue.

[Drew B]

Maybe I am being to simplistic here, but if the failure is caused by a bearing failure in the pods, electircal failure in the pods or a watchmacallit failure in the pods, for me the only important thing is that the pods have failed.

A pod failure means that passengers vacations, once again, could be ruined. While it is very important for those who repair these pods to know exactly what part of the pod has failed, as far as the cruising passenger is concerned, the pods either work or they don't work.

 

Yes, that's being a bit simplistic. The pods essentially ARE the entire propulsion system. It's like the engine in your car. A spark plug problem would be completely different from a cam shaft problem, yet they're both engine problems... If the pods are failing due to entirely different problems, that requires different solutions and has different meaning vis a vis the history of the design.

 

The BEARING problems are a recurring design flaw that effects all of the M-Class ships. X really does need to find some solution to this problem (whether it is finding a way to fix them or finding a fair way to warn potential passengers and compensate those affected). This electrical problem (or it may have been two separate random electrical problems) is a new problem and is so far unique to the Infinity. We don't know enough yet to consider this a recurring design problem, and we certainly don't know enough to suggest that the other M-Class ships are likely to suffer from the same problems...

[sal7202]

Speculation is a wonderful thing if you have the luxury. The undeniable fact is that once again a "M" Class ship is out of service and passengers are disappointed. I, frankly, no longer care why.

 

Another undeniable fact is that although this problem has been ongoing since the Millennium first sailed, Celebrity has apparently been unable or unwilling to correct the situation. I am about fed up with them. A wise man once said "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me”. I think Celebrity thinks we're all fools.

[Drew B]

Speculation is a wonderful thing if you have the luxury. The undeniable fact is that once again a "M" Class ship is out of service and passengers are disappointed. I, frankly, no longer care why.

 

Another undeniable fact is that although this problem has been ongoing since the Millennium first sailed, Celebrity has apparently been unable or unwilling to correct the situation. I am about fed up with them. A wise man once said "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me”. I think Celebrity thinks we're all fools.

 

Okay. Princess had one ship out of service due to a fire and another cruise cancelled because the ship listed over to the side. Who cares that the problems were COMPLETELY UNRELATED -- the passengers were still disappointed. Is that the same thing? Does Princess think its passengers are all fools?

 

If you choose to never sail Celebrity again because of the recurring BEARING problem, that's fine. However, to lump a different problem in there and act like it's the same thing is just inaccurate.

[tbelian]

Said it before, saying it again now. Statistically, the odds are in your favor that a cruise on an M class ship will go off without a hitch.

Despite all the griping, when push comes to shove, more cruises have gone on as scheduled than those that have been impacted by this annoying issue. We sailed Infinity to Hawaii without incident, and are not concerned about our upcoming Constellation cruise.

By way of very casual comparison, we recently purchased a Dodge Durango. Despite hundreds of complaints to NHTSA regarding an engine stalling problem with this vehicle, including ours (and other similarly equipped Dodge products), there was no recall. On the other hand, there have been several instances where a dozen or so complaints about other vehicles prompt the manufacturer to either voluntarily, or otherwise recall the product.

If you want 100% guarantees, then to paraphrase an old adage, all you can count on is death and taxes.

[caviargal]

 

I would like to see more regulation of this industry. We can easily find out the number of times a particular flight operates on time, we should be able to easily learn the number of times a particular ship has had a disrupted itin.

 

I would also like to see compensation offered on a per person rather than a per cabin basis. I pay a rate based on the number of people in my stateroom. The offers per cabin are insulting and quite frankly pitiful based on this continued issue.

 

Not all airlines offer this information and many foreign owned airlines do not; nor are they held to the same safety. A few flights on some of these planes are enough to make one very aware:eek:.

 

Same goes for ships that are registered in foreign ports as are the vast majority. They are not accountable to US regulations.

 

Re the compensation, I can see where this can get very complicated. Should it be based on # of people, class of cabin, price paid? The list is long and there is no answer that will please everyone.

 

Perhaps with the advent of Solstice, they will move the M class ships to longer itineraries where the risks might be better tolerated:confused: or at least get less press coverage.

 

There is no good answer here.

[two rabbits]

Speculation is a wonderful thing if you have the luxury. The undeniable fact is that once again a "M" Class ship is out of service and passengers are disappointed. I, frankly, no longer care why.

 

Another undeniable fact is that although this problem has been ongoing since the Millennium first sailed, Celebrity has apparently been unable or unwilling to correct the situation. I am about fed up with them. A wise man once said "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me”. I think Celebrity thinks we're all fools.

 

Sal7202,

Very well put and cutting to the heart of the matter. I am sure there is someone out there who has played Russian roulete once and will swear it is not as dangerous as some people say that it is! From their perspective, in a way I can see their point. The fact that Celebrity has had more than 16 failures of the pod system is indeed an undeniable fact. The fact that this is the fourth pod problem for M-class ships in just over six months is another undeniable fact. Whether its an electrical pod failure or a bearing pod failure is totally immaterial. The fact is, as you said, that the ship is broken down. This kind of a recurring problem has nothing to do, whatsoever, with any other one time events that happen to all cruise lines.

[Drew B]

Sal7202,

Very well put and cutting to the heart of the matter. I am sure there is someone out there who has played Russian roulete once and will swear it is not as dangerous as some people say that it is! From their perspective, in a way I can see their point. The fact that Celebrity has had more than 16 failures of the pod system is indeed an undeniable fact. The fact that this is the fourth pod problem for M-class ships in just over six months is another undeniable fact. Whether its an electrical pod failure or a bearing pod failure is totally immaterial. The fact is, as you said, that the ship is broken down. This kind of a recurring problem has nothing to do, whatsoever, with any other one time events that happen to all cruise lines.

 

That's the whole point! If this is NOT the same problem, then it is NOT a recurring problem and the new problems are potentially one time events just like on other lines. Just because they are both pod problems doesn't make them the same. If a ship rusted through from lack of maintenance or it was struck by a torpedo from a pirate vessel, it would be a TOTALLY different situation, even though both would be HULL problems...

[caviargal]

I was slated to sail Regent 7 Seas Voyager on Dec 4th. !!!!!Cancelled!!!!!

Voyager in drydock with POD problems. Two cruises have been cancelled already ( 11/30 & 12/4)

Voyager went in drydock 11/20 for a scheduled 10 day period to replace bedding & carpets (company line) but seems that was just a cover line.

Drydock from 11/20 to 12/11 is a BIG DEAL don't you think?

 

 

I am on the 12-11 cruise and have my fingers crossed that she sails!

 

The drydock has been scheduled for a very long time to bring the ships up to Regent standards, FYI.

[C 2 C]

I think Celebrity should start offering cruises to nowhere. Just imagine one week cruise just outside of territorial waters. We can have great service, great food and sun and we're just a short tow/push from port when things go wrong. Millennium cruises to places now where so many don't want to go:rolleyes:

Century and Galaxy can be used for cruises that have to get somewhere... the Mercedes of the fleet rather than the Ladas and Yugos we call M-Class...

There must be a design flaw in Constellation... it seems to work OK.

 

I have a question for all the TA lurkers out there... why have cruise agencies not warned their customers about the pod problem? I've known about it for three years because I had a cruise cancelled. Many regulars on cruise critic know about it and take their own risks. I can understand why RCL/Celebrity cruise consultants don't warn away unsuspecting newbies.... but are all the other TAs out there not telling their customers that cruising X ships has these drawbacks?

[mafig]

Good question about the TAs, C2C.:)

[Captain Cosmo]

Hi - just spoke to the Captain's Club at 3:00 PST and they relayed the following information about Infinity:

- The short is in the motor on the starboard side

- Her top speed without this motor is 16 knots as opposed to its usual 22 knots

- Engineers are onboard determining how to repair the motor and new information should be available Wednesday evening (tonight)

- The December 3rd sailing is still scheduled to take place as planned.

 

No telling how much of this is accurate but this is the company line for now.

[caviargal]

 

 

I have a question for all the TA lurkers out there... why have cruise agencies not warned their customers about the pod problem? I've known about it for three years because I had a cruise cancelled. Many regulars on cruise critic know about it and take their own risks. I can understand why RCL/Celebrity cruise consultants don't warn away unsuspecting newbies.... but are all the other TAs out there not telling their customers that cruising X ships has these drawbacks?

 

I consider myself a participant, not a "lurker".:)

 

I will tell you what happened on one recent occasion when I tried to get a client to confirm HAL over Summit based on my concern over pod problems.

 

They called X themselves and were told this was not an issue and not a concern, that I was providing incorrect info.

 

Go figure! Sure made me look credible:(.

[Rev22:17]

Joby,

 

Hi Rev22:17, we are on the 1/22/07 Galaxy together:) Not too much longer!

 

I'm looking forward to meeting you! I do hope that you signed up for the Celebrity Connections party!

 

I'm curious--how the heck do you know so much about the mechanical aspects of the ship???

 

Ths short answer is a combination of educatoin and experience. The long answer is the rest of this post, for those who really want to read it.

 

I went to a little technical institute in Cambridge, Massachusetts, under a Navy ROTC scholarship, graduating with simultaneous degrees of SB in Mathematics and SM in Meteorology and a commission as an Ensign in Uncle Sam's Navy (yes, regular -- not reserve). Now, you have to understand that my choice of Mathematics as an undergraduate major was simply a matter of convenience. Having placed out of the differential and integral calculus, I took multivariate calculus and differential equations simultaneously in the fall semester of my freshman year and my first "serious" math course in the second semester of my freshman year -- leaving only seven courses to fulfill the departmental requirements. This gave me maximum time to go "explore" (or play, depending upon point of view) in other departments of the Institute. I did a fair amount of exploration in the Dpartment of Meteorology, which is what opened the door to the simultaneous master's degree, but I also took several courses in the Department of Ocean Engineering and thus ended up as a teaching assistant in that department during my graduate semester.

 

Alas, during my senior semester, I made the mistake of going to Arlington, Virginia, at the Navy's expense, to interview for the nuclear propulsion program. I realized the mistake as soon as Admiral Rickover's secretary informed me, on the way out of his office, that the Admiral had accepted me into the program, but it was then too late. Upon graduation, I was off to the Navy's Nuclear Power School and Prototype Training, Surface Warfare Officer's School, and twenty-five months of duty as an engineering officer aboard USS Long Beach (CGN-9), the nuclear powered guided missile cruiser, which had just gone into a complex overhaul at Puget Sound Naval Shipyard in Bremerton, Washington. During my tour of duty, the ship got underway twice -- the first time moving into drydock and the second time moving out of drydock -- but we got to take a LOT of stuff apart and put it back together. I also spent some time at sea, both as a midshipman in the Navy ROTC program and in subsequent assignments, so I do have a pretty good knowledge of what's happening on the bridge of a ship and in other places as well.

 

Norm.

[Drew B]

I consider myself a participant, not a "lurker".:)

 

I will tell you what happened on one recent occasion when I tried to get a client to confirm HAL over Summit based on my concern over pod problems.

 

They called X themselves and were told this was not an issue and not a concern, that I was providing incorrect info.

 

Go figure! Sure made me look credible:(.

 

 

I hope that you wrote "http://boards.cruisecritic.com" on a piece of paper and handed it to them!!!

[Rev22:17]

Nurse Bambi,

 

Maybe I am being to simplistic here, but if the failure is caused by a bearing failure in the pods, electircal failure in the pods or a watchmacallit failure in the pods, for me the only important thing is that the pods have failed.

A pod failure means that passengers vacations, once again, could be ruined. While it is very important for those who repair these pods to know exactly what part of the pod has failed, as far as the cruising passenger is concerned, the pods either work or they don't work.

 

Yes, that's pretty much the bottom line -- not only from the passengers' perspective but also from the perspective of the bean counters, the lawyers, and the schedulers who work for the cruise line.

 

That said, anybody who lets a pod failure "ruin" a vacation needs to do some real soul searching. A cancelled port of call means another day At Sea -- and that's the best destination of all!

 

Norm.

[caviargal]

I hope that you wrote "http://boards.cruisecritic.com" on a piece of paper and handed it to them!!!

 

For these folks, computers are more intimidating than useful. They trust a live person more than anything.:(

 

I hope it goes well for them as they are such nice people and this cruise is a real treat for them.

[Lois R]

Joby,

 

 

 

I'm looking forward to meeting you! I do hope that you signed up for the Celebrity Connections party!

 

 

 

Ths short answer is a combination of educatoin and experience. The long answer is the rest of this post, for those who really want to read it.

 

I went to a little technical institute in Cambridge, Massachusetts, under a Navy ROTC scholarship, graduating with simultaneous degrees of SB in Mathematics and SM in Meteorology and a commission as an Ensign in Uncle Sam's Navy (yes, regular -- not reserve). Now, you have to understand that my choice of Mathematics as an undergraduate major was simply a matter of convenience. Having placed out of the differential and integral calculus, I took multivariate calculus and differential equations simultaneously in the fall semester of my freshman year and my first "serious" math course in the second semester of my freshman year -- leaving only seven courses to fulfill the departmental requirements. This gave me maximum time to go "explore" (or play, depending upon point of view) in other departments of the Institute. I did a fair amount of exploration in the Dpartment of Meteorology, which is what opened the door to the simultaneous master's degree, but I also took several courses in the Department of Ocean Engineering and thus ended up as a teaching assistant in that department during my graduate semester.

 

Alas, during my senior semester, I made the mistake of going to Arlington, Virginia, at the Navy's expense, to interview for the nuclear propulsion program. I realized the mistake as soon as Admiral Rickover's secretary informed me, on the way out of his office, that the Admiral had accepted me into the program, but it was then too late. Upon graduation, I was off to the Navy's Nuclear Power School and Prototype Training, Surface Warfare Officer's School, and twenty-five months of duty as an engineering officer aboard USS Long Beach (CGN-9), the nuclear powered guided missile cruiser, which had just gone into a complex overhaul at Puget Sound Naval Shipyard in Bremerton, Washington. During my tour of duty, the ship got underway twice -- the first time moving into drydock and the second time moving out of drydock -- but we got to take a LOT of stuff apart and put it back together. I also spent some time at sea, both as a midshipman in the Navy ROTC program and in subsequent assignments, so I do have a pretty good knowledge of what's happening on the bridge of a ship and in other places as well.

 

Norm.

 

I must say, and this is with all sincerety, I am

impressed.

MIT? And Uncle Sam? Kudos to you...kudos......:)

 

You might be able to fix the problem all on your own;) :D

[Nurse Bambi]

Nurse Bambi,

 

 

 

Yes, that's pretty much the bottom line -- not only from the passengers' perspective but also from the perspective of the bean counters, the lawyers, and the schedulers who work for the cruise line.

 

That said, anybody who lets a pod failure "ruin" a vacation needs to do some real soul searching. A cancelled port of call means another day At Sea -- and that's the best destination of all!

 

Norm.

 

There are many stories of the havoc that the skipping of ports, shortened itinearries and re-arranged itineraries caused by known pod problems has done to ruin cruises. I am certain that I do not have to do any soul searching, nor do others who have had their vacations ruined by the recurring pod problems and I will not presume to speak about those who disagree with me about soul searching. By continuing to market a product that admitdley does have a design defect to the unsuspecting public is to me, not being the caring company that Celebrity used to be. The common sense answer here for Celebrity to stop trying to pretend that pod problems do not exist and step up to the plate and at least warn potential customers about what could happen. With four pod problems in just over six months, I don't think I even need a GED to figure out that there is a serious problem here, and it need to be addressed. A extra, 1 ,2 or three days at sea might be great for some, but I cruise to go somewhere. If I did not want to go anywhere, I would just stay home! I expect to receive what I have paid for (when it is, or should be, within control of Celebrity).

[C 2 C]

I consider myself a participant, not a "lurker".:)

I've read enough of your posts to know that you have expressed your opinions on this matter. All you can do is inform your client of the benefits of all cruise lines and the pitfalls of some ships. I certainly don't rate all Celebrity ships equally. But I have cruised enough to know I prefer X to the other brands while still comparing them for alternatives.

My point was that (I think) more people book cruises through their local travel agencies than direct with X. Since TAs should know what is going on in the industry, TAs should be warning clients just as you have.

I think the problem can't be fixed or the supplier won't pay for the fixing. Celebrity is not going to put $2,000,000,000 (two billion) worth of ships to pasture when, most of the time, they work as expected.

I'm surprised Connie was not used for the S America run because it seems to be the only M-class without this problem. Parking Infinity in the Caribbean would have kept it close to drydock in Freeport.

[Drew B]

Nurse Bambi, have you been on a cruise that was ruined by pod problems yourself or are you just interested in the situation because of what has happened to others?

[Stock Cop]

Hi Norm,

I too served in Admiral Rickover's canoe club. I was a reactor operator on two diff nuke subs. USS Casimir Pulaski SSBN 633 and USS Henry L. Stimson SSBN 655 from 1965 to 1971. I actually met Rickover twice, once at prototype and again on the 633. Hope we get to meet on a cruise someday. I have been on X a few times and, outside of pod problems, I like them pretty well.

 

I currently am a securities examiner for the state of Florida (some career change!!!) Was a Merrill Lynch commodity broker for 15 years also.

Send me your e-mail so I can reach you off the CC board.

 

Rich:cool:

[anniecat]

We'll (hopefully) be on the Infinity Jan 14 BA to Valpariso. We expect to have a great time and see some penguins, some glaciers and get around the horn safely.

If we miss ports due to weather, I'll be disapointed as we have excursions arranged at each port (through X so I don't have to worry about unexpected cancellations losing me $$). But, when ports are cancelled due to X's poor planning for long known pod problems...I won't be just disappointed. I, too, will be pissed.

And, there is a potential that the cruise might be cancelled (I don't expect it, just realize it might happen). And likely we'll already be in BA if it does get cancelled (arriving early). So we have and will continue to research alternative plans. Those plans will probably end up being a very different and more expensive trip, based around pre-paid and not easily changed airflights.

Travel is an adventure...I expect that and easily accept weather, civil unrest, and other unexpected problems as unavoidable 'adventure'.

But....known pod problems, especially in an area that has potentially very rough and wild seas, narrow passages and few ports, seems to be irresponsible.

[Germancruiser]

She is moveing again, hopefully every failures are repaired.

[two rabbits]

We'll (hopefully) be on the Infinity Jan 14 BA to Valpariso. We expect to have a great time and see some penguins, some glaciers and get around the horn safely.

If we miss ports due to weather, I'll be disapointed as we have excursions arranged at each port (through X so I don't have to worry about unexpected cancellations losing me $$). But, when ports are cancelled due to X's poor planning for long known pod problems...I won't be just disappointed. I, too, will be pissed.

And, there is a potential that the cruise might be cancelled (I don't expect it, just realize it might happen). And likely we'll already be in BA if it does get cancelled (arriving early). So we have and will continue to research alternative plans. Those plans will probably end up being a very different and more expensive trip, based around pre-paid and not easily changed airflights.

Travel is an adventure...I expect that and easily accept weather, civil unrest, and other unexpected problems as unavoidable 'adventure'.

But....known pod problems, especially in an area that has potentially very rough and wild seas, narrow passages and few ports, seems to be irresponsible.

anniecat,

 

I agree with your feelings about the "poor planning for long known pod problems". Celebrity has almost six weeks to work on the problem before your cruise. Hopefully, this time it will be an easy repair. Sounds like a fantastic cruise. Have a great time.