Saga Rose Greenland Voyager August 2007

[Druke I]

Can't miss the chance to push this thread over the "1500s" responses.

 

Did you get an answer to your "Soton" question? I think it is just an abbreviation, but perhaps there is more!

 

"Shanks" I am not familiar with.

[Saga Ruby]

Can't miss the chance to push this thread over the "1500s" responses. Did you get an answer to your "Soton" question? I think it is just an abbreviation, but perhaps there is more! "Shanks" I am not familiar with.

 

Thanks, Michael, for doing the honours of hitting 1,500 posts. As always, I am gobsmacked about the success of this ongoing exchange of information and impressions. For me, every day of reading this thread is like the joy of jumping into a cool pool on a hot Texas day in July.

 

Okay, all you Brit lurkers - I need input from the natives about Southampton.

 

Ruby

[Alan2504]

Okay, all you Brit lurkers - I need input from the natives about Southampton.

Ruby

 

OK I'm not a native of Southampton,I hail from the nether northern regions :) but I can confirm that Soton is used as an abbreviation for Southampton

.....as for Shanks?....sorry I'm at loss....I recall we had a bit of bother with someone called Longshanks a long time ago ;)

[Saga Ruby]

Thanks so much, Alan. May I push the envelope and ask if you Brits pronounce it "So - tonne" or "So - tn?" I'm guessing the latter. The "Shanks" thing was a shot taken by an American who wanted to seem British and none of us believed that it was used in the UK or correct.

 

By the bye, is Ecosse in Nova Scotia or is there another Ecosse? I know the Scots consider Nova Scotia as an outpost to Mother Scotland.

 

Ruby

[Alan2504]

Thanks so much, Alan. May I push the envelope and ask if you Brits pronounce it "So - tonne" or "So - tn?" I'm guessing the latter. The "Shanks" thing was a shot taken by an American who wanted to seem British and none of us believed that it was used in the UK or correct.

 

By the bye, is Ecosse in Nova Scotia or is there another Ecosse? I know the Scots consider Nova Scotia as an outpost to Mother Scotland.

 

Ruby

 

I reckon your guess on pronounciation is pretty good...though I believe the "o" becomes more of a "uh".

 

As for Ecosse just a "soubriquet" for Scotland ;)

[dougnewmanatsea]

I'm most certainly not a native of Southampton (or anywhere else in the UK), but I have seen Soton a lot of times and Shanks... Never. To me, Shanks is a brand of bathroom fittings. See here. The original QUEEN MARY fixtures are all Shanks, and there are a lot of Armitage Shanks wash basins etc. on QE2. (I have no idea what the original stuff was - what's there now all dates from the 1990s and 2000s.)

[franu]

One definition that comes to mind is for the term "Shank's Mare" which is defined by some as "on foot". The port in question must be a walking port.

 

The following site has a good explanation. Hope that this is helpful.

 

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-sha4.htm

 

Fran

[engineer38]

In my experience, at university in Southampton for 3 years in the sixties, Soton is used as a written abbreviation, but always spoken as "Southampton" except by cockneys when it comes out more like "Saarfamtun":).

[Saga Ruby]

I reckon your guess on pronounciation is pretty good...though I believe the "o" becomes more of a "uh".

 

"I reckon"? "reckon"? Good one, Alan! And a big Yeeehawww to you from Texas! Did you know that faux Texans are described as "all hat and no cattle?"

 

In my experience, at university in Southampton for 3 years in the sixties, Soton is used as a written abbreviation, but always spoken as "Southampton" except by cockneys when it comes out more like "Saarfamtun":).

 

Quite interesting. I wonder if people have gotten so lazy in their speech nowadays that they actually pronounce it as "Soton." By the bye, you need to post two more notes to be technically "engineer38." Thanks for the input.

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

Cruise Critic's homepage showed a depiction of Genesis' interior superstructure, with apartments overlooking a mini-Central Park. I have that at home, where I face others' apartment across the street, plus the mini-park across the alley. Why should I pay for what I see at home every day? I want to see water, seagulls and marine life. Oh, wait ... no doubt in the future there will be ships even larger than Genesis, with aquariums, 200-feet-tall mini-Niagara Falls and 400-feet-long pools with wave action?

 

Donald.

[Druke I]

Well, they will never find me on one of those behemoths.

 

I still say any ship too large to fit through the current locks of the Panama Canal is too damned big!

[Saga Ruby]

Cruise Critic's homepage showed a depiction of Genesis' interior superstructure, with apartments overlooking a mini-Central Park. Donald.

 

I too was puzzled at the choice of Central Park as a reference for that part of Genesis. Why not call it the Emerald City as a tip of the hat to The Wizard of Oz? After all, nothing is "real" about that monster.

 

I cannot divine the corporate reasoning for using the place name of Central Park on a ship meant to be global, universal. For me, calling the behemoths "apartment barges" was a humourous protest and now the joke has become reality.

 

As we all know, the behemoths are meant to sell hotel rooms on a vessel meant to keep its guests from worrying about being "on the water." It certainly is a proven formula that works for mass market cruisers and it is definitely cheaper than going to a vacation spot on dry land where one cannot book a room and have 3 meals a day for that price. After the initial glow of excitement dims for Genesis, my guess is that prices for cabins will be quite cheap. Uh, reasonable.

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

A columnist in the editorial pages of this morning's Vancouver Sun discussed air travel. She wrote that "the New York Times reported last week that some big U.S. carriers plan to reduce domestic capacity in 2008 with the express goal of driving up airfares to offset rising fuel costs" and that "the place where airline use will actually decline is in North America where we have turned flying into 'buses with wings' mass transportation."

 

Comments, anyone? I would be very interested in seeing recent statistics on air travel in North America. I remember twenty or thirty years ago when it was not uncommon to find aircraft less than a half- or even a third-full. Over the past few years during my air travels I've noticed that Economy Class has been usually over 90% - or even 100% - full.

 

Though this is off the cruise topic, it's nevertheless relevant as we use air travel to go to other ports for cruises.

 

Donald.

[MMDown Under]

I agree "buses, with wings", not even "coaches, with wings"!

 

As if that wasn't enough, full capacity on planes and over zealous security, especially in mainland US, were the death knoll for long distance air travel.

 

As you say, there used to be spare seats on planes, prior to code sharing. We used to regularly travel as a family of four in the four seats across the middle of the plane. We would all sleep most of the way, either in spare seats or I would lie on the floor, with the youngest, whilst the eldest would lie across three seats, with her head on her father's lap. Can't imagine them letting you do that now, not that there is any room between rows anymore!

 

Once flew with Continental and they had a bar where you could sit, whilst you had a drink. Oh yes, plane travel used to be an enjoyable adventure.

 

I'm intrigued why so many airlines are currently going under, when they are flying with fuller capacity than they used to. Could it be that they have overextended themselves with increasing levels of debt?

 

Maybe it will go full circle and the mega cruise ships will become cheaper than airlines for long distance travel. In the 60s it was cheaper to go by sea to Europe from Australia. Only later did plane travel became affordable.

 

BTW They are advertising the first world cruise to commence from Sydney.

[Saga Ruby]

While I recognize the loss of the elegance of aviation as we knew it in years past, I consider myself a realist. My son, the Delta pilot, and I talk all the time about the issues raised herein.

 

One time I was fussing with my son about the cost of an airline ticket. He exploded and said, "Mom, we can’t cover the cost of the fuel for that flight if everyone onboard paid that price!"

 

What puzzles me is that we are all paying so dearly for gas to fill our car’s tanks, we pay more for air-conditioning, for all fuel. As do the airlines. And yet because air travelers have had discount airlines cherry-picking the most profitable routes (LAX to Vegas, NYC to LA, Chicago to Orlando), the major US airlines (legacies) had to match the fares. So they have been hemorrhaging profits for years.

 

In the past week, 2 discounters have folded and Frontier is in Chapter 11. It turns out that common sense was right - pay the fuel costs, make a profit, or go under. Southwest Airlines made a masterful energy move some years ago. They locked in their fuel prices by contract until 2008 when the contracts started expiring and now SWA has to join the other legacies and charge what all the other airlines must charge to keep flying.

 

SWA set the tone for discount airlines and I admire Herb Kelleher, the chairman and CEO of SWA, who changed the reality of air travel. As a fan of free enterprise, I recognize that he found a way to sell cheap tickets with a smile and now we are left with the result. In years past, we all lunged at the low prices SWA offered, multi-millions of passengers responded, and now airplanes are, indeed, buses with a passenger profile much the same.

 

I was and am an interline flyer with Braniff and now Delta. I haven’t been able to fly free in years and I accept that that is the way it is. I don’t fuss about it, I pay my fares like everyone else. When I travel internationally, I try to fly the national airline because countries subsidize their flag carriers and I can fly from Chicago to Istanbul on Turkish Airlines for 40% less than American charges. Digression - I refuse to fly Alitalia which is so bad that no one will buy it.

 

Air fares must must must go up if we are to have legacy airlines fly us where we want to go. As surely as most of us have to sacrifice to put gas in our cars and pay other fuel costs, the airlines at some point have to make a profit to keep flying.

 

Ruby

[Druke I]

I agree that air fares will continue to escalate.

 

As you know, I don't really care for flying - but do it to get from Point A to Point B.

 

If I had my druthers, I'd take the train, when possible - but that said, Amtrak is just a shell of what it could and should be.

[Kapricorn]

My friend in Florida who will be flying to Seattle next September recently found a flight on Delta for an advertised one-way fare of $130, including taxes. I don't understand the rationale for major airlines still doing these kinds of promotions. It's just like shooting themselves in their feet. Does anyone have any idea for the reason behind these kinds of promotions?

 

To MMDown Under, I'm sure that it's the cost of fuel which is the reason for higher airline seat prices. It wasn't too many years ago when it was $50 for a barrel of oil, and now I believe that it is over $100 per barrel.

 

I also remember 35 years ago when I took the red-eye from Vancouver to Montreal that I was able to stretch across three seats for a comfortable sleep. Nowadays, to maintain my comfort level while traveling by air, I am willing to pay premium fare in Business Class. My ghastly experience last month in Economy Class from Dallas to Vancouver did not endear me to that section of aircraft. I still have not received the refund for the difference between Economy and Business Class, but I imagine that with the recent fleet-wide cancellations by American Airlines, its accounting department is awash in nightmare.

 

That's really interesting about the first world cruise to originate in Sydney. There must be a big market now in Australia and New Zealand. What's the name of the ship?

 

Donald.

[Saga Ruby]

If I had my druthers, I'd take the train, when possible - but that said, Amtrak is just a shell of what it could and should be.

 

I know you do not like to fly which is why I admire very much that you and Virginia keep traveling to all the corners of the Earth. Nothing stops you and good on you for that attitude.

 

Does anyone have any idea for the reason behind these kinds of promotions? Donald.

I do! I do! It's competition from other airlines, almost certainly discounters, who cause that situation. Sometimes there are silent price wars with one airline trying to shove the other airline out of their market. You are correct that it seems nutty to make those offers, but the legacies have to compete with the discounters and other competitors.

 

The reason Delta is acquiring Northwest is that international routes do make profits. Northwest has Asia, Delta has Europe. I asked my son if Delta might give up their nonstop to Rome out of ATL before I fly next May and he said, "No way! That's one of the few routes where we make a profit!"

 

Ruby

[Conte Di Savoia]

I have never understood the price structure on planes. Why might have the person sitting next to me been charged a fare which is very different from mine? We're all going to the same place. I recently was pricing some international fares. It was a code share situation and the price for the same flight on the same plane was different depending on whether it was booked with the US based carrier or its international partner. Was that because of the subsidies?

Anyway, I loathe flying.

[MMDown Under]

Kapricorn

 

They are repositioning a lot more ships to Australia now. Some will be circumnativing Australia, others will be cruising the popular Aus-NZ route, as well as the Pacific.

 

Sun Princess is marketing their cruise as "Grand Pacific World Cruise" - 75 nights departing Sydney 14th July 2008.

 

Saga Ruby

 

I wonder if Delta/NW will fly to Australia, under the new Open Skies Agreement between US and Australia. There used to be a lot of US Carriers which flew to Australia, but United is the only one remaining.

 

Unless they increase capacity, I suspect US passengers are going to have difficulty getting seats to fly from US to Australia/NZ to cruise on the increasing number of ships being repositioned to Australia. Even though VAustralia commences flying the US-Aus route later in the year.

 

BTW Delta and North West were my favourite US airlines. Our family once flew Sydney to London direct with North West for double ff points, then used the points to fly to Japan, when we learnt that North West was no longer flying from Australia.

 

Conte Di Savoia

 

Re ticket pricing, I suspect pricing depends on what the market will bear. In Australia, being an island, we have always paid higher for flights and cruises.

 

Because of competition from the Asia/Middle Eastern Carriers, we can fly cheaper to UK, via Asia/Middle East, than to US. In additon, European carriers offer attractive combination fares (economy to Asian gateways, where you can break the long journey, and business to Europe), which beat the new Premium Economy fares being offered by a long shot.

 

My daughter flew through American Airlines on a return Qantas flight from Australia to UK, because of their more generous ff awards, which she later used to fly around US/Canada off season.

[Kapricorn]

They are repositioning a lot more ships to Australia now. Some will be circumnativing Australia, others will be cruising the popular Aus-NZ route, as well as the Pacific.

 

As Australians, would you recommend a circumnavigation of your continent? I imagine that there would be plenty of sea days on that route. Twenty-five years ago I traveled for about a week by air here and there along the east coast, from Melbourne in the south up to Cairns in the north. Which month(s) would be ideal weather-wise?

 

Donald.

[MMDown Under]

Kapricorn, Your prior trip would have given you a nice taste of the east coast.

 

It depends, but probably not. Distances are large in this country so they'd need to spend longer in port.

 

However, it is really a personal choice and there would certainly be lots of sea days.

 

I can see why they are introducing these cruises, as it is common in Australia for grey nomads to do a big trip around the block in a caravan or motor home. For people who have already travelled this route by road, a relaxing cruise could be attractive. Also it would be attractive for those now too old to attempt such a big road trip, which is an Australian dream.

 

Unfortunately, many of the cruises are in the northern winter, which is our summer, which is not the time to travel north (too hot, too wet, cylone season, etc.).

 

The best time to travel north is our winter (your summer), however our summer is an excellent time to visit the south, including Tasmania and NZ.

 

When I cruised from Sydney to Freemantle, nothing was open until the ship left Australian waters after Freemantle, which was a huge disappointment. That might not be the case now. In addition, the Great Australian Bight was up there with the Bay of Biscay for rough seas, and most on the ship were seasick. The return trip across the Nullabor by train Perth to Sydney, however, was one of life's highlights and a great introduction to the Outback.

 

However, we did a repositioning cruise from Sydney to Darwin, which I would highly recommend. It was wonderful to travel through the Great Barrier Reef, around Thursday Island, across the Gulf of Carpentaria to Darwin. We were fortunate to have an excellent pilot on board, who made the cruise an informative educational one. His services were only required for the passage through the Great Barrier Reef, but he stayed the whole cruise.

 

For those short of time, I would recommend what we did one time "an around Australia by air tour" - Cairns, Thursday Island (Punsand Bay), Cairns, Alice Springs (Ayres Rock), Broome (Lombadina and Cape Leveque), Perth (Southern WA), with a week's car hire at each. We have also driven across southern Australia, across the Nullabor, which was a wonderful trip, but this takes time.

 

WA is famous for its wildflowers around September (our Spring), which a beautiful time to travel.

 

Hope this is not too much information.

[Druke I]

Thanks for your insight re 'round Australia cruises.

 

We considered it when Princess 1st announced that Sun Princess would be doing it - even though the usual Princess past pasengers' perks would not apply. When 1st announced, Princess themselves were not sure if they would market the cruise in the US, as they were going to run the ship under the P&O (Aus) flag.

 

We decided not the attempt the circumnavigation at this time, and instead booked a New Zealand/Australia trip on Oceania's Nautica, 1-22-09.

 

Perhaps someday in the future!

[Kapricorn]

Hope this is not too much information.

 

Not at all, I greatly appreciated that you took the time to write these valuable and pertinent information. I now have a much better understanding of your continent.

 

Thanks!

Donald.

[MMDown Under]

I like your choice, as late January is a good time to visit down south and NZ, weatherwise. In addition, most of the long summer school holidays will be finished by then.

 

Bon Voyage!