Parkwest Takes Over Rotterdam's Crow's Nest - Denies Passengers Access

[DFD1]

Radiomark: Thanks for sharing your response from HAL with us.

 

Either HAL Seattle is lying thru their teeth or they have lost control of what is actually taking place on board the Rotterdam.

 

It is clear that events on the ship do not match with what HAL Seattle is saying to you in their response.

 

In either case, the situation is appauling (sp) and should be straightened out with an apology and honest explaination without any more delay.

 

From your email response one thing is clear....HAL is surely aware of the uproar the events on the Rotterdam have caused here. That is a good thing!

[mamaofami]

I too received an email back from HAL. It stated that no public area is completely closed during a cruise, but that in this particular case, arrangements had been made to reserve the area but not for the whole cruise. (I guess technically that is correct since it was open some hours at night).

 

I was also told that if I gave them my booking number for my new cruise, they would look it up and assure me that no group would occupy a public area. (I guess that means that on some cruises, arrangements might have been made to do so).

 

I actually don't have a new cruise booked, but emailed my concerns at the HAL site where it says contact us and then put the topic as new cruise.

[sab490]

I too received an email back from HAL. It stated that no public area is completely closed during a cruise, but that in this particular case, arrangements had been made to reserve the area but not for the whole cruise. (I guess technically that is correct since it was open some hours at night).

 

I was also told that if I gave them my booking number for my new cruise, they would look it up and assure me that no group would occupy a public area. (I guess that means that on some cruises, arrangements might have been made to do so).

 

I actually don't have a new cruise booked, but emailed my concerns at the HAL site where it says contact us and then put the topic as new cruise.

 

Carol, can you give us the e-mail address of whoever promised to look it up with a booking number?

 

- Steve

[mamaofami]

Carol, can you give us the e-mail address of whoever promised to look it up with a booking number?

 

- Steve

 

 

HalReservations@hollandamerica.com

[harbormaster]

Hello: Had a fantastic day in Ephesus - the sites are terrific and we highly recommend that if you go there you also include the Terrace Houses which opened about 8 months ago. They are right in the city of Ephesus and, although there is a separate charge, they are stunning!

Tonight we sail for Rhodes.

We tried to go to the Crow's Nest this morning for the sail in to Kusadasi, at 7:30 am. Signs were up saying, "closed for private function." They did have a gala there last night beginning at 10:30, but we had an early tour with Ekol and went to bed. It is not quite 24 hours, it is just sea days, port days, sailaways, most of the good day times, and it is open after most everyone goes to bed. Open today 9:30 pm to close. I'd like to be able to watch the shore from the loungers. No luck.

X's Millenium and Seabourn's Spirit are in port with us today. About to sail away to Rhodes.

As for suing, I'm on board with my brother in-law who's an attorney. Don't think that will happen. We prefer seeing the ports.

I don't think that HAL home office knows quite what the passenger mood is right now regarding the Crow's Nest. They also don't know when the signs are up and when they are not. Or they don't care, or they've been told not to say. I don't know. We'll try another comment card when we leave.

Living the Dream!!!!

[sab490]

HalReservations@hollandamerica.com

 

Thanks Carol. I just shot off an e-mail reply to their response to my original question, telling them that I did not understand what they were telling me. This time I was more specific in my concerns and request for information and also stressed that I was not alone in my concerns. We shall see what comes back this time.

 

- Steve

[RedmondCruiser]

It appears that the Hotel Manager is not complying with the policies of the home office. Has he gone rogue ? For that sake of 27 cabins he is alienating thousands by his actions. Fire this guy. This debacle needs a point man and he's it. - and deservedly so. The home office states that he is only allowed to monopolize the Crows Nest for 3 sea days and that the Crows Nest is to be totally open for 9 days and to be open from 5PM on on those sea days. (as per ships services - group )

 

It appears that the Hotel Manager is on his own. He is doing a vast disservice to HAL by his actions and needs to be replaced.

[serendipity1499]

Here's part of the response I received from HAL regarding the Crow's Nest on Rotterdam:

 

"...In response to your email, the information on Cruise Critic is incorrect; the Crow's Nest onboard the ms Rotterdam, was only closed off for 4 days out of a 28 day sailing and was only closed for a few hours at a time, for Art Auctions.

 

The ship will only close off certain lounge areas for a few hours throughout the day for meetings and such. No other area will be closed off to the other guests onboard."

 

 

This doesn't exactly mesh with what Harbormaster is reporting...just thought I'd share. I was told that no groups will be taking time away from the Crow's Nest on Statendam's May 20th sailing:) Mark

 

I sent an e-mail to Park West at Sea Sales Mgr. & probably will not receive an answer, but at least I got it off my chest.. I suggest that they look at this post and see exactly what people are saying about this situation.:(

 

It's very possible, as Redmond Cruiser states, that HAL Seattle really does not know the extent of the closure ..They may have even checked with the Rotterdam & were given different information..;) Perhaps the Hotel Manager is not going according to the contract that Seattle made with Park West..But even if it was supposed to be only Sea Days, that still is not right as most passengers would want the use of the Crows nest on Sea Days..I can see closing it off for three hours, plus a cocktaiol party, but not the whole day..

 

Does anyone have the e-mail address of Margaret Binnendyk, Mariner Society's Director?

 

Thanks..Betty

[whm]

I didn't know that their were that many people who bought ibto Park West's line of crap sales pitch to be considered "High Rollers".

[whm]

Ms. Margaret Binnendyk

Director, Mariner Society

Holland America Line

P.O. Box 34985

Seattle, WA 98124

[Copper10-8]

It appears that the Hotel Manager is not complying with the policies of the home office. Has he gone rogue ? For that sake of 27 cabins he is alienating thousands by his actions. Fire this guy. This debacle needs a point man and he's it. - and deservedly so. The home office states that he is only allowed to monopolize the Crows Nest for 3 sea days and that the Crows Nest is to be totally open for 9 days and to be open from 5PM on on those sea days. (as per ships services - group )

 

It appears that the Hotel Manager is on his own. He is doing a vast disservice to HAL by his actions and needs to be replaced.

 

RedmondCruiser; Fire the Hotel Manager?? Why not fire the captain while you're at it? He's in charge of the entire ship! Holy moly! Have you read this entire thread???

 

"HAL Seattle approved for Park West to have exclusive use of the Crow's Nest"

That's "HAL Seattle" as in the folks at the top of the food chain, the ones in charge of the employees, including the hotel manager, on the ship!! Lay of the hotel manager allready, will ya! What would you like the guy to do? Tell his bosses "Up yours with a rubber hose, the Crow's Nest is now open to one and all, screw Park West". That's a career ending move if I've ever seen one.

Park West being in the Crow's Nest on Harbormaster's cruise is a done deal; nobody's gonna change that, especially not the bunch of us here on this site! The best thing Rotterdam's H/M can do is relay the reactions of his pax to the closure of the CN back to Seattle with his recommendations re: any such reservations for the future! HAL Seattle can, if they are so inclined, then re-evaluate their decision for this glorious event, held 2-3 times a year

[6502programmer]

Does anyone have the e-mail address of Margaret Binnendyk, Mariner Society's Director?

 

A quick Google search will answer that question... Look at the first link on the page.

[sab490]

Thanks Carol. I just shot off an e-mail reply to their response to my original question, telling them that I did not understand what they were telling me. This time I was more specific in my concerns and request for information and also stressed that I was not alone in my concerns. We shall see what comes back this time.

 

Well I did get a better response this time:

 

First, let me apologize for your past experience with this type of situation. I realize how upsetting it is not being able to experience the ship as a whole. I do hope your new sailing will be everything you are expecting.

Secondly, I did check with our On-Board Events Department, and was assured there are currently no groups that have exclusive access to the Crow's Nest. Since your last sailing with Holland America, we have put into effect numerous rules and regulations to keep just this type of problem from occurring. One thing to keep in mind though, is that groups who request the area for a few hours (ie. meeting space, party, wedding), will be given access for that block of time. The good and bad of this is, we do not have anyone set up now, but that could change in the future without notice.

 

She then went on to give me a name and number to call closer to our cruise to check again. So the question is, when did they put into effect these "rules and regulations?" If it was a month ago then apparently they do not work. If it was this week, then maybe our voices were heard in Seattle. I guess only time will tell.

 

- Steve

[peaches from georgia]

 

Secondly, I did check with our On-Board Events Department, and was assured there are currently no groups that have exclusive access to the Crow's Nest. Since your last sailing with Holland America, we have put into effect numerous rules and regulations to keep just this type of problem from occurring. One thing to keep in mind though, is that groups who request the area for a few hours (ie. meeting space, party, wedding), will be given access for that block of time. The good and bad of this is, we do not have anyone set up now, but that could change in the future without notice.

 

[/size]

Talk about parsing words. Technically she's not lying, I suppose. The CN is open in the dead of night to all pax, so PWest does not have exclusive access.

[twinkletoes4445]

Defending = sympathizing; "explaining away" = empathizing. IMO, they're different.

 

And I disagree with you. I will say that not all posts who explain why they think HAL is doing this is defending them, but some are. At least IMO.

 

But then, that's all it is...my opinion. Think what you what...and I'll do the same. :)

[RedmondCruiser]

Peaches - you are right, they are parsing words. Their comment leaves the unmistakeable impression that the situation on the Rotterdam would never exist, due to company policy. This is backed up by Ships Services statement that Park West only has access for 3 sea days and then only up to 5PM.

 

Therefore the deviation must come from the ship. Would'nt it be prudent for HAL to contact the ship and inform them that they are not following company policy ?

 

As Morey Saffer says " it just get curiouser and curiouser "

[DFD1]

I have just sent a message asking HAL whether or not there are any groups of more than 50 persons on an upcoming cruise we have booked. I also asked them whether or not the Crow"s Nest is booked for private functions for more than 3 hours on any given day of the cruise.

 

I hope I get an answer.

[hammybee]

Product downsizing is a well established practice where content is reduced without changing the packaging. This practice is most common in hyper- competitive markets that preclude increasing the price of the product, despite the increasing costs to produce it.

 

When this happens, it carries the potential to mislead customers.

 

Resort hotels have practiced their version of product downsizing, for years. Accommodations shrink without prior notice to guests. Swimming pools and golf courses are sometimes designated for the exclusive use of a special interest group. Guests are not told of this in advance and oftentimes there are no alternatives.

 

When this happens, it carries the potential to mislead customers.

 

Cruise lines, designating otherwise public space for the exclusive and majority use by a special interest group, is a variation of this theme.

 

When this happens, it carries the potential to mislead customers.

 

Most of us have financial investments of some sort. We are direct or indirect partial owners of companies via stock, mutual funds and pension/retirement plans. Some of us probably rely upon the return on our investments to support our cruise habit. Most of us are not aware why our investment is profitable, or not. Instead we focus on the bottom line.

 

Markets (investors) generally react favorably to news of a company taking action to control their costs. Such actions often include wage freezes, employee benefit give-backs, downsizing through attrition, lay-offs and outsourcing to third world companies who will do more, for less. That consumers increasingly communicate with people on the other end of the world for customer service is no accident. Investors demand companies take continuous actions to reduce the cost of their product to increase the return on their investment.

 

Investors care about “what’s in it for me” (WIFM), no different than consumers. That we are the beneficiary and victim of such practices eludes some people.

 

I make no excuse for behaviors to mislead customers.

[twinkletoes4445]

I have just sent a message asking HAL whether or not there are any groups of more than 50 persons on an upcoming cruise we have booked. I also asked them whether or not the Crow"s Nest is booked for private functions for more than 3 hours on any given day of the cruise.

 

I hope I get an answer.

 

It will be interesting to see if you hear anything...but I would bet you don't. I would imagine they can say it's a privacy thing. I am sure they have their rears covered to their best advantage.

 

But what will be interesting is to see if they pay any attention to the phone calls, and when this info shows up in travel magazines. A little bad PR goes a long way.

 

For you...I hope you're group free...or at least no one "rents" any of the major public spaces.

[AWED23]

The following is the reply that I received yesterday...Professional and courteous as always. I feel that by this afternoon I will receive the follow-up.

 

Thank you for your message. I want to give you an accurate response and

appreciate your patience while we communicate with the ship. There

seems to be a lot of inaccurate information about the Crow's Nest issue

going around and I don't want to add to it. Since it is now 1am

on board I will be back in touch with you tomorrow.

 

On a more pleasant note, we may well meet while you are on the

Prinsendam, possibly in Namibia. Please don't hold me to that as things

are still in the planning stages. If/when we do meet, I will buy you a

drink in the Crow's Nest!

 

Best regards,

Margaret Binnendyk

Director, Mariner Society

The above was in response to this:

to spend my cruise dollars...Please convey my displeasure with this new

policy to whomever might be of interest...I feel that turning over to Park

West the exclusive usage of the crows nest was a very shortsighted decision.

Bad customer relations and very poor ethics in the sense that the Crows Nest

is featured in your brochures and text....No amount of fine print can cover

it up. ...HAL needs to communicate quickly on this to its many loyal

Mariners that it will not happen again....Thank You for being there.....Rob

 

My response to Margarets reply:Good morning Margaret....Thank You for your prompt reply, I shall await any

enlightening information that You can give...Namibia, if You can be there I

will buy us a bottle of Dom P.....!!!!...Rob. [Cabin 14 but beware of my

wife!].....Thanks again.

[6502programmer]

The only thing that will remedy this situation will be the unflinching light of scrutiny. Unfortunately for the passengers on this cruise, that scrutiny will likely not happen until well after they've debarked for the last time. I've sent this over to the fine folks at the Consumerist blog. They love shining the light of inquiry on companies trying to shaft consumers. I don't know that this will be posted by them, but if it is, that's one more loud voice against this treatment.

[desmon]

Based on information on this board I tried to email HAL, but got this back:

 

Delivery to the following recipients failed.

HalReservations@hollandamerica.com

 

Does anyone know if this email is correct?

[sab490]

Based on information on this board I tried to email HAL, but got this back:

 

Delivery to the following recipients failed.

HalReservations@hollandamerica.com

 

Does anyone know if this email is correct?

 

Hal_Reservations@hollandamerica.com (underscore between Hal & Reservations)

 

- Steve

[desmon]

"Hal_Reservations@hollandamerica.com (underscore between Hal & Reservations"

 

Thanks for the information - we'll see what kind of response I receive.:)

[AWED23]

As far as I personally am concerned this reply to me from Margaret Binnendyk satisfies my concerns...I feel that this will be handled by Seattle. Margaret, as director of the Mariners Society has stepped up to the plate and done her job. Her email :

This is an excerpt from a letter going to guests currently on the Rotterdam who expressed concern over Crow's Nest issues:

We have re-scheduled group events on most days to accommodate all of our guests. With the exception of May

11 and 13th during the day, the Crow’s Nest will be open to all guests at all hours.

We are very sorry our group arrangements resulted in a less that extraordinary cruise experience for

you during this cruise.

 

 

There was a lot of mis-information on Cruise Critic. The ship has actually had 9 guests express concerns to the staff or via "We Care cards". Cruise Critic on the other hand had over 300 postings, maybe 400 by now, and over 11,000 "hits" to the message stream. This is not necessarily enlightening but no doubt a new

brouhaha (what a great word) is on the horizon as this "crisis" winds down. All kidding aside, we are sorry this situation ever happened and we learned from it.

Let's have 2 bottles of Dom and invite your wife! :-) See you in Namibia - or somewhere during your cruise.

Best regards,

Margaret