Parkwest Takes Over Rotterdam's Crow's Nest - Denies Passengers Access

[Stacey779]

First of all, Harbormaster, I am glad you have the right attitude and will not let this ruin your cruise. But second, does this type of things happen on other cruise lines as well? I've never experienced it on the other 5 cruises I've been on, but I sailed on RCL, Carnival, and Celebrity. We were thinking of booking a cruise on the Oosterdam in the fall, but this is making me think twice. :(

[AWED23]

After much mulling and muttering the word rabble, rabble many times over, I have emailed Margaret Binnendyk at the Mariners society to express my displeasure with the current brouhaha aboard the Rotterdam...I asked that it be forwarded to all parties she feels may be interested in what one of their "VIP" designatees with over 350 suite days has to say....I was advised to do this by someone on the "inside" whose opinion I respect... I suggest we all make our voices known to management....They need our input as loyal HAL cruisers....:confused:

[desmon]

Just had to post. Being denied use of any of the promised amenities for an entire cruise would upset me greatly too, so can someone give us the email address for Margaret Binnendyk at the Mariners society?

[eldercruser]

I have just passed my concern via the Mariner email form available on the HAL website. We'll see if it ever sees the light of day. I'm not holding my breath waiting for an answer.

http://www.hollandamerica.com/contacts/cmpyList.do

[Grumpy1]

It's been stated that some HAL employees stated that they were not allowed to discuss the situation, and senior employees have been ducking the issue. In other words, HAL doesn't seem too happy about the situation either. It makes me wonder if Park West has some language buried in their contract with HAL that allows them to request other venues on the ship for special events. If so, HAL could be in violation of the contract if they do not comply with the request. It doesn't make it right, but could be a reason why. Princess has already abandoned PW @ Sea according to another post. Perhaps HAL will be doing likewise and PW doesn't care who they alienate. Like Hammybee, I always like to know "why" things happen. I've had a saying for many years that I've used many times when someone does something really really stupid... "It won't be a problem explaining how it happened, but why is going to be a lot tougher."

 

As a general rule, groups on board do not have any planned activities on port days during the hours the ship is in port. Activities start up again at sailaway. So HAL could well be technically correct when they said that the Crow's Nest was not blocked all of the time. I'll bet you could walk in anytime while the ship is in port. But then, who wants to?

 

Do the small number of voices here matter? Damn right they do! Listen to the evening news. Time after time they will tell you that their poll of 1000 to 2000 people accurately reflects the mood of all 300 million people (plus or minus 3 percentage points) What is said here is being said on other boards and being thought by people that never post but still vote with their dollars. I'm sure HAL recognizes that this group is not a perfect sample, but that we do reflect the mood of most cruisers (plus or minus 5 percentage points):D

[mamaofami]

Does anyone really know for sure that someone from HAL really reads these posts?

[RetiredMustang]

I've had a saying for many years that I've used many times when someone does something really really stupid... "It won't be a problem explaining how it happened, but why is going to be a lot tougher."

 

 

Grumpy1,

 

Reminds me of a quotation whose source I don't remember right now, but it was probably either Isaac Asimov or Robert A. Heinlein: "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."

 

Dave

[Grumpy1]

Does anyone really know for sure that someone from HAL really reads these posts?

Yes, I have personally been told by people from HQ that they have read certain things here and have passed information to other departments. I have also called someone's attention to a particular thread on occasion. I know others here that have similar experiences. Does every thread get attention? No, not likely. But you can bet this one will cross a few desks.

[Grumpy1]

Grumpy1,

 

Reminds me of a quotation whose source I don't remember right now, but it was probably either Isaac Asimov or Robert A. Heinlein: "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."

 

Dave

ROTFL!:D

[Mary Ellen]

It's been stated that some HAL employees stated that they were not allowed to discuss the situation, and senior employees have been ducking the issue. In other words, HAL doesn't seem too happy about the situation either. It makes me wonder if Park West has some language buried in their contract with HAL that allows them to request other venues on the ship for special events.

It isn't just Park West that HAL is allowing to have sole use of the Crow's Nest. In my neighbors case there was a large group on board for a "Poker Tournament Cruise". Poker was played ALL day and night - in the Crow's Nest. If you weren't part of the group, you didn't get in. HAL booked the group knowing they needed space to play poker. Presumably HAL had the location set up when the group was booked.

[twinkletoes4445]

After much mulling and muttering the word rabble, rabble many times over, I have emailed Margaret Binnendyk at the Mariners society to express my displeasure with the current brouhaha aboard the Rotterdam...I asked that it be forwarded to all parties she feels may be interested in what one of their "VIP" designatees with over 350 suite days has to say....I was advised to do this by someone on the "inside" whose opinion I respect... I suggest we all make our voices known to management....They need our input as loyal HAL cruisers....:confused:

 

I called HAL today. It will be interesting to see if I hear anything more about this.

[DFD1]

Betty: Thank you for the two gallery related email addresses. I've just sent messages to both.

[twinkletoes4445]

Does anyone really know for sure that someone from HAL really reads these posts?

 

I mentioned this is where I found this info, and the person I spoke with at HAL made a note of this. If they were smart, they have someone check the threads every now and then. Not that they need to read each and every thread, but there is sure a lot of opinions on HAL is doing...good and bad.

[twinkletoes4445]

I really haven't seen anyone here really defending HAL's actions. Some have tried to explain them. I think some of us just disagree on how important an issue this is and whether there is anything we can do to change or prevent this.

 

- Steve

 

Defending...explaining away...IMO, that's the same thing.

[richwmn]

Grumpy1,

 

Reminds me of a quotation whose source I don't remember right now, but it was probably either Isaac Asimov or Robert A. Heinlein: "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."

 

Dave

 

One of the ways in which it is summarized is known as Hanlon’s Razor: «Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.» The same concept was confirmed by Robert Heinlein in a shorter and simpler statement: «Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.»

[RetiredMustang]

One of the ways in which it is summarized is known as Hanlon’s Razor: «Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.» The same concept was confirmed by Robert Heinlein in a shorter and simpler statement: «Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.»

 

richwmn,

 

That's it! I've heard both, but prefer the shorter. If it's not from the notebook of Lazarus Long, it should be. Note my sig for my favorite quotation from that notebook.

 

Dave

[sab490]

Defending...explaining away...IMO, that's the same thing.

 

"Explain" is NOT the same and "explaining away" and I have only seen posts attempting to explain, but not explain away. Big difference.

[richwmn]

richwmn,

 

That's it! I've heard both, but prefer the shorter. If it's not from the notebook of Lazarus Long, it should be. Note my sig for my favorite quotation from that notebook.

 

Dave

It is the last quote in the first section of the notebook as it appears in Time Enough for Love.

 

One I like appears earlier in that section

Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks.

 

Rich

[twinkletoes4445]

"Explain" is NOT the same and "explaining away" and I have only seen posts attempting to explain, but not explain away. Big difference.

 

You can think whatever you want, I just don't happen to agree with you. We don't agree. I am not going to argue with you about this. Spare me the caps. It's not going to get me to change my mind...nor do I expect you to see things my way.

[RedmondCruiser]

To Grumpy --- Right On !! -- Unfortunetly we will never hear the back story to this debacle. Right now we have about three different stories coming out of HAL, both from the home office and from the ship. The problem is that no one at HAL will fess up to this disaster nor will fix it.

 

The likely senerio is that someone from group services said to an underling " Park West wants royal treatment -- make them happy" Now that it has hit the fan the person on top will say " well thats not what I meant". As in most things some underling will take the heat and the blame.

 

This is were good management takes command and rectifies the situation. Unfortunetly HAL is sadly lacking at this time.

[serendipity1499]

Betty: Thank you for the two gallery related email addresses. I've just sent messages to both.

 

Your Welcome..I sent a message also, but it seems that the message at Plymouth Auctioneering automatically goes to Park West..I addressed my e-mail to the attention of the Park West at Sea Sales Manager & referred to the almost 11,000 readers of this thread in less than a week...

 

I may or may not get a reply, but hopefully they will understand why so many of us are very unhappy with the trend..:(

[Radiomark]

Here's part of the response I received from HAL regarding the Crow's Nest on Rotterdam:

 

"...In response to your email, the information on Cruise Critic is incorrect; the Crow's Nest onboard the ms Rotterdam, was only closed off for 4 days out of a 28 day sailing and was only closed for a few hours at a time, for Art Auctions.

 

The ship will only close off certain lounge areas for a few hours throughout the day for meetings and such. No other area will be closed off to the other guests onboard."

 

This doesn't exactly mesh with what Harbormaster is reporting...just thought I'd share. I was told that no groups will be taking time away from the Crow's Nest on Statendam's May 20th sailing:)

 

Mark

[IheartHAL]

Defending...explaining away...IMO, that's the same thing.

 

Defending = sympathizing; "explaining away" = empathizing. IMO, they're different.

 

Even though I understand why HAL may view the extension of special interest groups exclusive use of facilities such as the Crow's Nest to be good business sense, as an independent passenger I would be livid if I discovered I'd be denied access to that venue for much of my cruise. If I paid for a suite entitling me to use of the Neptune Lounge, I would certainly be p.o.'d about the "art installations" (that stinks!) After a few cocktails, one might trip over some easels;) . I don't cruise to be subjected to the same restrictions I might run into at a land-based resort. In the confines of a ship, it only adds insult to injury! If this is truly becoming "the way of the world" on the large ships, I am happy to pay more, and maybe cruise less often, on smaller ships where I am less likely to run into this nonsense...but that's just me...

 

Oh, and by the way, I have purchased art from Parkwest onboard:o :o :o :o

[Chivalrygirl]

Here's part of the response I received from HAL regarding the Crow's Nest on Rotterdam:

 

"...In response to your email, the information on Cruise Critic is incorrect; the Crow's Nest onboard the ms Rotterdam, was only closed off for 4 days out of a 28 day sailing and was only closed for a few hours at a time, for Art Auctions.

 

The ship will only close off certain lounge areas for a few hours throughout the day for meetings and such. No other area will be closed off to the other guests onboard."

 

 

This doesn't exactly mesh with what Harbormaster is reporting...just thought I'd share. I was told that no groups will be taking time away from the Crow's Nest on Statendam's May 20th sailing:)

 

Mark

 

Can I ask why you are only showing part of the email you received, why not the whole email ?

[Krazy Kruizers]

This is getting better and better.