Parkwest Takes Over Rotterdam's Crow's Nest - Denies Passengers Access

[AWED23]

One thing I forgot to include in my last post. The Hotel Manager did say that they "have a group of 27 that ParkWest is hosting." Whether this means 27 people or 27 cabins of people I'm not sure.

:confused: Have you considered legal action?...Were I in your place I would have had an injunction filed in Seattle as well as a suit for complete refund. I would also make sure Travel&Leisure and Conde Nast had the facts...This is WRONG and teeny, tiny print in the contract does not excuse it....Sorry to rant but this disturbs me greatly...And no ammount of Short Term Profit excuses poor judgement in Seattle...

[AWED23]

Here's one from L.A.:

 

 

NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE

NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE

NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE

:D SUE the BASTARDS !!!!:D

[AWED23]

True. We do ask why the US practiced slavery for so long even though it was economically unfeasible. We ask why Hitler wanted to exterminate the Jews. We ask why we have to stop at a red light if there's no cross traffic. We ask why there are dress codes in the dining room. We ask why there are so few summer cruises in the Caribbean. We ask why fools fall in love. But it really doesn't matter what the answer is, because the essential rightness or wrongness of the action shines through.

 

No one is denying that there may be a why which, viewed through some obscure lens, shows the action to be both right and proper. What we're stating is that there is no such lens for this particular action.

Hammybee's "facts" are distorted....Ethics and customer relations demand that closing of the Crows nest only be done for very limited time periods. Allowing Park West to run roughshod over full fare paying guests regardless of cabin category is just plain poor management....Thanks for your sanity Dave....Rob..

[sail7seas]

The Hotel Manager Willem Cruijsberg is no 'rookie'. He has been with the company a long time. If I recall correctly, he was take out Hotel Manager for Zuiderdam and maybe Westerdam as well. We have sailed with him several times. He has a boss and like most who work for a boss, follows the orders he is given in certain situations.

 

I still think it unacceptable that CrowsNest was taken from 99% of the guests but do not necessarily personally blame the Hotel Manager for not being able to 'make it right'.

 

Copper........ Thanks very much for your post. Very helpful.

 

[sail7seas]

Harbormaster.....

 

I so respect your calm reporting of what is occuring aboard Rotterdam and admire your focus on the high points and enjoyable parts of your cruise. You seem to have succeeded at putting the CrowsNest issue into a perspective that permits you to continue enjoying the rest of the ship.

 

I hope every other facet of your cruise is wonderful and you see amazing places and meet wonderful people. It is always great to hear when crew go that extra mile to try to please and balance what they know is not exactly how it should be aboard. Kudos to the Lido Chef who put those steaks on the grill for you. That is what is typical HAL great service/great crew IMO

And it means so much!!!!

 

[eldercruser]

No doubt in my mind - If HAL officials do not adequately address this issue my last HAL cruise will be on 30 May. I guarantee you it will be addressed by me aboard the Rotterdam at that time.

 

I thank Harbormaster for his excellent and forthright reporting.

[TMJplus1]

Maybe that will be the next money maker. An auction at the begining of the cruise to auction off exclusive rights to various venues. :D

 

You know, this would be an excellent way to pass the time while standing in the embarkation line! They could hire an auctioneer (perhaps the Park West people would be available) to stand on a raised podium at the pier terminal and we could bid on all sorts of things. It wouldn't have to stop with premium onboard venues, either. Why, just think of the things for which you could pay a "premium" -- priority deck chair use on the lido, first in line at the chocolate buffet, premium seating in the show lounge, the ability to opt out of the muster drill...these are all things I'd be willing to bid on!

[twinkletoes4445]

Hammybee's "facts" are distorted....Ethics and customer relations demand that closing of the Crows nest only be done for very limited time periods. Allowing Park West to run roughshod over full fare paying guests regardless of cabin category is just plain poor management....Thanks for your sanity Dave....Rob..

 

I think closing any area for a short period of time, would be fine. But not 24/7, nor the Crow's Nest. It's a great place, and it's unfair to the others who have paid for access to this area.

 

But this is wrong. And Park West is running roughshod over everyone else, with HAL's blessings. If HAL thinks so little of its individual customers, that they are willing to do this sort of thing, then HAL most likely is going to end up with only groups or charters on their ships. I would imagine they are testing the waters to see how people will react. If they can make extra money at the expense of some of the customers, and those customers don't squak about it, they are going to continue to do so.

 

Some defend HAL's actions...why, I don't know...because if you give these companies an inch, they are going to take a mile.

[sab490]

I think closing any area for a short period of time, would be fine. But not 24/7, nor the Crow's Nest. It's a great place, and it's unfair to the others who have paid for access to this area.

 

But this is wrong. And Park West is running roughshod over everyone else, with HAL's blessings. If HAL thinks so little of its individual customers, that they are willing to do this sort of thing, then HAL most likely is going to end up with only groups or charters on their ships. I would imagine they are testing the waters to see how people will react. If they can make extra money at the expense of some of the customers, and those customers don't squak about it, they are going to continue to do so.

 

Some defend HAL's actions...why, I don't know...because if you give these companies an inch, they are going to take a mile.

 

I really haven't seen anyone here really defending HAL's actions. Some have tried to explain them. I think some of us just disagree on how important an issue this is and whether there is anything we can do to change or prevent this.

 

- Steve

[Old As Dirt Mom]

Maybe this helps:

 

Two or three times a year - on every cruise line that Park West works with (isn't that just about all of them?) they invite their biggest customers for a special VIP Cruise. The customers get some great deals, great perks, great gifts, and are invited to bid on special - read expensive - works of art.

 

HAL Seattle approved for them to have exclusive use of the Crow's Nest (there you have it!:rolleyes: ). The OP did have some of his info wrong in his initial post: The Crows Nest is not reserved for Park West employees - rather for their biggest customers of the year.

 

That's it; please resume the demonstrations!;)

 

 

 

 

The above are Copper's facts, and I'm sure he got them from a good source. As I understand it, what's happening on the Rotterdam with the Crow's Nest is the exception, not common practice. The Crow's Nest is being put aside for some of Holland America's and Park West's top clientele, who are our fellow (albeit immensely wealthy) cruisers. The Park West cruise ship art auctions, whether we like it or not, are big money makers for HAL (and for themselves, of course).

 

In the real business world, like it or not, agree with it or not, the big money talks. It's not a very uplifting thought. Holland America is a business, according to some just another greedy, money-grubbing, profit-seeking, worker-exploiting evil entity:eek: . If you don't like it, you can sell your CCL stock and take the high road as Twinkletoes did, and simply refuse to cruise HAL. I salute those of you who have declared that you will no longer cruise HAL because of HAL's decision to close off the Crow's Nest during the day on Harbormaster's cruise, and I admire your probity, integrity, and dedication to justice. I wish you well.

 

Because I am a morally compromised, short-sighted, self-indulgent, weak-minded, materialistic corporate pawn, I plan to continue cruising HAL. I have one cruise coming up, and another two booked down the road: one for 2008 and one for 2009. Nobody's told me yet that I can only sail HAL as a member of a group or charter, so I have to assume they still want my paltry individual booking.

 

Mea Culpa.

 

Karin

[sab490]

........Because I am a morally compromised, short-sighted, self-indulgent, weak-minded, materialistic corporate pawn, I plan to continue cruising HAL. I have one cruise coming up, and another two booked down the road: one for 2008 and one for 2009. Nobody's told me yet that I can only sail HAL as a member of a group or charter, so I have to assume they still want my paltry individual booking.

 

Mea Culpa.

 

Karin

 

Me too Karin. Of course I have an advantage over most of the regulars here. Even without the use of the Crow's Nest, our Noordam cruise last December (our first on HAL) was our best cruise ever. Since we were denied access, I really don't know what I missed! My disappointment was based entirely on all the things I read about it here on CC. So I am looking forward to our next Noordam cruise in December with the hope that I will finally get to see what all the fuss is about. If lightening does strike twice and Park West @ Sea or some other priveleged group denies me acess, I will still have a great cruise. I just refuse to cut off my nose to spite my face.

 

Sure HAL is wrong and it makes me angry. But IMO HAL is still the best product out there with or without the Crow's Nest.

 

- Steve

[DFD1]

For HAL to deprive passengers the use of the Crow's Nest without first advising them and giving them an opportunity to cancel or rebook is a repugnant example of passenger abuse and corporate greed.

 

They have a business obligation to provide what they advertise and the Crow's Nest is sold as an important part of a HAL cruise.

 

If passengers to not react to this in such a way as to clearly let management know that such practices are unacceptable, they will continue and increase.

 

We are not to the point yet of canceling our cruises, but we will try our best to find out if significant parts of the ship are off limits on the dates we are booked. If we find that they have pulled a stunt like this on one of those cruises, we will cancel the cruise on the day before final payment and book with another cruise line.

[Orcrone]

As mentioned on this thread, on prior pages, the Hotel Manager should be fired. To play stupid, like this was the first he had heard of it --- give me a break. If this is the way he approaches his job, then he is not doing his job.

This may be true. He probably realized that there were going to be complaints about this and that he was not authorized to do anything (reopen the Crow's Nest, offer SBC, etc.) about it. So he may have left orders to not even forward comment cards or complaints to him regarding this situation.

 

So he may have been honest when he said he had not received the comment cards.:rolleyes:

[Mary Ellen]

As I understand it, what's happening on the Rotterdam with the Crow's Nest is the exception, not common practice.

Let's see. We have the current situation on the Rotterdam getting very limited access to the Crow's Nest, my neighbors had NO access 24/7 on the Oosterdam this past December and now sab490/Steve mentions being denied access (no mention of the duration) on the Noordam - also this past December. There are at least 2-3 cases within the past 6 months - that we know of. There are not CC posters on every HAL cruise This may be a trend developing. :mad:

 

I've made cruise line decisions based on the Crow's Nest (Alaska cruises). We've paid more to go on HAL rather than lines that don't have that type of venue/location. As it stands right now, I see no reason to look beyond price.

[grandmaof2]

what any of us thinks? do you think that a few people not sailing HAL is going to change anything? or maybe it will and they wont close the crows nest. However, they will do something else equally as annoying, if it means more $$$ for HAL. The disregard for the passangers is obvious..Soooo, my solution: choose another cruise line! there are lines that are as good or better, as well priced or better. I dont need to spend my hard earned money here....its just as good on other lines! Meanwhile, they may eventually get it (REAL customer service) or not but I will have had as good a time or better somewhere else!!!!!:rolleyes:

[RedmondCruiser]

As per Ships Services - Group Dept. ----- "The Park West Group only has sole access to the Crows Nest on sea days only (thats three days) and that all passengers have access to the Crows Nest after 5:00PM. On the other nine days the Crows Nest is totally open" Also Park West has one cocktail party scheduled.

 

also please be advised that Ships Services was NOT very convincing. I tend to find Harbormaster much more credible.

 

If it is true then the Hotel Manager is not well informed by the home office and I thought that was an important part of his job.

[serendipity1499]

Let's see. We have the current situation on the Rotterdam getting very limited access to the Crow's Nest, my neighbors had NO access 24/7 on the Oosterdam this past December and now sab490/Steve mentions being denied access (no mention of the duration) on the Noordam - also this past December. There are at least 2-3 cases within the past 6 months - that we know of. There are not CC posters on every HAL cruise This may be a trend developing. :mad:

 

Mary Ellen, I agree with you, this may be a trend developing..:(

 

This is the second time in this thread that a Poster has stated this is an exception rather than the rule..Wonder if they read all the posts..

 

Just on this thread alone there are three different cases where the Posters stated Park West had exclusive use of the Crow's Nest.. Post #1 (Rotterdam), Post #9 Noordam, & Post #11 Oosterdam since Dec....Three cases in four months is not just one exception it's a trend, which I am very unhappy about!

 

And as far as I'm concerned it's not hearsay! If it looks like a Duck, Quacks like a Duck & Walks like a Duck then it Must be a Duck..:rolleyes:

 

Wonder what would happen if Park West On-line were to get e-mails from all those who not only posted, but also read this thread about their dissatisfaction with this policy..;)

 

Actually Plymouth Auctioneering provides services for Park West at Sea...They provide the Auctioneers & say they have been chosen by more than 63 cruise ships to provide art auctioneers aboard vessels around the world. We could all apply to become Auctioneers! The salary they are quoting is six figures!

 

http://www.plymouthauctioneering.com

 

http://www.parkwestgallery.com/

 

Yes I know, I'm a troublemaker:) ..Betty

[sab490]

As per Ships Services - Group Dept. ----- "The Park West Group only has sole access to the Crows Nest on sea days only (thats three days) and that all passengers have access to the Crows Nest after 5:00PM. On the other nine days the Crows Nest is totally open" Also Park West has one cocktail party scheduled.

 

also please be advised that Ships Services was NOT very convincing. I tend to find Harbormaster much more credible.

 

If it is true then the Hotel Manager is not well informed by the home office and I thought that was an important part of his job.

 

Wow! This raises all sorts of questions. Given that we know this does not reflect the reality of the situation (I trust Harbormaster's reports), maybe this is what HAL originally agreed to and Park West raised a stink and got someone (Seattle? Hotel Manager?) to cave in? Who knows! At any rate, IMO this answer is worse than no answer at all! :mad:

 

By the way, according to Navy_Chief's review of our Noordam cruise, Park West had the Crow's Nest for 3 of 4 sea days and during sailaway from NYC. All I know is every time we went up there, the doors were closed and the reserved sign was up.

 

- Steve

[gizmo]

Ship Sevices's reply doesn't surprise me. There is always lack of communication between Seattle and the ship.

 

Harbormaster has attempted to use the Crows Nest during sail aways. That is not a sea day.

[Orcrone]

Ship Sevices's reply doesn't surprise me. There is always lack of communication between Seattle and the ship.

 

Harbormaster has attempted to use the Crows Nest during sail aways. That is not a sea day.

Since the ship is always in the water then perhaps they consider everyday to be a sea day.:rolleyes: :eek:

[RuthC]

Marc, go to your room. :rolleyes:

[Spinner2]

if you google "rotterdam parkwest" you'll see that this very thread is #1 in the results. It's opening on page 11.

 

Now, what do we have to do to get people to google on those 2 words--to spread the word about what's happening? Those considering a cruise just might, but unless you're already aware of this situation, it's not likely anyone would think to do it.

[Addict]

We are taking our first cruise with HAL this Christmas and these reports are very worrying - we booked based on what we are told is offered in the brochures.

 

IF we pay by credit card (don't like doing really due to the charges), but surely the credit card company will take this up with HAL if you tell them you didn't get what you paid for? At the end of the day the brochure is proof of what you are promised. No?

 

If enough credit card companies get on HALs back, they might just get the point! We want what we paid for!

[gizmo]

Since the ship is always in the water then perhaps they consider everyday to be a sea day.:rolleyes: :eek:

 

ROTFLMAO :D

[Lefty Bob]

Short term - smart (money, money, money):)

 

Long term - foolish (less demand for HAL cruising):confused:

 

LB