Parkwest Takes Over Rotterdam's Crow's Nest - Denies Passengers Access

leoandhugh · May 7, 2007

Although I may have been the first to characterize hammybee as "defending" HALs position, I see that I am not the only one, despite her protestations to the contrary. Understanding someone elses position on a business decision does not make that decision "right" for the customer. Perhaps the majority of HALs loyal repeaters would prefer such subsidizing included in their cruise fare instead of being barred from public rooms for a whole cruise. And hopefully HAL will take a good hard look at the furor they have created:) They are a profit making company, and rightly so, but to make profits, you need repeat customers who will spread the good word and not bad mouth.

Odd Ball · May 7, 2007

I guess, unlike some, I appreciate knowing why corporations and/or people do what they do, when they do it. Understanding why, does not mean I agree with the outcome.

I am in agreement that the whole Park West @ Sea thing has gone too far. Nothing I have said states otherwise.

This is not intended as a flame or an attack.

The majority of your posts do read like you are defending Hal and justifying what they have done.

Perhaps you don't intend them to, but they read as though you are making excuses for Hal.

DFD1 · May 7, 2007

I've been away for three days and have just gotten caught up on this thread.

The more I read and learn about the situation on board the Rotterdam, the more disgusted I am with HAL....Now, the Neptune Lounge, too.

...And, for them to refuse a passenger inquirey about the availability of the Crow's Nest on an upcoming cruise and to suggest the passenger could, in effect "just go someplace else on the ship" is outrageous.

When we book a cruise with HAL, we book what they advertise, we book the ship and all it's conveniences, not just whatever HAL casually decides to make available to us at that particular moment.

In my opinion, if this is what HAL has become, it no longer deserves the remarkable loyalty which so many repeat passengers have shown. That loyalty which has been the very lifeblood of HAL for so may years.

What in h--- are they thinking!

Old As Dirt Mom · May 7, 2007

Who are HAL's loyal customers? Are they Cruise Critic members?

In 2006, the cruise lines carried more than twelve million passengers. As of today, there are less than 270,000 Cruise Critic members.

According to HAL, in summer of 2007, HAL is projecting 115,000 pax will cruise to Alaska alone. Again, based on HAL's figures from its website, HAL carries some 700,000 pax per year.

8,000 hits (many of them originating from the same persons) and 250 comments seem to me to be a drop in the bucket in the big scheme of things.

Does HAL management really make business decisions based on what is posted here? Do they really care what a handful of customers on a website may think about how they run their company?

I am not asking these questions facetiously or ironically or rudely. I would really like to know how much of what is said here impacts how HAL does business. I would really like to know if those of us who visit here regularly truly represent the typical HAL cruiser. Do we CC'ers constitute the typical HAL demographic?

Thank you.

Odd Ball · May 7, 2007

Who are HAL's loyal customers? Are they Cruise Critic members?

In 2006, the cruise lines carried more than twelve million passengers. As of today, there are less than 270,000 Cruise Critic members.

According to HAL, in summer of 2007, HAL is projecting 115,000 pax will cruise to Alaska alone. Again, based on HAL's figures from its website, HAL carries some 700,000 pax per year.

8,000 hits (many of them originating from the same persons) and 250 comments seem to me to be a drop in the bucket in the big scheme of things.

Does HAL management really make business decisions based on what is posted here? Do they really care what a handful of customers on a website may think about how they run their company?

I am not asking these questions facetiously or ironically or rudely. I would really like to know how much of what is said here impacts how HAL does business. I would really like to know if those of us who visit here regularly truly represent the typical HAL cruiser. Do we CC'ers constitute the typical HAL demographic?

Thank you.

What is your point ? You lost me.

sail7seas · May 7, 2007

I guess, unlike some, I appreciate knowing why corporations and/or people do what they do, when they do it. Understanding why, does not mean I agree with the outcome.

I am in agreement that the whole Park West @ Sea thing has gone too far. Nothing I have said states otherwise.

Admittedly I may have missed some posts in this lengthy thread but all I have read is speculation. How does speculation lead to understanding why a corporation did something? Did I miss some corporate response or corporate facts?

I can only speak for myself but after having read most of this thread, I do not know any more as to why Park West @ Sea was granted exclusive use of Crows Nest for this Rotterdam cruise than I did at the start of the thread. Do you have factual info from HAL Headquarters, Hammy........or are all of your suppositions merely speculation? How can anyone understand facts that do not have?

RuthC · May 7, 2007

Who are HAL's loyal customers? Are they Cruise Critic members?
...

Do we CC'ers constitute the typical HAL demographic?

I suspect we do. I think we are a representative sample of the loyal HAL passengers. Many (most?) of us who post regularly on this board represent several cruises past and future. That's $$$$$.

And it's more than a handful. :)

Old As Dirt Mom · May 7, 2007

What is your point ? You lost me.

translation: Cc'ers appear to be small in number compared to the total number of pax carried by HAL. Therefore, will all our agitation over the use of the Crow's Nest by Park West actually induce HAL to change anything? Do the hundreds of thousands of other HAL customers feel about things the way we do?

Odd Ball, does my explanation help?

mancunian · May 7, 2007

Perhaps all of us who are booked on HAL over the future months should email them asking specifically about the Crow's Nest for our particular cruise. Might help to show our displeasure, and I am sure they will get fed up with the emails.

We have done 24 cruises but the first time we have booked with HAL. The crow's nest (or whatever name on a particular ship) is very important to us and we certainly are wondering what we have done.

arabrab · May 7, 2007

Who are HAL's loyal customers? Are they Cruise Critic members?

In 2006, the cruise lines carried more than twelve million passengers. As of today, there are less than 270,000 Cruise Critic members.

According to HAL, in summer of 2007, HAL is projecting 115,000 pax will cruise to Alaska alone. Again, based on HAL's figures from its website, HAL carries some 700,000 pax per year.

8,000 hits (many of them originating from the same persons) and 250 comments seem to me to be a drop in the bucket in the big scheme of things.

Does HAL management really make business decisions based on what is posted here? Do they really care what a handful of customers on a website may think about how they run their company?

I am not asking these questions facetiously or ironically or rudely. I would really like to know how much of what is said here impacts how HAL does business. I would really like to know if those of us who visit here regularly truly represent the typical HAL cruiser. Do we CC'ers constitute the typical HAL demographic?

Thank you.

I'm sure that Cruise Critic members don't represent the typical HAL demographic, much as any specialty group doesn't represent the whole However, I suspect that Cruise Critic members, particularly those who post on the HAL board, are substantially more likely than the typical cruiser to cruise HAL and to cruise often. A disproportionate number seem to book the veranda and higher end cabins, so I think that this group would have some influence with HAL. Individual cruise critic members may have individual relationships with significant HAL staffers, and this might be another conduit for feedback.

No telling exactly how influential CC is as a group, but I'd consider it to be not insignificant.

mamaofami · May 7, 2007

I have begun to think that it behooves all of us who care, to email and write to HAL to let them know how displeased we are to read about the Crow's Nest being off limits for an entire cruise. If we truly have any clout, we will see a change come about.

Would someone please tell me where to address my email and snail mail. Thanks!

dakrewser · May 7, 2007

I have begun to think that it behooves all of us who care, to email and write to HAL to let them know how displeased we are to read about the Crow's Nest being off limits for an entire cruise. If we truly have any clout, we will see a change come about.

Would someone please tell me where to address my email and snail mail. Thanks!

I emailed the Mariner desk a week ago. The email was acknowledge (automatically) but, so far, there has been no response.

jtl513 · May 7, 2007

Who are HAL's loyal customers? Are they Cruise Critic members?

In 2006, the cruise lines carried more than twelve million passengers. As of today, there are less than 270,000 Cruise Critic members.

I would really like to know if those of us who visit here regularly truly represent the typical HAL cruiser. Do we CC'ers constitute the typical HAL demographic?

Plus you have to consider how many of those 270,000 are no longer "active" members ... maybe not even alive still ... and how many of them are loyal to lines other than HAL.

From what I read here it seems like the typical meet-and-greet is about 20 to 30 on an R or S class ship, and maybe approaches a max of 100 on a Noordam cruise. Those are pretty miniscule numbers in the grand scheme of things!

DFD1 · May 7, 2007

dakrewser: I have mailed Kruse a snail mail letter, but would like to email the Mariner Desk. Please share the email address.

Also, if anyone has Kruse's email address, that would be helpful.

Thanks

Mary Ellen · May 7, 2007

I hate to say this, but this isn't the first time (and probably won't be the last time) the Crow's Nest is unavailable to 'regular' passengers on HAL cruises.

Today I had lunch with a friend/neighbor and told her about this thread. The very same thing happened on her last HAL cruise (early Dec '06 - Oosterdam Mexico). They (she/DH and her DB/SIL) had a 'Poker Tournment' group onboard who had sole access to the Crow's Nest 24/7. NO other passengers could use the area the entire cruise. As it was her birthday cruise, she had finally talked her older (mid-60s) brother & SIL into trying HAL (he'd always felt too young for HAL :rolleyes: ). Her DB & SIL have sailed many times on X and Princess and after this experience, they have no plans to sail HAL again.

My friend, her DH and DB/SIL don't post to CC. It isn't just CCers getting ticked off that 'public' areas on the ship - aren't. They are just representive of the many who will say to themselves: "Ok, we won't book a cruise on THAT line again".

hammybee · May 7, 2007

I can only speak for myself but after having read most of this thread, I do not know any more as to why Park West @ Sea was granted exclusive use of Crows Nest for this Rotterdam cruise than I did at the start of the thread. Do you have factual info from HAL Headquarters, Hammy........or are all of your suppositions merely speculation? How can anyone understand facts that do not have?/B]

There are reasons behind every business decision. I think it unlikely that HAL, or any cruise line, is going to share their reasons with pax. As it relates to the whole CrowsNest deal:

There is tremendous precedent within the hospitality business to designate guest facilities to the exclusive use of special interest groups.- FACT

Competition determines what a cruise line can charge for a cabin with any reasonable hope of filling it- FACT

Therefore, cruise lines need to rely on other sources of income to be profitable- FACT

50% of Park West's art sales is from their @ Sea division. - FACT

Park West @ Sea is a reliable source of onboard income for cruise lines. - FACT

Perhaps some or all of these facts combine to cause Seattle or Miami to give the keys to the CrowsNest to Park West @ Sea on some of their sails, some of the time, or maybe someone is sleeping with the devil. - Speculation

I am not affiliated with HAL or Park West. That I can reason through the possibilities that might combine to cause someone to make the decision that was made, does not mean I agree with the practice. Heck, I am bringing extra spoons on my next cruise, just in case. :)

RuthC · May 7, 2007

Aren't there a lot of former 60's-style Flower Children in the HAL demographic? :confused:

How about organizing a good, old-fashioned sit-in? :D

hammybee · May 7, 2007

Aren't there a lot of former 60's-style Flower Children in the HAL demographic? :confused:
How about organizing a good, old-fashioned sit-in? :D

Do you happen to know the words to Kumbaya?

RuthC · May 7, 2007

Do you happen to know the words to Kumbaya?

Sure. I can probably go a few choruses of We Shall Overcome, too. :D

RetiredMustang · May 7, 2007

Aren't there a lot of former 60's-style Flower Children in the HAL demographic? :confused:
How about organizing a good, old-fashioned sit-in? :D

Ruth,

Funny!

On the plus side, I'm quite a bit heavier for the cops to haul away these days -- it would take quite a few of them to shift my assets. :D

On the minus side, it would also take quite a bit longer (and be a lot louder) for me actually to get sat down on a sidewalk or something, and I would probably need help getting back up -- that is, if any of the rest of us could get up without help. Maybe I'd sit next to a sign, so I could pull myself up by its post....:eek:

(Reminds me of the conversation DW and I had once a couple of years ago. We are now to the point that we could actually afford to get that racy little MG or Miata or something, except now the only way we could get out of it would be to flop out onto the pavement and pull ourselves up by the car, which kind of destroys the sophisticated, Sean Connery James Bond coolness of the whole idea.)

Dave

hammybee · May 7, 2007

Ruth,

Funny!

On the plus side, I'm quite a bit heavier for the cops to haul away these days -- it would take quite a few of them to shift my assets. :D

On the minus side, it would also take quite a bit longer (and be a lot louder) for me actually to get sat down on a sidewalk or something, and I would probably need help getting back up -- that is, if any of the rest of us could get up without help. Maybe I'd sit next to a sign, so I could pull myself up by its post....:eek: Dave

That's what the Park West @ Sea easels are for, Dave.

dakrewser · May 7, 2007

There are reasons behind every business decision. I think it unlikely that HAL, or any cruise line, is going to share their reasons with pax. As it relates to the whole CrowsNest deal:

There is tremendous precedent within the hospitality business to designate guest facilities to the exclusive use of special interest groups.- FACT

Competition determines what a cruise line can charge for a cabin with any reasonable hope of filling it- FACT

Therefore, cruise lines need to rely on other sources of income to be profitable- FACT

50% of Park West's art sales is from their @ Sea division. - FACT

Park West @ Sea is a reliable source of onboard income for cruise lines. - FACT

Perhaps some or all of these facts combine to cause Seattle or Miami to give the keys to the CrowsNest to Park West @ Sea on some of their sails, some of the time, or maybe someone is sleeping with the devil. - Speculation

I am not affiliated with HAL or Park West. That I can reason through the possibilities that might combine to cause someone to make the decision that was made, does not mean I agree with the practice. Heck, I am bringing extra spoons on my next cruise, just in case. :)

The point you don't seem to be getting, though, is that no one here gives a rat's tail for why HAL might do this - we just don't think any reason justifies it.

Now I think I'll go rehearse the new words to the protest song we really need: