As You Wish Dining - Opinions, Comments and Discussions

[SharonN]

I just hope they never do. Not unless it's of their own choosing.

 

I agree and wouldn't wish it on anyone but it will happen to most people at some point in their life. Sometimes when least expected!

 

Those moccasins aren't very comfortable, are they. :( I've walked better in 4" spike heals. :rolleyes:

 

No they're not but as you well know it's best to try and keep walking as best you can in them!

[terrydtx]

terrydtx, this illustration -- while humorous -- does nothing to demonstrate that you "get" the concerns that Solo Cruises (like Ruth and I) have when it comes to the issue of dining companions under the AYW system. You may "get it" regarding the advantages of being able to choose your dining time and companions, but thus far you've posted NOTHING to indicate that you "get" the concerns of Traditionalists ... and certainly not of Solo Traditionalists.

 

I guess you and Ruth have been lucky so far and not had the 2 librarians fro Massachusetts as your table mates. With AYWD what’s to keep you on the first night or two from sitting at a table of 6 or 8 and finding nice table mates to book with every night the rest of the cruise? You could still book the same table with the same table mates and maybe same waiters. From several posts I have seen from actual AYWD passenger experiences this summer on HAL this has been the case and I think you and Ruth would be able to have the best of both worlds even as a solo cruiser.

 

This is “choice” and you would never get stuck with my two librarian friends. I do get it about single cruising and its challenges, but have you ever had table mates you couldn’t stand and couldn’t get away from?

[HeatherInFlorida]

Just wondering Greg, Heather---my mother used to say "Save your breath to cool your porridge". Is there some keyboard equivalent? :confused:

 

If there isn't, there should be!!!:D But I think Greg's emoticon pretty much covers it.

[Old As Dirt Mom]

Maybe you've already seen this post by spcl4cs gal who has just returned from the Noordam. She gives her firsthand experience with AYW dining.

 

Karin

[mamaofami]

Greg, I love your emoticons. Ruth, my father used to say a person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still.

 

I think that those of you who cruise solo have tremendous courage and I can only imagine how difficult it must be to travel so far from home alone. Whatever works to make that experience more doable and comfortable is an option solo cruisers should be able to have. It's also an option that I want to have, for all the reasons that have already been stated by those who like traditional dining.

 

As an aside, there was a post a few weeks back by someone who had just lost a spouse and wanted to give solo cruising a try. Does anyone know if she did?

[terrydtx]

Maybe you've already seen this post by spcl4cs gal who has just returned from the Noordam. She gives her firsthand experience with AYW dining.

 

Karin

 

Here is the exact quote from spc14cs gal on the Noordam AYWD this summer in Alaska. I think this pretty much proves my point about AYWD and the concerns Ruth and Revneal have about tablemates and tradition while utilizing AYWD should be eased somewhat.

\

"Food & Open Dining

 

"Having booked my cruise only three months prior to sailing date, I was waitlisted for a 5:30 dinner seating but ended up being put in Open Dining on Deck 2 of the Vista Diningroom. It really wasn’t all that bad in the end mainly due to the fact that I could request a specific table steward each night. So, after a first meal with Johny and Surya, I just asked for a table in their section each night at 5:30 and had no problem getting one. In the end I was seated with the same two ladies each night as well so it was as if I had Traditional Dining anyway."

[Opinions]

Let's not confuse the issue by quoting a post from someone who actually has experienced AYWD on HAL...We don't want any facts to get in the way of this debate.

[terrydtx]

Let's not confuse the issue by quoting a post from someone who actually has experienced AYWD on HAL...We don't want any facts to get in the way of this debate.

 

Well stated Opinions. Somebody earlier today posted something about not "getting it" until I have walked in her shoes, well I don't think the facts or opinions of those who have experienced AYWD on HAL will make a bit of difference to her either.

[pvlover]

Rev Neal & Ruth C., as solo cruisers you are, sadly, a tiny percentage of the cruising population. And, with Hal´s "family push" you are getting ever smaller. You are the proverbial "voice that crieth in the wilderness". However, there might be a ray of hope. There are a number of congenial folks on this board who also cruise solo. Maybe the answer is to coordinate dates, cruise together, and terrorize the whole "DAM" ship!:cool: :cool:

[RetiredMustang]

LOL ... yes ... and it involves one of my favorite emoticons:

 

e.g.: Don't waste your time ...

 

Greg,

 

Now that's funny. It reminds me why I added the third quotation to my sig after being on CC for a while:

 

"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlen, Time Enough For Love

Dave

[RevNeal]

I guess you and Ruth have been lucky so far and not had the 2 librarians from Massachusetts as your table mates.

 

LOL ... actually, I've had a few bozo nut-jobs, too. But, they're a minority. And, when I've had 'em, I've either had fun with them or, like you, I've driven them off. :D But, that's a last resort.

[RevNeal]

I guess you and Ruth have been lucky so far and not had the 2 librarians fro Massachusetts as your table mates. With AYWD what’s to keep you on the first night or two from sitting at a table of 6 or 8 and finding nice table mates to book with every night the rest of the cruise? You could still book the same table with the same table mates and maybe same waiters. From several posts I have seen from actual AYWD passenger experiences this summer on HAL this has been the case and I think you and Ruth would be able to have the best of both worlds even as a solo cruiser.

 

I sure hope so. It's a chance, though. A BIG one. I'd rather just stick with my preferred choice of Traditional dining and enjoy any bozos that I *might* get at my table.

 

This is “choice” and you would never get stuck with my two librarian friends. I do get it about single cruising and its challenges, but have you ever had table mates you couldn’t stand and couldn’t get away from?

 

:D

Nope ... you don't "get it" about single cruising. You might be able to intellectually comprehend some of the problems, but you can't really understand the solo experience until you actually experience the challenges thereof. And, quite frankly, I hope you never do through any reason other than your own choice. :)

[RevNeal]

Greg,

 

Now that's funny. It reminds me why I added the third quotation to my sig after being on CC for a while:

 

"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlen, Time Enough For Love

Dave

 

Heinlein ... one of my favorite authors. My favorite quote from the Notebooks of Lazarus Long: "When in trouble, or in doubt, run in circles scream and shout." :D

[hammybee]

I copied this from another board. It's from one of our favorite posters, Bruce Muzz:

 

Does open dining on ships denigrate the relationship that passengers have always enjoyed with the service staff? It certainly does. Breaking that relationship makes the service appear to be less personal and friendly. Americans generally do not like that, as they frequently confuse and equate friendliness with excellent service.

 

Every public opinion poll done by the cruise lines tells us that about 65% of today's cruisers want an open dining option on their ship. That percentage of the cruising public cannot be ignored by cruise lines that want to stay in business and make a profit. Open dining is here to stay for a long time.

 

But at the end of the day, the auto-tip system keeps salaries up to an acceptable level - keeping the remaining experienced service staff working on the ships, rather than in hotels back home.

 

The open dining concepts keep a new and hopefully endless supply of new cruisers coming to cruise ships and keeping us profitable and in business.

[RuthC]

The open dining concepts keep a new and hopefully endless supply of new cruisers coming to cruise ships and keeping us profitable and in business.

New and improved? The cruiseline version of planned obsolescence?

Sure says something about how they value loyalty. :(

Get 'em in; wring 'em dry; move on to the next newby. :rolleyes:

[RevNeal]

Let's not confuse the issue by quoting a post from someone who actually has experienced AYWD on HAL...We don't want any facts to get in the way of this debate.

 

LOL

I actually appreciate all the reports we've received from the ships, and I hope that things turn out as well as some of the reports we've had, and not as bad as some of the others. :) I am reminded that "milage will vary." This is true both directions, might I add. Personally, I'm in "wait and see mode." I'm not going to jump into AYW if Traditional is available to me, but neither am I going to jump overboard if it's the only option open. I may well be trying other Lines, in the future, but that's for multiple reasons, not just this one. And ... frankly ... it's something I was going to be doing anyway, as time passed.

[RevNeal]

Somebody earlier today posted something about not "getting it" until I have walked in her shoes, well I don't think the facts or opinions of those who have experienced AYWD on HAL will make a bit of difference to her either.

 

Perhaps ... perhaps not. Ruth is writing from many personal experiences of being aboard ship where she has known NO ONE else aboard (the most latest being her cruise, last month, aboard the Prinsendam). Even with the comforts and structures of the Traditional Dining system, I gather from her postings from the ship -- and her post-cruise review -- that the cruise wasn't as much fun as it would have been had she been aboard with people whom she knew. Removing the known quantities of the Traditional System from the picture would leave a gaping unknown quantity in the midst of an already unsure system. I can understand why someone would find that a concern. Indeed, I can understand it precisely because I have experienced such concerns, personally, in my own solo cruises. Even having cruised solo a bunch of times, I still feel it. On such occasions I have leaned heavily upon the known patterns and systems of the Traditional Dining Schedule (as well as on other "traditions" of cruising) to find comfort and a "way to fit in" in a 2-by-2 world. For solos, AYW multiplies the uncertainties in ways that make me (and others like me) a little more uncomfortable than I otherwise would be. And, I'm certain, this will be the case until some personal experience is developed with seeing how Traditional functions relative to the new system. Reports from the ships are appreciated, but until each of us experiences it there will be some trepidation on our part; and, frankly, it doesn't help having those who don't have to find ways to cope -- and who are, in fact, looking forward to the change -- rubbing salt into the wounds and pushing our trepidation buttons.

 

The fact remains, terrydtx, that walking a mile in someone else's shoes is a very instructive experience. I have cruised with loved ones, family, and friends; I have cruised solo with others I know aboard ship; and, I've cruised solo where I have known NOBODY else aboard. Each experience is different, the most challenging of such experiences has been those where I have been cruising without knowing anybody else aboard ship. For someone who hasn't experienced solo cruising to minimize the concerns of those who have actually made such voyages, and to say that WE don't "get it" while claiming that you do "get it," is, in my opinion, beyond bounds.

[RevNeal]

Rev Neal & Ruth C., as solo cruisers you are, sadly, a tiny percentage of the cruising population. And, with Hal´s "family push" you are getting ever smaller. You are the proverbial "voice that crieth in the wilderness". However, there might be a ray of hope. There are a number of congenial folks on this board who also cruise solo. Maybe the answer is to coordinate dates, cruise together, and terrorize the whole "DAM" ship!:cool: :cool:

 

Thanks, pvlover. :D

Yes, we're well aware of the fact that we are an extreme minority and, indeed, that we are becoming even more so in an industry that is increasing interested in the Noah's Ark pattern of cruising: people coming aboard 2-by-2 or in pairs of 7 or more. And, yes, the thought HAS occurred to us (many times) that we need to coordinate our cruises. And ... this we have done and are doing. :)

 

Join us.

[bUU]

You just don't "get it", do you? It's still unknown if everyone who wants traditional will have it.

You missed this part of Terry's message: "Wanting to eat at 6:15pm and having to accept only 8:00pm because you book a cruise late isn’t any choice either." The implication being that if you want traditional, book early while it is still available. If you want a balcony, book early while it is still available. If you want the itinerary that has Barbados as a port-of-call, book early while it is still available.

 

"Get" it?

 

Until Holland America does away with traditional dining, passengers do have a choice, which is better than not having a choice.

[bUU]

They're afraid they can't get Traditional because there's less space provided for it.

As well there should be if there are less of HAL's target market driven by it than there was in the past. (That's something they'd know, not any of us.) People always have to live with limitations prompted by their own personal preferences. No harm, no foul. The "responsibility" for not getting what one wants in such situations rests solely with the individual, not the service provider.

 

For example, I want Verizon FIOS to offer me television service, but they are only willing to offer me high-speed Internet service. Presumably because of what part of town I live in (a less affluent section), I'm simply not within the target market for their new television service offering. My options are limited because of their marketing plan. Is that their "fault"? No. They're doing it for good reasons of their own. I'd love to embarrass them into revealing those reasons or changing their mind, but I have no foundation for expecting that. I have to take personal accountability for my disappointment because it isn't anyone's fault that their needs and my needs don't coincide. And I have to live with the ramifications of that reality, an hour or two or three a day, practically every day, 50 weeks a year.

[bUU]

Let's not confuse the issue by quoting a post from someone who actually has experienced AYWD on HAL...We don't want any facts to get in the way of this debate.

:D

 

Maybe the answer is to coordinate dates, cruise together, and terrorize the whole "DAM" ship!:cool: :cool:

This is a great point, and fits very well with what I said in my message above. When availability for what you want is limited because it isn't the target for service providers, the best approach is to take responsibility for your satisfaction onto yourself. Sometimes doing so would require starting your own cruise line or chartering a ship, but this situation is really something that the group cruising approach would address effectively.

[bUU]

There is a lot of hand wringing going on over the weekend about "not getting it" -- I see that as nothing more than single-minded patter best for evoking conflict rather than furthering the discussion. "If you don't agree with me then you don't get it." That's not contributing to a discussion.

 

No one here said that AYW dining is better for solo diners than traditional dining is, yet that is the assertion that some folks are choosing the argue against.

[terrydtx]

Revneal and RuthC, lets agree to disagree and after we have been on our upcoming HAL cruises with AYWD, let’s all come back to this forum and state our actual experiences with AYWD. Only then can we both be rational and factual about how well or not AYWD works. I have to say I have not been on an NCL or Princess cruise with open dining, I like the concept, but I may not like the actuality of it. The only cruise I have experienced with open dining was on Cruise West a couple years back, but it was a small ship with only 150 passengers and the open dining was just the one seating per night.

 

If HAL can keep both traditional and AYWD on all ships then they can keep both sides of the market happy, the 65% who want AYWD and the 35% who prefer traditional. Both NCL and Princess offer only the open dining and only time will tell whether the other major lines will follow HAL’s or the NCL and Princess examples.

 

I will concede that I most likely do not get it about solo cruising and its unique challenges, my posts about that were when I thought I was being accused of not getting “it” about the overall, not just the solo cruisers, concerns about AYWD. I hope that I am never a solo cruiser as I do not think I would like it much, My wife’s Grandmother lost her husband at a very young age and she was on over 50 Princess cruises almost all solo before she passed. I remember she made many, many friends on those cruises which were back then all traditional dining and the only reason she traveled solo was to make new friends.

[bUU]

... after we have been on our upcoming HAL cruises with AYWD, let’s all come back to this forum and state our actual experiences with AYWD. Only then can we both be rational and factual about how well or not AYWD works.

I suggested that very early on in the thread (message #115), to no avail. :(

 

If HAL can keep both traditional and AYWD on all ships then they can keep both sides of the market happy, the 65% who want AYWD and the 35% who prefer traditional.

And of course, those percentages will change over time, and I'll bet that they'll be tilted int the AYWD direction over time, so don't be surprised to find it increasingly more difficult to get your preference, if your preference is traditional dining; that is a very common quandary for niche interests.

[RevNeal]

Revneal and RuthC, lets agree to disagree and after we have been on our upcoming HAL cruises with AYWD, let’s all come back to this forum and state our actual experiences with AYWD. Only then can we both be rational and factual about how well or not AYWD works. I have to say I have not been on an NCL or Princess cruise with open dining, I like the concept, but I may not like the actuality of it. The only cruise I have experienced with open dining was on Cruise West a couple years back, but it was a small ship with only 150 passengers and the open dining was just the one seating per night.

 

Thank you, terrydtx. Ruth and I were both aboard the Noordam this past January when a form of the AYW (before it was called that) system was being tested. We were with a very large group of CCers and had arranged tables, together, in Traditional Dining. We had no complaints, nor did we hear of any aboard the Noordam during that cruise, with regarding to dining schedules (though, I'm sure, somebody had some complaints somewhere). Now, granted, that cruise was one where the system wasn't being implemented in the way it will be throughout the fleet after the transition is complete, so I'm not sure it's valid to make an evaluation based upon that.

 

For both RuthC and my self, our first experience of being aboard ship where the AYW dining system is fully in place and operational will be this next January, for our South American/Antarctica cruise aboard the Rotterdam. On this cruise we're with a small group of CCers most of whom planned this cruise while aboard the CC Group Cruise to Hawaii (The Voyage of the Spammed). Several of us are solo on this cruise, but we're with a group and that will change matters for us even if we're (as a group) placed in the AYW dining area. I don't anticipate any problems with our being able to arrange things to our liking for each evening, even if we're not in Traditional. It may take some extra work, and some extra negotiations with the Dining Room Staff, but such will be worth it to ensure our dining experience is agreeable. Of course, IF they give us Traditional Dining, we won't have anything to do beyond the "ordinary." And, given that most of us had booked this cruise by January of this year (a year in advance of the cruise) one would think that we should be able to get our dining choice. But ... no ... we're all "waitlisted."

 

 

If HAL can keep both traditional and AYWD on all ships then they can keep both sides of the market happy, the 65% who want AYWD and the 35% who prefer traditional.

 

My guess is that the percentages who favor Traditional are much higher among HAL Mariners, and closer to 50/50 (perhaps 45/55) for the segment of the market which HAL is probably targeting. If not, then there will be serious problems aboard ship with large numbers (one way or the other) not being able to get "What they Wish." (The current plan for dining room division has about 55% of the dining room -- the lower level -- being dedicated for Open Seating under the AYW system). Interestingly (and what is frightening many of us), most of the complaints we're hearing are from those who are desiring Traditional and can't get it, as if HAL isn't setting aside enough dining space for that segment of the passenger census.

 

I will concede that I most likely do not get it about solo cruising and its unique challenges, my posts about that were when I thought I was being accused of not getting “it” about the overall, not just the solo cruisers, concerns about AYWD. I hope that I am never a solo cruiser as I do not think I would like it much, My wife’s Grandmother lost her husband at a very young age and she was on over 50 Princess cruises almost all solo before she passed. I remember she made many, many friends on those cruises which were back then all traditional dining and the only reason she traveled solo was to make new friends.

 

Again, thank you. There are some wonderful advantages to cruising solo. Firstly, one is still cruising! That's always great -- it's a wonderful way to meet people and see things and have experiences that one otherwise would have (and, of course, any dinner at sea is far superior to the TV dinner I ate on land last night). Secondly, not having someone (a spouse, partner, parent, child or friend) with you can be a freeing experience ... one doesn't have to plan and coordinate activities with them. One can just "do one's own thing" without regard for the likes/dislikes, needs/concerns of the other person in your cabin. It can be very enjoyable. It can also be, at times, very lonely. If you're not part of a group, there's no one with you to share the experience; even if you are part of a group, when you go back to your cabin you're truly alone. Many of us experience this as a matter of course in our living, and we're used to it and even, at times, welcome it ... but we also want people-interaction. There's being "alone" and there's being "lonely." With a system in-place that facilities meeting other people (like the traditional, set dining systems did), one can be "alone" on a cruise but not be lonely. Sadly, my own personal experience is that much of single-traveling these days is a VERY lonely experience where one's being single is repeatedly amplified by the "Noah's Ark Syndrome" of everyone else around you being 2-by-2 at everything.