Century has Norovirus!!!

[fllady]

It does, 45 million people in the US get Norovirus every year, it just doesn't get the media attention. Always remember for the media the most important thing is, "if it bleeds it leads."

 

Don, you are so right!! It makes me mad when I see the news blow so many things out of proportion.

 

FinallyCruising, you should go on line and read up on Noro virus. It is very prevalant, especially in the winter. On the ship, just think of all the places you touch where others have touched..... sitting down at the table to eat, do you reach under your chair to pull it in? that is just one place that most don't even think about.

[elena7seas]

Why doesn't it happen in the concentrations then as you describe? Why doesn't it happen in the concentrations in office buildings where a single tenant occupies the entire building. There are plenty of large environments where the same people co-exist each and every day where this virus does not occur. Why?

 

You should take a look at the research on transmission of norovirus in schools.

[FinelyCruising]

Hold on...read what I have written...this is not about kids in shools, and statistics...believe me I have been on a ship with a major noro event.

 

The part that no one is responsding to is this, there are not these concetrations in office buildings as there are on cruise ships and there can be the same amount of people in an office building as there are on a ship.

 

How many have ever heard on an co-worker having a noro event and have it pass through the office to others as it does on a ship?

 

We all touch the same elevator buttons, the same door handles, use many of the same rest rooms, touch copier buttons, fax machines, use the same cafes...so the hand to hand touch of same surfaces occurs just as much as while on a ship as it does in an office building.

 

Why does it not florish in that office environment, why does it not spread as it does on a ship, and there is no bleaching, etc. to dimish it yet it never seems to occur as it does on a ship?

 

For the most past we all work more than we cruise, so how is it that is so prevalent on these cruise ships and not in the workplace, since the idea is that we are bringing in on board from home?

[C 2 C]

The part that no one is responsding to is this, there are not these concetrations in office buildings as there are on cruise ships and there can be the same amount of people in an office building as there are on a ship.

 

The outbreaks that I have heard about involve other types of accommodations: Resorts, trains, nursing homes, hotels, hospitals.. places where food is "dispensed".

If the ship environment was the prime cause, then by that reasoning there should be an outbreak on every cruise.

I'm also waiting for a response to similar but less luxurious vessels: , ie navy ships where there are also large common eating areas.

[FinelyCruising]

So you think it's food based? How so?

 

I was thinking it's surface caused to some extent and wondered if salt or water or some other temperature or humidity factors concentrate the virus.

[C 2 C]

I googled norwalk virus navy and came up with an answer.

 

http://www.ajtmh.org/cgi/reprint/61/6/898.pdf

 

If you read the article you will note that the number of cases was much higher as a % than on a cruise ship.

[C 2 C]

Here is another very interesting article that even relates your blood type to vulnerability to NLV..

 

http://www.bcm.edu/fromthelab/vol02/is1/03jan_n1.htm

[FinelyCruising]

...hmmpf....

 

there are no oysters on board at boarding as far as I know, and the lobsters come at the end. Chicken is all the time, one fashion or another, but I think the refrigeration of it is good delivered until it is cooked, unless the feed/water source is similar to the spinach epidemic in the US fields in the past year. Fruit does sit out when it is on the buffet, but it does get eaten rather quickly. Could it be water treatment issues while on board?

 

I guess I am starting to think too that possibly it is food source related...

[FinelyCruising]

Here is another very interesting article that even relates your blood type to vulnerability to NLV..

 

http://www.bcm.edu/fromthelab/vol02/is1/03jan_n1.htm

 

Wow.

[dkjretired]

So you think it's food based? How so?

 

I was thinking it's surface caused to some extent and wondered if salt or water or some other temperature or humidity factors concentrate the virus.

 

Noro is not food based as in bad food. Here is a link to the CDC site on Norovirus.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/pub/Norovirus/Norovirus.htm

[BillC]

We are a group of 12 on the ship--no one is or has been sick..the crew including the officiers are working 7x24 to keep the ship clean. The number of cases of neurovirus was never that large dispite what you might have heard and is now way down. Celebrity has taken many prudent steps to prevent the spead of the virus which was on board from the previous cruise. Yes sushi and raw meat are not being served because it is a an easy purveyor of germs. There are the usual number of malcontents who are constantly complaining and threatening to sue..but most of us are having a good time and admiring Celebrity's concern and efforts to make this an enjoyable cruise for everyone on board..

[dkjretired]

Hold on...read what I have written...this is not about kids in shools, and statistics...believe me I have been on a ship with a major noro event.

 

The part that no one is responsding to is this, there are not these concetrations in office buildings as there are on cruise ships and there can be the same amount of people in an office building as there are on a ship.

 

How many have ever heard on an co-worker having a noro event and have it pass through the office to others as it does on a ship?

 

We all touch the same elevator buttons, the same door handles, use many of the same rest rooms, touch copier buttons, fax machines, use the same cafes...so the hand to hand touch of same surfaces occurs just as much as while on a ship as it does in an office building.

 

 

 

Why does it not florish in that office environment, why does it not spread as it does on a ship, and there is no bleaching, etc. to dimish it yet it never seems to occur as it does on a ship?

 

For the most past we all work more than we cruise, so how is it that is so prevalent on these cruise ships and not in the workplace, since the idea is that we are bringing in on board from home?

 

What you describe in offices and schools happens all the time that is why 45 million people get norovirus in the US. It is just not publicized. It is way overblown on cruise ships, according to the CDC only about 4000 persons per year get the virus on a cruise ship....

[Lois R]

We are a group of 12 on the ship--no one is or has been sick..the crew including the officiers are working 7x24 to keep the ship clean. The number of cases of neurovirus was never that large dispite what you might have heard and is now way down. Celebrity has taken many prudent steps to prevent the spead of the virus which was on board from the previous cruise. Yes sushi and raw meat are not being served because it is a an easy purveyor of germs. There are the usual number of malcontents who are constantly complaining and threatening to sue..but most of us are having a good time and admiring Celebrity's concern and efforts to make this an enjoyable cruise for everyone on board..

 

Hi BillC, thanks for your update:) it is appreciated.

[FinelyCruising]

Don I don't agree it happens all the time in offices. You point to a number to suport frequency, and that's fine with me, but you still have not explained why Noro happens more on ships than in offices, and that remains my question.

 

Food sourced contamination may not equal bad food, as in rotten, it may mean there have been sources that contribute to illness contained in seemingly fine food products.

 

Do you rememeber the recent spinach recall from Earthbound Farms this past year? The recent pulling of Topps Hamburgers, that made so many ill? The recording of berries that were pulled from shelves due to contamination from field workers in recent times?

 

The point is this concentration of virus comes from somewhere and it may not be from passenger to passenger contact as everyone talks up here as the cause as a result of handwashing issues or from boarding sick. Handwashing issues are the same in the workplace and it's not a concentrated prevalence in that environement nor is Noro to my knowledge.

[dkjretired]

Don I don't agree it happens all the time in offices. You point to a number to suport frequency, and that's fine with me, but you still have not explained why Noro happens more on ships than in offices, and that remains my question.

 

Food sourced contamination may not equal bad food, as in rotten, it may mean there have been sources that contribute to illness contained in seemingly fine food products.

 

Do you rememeber the recent spinach recall from Earthbound Farms this past year? The recent pulling of Topps Hamburgers, that made so many ill? The recording of berries that were pulled from shelves due to contamination from field workers in recent times?

 

The point is this concentration of virus comes from somewhere and it may not be from passenger to passenger contact as everyone talks up here as the cause as a result of handwashing issues or from boarding sick. Handwashing issues are the same in the workplace and it's not a concentrated prevalence in that environement nor is Noro to my knowledge.

 

There were well publicized outbreaks in prisons over the past few months and in some nursing homes. I can agree that in offices, etc where there is generally no food served, the outbreak might be less but it still occurs. How many people go to work sick and don't think much about it.

[angelpug]

My own personal point of view as to why Noro effects so many on cruise ships.....For some people they just "go on vacation," and just forget about handwashing (the main way of preventing Noro), and to me the MAIN reason why if happens so frequently on a ship....it seems that for most people, FOOD is the number ONE form of entertainment on a ship, and they hurry and run to get to the food, and forget the handwashing before they attack it:eek: !

 

It's sad, but in schools they DO prevent Noro mostly in part to actually lining the kids up, and WATCHING them wash their hands. I feel like so many adults just don't know how to wash their hands the way they should. They rely on the antibacterial wipes, and gels, and these just don't prove to be effective like handwashing does.

 

I've been on so many cruises, and watch people run from the casino straight to the dining room, and forego any and all handwashing.....thus the easy spread through slots, and poker chips.

 

My form of prevention....each time I enter my cabin, I head straight to my sink, and thoroughly wash my hands. I bring my own liquid dial from home....costs me 1.50, and I leave it at the end of the cruise...no big deal. I don't care if it's just to run a quick errand..each time I enter, I wash. Befgore I go eat...I wash again, and use whatever wipes or gels they offer on top of that. It's all a precaustion, but I'll do what I can!

 

Oh yeah....here in the DC area, we've had at least two hotels in the Dulles Airport area that's had to be closed and cleaned because of Noro, and YES, it made the news!

 

Take Care,

Jaime

[C 2 C]

 

Oh yeah....here in the DC area, we've had at least two hotels in the Dulles Airport area that's had to be closed and cleaned because of Noro, and YES, it made the news!

 

Take Care,

Jaime

 

Here is a link for one commentator about hotels not having to report outbreaks in hotels...

 

http://www.elliott.org/blog/overlooked-hotel-norovirus-outbreaks/

[npb]

.....and how many people get on the ship when they are already sick bringing their germs with them?? :(

 

I think that there are too many variables to compare a ship to an office. It is an apples to oranges comparision.

[fllady]

C2C, thank you for all the web sites, I even learned some new things. :)

[FinelyCruising]

.....and how many people get on the ship when they are already sick bringing their germs with them?? :(

 

I think that there are too many variables to compare a ship to an office. It is an apples to oranges comparision.

 

Not really...the assumption is that someone brings this virus with them on the ship, when wham, the ship gets Noro. Most of the cruisers I have sailed with are people who work, many come from an office environment. I suspect the number of hand washers or non-hand washers in an office building are the same once they become vacationers and board a ship.

 

Again, I do not find the office environment to be the culprit in producing infected vacationers, and at one time I thought airports might be the exchange centers for supplying the virus that seems to hit so darn fast once the ship sails.

 

So if it may be as a result of food based generation or transmission, or still water systems, then its easy to understand why multiple ships sailing from the same port can be affected as has ocurred. Many of the purveyors or contract producers or truckers may be linked for the supply and delivery to the ships in port.

 

It would be nice if they figured out what the true origin is, sounds to me like they can, and I hope that they do.

[Lois R]

Well, I work in an office and there are about 10 of us inside, a warehouse

with other co-workers and drivers as well.

The guy who works in the office next to me(we are divided by

floor to ceiling glass) is CONSTANTLY sick:eek: :rolleyes: ...he is either coughing,

sneezing or whatever and I guess I am just lucky and have a great

immune system. Because it seems like every time I turn around he

has SOMETHING wrong. I shake my head and keep my mouth shut.

I bet in a 4 quarter year this guy gets a cold 4 times a year:(

Luckly for me, I don't usually catch his germs. But he still comes

to work...germs abounding or not.

Some folks say it is the office itself that breeds this.....not sure

because I rarely if ever get sick.

So, does the ship breed it? And some people have good immune

systems while others don't?

[wvufan]

I think one of the reasons it becomes more prevalent on cruise ships is that people are less likely to report their symptoms and be quarantined than they would be to call in sick from work or school. So, there is more exposure and it spreads.

 

Earlier this year, we sailed on a ship that had experienced a big outbreak on the previous sailing. Our boarding and departure were delayed while they tried to sterilize the ship. Despite following every precaution known to man, I developed some symptoms, went to the infirmary, it was confirmed to be noro, and I ended up quarantined for 4 days.

 

Our sailing had something like 20 cases the first week. However, due to people doing the responsible thing and turning themselves in, by the end of the second week the ship was disease free.

 

I am convinced that the biggest problem is that people don't let the medical staff know when they have symptoms because they are afraid they will be quarantined and it will "ruin their cruise." (my personal feeling is that if I am so blessed as to be able to take a cruise, my life is pretty good to begin with and I shouldn't whine about a few days in a cabin).Some continue to roam around the ship. In other cases, they may stay in the cabin, but their spouse carries it about. And away it goes.

 

Is the noro fun? Heck no, but, unless you have other medical issues, it is not a life threatening disease. It is one heckuva nuisance, but that is about all.

 

The fact is, sick happens. If you get it, do the right thing. Don't risk infecting other passengers and crew.

 

OOOEEE:D :D Bob and Phyl

[FinelyCruising]

Lois it may be allergies this guy has, or he may be a smoker and have a less than solid respiratory system, or he may live with a smoker that creates that issue for him.

 

And the point you make indicates that you do not board the ship with his illness transferred to you, and that's what I am suggesting, that Noro comes from other sources rather than from one person bringing it onboard and infecting the whole ship as many think is what happens.

 

As for being lucky to take cruises and being a good sport about being sick, I agree its a good idea to let others know that you are ill since I don't want those who come into contact with me be sick along with me, but I am not so inclined as to want to say to myself, hey its only a few days of misery being cut off from something I really looked forward to doing. I'd be highly disappointed and frustrated and justifiably so if I was stuck in my cabin for 4 days. If some can take many cruises, there are others who may not have the same opportunity, and their cruise experience is truly diminshed significantly.

 

So it would be good for everyone if NV or NLV was better prevented on cruise ships. Once again, it sounds like its possible and the CDC might be able to assist in that effort somehow.

[FortyNinerLiz]

I think one of the reasons it becomes more prevalent on cruise ships is that people are less likely to report their symptoms and be quarantined than they would be to call in sick from work or school. So, there is more exposure and it spreads.

 

Earlier this year, we sailed on a ship that had experienced a big outbreak on the previous sailing. Our boarding and departure were delayed while they tried to sterilize the ship. Despite following every precaution known to man, I developed some symptoms, went to the infirmary, it was confirmed to be noro, and I ended up quarantined for 4 days.

 

Our sailing had something like 20 cases the first week. However, due to people doing the responsible thing and turning themselves in, by the end of the second week the ship was disease free.

 

I am convinced that the biggest problem is that people don't let the medical staff know when they have symptoms because they are afraid they will be quarantined and it will "ruin their cruise." (my personal feeling is that if I am so blessed as to be able to take a cruise, my life is pretty good to begin with and I shouldn't whine about a few days in a cabin).Some continue to roam around the ship. In other cases, they may stay in the cabin, but their spouse carries it about. And away it goes.

 

Is the noro fun? Heck no, but, unless you have other medical issues, it is not a life threatening disease. It is one heckuva nuisance, but that is about all.

 

The fact is, sick happens. If you get it, do the right thing. Don't risk infecting other passengers and crew.

 

OOOEEE:D :D Bob and Phyl

 

Even if you go to a ship's medical, they do not test for other serious conditions like adenovirus 14 that can spread like wildfire. I don't know what the solution is because it is not the responsibility of the cruise line to ensure that everyone is healthy when boarding and people just naturally don't want to report stuff for which they will be isolated. I have no idea what the solution should be..............

[travelingmom37]

Hello all,

Hope you are enjoying the final days of your cruise. I am among the passangers boarding Thursday, Dec. 20. I am quite concerned about the status of the Noro Virus on board. Have the restrictions eased up? are people still in isolation? Is sushi back on the menus? I'm sure that the staff are doing all they can to disinfect the ship.We will of course wash our hands frequently, etc.

Please advise of any new information or suggestions you might be able to provide. Thanks for your time