We Are Done, With Celebrity!!!

[BB5953]

Hey Bruin Steve,

 

As a lawyer, I am sure you are familiar with the U.S.C. pertaining to Americans with Disabilities (ADA), and the fact that, regardless of ship's registry they "purposefully avail themselves" of doing business in the U.S., leaving from Florida.

 

We were traveling with (2) elderly passengers, 86 and 84, respectively.

 

When tendering, with priority disembarkation, would it not seem like a violation of ADA to not have someone escort you to the elevator so that when the doors open and you enter the line, other passengers do not hurl insults and obscenities at you, regardless of the fact you are holding ticket number (5) and they have (17) and higher. Does that sound fair to you? Hand out the tickets and have everyone make a mad dash for the tenders, only to hve the elderly pushed out of the way and when the elevator opens they are called B&%CH and C&%T, because they are trying to rejoin the line?

 

 

sorry that you had a miserable time however it sounds like while the actions taken by X are/were frustrating to you they were 100% correct. You have no right to know why someone passed away/let alone that they did. You should have taken comfort in the knowledge that should it have been something contagious you would have been alerted and staying out of the "rumor mill" is always the best way to go, IMO. Additionally I would be willing to bet that the staff was aware what was happening but didn't disclose it to you for obvious and correct reasons (again I understadn that was frustrating to someone who wanted to know).

 

Addionally ADA does not apply to elderly passengers only those with disabilities. It is maily a federal regulation for things like handicap bathrooms, larger cabins available to those with disabilities, not with regualting other passengers comments, though again I understand that wasn't plesant to deal with. IMO you don't have a substantial reason for being upset with X but you certainly have every right to be disappointed with the way your vacation went, it was not X's fault.

[Albert Ross]

As far as the math, per cruise; since we joined founder's club, Captain's Club before they merged with RCL, we get one point per cruise Celebrity or RCL for duration of 7 days or less, and 1 extra day for 14 days plus, plus one more for Concierge Class.

 

Therefore 1+1+1+1+2+1+3+1= 11 cruise points Celebrity/RCL.

 

Founder Classic Members

Founder Classic Members are guests who enrolled prior to October 1, 2002. These members receive priority embarkation and preferential debarkation, in addition to all other Classic Level benefits.

[ACCagent]

Founder Classic Members

Founder Classic Members are guests who enrolled prior to October 1, 2002. These members receive priority embarkation and preferential debarkation, in addition to all other Classic Level benefits.

 

I think that's the only thing different about being a Founder's member. It doesn't let you combine the points though.

[Albert Ross]

I think that's the only thing different about being a Founder's member. It doesn't let you combine the points though.

I know, you know and everyone on this board knows this fact - with one exception....;)

[bububr]

First of all you are only at the Select level of the Captains club. We have been cruising just as long as you have, are founders members ( had to pay to join ), and travel other lines also. You would be platinum on RCL we are Diamond due to the # of X cruises we have taken.

 

There is a MORGUE onboard each ship...so any smell would not be from dead bodies. The ship is not obligated to give out death information per se unless an emergency. Had the deaths been linked to a spreadable disease They would have been obligated by the CDC to do so. People die on ships every day...not a surprise when most of the clientel is elderly.

 

As for getting off the ship and rejoining it...this also happens all the time with passengers that miss a depature, then rejoin the ship at the next port. I have also heard of people getting off and rejoining on their own in certain circumstances. Passenger relations usually handles this.

 

Not sure where you got the idea of island hopping but it is NOT the same after 911. Because of security and simply the cost and time it is a waste of time while on a cruise. You will spend MORE money doing this not to mention the hours of security lines, checking inand waiting for flights. It was a bad idea from the start.

 

I'm sorry you had a less than perfect cruise, we all have had those......but as one poster put it perfectly, "Stuff happens".

 

Hope your next cruise is better.

 

And don't forget you ARE Platinum with RCL and Select with X , and that does not give you any special insight to what happens in an emergency.

 

Dave:eek:

[Bruin Steve]

Hey Bruin Steve,

 

As a lawyer, I am sure you are familiar with the U.S.C. pertaining to Americans with Disabilities (ADA), and the fact that, regardless of ship's registry they "purposefully avail themselves" of doing business in the U.S., leaving from Florida.

 

We were traveling with (2) elderly passengers, 86 and 84, respectively.

 

When tendering, with priority disembarkation, would it not seem like a violation of ADA to not have someone escort you to the elevator so that when the doors open and you enter the line, other passengers do not hurl insults and obscenities at you, regardless of the fact you are holding ticket number (5) and they have (17) and higher. Does that sound fair to you? Hand out the tickets and have everyone make a mad dash for the tenders, only to hve the elderly pushed out of the way and when the elevator opens they are called B&%CH and C&%T, because they are trying to rejoin the line?

 

Well, now you've pitched one right into my wheelhouse...I deal with the ADA--The "Americans with Disabilities Act" for the record-virtually every day...My actual job for the past 17 years of my 30+ year career in the legal business is as counsel to the nation's largest and oldest HMO--The one that actually OWNS its own facilites...and, within their rather large in-house legal staff, I am THE attorney who represents the Real Estate, Property Management, Construction and Facilities Departments...Unlike you, I would surmise, I have read the ADA cover-to-cover and actually commented on it prior to its enactment...

 

But, in a way, you have thrown me for a loop...WHAT THE HECK are you talking about???

 

"...would it not seem like a violation of ADA to not have someone escort you to the elevator ..."???

 

What planet are YOU from? The ADA deals with access...not services. It requires that certain sized accessable elevators exist...or ramps...that doorways be of a width to accommodate wheelchairs...and so on...But NOWHERE does it require that anyone provide escorts to the elevator...That sort of requirement would be preposterous...

 

Now, I note that you CLAIM to have gone to Law School (Something I am having trouble picturing for some reason) and received a "JD" (I don't see you speaking of actually having passed the bar in any state)...But that you "no longer practice law" and have returned to the "construction business"...I would imagine though that even in the construction business, one would have to have some concept of ADA requirements...and certainly, prior to posting as completely nonsensical a post as yours above, would have thought long enough to realize that you'd get called on it?

 

So, is that another one of your complaints? That you didn't get an escort to the elevator? I'd love to see your court filings on your alleged ADA case...This is getting better all the time...

[lysolqn]

I think a good number of my brain cells just committed suicide after reading the above passage.

 

Too funny!

[Amlee]

As far as the math, per cruise; since we joined founder's club, Captain's Club before they merged with RCL, we get one point per cruise Celebrity or RCL for duration of 7 days or less, and 1 extra day for 14 days plus, plus one more for Concierge Class.

 

Therefore 1+1+1+1+2+1+3+1= 11 cruise points Celebrity/RCL.

 

 

While you can share status among the cruise lines. They aren't counted together as an equal amount. You have 8 Celebrity sailings, which puts you at at Select level on Celebity. You have 3 sailings with Royal, which put you at Gold with them. But because you are Select with Celebrity that puts you at Platinum with Royal. Royal will meet your Celebrity sailing level, as Celebrity well met your Royal level. But the two can't be added up together.

 

As for the deaths, it was none of your business.

 

As for the rumors, common sense should have told you that the cruise line wouldn't open them self up to a major lawsuit by putting pax or crew in harms way.

 

As for the change of the itn, snit happens all the time. There is no promies you will make your ports of call. If your looking to enjoy a certain port, then your best choice is to fly there.

 

I have to wonder just how you were acting and your wording when you apporched Celebrity about getting off the ship and catching up later. I say this because I had no problem with this in Sept. They told me to enjoy myself and they would see me when I got back on board. I was even switching countries. My plans did change and I make it back on the ship before it left port. But they had no problem in me doing this.

[cdbaum]

I've been leafing through my copy of the ADA guidelines. Strangely there is nothing that relates to tendering or elderly persons. It also doesn't appear that the ADA applies to foreign flagged cruise ships. I believe that most cruise lines make every effort to design as closely as they can to the various guidelines while taking into account the constraints of ship construction. That is just good business. By the way, airplanes are not required to comply with ADA either.

 

My experience has been that the crew on the ship typically provides whatever assistance they can to those with mobility limitations while tendering. I have also seen them keep people from boarding tenders prior their assigned slot. Additionally I know that they will make special provisions for passengers that need help above and beyond the norm. Of course that is only my experience, your mileage may vary. Could be because we're Elite Captains Club however.

[Janan]

I enjoyed the content of this thread immensley! I'm sorry that 2 people died in order to cause this hissy fit on the part of the OP...but perhaps the op should take this act on the road.

 

I can empathize with the op as far as unexpected things (the deaths) happening on their vacation; however, the op's response was, IMHO way over the top. I hope their next cruise is better.

 

Andy

[Sea Island Lady]

Whatever, I think the OP's major complaint is that he/she didn't get to finish his Halloween partying! :D

[pkhddt]

Dave,

 

Thanks for your opinion in a thoughtful, rational manner. We have had some truly great times on Celebrity, and other lines. Perhaps, due to my utter frustration with the whole event, my words did not come out clearly, making it seem as though I was looking for something special by the number of cruises we have been on. That is not the case. I am just amazed at the way some people post, as if you post a "critical" review on a "critic" site, you would swear you just told them there was no Santa Claus.

 

As far as the points for cruising: I know it does not entitle you to information, not intended for the public. I made reference to the points simply because it is not our first cruise. In addition to other lines, we have been with Celebrity since our first cruise on 2001. While not an entitlement to "inside information" I think it does entitle you to a little respect on the phone, as it signals that we have sailed with them for (7) years.

 

I also know that the points on Celebrity count on RCL, up to (I believe 2006 because we got credit for our RCL plus Celebrity completed before 2007 sailing on RCL) but not vice-versa. So, on RCL we are Platinum.

 

I wish someone would bet me on this, because I already researched it before our last cruise (that's one of the reason we booked it that way).

 

Celebrity gives (1) credit for sailing of 7 days or less. If you upgrade to Concierge Class accoodations, you add (1) more credit. If your sailing is more than 14 days, you add one more credit for a total of (3) credits. Therefore, on Celebrity alone, we have (8) sailing credits.

 

--

As far as the "island hopping": we didn't plan on doing this sa part of the cruise, as I agree, bad idea. But, once the itinerary changed due to the deaths aboard, we thought we could stay on Oahu....so that we didn't lug our costumes for no reason, fly to Maui the next day and rejoin the ship before it left. We had this idea as we have heard on some of our other cruises, if you are not back from shore when the ship leaves, it is your responsibility to rejoin the ship, AT YOUR COST. So we figured, well, let's miss the ship and rejoin at OUR COST. Good thing we asked first!

 

As far as what Celebrity could do about the elevator situation:

We were in Concierge Class, as were the elderly ladies traveling with us. One was recovering from breast cancer and chemo. This may have been her last trip to Hawaii. She was in a wheelchair and her friend was in a walker. You would think that Celebrity would LIKE to accompany the ladies to the tender, to see that they got there safely. Instead, we were issued (4) tickets with a number 5; we walked with them, and I pushed the wheelchair to the elevator. When the elevator opened, it was right at the line to the tender. We saw people that were in Michael's club waiting with us for the tender tickets in the line (many of the same ones that almost knocked the elderly ladies down in their haste to run to the stairs). They KNEW that we had our tickets before they did, they KNEW that our numbers were lower than theirs, nonetheless, they had to shout the most foul obscenities you could imagine at these ladies, for "jumping line."

 

They shouldn't have had to hear it, and I shouldn't have had to weigh my options and not want to go to jail in Hawaii for dropping a drunken loudmouth.

 

Had Celebrity escorted these ladies to the elevator and assisted them to rejoin the line, IT COULD HAVE ALL BEEN AVOIDED. Re your comment about ADA and applying to the handicapped: Does Breast Cancer, Congestive heart failure, hip/knee replacement and BOTH with state of California disabled placards make a difference???!!!

 

I think that this is largely where my anger is coming from, as it was so avoidable.

 

What troubles me more is that as a society, we are so redescent to say, "who's belly-aching" "the corporation must be in the right, he's just a whiner", instead of taking the time to get the facts in a calm rational manner, such as your last post.

 

This post has opened my eyes to the cruise community. Don't complain, even if you didn't get what you paid for. So, we should all remember that. When the contractor installs $ 150 formica instead of the $ 7k granite you paid for...quit belly aching. When the mechanic charges you for platinum plugs in yor car, just accept the copper and quit complaining. When the doctor is paid to remove the left arm, and he removes the right....why whine about it.....

 

This is supposed to be a forum for dialogue and reviews of cruises that sometimes do not live up to our expectations. Isn't it?

[lysolqn]

As far as the "island hopping": we didn't plan on doing this sa part of the cruise, as I agree, bad idea. But, once the itinerary changed due to the deaths aboard...QUOTE]

 

I think it's safe to assume the dead pax didn't plan on the itinerary change either; bet it was a bigger disappointment for them than it was for you!

[kitty9]

Hey Bruin Steve,

 

As a lawyer, I am sure you are familiar with the U.S.C. pertaining to Americans with Disabilities (ADA), and the fact that, regardless of ship's registry they "purposefully avail themselves" of doing business in the U.S., leaving from Florida.

 

We were traveling with (2) elderly passengers, 86 and 84, respectively.

 

When tendering, with priority disembarkation, would it not seem like a violation of ADA to not have someone escort you to the elevator so that when the doors open and you enter the line, other passengers do not hurl insults and obscenities at you, regardless of the fact you are holding ticket number (5) and they have (17) and higher. Does that sound fair to you? Hand out the tickets and have everyone make a mad dash for the tenders, only to hve the elderly pushed out of the way and when the elevator opens they are called B&%CH and C&%T, because they are trying to rejoin the line?

 

 

Are you kidding me???? The ADA has absolutely nothing to do with your situation. FYI, I was one of the original contributing members on various committees that made proposals to the original law, back then referred to as PL 94-142, which later became the Americans With Disabilities Act (we even testified in the Legislature to include various components in the original law). There's absolutely nothing in the law that states cruise ships, nor any other form of public transportation, must provide escorts anywhere. Where in the law do you find that rude people violate the ADA? I've been disabled since age 2, from polio, and I've had more than my share of rude, condescending able-bodied persons hurling insults and name calling, but I've never had the audacity to invoke the ADA to counter such incidents. Unfortunately, it's part and parcel of human nature to have to put up with such things when you're "different" from everyone else, but such happenings are not within the confines of the ADA. And forgive me, but I doubt the veracity of your comments regarding the use of the "C" word. I'm sorry, but your entire story is beginning to ring more and more convoluted. No doubt this is what you choose to remember as happening, but I suspect things were much less than what actually happened.

[wolfganghowell]

pk - I don't think anyone has disagreed with you on the instances in your last post. Most everyone disagrees with you on your insistence on your FIRST post. It would be nice if the crew could actively assist their elderly passengers who are disabled. However, they are not caregivers, nurses, hospice workers or medical personnel. People in fragile health who choose to travel are taking the risks themselves. Only they and their families or travel companions can decide if it is advisable or not. I agree with you that many passengers are absolutely dreadful to elderly and disabled passengers. I have held open elevator doors, opened doors, assisted some in food lines who looked overwhelmed. Most kindly say thank you - the heartbreaking part is when they look surprised and grateful that someone else has done the "right thing" by allowing them in the elevator first or holding the door so they can enter or exit. However, that is completely different than your FIRST post. (And on the flip side, I have seen elderly passengers verbally abuse others, cut lines and behave worse than a tantrum throwing 4 year old. I've also seen some dangerous maneuvers in wheelchairs or scooters simply to get ahead of those walking ahead of them who couldn't even see them coming.)

 

Sorry - but much of what you say is comparing apples to oranges - or formica to granite as the case may be.

 

And as a cruiser between RCCL and X, I can guarantee you that your credits are entirely separate on both lines. As has been explained, you are awarded the highest level on each line but your points do not change.

 

I hope your future Carnival cruise is much more to your liking.

 

I'm also wondering if the language you mention is an exaggeration. I can't imagine ANYONE using the words you implied to 2 women in their 80s. NO ONE.

[richsea]

As per your signature; "The worst sea day is better than the best work day."

 

IMO, life's too short...... just get on with your life.;)

[shabal57]

The older I get, the more amazed I am by some people. I just really believe that life is what you make of it. I know a number of people who are just not happy unless they are unhappy about something. I have been on 4 cruises and honestly only one was able to go to all the ports that were on the itinerary. Was I disappointed? Absolutely. Did I get over it? Absolutely. It is totally out of our control. Period. Get over it.

 

Yes, we all want to believe that we are special and the rules don't apply to us. But they do. To blame Celebrity for what happened, when they obviously did everything right is just so absurd.

 

As far as people dying on a cruise, well unfortunately, I think it happens alot more than anyone even realizes. When you have thousands of people on a ship, especially if there are many elderly people, the odds are it will happen.

 

Life is too short to be so angry!!!

[Cruise Arizona]

I deal with the ADA--The "Americans with Disabilities Act" for the record-virtually every day...My actual job for the past 17 years of my 30+ year career in the legal business is as counsel to the nation's largest and oldest HMO--.

 

 

Steve,

 

Ge wiz, after your first post I was sure that you worked for the cruise line? It must be the rest of us that are really cruise line employees that are posting here. :)

 

This example should serve as a cautionary tale. Cruisers should take note of the fact that itineraries can change at any time for any reason.... mechanical, weather, political, safety, or "dead people". When planing the shore excursion portion of a cruise, passengers should keep that in mind and not get stuck with an excursion that they can't cancel, or Halloween party tickets that they can't use. We thought about this when we booked out 1/2 day snorkle and boat tour excursion in Kona. I booked this tour privately and when I made my reservation I asked what our liability would be if we could not make it into Kona for the excursion. The boat captain was very reasonable and said that it would be just $75 to our credit card should be not be able to make our $600 excursion.

 

Because of the possibility that itineraries might have to be changed, never make plans that you can't change or just live with-out. Hurricanes have caused cruises to be changed from the Bahamas to New Englan and Canada... when brides were planning on having their wedding in the Bahamas during the cruise. So if you HAVE to be in a particular plance on a particular day, don't take a cruise to get there.

[Nonna and Papa]

In order to write the type of post that you did, you must have been very upset about having your carefullyplanned cruise vacation inconvenienced. I'm very sorry for this. But other than your complete insensitivity to the situation that occurred on board, I fail to understand why you or any other passenger would expect to be told of a situation that isn't any of your concern? There is so much emphasis these days placed on privacy, I would think that everyone is aware of this fact.

 

I have to agree with the regulations regarding privacy as dictated by the HIPAA laws. I take care of my 95 year old father in law. I drive and accompany him to all his medical appointments and treatments, and sit by his bedside during his hospitalizations, while my husband (who is his power of attorney) is at work. Unless he gives permission for the doctors, and/or hospitals to speak to me about is going on medically with him, it is against the law for any information to be given to me. And I am the one most involved with his care. Even in our church, names of the sick cannot be added to the prayer list, unless specifically called in to the church office and permission given to have the person added to the weekly bulletin. (HIPAA laws agai.

 

Also, because my father in law must rely on a walker for support, any time we need to go from one place to another, we allow additional time to do this, because he walks slowly at times. (Other times I can hardly keep up with him)! Perhaps you might consider this the next time you are escorting elderly people from place to place. It would alleviate a potentially stressful situation - as you found.

 

Perhaps you might want to rethink this situation.

 

Mary

[CatServants]

My, my my. Quite a thread!

 

pkhddt - I'm sorry you were so disappointed with your cruise vaca. You were obviously greatly frustrated by a myriad of events. But, I have to admit, I don't really understand your anger.

 

2 people died on board. Very sad. But really, as it affected their fellow pax, it was nothing more than an inconvenient detour. I'm sure you know very well that the circumstances of their deaths were not the business of their fellow pax. Had a contagion been involved the entire ship would have been notified. And NO, I would NOT have feared for my safety. My immediate thought would have been, "How sad. Those poor families", and on with my cruise. I'm sure you weren't afraid either until you started listening to the idiotic and disgusting gossip.

 

These events could occur on any cruise line and I suspect the situation would have been handled in the same manner. Put yourself in the position of the deceased persons family. Would you have wanted/allowed X to spread the details of your beloveds death for public consumption. What do you think of the "rumor mill" from this point of view?

 

Cruise Points? Who cares?! I suspect you were actually unhappy because you felt as though the X rep denigrated your experience and position ("only!"). I'm sorry you were made to feel that way. Impolitic of him.

 

The elevator/tender situation. I hope both ladies are doing well. There always seems to be an ill mannered lout or 2 when lines are involved. It's a pity, but a fact of life. I think it's unreasonable to expect X to provide escort and I'm not sure how X is to blame for pax who are jerks. 2 elderly ladies in wheelchairs, healthy or not, deserve respect and consideration. I can only assume that these people were the same type of rude, heartless, disrespectful, low lifes that might indulge in hysterical gossip about the deaths of 2 fellow pax.

 

I hope your next cruise is everything of which you dream....but be prepared for life's little accidents.

 

Denise

[jealdaka]

pk

 

And as a cruiser between RCCL and X, I can guarantee you that your credits are entirely separate on both lines. As has been explained, you are awarded the highest level on each line but your points do not change.

 

 

 

Could be wrong, but I don't think she believes all of us!!!! :D

 

Gosh, if her rules really were correct I could have been Diamond a whole lot quicker! My friend has 8 Celebrity and 9 Royal and still isn't Diamond or Elite.

[Gonzo70]

Dave,

 

When the elevator opened, it was right at the line to the tender. We saw people that were in Michael's club waiting with us for the tender tickets in the line (many of the same ones that almost knocked the elderly ladies down in their haste to run to the stairs). They KNEW that we had our tickets before they did, they KNEW that our numbers were lower than theirs, nonetheless, they had to shout the most foul obscenities you could imagine at these ladies, for "jumping line."

 

 

Maybe they mistakenly believed the old ladies had the flesh eating bacterira rumored to be running rampant on the ship (along with the norwood virus) and were yelling in fear, not realizing that it was just all part of an elaborate trick or treat scheme. :cool:

[lysolqn]

This thread is like a bad car accident...you know you shouldn't look but somehow you're compelled to slow down and look anyway.

[firstplacechef]

Forget all his complaints, I'm upset because he says there is no Santa Claus!

:{)

[kcb]

I also know that the points on Celebrity count on RCL, up to (I believe 2006 because we got credit for our RCL plus Celebrity completed before 2007 sailing on RCL) but not vice-versa. So, on RCL we are Platinum.

 

I wish someone would bet me on this, because I already researched it before our last cruise.

 

I'm in! Bet taken!

 

 

I am just amazed at the way some people post, as if you post a "critical" review on a "critic" site, you would swear you just told them there was no Santa Claus.

 

You're missing the point of Cruise Critic. There is nothing wrong with posting a critical review. That is merely posting your opinion of what occurred.

However, you should not be surprised when others are "critical" of your "review" when it goes long past being an opinion.

You are making errant judgment calls about how things should have been handled in your world. The world does not exist around you, however, and there are international laws and cruise line policies dictating the proper way to handle these things.

The responses here are merely explaining to you that your position and attitude in this whole situation is incorrect, and everyone is trying to point out how "off-the-mark" your thoughts, requests and demands really are.