R.C.C.L Respond To Immersion Crisis, Please

[Ephraim]

I read on our roll call that the Vision of the Seas Panama Canal repo cruise (1-4-09) is an immersion cruise. I certainly don't want 14 days of entertainment that I can't understand the language. I booked it a year in advance, our hotel and flights are paid and non-refundable for 4 people.:confused: I can pick up a few words of Spanish but that's all.:(

 

Proof?

 

The cruise is leaving from Los Angeles, CA and going to the Dominican. Did anyone really confirm this with RCL or is one more person calling FIRE in a crowded room?

[emdia43]

Its all very well people saying Immersion cruises arent so bad and why are people making such a fuss. Have these people actually tried it for themselves?.

We are from the UK. Weve just got off the Navigator which sailed from Barcelona. Lets just say I was glad to get off the ship for some peace and quiet.The large groups of Spanish were very loud and obviously not used to queuing as when there was a line of people they just pushed in at the front.

They were in large family groups and all talking and shouting at once which is why I guess all the ships anouncements were so loud so that they could hear them. Every announcement was said in English, Spanish, Portugese, French, Italian and German. It just got on your nerves having all announcements said 6 times over..We met people from several different countries and they were finding it all a bit much. I have nothing against the Spanish its just that any large group of another culture definately does change your usual cruise.If I had read this from someone elses post 2 weeks ago I probably would have thought this sounded quite pathetic but after experiancing it for myself, I realise how it can affect your cruise.It wasnt a horrible cruise but not a superb cruise either.

Of course when you visit a country it is nice to experiance other cultures but a lot of people including me like to be able to return to the ship and be in our comfort zone of what we are used to. Thats why we cruise American Cruiselines as we enjoy what they offer. I certainly will be carefull where we cruise from in the future as immersion cruises are not for us. Im not saying they are wrong but just not for us. If we are paying a lot of our hard earned money for a cruise I believe we should be able to have the choice by knowing what sort of cruise it will be at time of booking.

Sarah

I agree completely. For the first time ever I made negative comments on my Guest Survey and I did not enjoy the cruise for the most part. The permissive smoking policy was a huge culture shock and ruined most activities for me. I don't want to be immersed in smoke no matter whose custom it is.

[ddean52]

If you leave from England , yo will probably see some English "items" on the menus and in the Windjammer.....but its HARDLY a crisis.

They speak English, they read English...therefore i would not think of yours as an Immersion cruise.

Question to OP...if your business is partly European based, Asia, China etc.. when you go there to conduct business, do they change things for you? Their culture, food, business habits do not change, you adjust as you are there.

Seems like a large concern over something that will be English anyway....

JMHO

 

 

You missed the point!!!!!!! I could careless. Im talking abut not be excluded from my cruise. Im all for inclusion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cruisePRN]

1) Do you really think that they will change the entire staff and run examinations to ensure that they can't speak English? English will be the SECOND language on the ship, just not the first.

 

2) Excursions will be offered in English as long as there are enough customers asking for English.

 

3) Totally foreign food? So you think that the Spanish eat daisies, hay and hard boiled seaweed? No one has said that. Most food is international in nature and while they may add a few local dishes, there should be plenty to eat.

 

3) (Again, look above, it's not my fault!) This is a crisis? People are dying every day in wars all over the earth and this is a crisis?

 

4) Yup, all comedy in a foreign language, only foreign language music as well. You aren't even allowed to sit in the theatre if you are American-English speaking. Flamenco dancers dancing to Spanish music.. the horror, it would be better if they did Flamenco to Madonna songs from the 80s. (Sarcasm is definitely implied)

 

5) What REAL difference does the currency onboard make? If it's USD 8 or EUR 5 there is no real difference, other than the fact that some people don't know how to use a calculator and certainly can't manage to type 8 USD in EUR in google. Hey, maybe the world should switch to using USD everywhere just to make it easier for American tourists.

 

7) So, it was okay when the Spanish had to eat early to accommodate you, but not acceptable when you have to eat later to accommodate them?

 

This isn't a crisis at all. This is just another hysteric thread beating a dead horse.

Many don't share your pompous opinion :D

[dathy]

it seems to me (not talking about the original poster) that some folks are just posting smart "you-know-what i mean" replies, i.e., "what did you expect?" "English is spoken in England", "you're traveling", "you should be lucky that you can take the vacation" and the worst one of them all, "a crisis is a war."

 

why in the world would people write these things? they are horribly insensitive to the original poster's issue.

 

a kinder, gentler world is what we all deserve. let's help, not hurt.

 

thanks for reading this.

[ddean52]

.

 

If rccl could just give us the correct information I might feel better.

 

Yes, all I would like is the simple truth from Royal Carib.! Telling us what to expect would go a long way!

[Gixer]

.

 

If rccl could just give us the correct information I might feel better.

 

Yes, all I would like is the simple truth from Royal Carib.! Telling us what to expect would go a long way!

 

 

I think you just hit the nail on the head - all the people who have had immersion forced upon them by RCCL want nothing more than information. It really is time they came out with a statement and told people what they can expect - officially.

 

I took the descision to cancel our cruise, maybe this could have been avoided had RCCL actually done something about telling me and everyone else what changes will take place. But they havent, and in doing so have lost a $16K booking.

 

I have spoken to several people at RCCL who have all had different ''suggestions'' as to what an immersion cruise really is - Im sorry, but I dont want suggestions that differ from customer service agent to customer service agent, I want facts, and I havent had any so far.

 

If people knew exactly what an immersion cruise was and how it would affect them, then they have all the information they need to make a considered, informed descision, unfortuanatley RCCL hasnt provided its cutomers with that information, hence all this confusion. I feel so bad for all the folks who have already booked airfare/excursions etc I would hate to be in your situation.

 

I am lucky, I found out in plenty enough time to cancel with no costs incured and enough time to sort out an alternative vacation. I really think the people who are preaching to the folks who are stuck between a rock and a hard place are pretty insensitive - imagine how you would feel if you booked something over a year in advance, had laid down a lot of money only to have it all switched at the last minute - You may say that you would embrace such changes, but somehow I dont think so :rolleyes:

[Yvie]

Proof?

 

The cruise is leaving from Los Angeles, CA and going to the Dominican. Did anyone really confirm this with RCL or is one more person calling FIRE in a crowded room?

 

That's the problem! No one can confirm anything with RCCL because however many people you ask a question of is how many different answers you will get. Which one of the multitude of answers would you suggest we select? We'd have better odds of getting a correct answer by rolling dice.

[Ephraim]

Many don't share your pompous opinion :D

 

Nor yours.

 

That's the problem! No one can confirm anything with RCCL because however many people you ask a question of is how many different answers you will get. Which one of the multitude of answers would you suggest we select? We'd have better odds of getting a correct answer by rolling dice.

 

So, in the absence of clear information you are saying that you should run around yelling fire in hopes that it's true? This is a January cruise this person is talking about (I had to look twice, since American dates are inverted for me). And it's leaving from LA and will therefore have an enormous amount of Americans onboard and yet someone is creating needless panic without proof.

 

Can you imagine if people did this with medical information? Doctor, I may have kidney failure, but I'm unsure and I have no symptoms. But give me the dialysis treatments and schedule me for a kidney transplant just to be sure.

[temple1]

I read on our roll call that the Vision of the Seas Panama Canal repo cruise (1-4-09) is an immersion cruise. I certainly don't want 14 days of entertainment that I can't understand the language. I booked it a year in advance, our hotel and flights are paid and non-refundable for 4 people.:confused: I can pick up a few words of Spanish but that's all.:(

 

I noticed on the RCCL website the Asian "immersion" cruises contained the following wording:

 

Take a trip back in time to visit ancient temples, or take the shopping trip of a lifetime. Asia will delight your senses with exotic sights, sounds and tastes like no other vacation you've ever experienced.

 

Please note: this product has been sold almost exclusively to guests from Asia; therefore the services and product have been tailored to their cultural preferences in food and beverage, entertainment and retail. While English language assistance will be provided, the local language will be the primary language spoken onboard. Please check with your local consulate or embassy regarding visa requirements.

*** All itineraries are subject to change without notice. Please confirm your itinerary on the Review page before purchasing your cruise.

For the 1/4/08 Vision cruise the following wording is used:

 

The creation of the Panama Canal literally changed the world - so just imagine what it can do for your vacation. With tropical jungles, white-sand beaches and vibrant cultures in every port of call, a cruise through this engineering masterpiece is nothing short of amazing.

*** All itineraries are subject to change without notice. Please confirm your itinerary on the Review page before purchasing your cruise.

 

I hope RCCl will post a statement soon about what "immersion" means to them. We now know what it means to almost all users of CC. ;)

[Yvie]

Nor yours.

 

 

 

So, in the absence of clear information you are saying that you should run around yelling fire in hopes that it's true? This is a January cruise this person is talking about (I had to look twice, since American dates are inverted for me). And it's leaving from LA and will therefore have an enormous amount of Americans onboard and yet someone is creating needless panic without proof.

 

Can you imagine if people did this with medical information? Doctor, I may have kidney failure, but I'm unsure and I have no symptoms. But give me the dialysis treatments and schedule me for a kidney transplant just to be sure.

 

People are commenting on what information they have been given by Royal Caribbean customer service and Crown & Anchor reps. Why don't you enlighten us as to what your definition of proof is?

 

Also, anyone reading your posts can tell you have an obvious chip on your shoulder when it comes to Americans.

 

In response to your medical example, you obviously are not in the medical profession.

[MakinGold]

I noticed on the RCCL website the Asian "immersion" cruises contained the following wording:

 

Take a trip back in time to visit ancient temples, or take the shopping trip of a lifetime. Asia will delight your senses with exotic sights, sounds and tastes like no other vacation you've ever experienced.

 

Please note: this product has been sold almost exclusively to guests from Asia; therefore the services and product have been tailored to their cultural preferences in food and beverage, entertainment and retail. While English language assistance will be provided, the local language will be the primary language spoken onboard. Please check with your local consulate or embassy regarding visa requirements.

*** All itineraries are subject to change without notice. Please confirm your itinerary on the Review page before purchasing your cruise.

For the 1/4/08 Vision cruise the following wording is used:

 

The creation of the Panama Canal literally changed the world - so just imagine what it can do for your vacation. With tropical jungles, white-sand beaches and vibrant cultures in every port of call, a cruise through this engineering masterpiece is nothing short of amazing.

*** All itineraries are subject to change without notice. Please confirm your itinerary on the Review page before purchasing your cruise.

 

I hope RCCl will post a statement soon about what "immersion" means to them. We now know what it means to almost all users of CC. ;)

 

It seems that what you quoted above (the part I highlighted) is a pretty clear statement of what immersion means to them.

[temple1]

That is true, but I hope it helps Mtncouple since everyone on the Vision repo cruise seems to be convinced it is an immersion cruise.

 

Like I said, I sure hope RCCl soon clarifies the concept just to slow down the rumor (or should I type rumour?) mill. Of course after I typed that I had to stop for a few giggles and a couple of guffaws. :D

[curley23]

Another good night reading the usual nonsense on this subject. E, you as usual are making good sense. MG keep up the good humor.

[syotyu]

I can understand why you would be upset if your cruise turned into a language class at sea. I enjoy that sort of thing but a lot of people don't. I do think if you are dissatisfied with RCI you should find someone there who does know something. The crown and anchor rep sounds like a good place to start. As long as they refund all of your money if you cancel the cruise, I don't see the need for ongoing anger.

[ab1881]

But even if we would be allowed to cancel the cruise only four weeks from sail date we still lose our transatlantic flight which is non refundable. My husband is handicapped and uses a mobility scooter so the best way for us to see these countries is on a cruise because it's so handicapped accesible compared to european hotels.

 

Wer'e obviously going on the cruise and I hope we all enjoy it. It just would be nice to have some confirmed information from rc.

[Ephraim]

People are commenting on what information they have been given by Royal Caribbean customer service and Crown & Anchor reps. Why don't you enlighten us as to what your definition of proof is?

 

Also, anyone reading your posts can tell you have an obvious chip on your shoulder when it comes to Americans.

 

In response to your medical example, you obviously are not in the medical profession.

 

Proof is real information and not disinformation. The website doesn't list the cruise with the warning at all. The port of embarkation isn't one of the mentioned ports.

 

No. I have met some really wonderful Americans and the other way as well. From my perspective (not being a citizen of the USA) I just don't have the same expectations as many people on this thread who are American are expressing.

 

I have never gone on vacation and expected that everyone will accept my currency. If I go to Europe, I bring Euros. If I go to the US, I bring US Dollars. When I was in South America I had to deal with Argentinian, Uruguayan and Chilean Pesos as well as GBP.

 

When I go on vacation, I go to experience another country's culture. That means that I just have to deal with the fact that I'm unable to speak their language. It's not their responsibility for my lack of not speaking their language, it's my fault. I go with no expectations.

 

I have eaten some odd things on vacations and when I couldn't find something that I liked, I have eaten fruit, vegetables and even hamburgers.

 

I've been on many tours in my day. I can often be seen with a travel book or even a few pages that I have cut out of my travel book. I have even hired local guides who speak English.

 

You can read anything you want into it... but reading something into it doesn't make it reality. I am who I am and I think individuals are very different from the collective. In other words, all generalizations are false including this one. I have a different perspective and like it or lump it, I'm entitled to my opinion. I don't understand the expectation that everything will be centred on MY country because when I leave mine, nothing is. I bend to the country that I'm visiting. Be that it is the US, France, Spain or even Argentina. It is the fact that I am not from the US that gives me this perspective.

 

I'm sorry if you don't like my perspective. I respect that fact that you have yours and I expect that you will respect that I have mine. Maybe the fact that my perspective is different will make you think a bit about the fact that asking for everything to be in your currency, culture and language is an unrealistic expectation. Maybe not. But at least it has made you think.

 

The next time you come to Canada, think about that when you ask us what the weather is like and we tell you that it's 20 degrees outside and how odd it sounds to us when you say it's 65 outside.

 

And no, I'm not a medical professional. My example was just to illustrate the fact that you don't panic and treat something until you are sure.

[suziehmkr]

I think this has more to do with what was expected when the cruise was booked. If you are booking a vacation with an American company and no notation has been made at the time of booking that your cruise experience will be any different than any other RCCL cruise, then they are creating a situation that is not the best for those involved.

 

It is one thing to know ahead of time and you can DECIDE whether or not you want to take on this experience, and quite another to have it changed on you so late in the game.

 

Yes - people cruise to enjoy new cultures, etc. But if you are booking with a company that is American based, you come to expect the traditional RCCL cruise. Now, if I were flying into another country to hop on another company's ship, like P & O or any of those - then I can fully expect that I would be the minority and need to cope with the foreign experience onboard.

 

Again - I think most people are just plain upset because it was done after the fact.

[Mikel1733]

Crisis?? HUH??

 

What crisis?

 

Do you really think RCCL has to discuss their business decisions with the passengers?

 

Believe me' date=' they don't. RCCL owes no explanation of their marketing strategy to you or anyone else.... They answer only to their stockholders on these decisions.

 

There isn't any crisis here....if you want an American experience all the time......stay in the U.S. and go to a State Park.[/quote']

 

 

I'm glad you could add something nice and positive to the thread.:rolleyes:

[BaccaratBoy]

Ephraim, don't you ever sleep?

 

I get a real chuckle out of your posts. Especially considering how tolerant the Quebecois are of English speakers in Canada. Montcalm had the right of it.

 

How many RCL cruises have you been on? I am new to the board in relative terms and don't recall you posting this info.

 

I also wonder at your intransigence. Is it so incredibly difficult to comprehend why people who have purchased one product appear upset at the thought it might be delivered in a different form? Will it be terrible? Probably not. Maybe even fun or beneficial. But people dislike the unknown and prefer certainty. If one wanted serendipity, one would not cruise. One would backpack with a total of 20 Euros in one's pocket for 2 weeks, as I have done, and see where the wind blew you.

 

Instead of this situation, envision a situation where the cruise ship suddenly elects to depart 45 minutes prior to schedule (they have that right in all likelihood) and leaves a flyer on the pier saying, oh, by the way, today we left early, hope nobody minds. We apologize for the inconvenience of not informing you prior to our departure. That would be a true immersion cruise.

 

Could be lots of fun.

[CanTex]

Looks like our once mighty American $ isn't quite so mighty anymore.

 

Money speaks, and I suppose RCI is more interested in growing their "new" markets and not too worried about those that they're leaving behind as they make these shifts.

[abridalmaven]

Mark my words, this will turn out to be a crisis for RCCL. I was a huge fan of this cruise line! I retired early, Alice and I took 2 cruises last year and planed to do 2 this year and in the years to come do at least 3 cruises or more per yr. Should our June, immersion cruise not be to our liking, I.E.

 

1) English not spoken by ship staff ( are they going to fire all if their current staff to accomodate this, I can not see them doing this or forcing them to learn all new languages all speak other languages, English being one of them)

2) Excursions in a forging laungage( in a foreign country this is the norm) PS learn to spell the word correctly the world you are using does not even come close to the meaning you have given it.

3) Food totally forging ( what does this mean? Does all your food have to be plain american food?)

3) Smoking area expanded ( have you even been to Europe, they smoke everywhere)

4) Entertainment in forging language ( I guess when we were in Hawaii we were on an Immersion cruise the entertainment was Hawaiin)

5) Euros as on board currency ( and why should the minority of the passengers have to get priority)

7) Meal times drastically different ( you can are not forced to eat at the late seating or in the dining room)

Then we will find other cruising vendors to give our money too!!

That is your choice, so let me see you go to a FOREIGN country, and expect everything to be American, nice wishful thinking.:rolleyes:

 

Maybe this was not handled correctly I am not sure, but it is not a crisis.

[Ephraim]

Ephraim, don't you ever sleep?

 

I get a real chuckle out of your posts. Especially considering how tolerant the Quebecois are of English speakers in Canada. Montcalm had the right of it.

 

How many RCL cruises have you been on? I am new to the board in relative terms and don't recall you posting this info.

 

I also wonder at your intransigence. Is it so incredibly difficult to comprehend why people who have purchased one product appear upset at the thought it might be delivered in a different form? Will it be terrible? Probably not. Maybe even fun or beneficial. But people dislike the unknown and prefer certainty. If one wanted serendipity, one would not cruise. One would backpack with a total of 20 Euros in one's pocket for 2 weeks, as I have done, and see where the wind blew you.

 

Instead of this situation, envision a situation where the cruise ship suddenly elects to depart 45 minutes prior to schedule (they have that right in all likelihood) and leaves a flyer on the pier saying, oh, by the way, today we left early, hope nobody minds. We apologize for the inconvenience of not informing you prior to our departure. That would be a true immersion cruise.

 

Could be lots of fun.

 

I'm a bat, I do sleep, but only upside down and hanging from the ceiling.

 

I won't get into Quebec politics for two reasons. One is that it's specifically forbidden on CC (and is publicly posted in the Canadian forum) but secondly because most people don't understand it from a political or historical standpoint. Having grown up in Montreal and having a degree in Political Science I can get into such subject easily, but most people can't talk politics without taking things personally. it's just best left undiscussed.

 

I'm sure that I have repeatedly said that I sympathize. I really do. But I also sympathize with RCL. Not only because I have seen the changes and the losses of personnel, but also because I'm a shareholder and I want a return on my stock. Everyone is in a tough situation. If RCL doesn't sell the berths, they go out of business. And they need to cater to the majority of the people on the ship. If that majority is American, that's fine, if it isn't well, then things need to change.

 

Incidentally, in my younger days I have travelled with nothing but a few dollars in my account, a train ticket and a backpack. If you look at my travel map, it shows that. In Western Europe, the only countries I haven't visited are Lichtenstein, San Marino, Andorra and Malta (if you count that as Western Europe.)

 

As I said, being a teacher, I understand that people don't like the unknown. In particular people from the US which is an extremely conservative (and intransitive) country. I deal with it when I teach. I've said it before, it isn't being handled correctly... on either side of this equation. There are just TOO many people running around here and yelling "FIRE" with no real basis.

 

The Independence of the Seas is exactly the proof we need. A year ago it was announced by RCL that they were going to change the cruises that were planned for the Independence because of the British passengers. I realize that many people didn't really notice that announcent by RCL, but I certainly caught it and realized what it meant What they announced was that they would be doing 14 day cruises from the UK to Southern Europe (Spain) and the Canaries. The reasoning was simple.... while many Americans taken 7 day vacations it's unusual for th British to take such short holidays. RCL's announcement was a clear indication that they were making a shift.

 

Another trend that many people have seemed to miss is that there are more and more ships that are skipping US ports entirely. The time to clear US CBP is prohibitive and so some ships in the Caribbean skip all US ports. RCL and Princess have made this change and at least one Costa ship, but most people just haven't taken heed.

 

These "immersion" cruises are an extension of the American homeporting that came into fashion after 9/11. As more and more rooms come online the number of Americans on the ships are becoming a smaller and smaller percentage. If I remember my stats correcly, Americans are no longer the majority (but they are the largest single group of cruisers.) There are a few more trends out there, including smaller lines taking over older ships, like Pulmantur for Spain.

 

Add to all of this the fact that the US is in a bad recession and less people are travelling. Don't take me wrong, I understand where people are coming from. On the other hand I realize that this can ruin a vacaction before it's even started. Instead of going with the flow some people are going to go with a negative attitude and it will run through their vacation. I woud HATE to have my vacation ruined before I even got there.

 

The reality is that you can't control everything. It's impossible. And sometimes you just have to adapt and go with the flow. You can be mad all you want. You can scream, yell and pout... but in the end it's all for neigh. It's just not going to change the fact that this ship has a large group booked that isn't American and they need to be treated with the exact same respect that American guests are demanding... because they are the majority of the cruisers.

 

As I said, maybe it's because I come from a small country and never expect things to be done to suit me. For me, this is the other shoe. Maybe it's a way for some people to understand what it feels like to not be able to get the temperature in celcius. To have everything priced in a foreign currency, when that currency is the USD.

 

Personally, I like sociology and anthropology, so exploring a different culture is just cake to me.

[Ephraim]

Looks like our once mighty American $ isn't quite so mighty anymore.

 

Money speaks, and I suppose RCI is more interested in growing their "new" markets and not too worried about those that they're leaving behind as they make these shifts.

 

Exactly. I've been saying this on CC for the last year or so. People often seem to shoot the messenger around here because they just don't like the message.... the Caribbean is one of the least profitable places to run a cruise ship today. More of the cruise companies are moving their ships to more profitable locations and leaving ships in Europe for longer or even over the winter. It's a reality that people will just have to adjust to.

[Highlander0108]

If you leave from England , yo will probably see some English "items" on the menus and in the Windjammer.....but its HARDLY a crisis.

They speak English, they read English...therefore i would not think of yours as an Immersion cruise.

Question to OP...if your business is partly European based, Asia, China etc.. when you go there to conduct business, do they change things for you? Their culture, food, business habits do not change, you adjust as you are there.

Seems like a large concern over something that will be English anyway....

JMHO

 

If you leave from England and are from the USA, you will find the Brits are ever so polite and "que up" for just about everything in the most orderly and civil fashion. We found this on our Cunard QE2 cruise in complete contrast to our past Costa experiences, which had a fair amount of extremely rude europeans onboard. Enjoy your Fish n' Chips and by all means try the Mushy Peas! And don't forget the Guiness.:)

 

That being said, if I were to book a Cunard cruise and find out later that English would not be the primary language and the food would be tailored to a certain geographical region without me knowing in advance, I too would be rather upset.