R.C.C.L Respond To Immersion Crisis, Please

[thecruisechick]

I have never heard RCCL refer to any of it's cruises as "Immersion Cruise" and I even asked my cruise rep who said she did not hear that either. Someone on this board used that word and it took off like wild fire. I respect and appreciate a lot of the info I get here but being a seasoned pro in the cruise business I also have read some first class BS on this board that people believe. Take what you hear with a grain of salt until you actually see it in writing from RCCL.

 

RCCL posted this press release in April upon receiving IOS. NEVER a mention of Immersion Cruises. They DO have the right to change itineraries. Since they were doing a lot of business with European's it was very smart for them to home port a ship there. I think it's a great idea and it gives the European's a chance to experience what we all know is a great vacation. They are not changing their whole fleet and they do understand their core customers are American's and also at the same time recognize the fact that Europe has a strong currency now and people have money to spend and they are trying to make it as comfortable for them as they do for us. There are so many ships in Europe now, and you don't have to stay on this one.

I've sailed on every itinerary RCCL does in Europe and have always had "local" foods on the menu. Going to Europe is not like going to the Caribbean, it's an experience of foods, people and culture and you should embrace every detail of it.

Sorry for ranting but I don't understand why people are so upset. If you want to experience the "American Way" stay home!!!! Why fight with our friends accross the pond over something none of us control? If you look at the RCCL website on the itinerary section of the cruise you are booking it says: Please note: this product has been sold almost exclusively to guests from the United Kingdom; therefore the services and product have been tailored to their cultural preferences in food and beverage, entertainment and retail.

 

Press Release Summary:

 

Royal Caribbean International Takes Delivery of Independence Of The Seas

Third in Famed Freedom Class of Ships, Independence is the First to Sail in Europe

 

MIAMI, April 17, 2008 - Continuing its legacy of creating revolutionary vacation experiences, Royal Caribbean International took delivery of its newest innovative ship - Independence of the Seas - during a ceremony at Aker Yards in Turku, Finland, today. Just days away from her debut in Europe, Independence of the Seas, is the third of the line's Freedom class of ships and will be the largest cruise ship ever to be home-ported in Europe, when she sails out of Southampton, United Kingdom, for her inaugural season. Independence shares the title of world's largest and most innovative cruise ship with sister-ships Freedom of the Seas and Liberty of the Seas, which launched in the U.S. in May 2006 and 2007 respectively, and which offer Caribbean cruises from Miami, Florida.

 

"We are delighted to welcome Independence of the Seas to our fleet and to introduce her to vacationers throughout the United Kingdom and Europe," said Adam Goldstein, president and CEO, Royal Caribbean International. "Positioning one of our largest and newest ships in Southampton reaffirms Royal Caribbean's strong commitment to the region and will provide the opportunity for more European guests to experience the distinctive and award-winning vacation our brand has become recognized for throughout the world."

 

Guests also can enjoy two, four-night getaways from Southampton to Cork, Ireland and St. Peter Port, Channel Islands. Three, 11-night Canary Islands itineraries, also roundtrip from Southampton, will close the fall season, calling on Madeira, Portugal; Tenerife, Las Palmas and Lanzarote, Canary Islands; and Vigo, Spain. Independence then heads to the United States to begin a series of warm weather Eastern and Western Caribbean sailings from Fort Lauderdale, Florida starting in November 2008.

 

At 160,000 GRT and a capacity of 3,634 guests, Independence of the Seas will feature all of the industry-first amenities which are trademarks of the Freedom-class ships: a FlowRider surf simulator; the H20 Zone water park with its interactive sculpture garden for families; cantilevered whirlpools suspended 112 ft. above the ocean in the adults-only Solarium; a full-size boxing ring and a 14-person family suite. Unlike her sister-ships, all pools and the water park on Independence will be heated.

 

Royal Caribbean International is a global cruise brand with 21 ships currently in service and two under construction. The line also offers unique cruisetour vacations in Alaska, Asia, Australia, Canada, Europe, South America and New Zealand.

[emdia43]

Reason to stay away:- the biggest cultural difference

In a word.... SMOKING.

[MakinGold]

You mean, their paying customers, the ones without whom there would BE no RCI or stockholders? The people who paid for one product and are now being told the product has changed materially and they're just going to have to like it?

 

Let's say you've decided to renovate your house and redo all the floors in hardwood. You contracted with the company, chose the product, paid a deposit and then the week before installation, the company called and said, "We've decided hardwoods aren't profitable for us right now, so we've switched over to wood-laminate floors. We'll be installing a wood-laminate throughout your house next week, but wanted to let you know.

 

"What kind of wood-laminate floors? Who's the manufacturer? What's the color and will it match our previous order in quality and type?" You ask

 

"Well, we're not really sure, but it will surely be a nice brand and a very pretty color and many of our other customers love this stuff!! it'll be great. Just different! We'll also be expecting your final payment at that time. Kthxbye."

 

I mean, it's a business decision on their part, right? So it's all good?

 

Look, I'm not saying immersion cruises will be a bad thing uniformly. the issue here is the change from what was purchased--at a considerable expense--compared to what will be delivered. And NOT everyone will like it. I *do* think people have a right to be a bit nonplussed by the bait and switch here. They ABSOLUTELY have a right to question "a business decision" that changes the product they've already paid money for, prior to getting.

 

I'm sure most people would be upset by the situation you describe in the wood-floor analogy, but it's not a particularly good comparison. For one thing, when you purchase a cruise, there is no guarantee of what the menu will be, what the entertainment will be or even what the primary language spoken by the staff will be. You might make some assumptions about that, based on past experience, but it is not explicitly agreed upon.

 

So, it's more like contracting with a company to put in wood floors, assuming it's going to be solid hardwood, because that's what you got last time or what you heard other people had gotten, then being told it was going to be laminate floors.

[MakinGold]

Reason to stay away:- the biggest cultural difference

In a word.... SMOKING.

 

Is that based on some actual experience? If we're talking about UK, my understanding is that they have some pretty strict restrictions about smoking in public areas in recent years. Maybe the cultural difference isn't as big as you think.

[Lisa-UK]

SMOKING :eek:

 

I agree with MakinGold who pipped me in there!

 

The UK have really tightened up the smoking laws lately. I also believe that a lot of the ships have restricted their 'smoking areas' to certain decks.

 

I don't think smoking is as prevelant as it used to be.

[lisiamc]

Many people are acting as though only the cruises from the UK will be "immersion" cruises. We are on a cruise from Shanghai to Singapore. For the cruise before ours, the itinerary is marked to say:

 

"Please note: this product has been sold almost exclusively to guests from Asia; therefore the services and product have been tailored to their cultural preferences in food and beverage, entertainment and retail. While English language assistance will be provided, the local language will be the primary language spoken onboard. Please check with your local consulate or embassy regarding visa requirements."

 

I think this is a more significant change than just having baked beans and proper bacon for breakfast! Our original plan for cruising in the Far East was to have somewhere to retreat to at the end of each day where English is readily spoken. For the cruise before ours, this is not exactly the case, although they do promise that "English language assistance will be provided."

 

We're going, whether our date turns into an "immersion" cruise or not, but I would like to know where we stand before we go. I don't think that makes me xenophobic so much as well-informed. (And I can try to learn a few phrases in Mandarin in advance!)

 

 

Lisa

[Mines]

Reason to stay away:- the biggest cultural difference

In a word.... SMOKING.

 

This is not a good excuse. RCL have already stated that their smoking policy is fleetwide. I do not think that they will go back on this for immersion cruises. The only difference will be from the UK where smoking is banned in Britsh waters.

[Cruise Junky]

Is that based on some actual experience? If we're talking about UK, my understanding is that they have some pretty strict restrictions about smoking in public areas in recent years. Maybe the cultural difference isn't as big as you think.

 

I think the smoking comments are aimed at the Asian Immersion cruises, not the UK ones.

[Cruise Junky]

I'm sure most people would be upset by the situation you describe in the wood-floor analogy, but it's not a particularly good comparison. For one thing, when you purchase a cruise, there is no guarantee of what the menu will be, what the entertainment will be or even what the primary language spoken by the staff will be. You might make some assumptions about that, based on past experience, but it is not explicitly agreed upon.

 

So, it's more like contracting with a company to put in wood floors, assuming it's going to be solid hardwood, because that's what you got last time or what you heard other people had gotten, then being told it was going to be laminate floors.

 

I agree in part to what you're saying, but when this issue first came up, there were a couple of people who when they booked their cruises departing from a European port, did ask those questions and they were told there would be no changes to the normal RCI product.

[I LOVE SUITES]

Hello all

 

I have read with great interest this thread and the merged 'immersion threads' posted.

 

I am from the UK and will be on a so called 'immersion' cruise, in August.

 

When in Rome - do as the Romans

 

For me personally, if I travel to another country, cruise or not, I expect there to be cultural changes, different food, (sometimes weird and not to my taste) and language differences. What do I do? - I just make the best of it and enjoy a change from being at home - that is what holidays are all about.

 

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing

 

and the word 'immersion' has caused untold upset on these boards -

 

You are so right in the above statement, (Knickers in a twist comes to mind) I too will be on an Immersion Cruise in August aboard the Independence of the Seas, there has been so much B...S... within all these "Immersion Threads" that I have come up with the following facts gleaned through talking to passengers that have already sailed on the Independence, so for those of us that are sailing this year from Southampton onboard the Independence please find as follows the facts,

 

1. Currency Prices will still be in US Dollars.

2. ATM Machine onboard pays out in US Dollars.

3. There will be British Bacon and Sausages served at Breakfast.

4. Windjammer will still serve their usual buffet cuisine etc.

5. Jade will still serve asian cuisine.

6. Johnny Rockets will still serve Hamburgers, fries, onion rings etc.

7. Sorrento will still serve pizza.

8. Chops will still serve steaks.

9. Portifino will still serve their cuisine.

10.All the bars will still serve some USA beers

11.Instead of an America entertainment theme it will be mostly British.

12.Staterooms will still be the same.

13.Room service will still be the same.

14.Main Dining Room Food will still be similiar themes.

15.The Majority of Crew will not be British.

16.The Majority of the crew speaks at least 2 languages.

17.The Pools will be heated.

18.Southampton is still the Dock that Independence will sail from.

19.The majority of cruisers will be British.

20.The Language on board will mostly be English.

21.SO WHATS THE PROBLEM?

22.By the way I should point out to you, that I have read from Andrew cc that there is a rumour going around that the main bedding cover in each Stateroom will be the Union Jack:D I CANT POSSIBLY COMMENT ON THIS RUMOUR.

 

so thats about it, facts not fiction, My family and I are going to have a great time on board, as I hope all of you will, when you sail on the Independence this year from Southampton.

[CruzinCruzan]

Many people are acting as though only the cruises from the UK will be "immersion" cruises. We are on a cruise from Shanghai to Singapore. For the cruise before ours, the itinerary is marked to say:

 

"Please note: this product has been sold almost exclusively to guests from Asia; therefore the services and product have been tailored to their cultural preferences in food and beverage, entertainment and retail. While English language assistance will be provided, the local language will be the primary language spoken onboard. Please check with your local consulate or embassy regarding visa requirements."

 

 

Lisiamc:

 

Exactly where and when did you see the information you state above? :confused:

 

Yesterday I was in contact with Keith Jorgensen, Customer Business Development Manager for Strategic Accounts from RCCL and in reference to the SE Asian cruise on the Legend; Singapore to Shanghai 02/28/09 he wrote the following and I quote:

 

"This is NOT an Asian Emersion cruise. What we mean by short is 3 to 7 nts. Because these are shorter sailings the guest counts typically come from the local area. These longer sailings primarily make up guests from the UK and US. I want to apologize for the mis information but please know that this is NOT one of these sailings. I have spoken with our Revenue Mgmt dept that manages these sailings as well as the upper mgmt for our call centers to please communicate what these sailings are."

 

So I would like to know where you got that information...I just logged onto RCCL/RCI website and there is no information on the 14 nt SE Asian cruise being immersion.

 

As to the word "immersion" The term was in fact first used not by this board, but by the CSRs of RCCL/RCI when they informed us, the customer, through phone calls and by calling our TAs that our cruises would be immersion...

 

 

Please note that this information is only based on the SE Asian cruises of 14 nights as I have no specific information about the European cruises...

[Lisa-UK]

[]

I have come up with the following facts gleaned through talking to passengers that have already sailed on the Independence, so for those of us that are sailing this year from Southampton onboard the Independence please find as follows the facts,

 

1. Currency Prices will still be in US Dollars.

2. ATM Machine onboard pays out in US Dollars.

3. There will be British Bacon and Sausages served at Breakfast.

4. Windjammer will still serve their usual buffet cuisine etc.

5. Jade will still serve asian cuisine.

6. Johnny Rockets will still serve Hamburgers, fries, onion rings etc.

7. Sorrento will still serve pizza.

8. Chops will still serve steaks.

9. Portifino will still serve their cuisine.

10.All the bars will still serve some USA beers

11.Instead of an America entertainment theme it will be mostly British.

12.Staterooms will still be the same.

13.Room service will still be the same.

14.Main Dining Room Food will still be similiar themes.

15.The Majority of Crew will not be British.

16.The Majority of the crew speaks at least 2 languages.

17.The Pools will be heated.

18.Southampton is still the Dock that Independence will sail from.

19.The majority of cruisers will be British.

20.The Language on board will mostly be English.

21.SO WHATS THE PROBLEM?

22.By the way I should point out to you, that I have read from Andrew cc that there is a rumour going around that the main bedding cover in each Stateroom will be the Union Jack:D I CANT POSSIBLY COMMENT ON THIS RUMOUR.

 

so thats about it, facts not fiction, My family and I are going to have a great time on board, as I hope all of you will, when you sail on the Independence this year from Southampton.

 

 

Many thanks for the clarification - I hope this alleviates some of the worries for those folks who have 'immersion paranoia' :D

 

Looking forward to snuggling down in my Union Jack bedcovers :rolleyes: :p

[Cruise Junky]

Many people are acting as though only the cruises from the UK will be "immersion" cruises. We are on a cruise from Shanghai to Singapore. For the cruise before ours, the itinerary is marked to say:

 

"Please note: this product has been sold almost exclusively to guests from Asia; therefore the services and product have been tailored to their cultural preferences in food and beverage, entertainment and retail. While English language assistance will be provided, the local language will be the primary language spoken onboard. Please check with your local consulate or embassy regarding visa requirements."

 

 

Lisiamc:

 

Exactly where and when did you see the information you state above? :confused:

 

Yesterday I was in contact with Keith Jorgensen, Customer Business Development Manager for Strategic Accounts from RCCL and in reference to the SE Asian cruise on the Legend; Singapore to Shanghai 02/28/09 he wrote the following and I quote:

 

"This is NOT an Asian Emersion cruise. What we mean by short is 3 to 7 nts. Because these are shorter sailings the guest counts typically come from the local area. These longer sailings primarily make up guests from the UK and US. I want to apologize for the mis information but please know that this is NOT one of these sailings. I have spoken with our Revenue Mgmt dept that manages these sailings as well as the upper mgmt for our call centers to please communicate what these sailings are."

 

So I would like to know where you got that information...I just logged onto RCCL/RCI website and there is no information on the 14 nt SE Asian cruise being immersion.

 

As to the word "immersion" The term was in fact first used not by this board, but by the CSRs of RCCL/RCI when they informed us, the customer, through phone calls and by calling our TAs that our cruises would be immersion...

 

 

Please note that this information is only based on the SE Asian cruises of 14 nights as I have no specific information about the European cruises...

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=779163&page=4

 

Ms. Underwood got a phone call from RCI. She's on the 14 day not a short cruise. So sadly the missinformation is coming from RCI.

[CruzinCruzan]

Cruise Junky:

 

Uh-Huh...Ms Understood & her DH are traveling with me and my DH and we have the same TA...

 

For one week now I have been trying to get to the bottom of this and finally I have...

 

Only the 3 and 4 day Asian cruises will be immersion, the longer ones will not, as in 14 day SE Asian out of Singapore to Shanghai or Shanghai to Songapore on the Legend...

 

This comes from Mr. Keth Jorgensen Customer Business Development Manager for Strategic Accounts....

 

PLUS...DH just called CS for RCCL/RCI and we were told, once again, that only the 3 and 4 Day Asian Cruises will be immersion, NOT the 14 day SE Asian Cruises...in addition there is nothing on the website to say they are immersion...

 

Again...this information in only for the Asian Cruises as I have no specific information about the European or Caribbean or Latin American cruises...

[Mines]

I have been on an immersion cruise - on Splendour of the Seas from Brazil to Argentina and Uruaguay.

 

Althought thre were 90% Brazilians on board, I did not find too many differences from usual cruises and I thought that RCL did very well to try to please everyone. On a Costa immersion cruise a few years ago there was almost no effort made to accommodate English speaking guests. I was approached by the Amercian guest-relations person on the last evening!

 

On our South American cruise on Splendour, except in one case, the changes that were made were only to add things, not take any away. For example, they added local entertainers, they added announcements in Portuguese, they added local food (in addition to the normal fare). Nothing at all to worry about.

 

The only change that did affect us was the change in dining times to 8:00 and 10:00. Whereas we normally pick 2nd seating, this time we switched to 1st. For us, this was not a big deal and we were pleased to have the ship to ourselves when the Brazilians were sleeping all morning.

 

For those posters that are worried about immersion cruises, I would say "don't be worried about the efforts of RCL". They are only trying to do their best to please all. If you have a problem with the cultural differences of fellow passengers, however, you may need to think twice, because you will be in a minority and if you feel uncomfortable with that feeling, this type of cruise may not be for you.

[sailor moon]

Seems to me that RCCL should explain on their main website page which cruises are affected and what exactly it all means. They have placed "updates" on their website to explain changes to cruises (for example when we have hurricane schedule changes to ports). Why stress out customers when RCCL has the ability to offer the information/explanation? RCCL doesn't need to write Cruise Critic, but needs to put the information CLEARLY on their website where it can be easily seen.

[CruzinCruzan]

Hey Cruise Chick...

 

Sorry if I offended you!

 

I was just trying to address lisiamc's concern about her/his Asian Cruise Shanghai to Singapore...

 

The information I posted was directly from RCCL/RCI...

 

BTW Immersion cruises are not bogus...they actually exist...also as per RCCL/RCI!

 

Just not at present for the RCI 14 night cruise SE Asian cruise market!

 

Don't worry lisiamc, you're not on an immersion cruise....

[Andrew9999]

By the way I should point out to you, that I have read from Andrew cc that there is a rumour going around that the main bedding cover in each Stateroom will be the Union Jack:D I CANT POSSIBLY COMMENT ON THIS RUMOUR.

 

Are you trying to get me into trouble? :rolleyes: :D

 

Actually, I have now heard that, following a meeting of the RCCL Board in the US, stars and stripes pyjamas will be provided to all guests.

 

At a hastily-convened press conference, Richard Fain (CEO of RCCL) said "We hope this will go some way to make up for upsetting our US guests who may encounter English bacon and sausages at breakfast."

[lisiamc]

I was just trying to address lisiamc's concern about her/his Asian Cruise Shanghai to Singapore...

 

The information I posted was directly from RCCL/RCI...

 

BTW Immersion cruises are not bogus...they actually exist...also as per RCCL/RCI!

 

Just not at present for the RCI 14 night cruise SE Asian cruise market!

 

Don't worry lisiamc, you're not on an immersion cruise....

 

Hi CruzinCruzan,

 

That's good to know! We're sailing on April 24th. The cruise before ours (April 19) is one of the short ones, and had the message I quoted beside the map on the itinerary page. Ours doesn't have it. I was hoping that it won't change later on. You've reassured me!:)

 

Lisa

[I LOVE SUITES]

Are you trying to get me into trouble? :rolleyes: :D

 

Actually, I have now heard that, following a meeting of the RCCL Board in the US, stars and stripes pyjamas will be provided to all guests.

 

At a hastily-convened press conference, Richard Fain (CEO of RCCL) said "We hope this will go some way to make up for upsetting our US guests who may encounter English bacon and sausages at breakfast."

 

Would that be in the American Clothes sizes or the European Clothes sizes or the british Clothes sizes, :D

[Mines]

Hi CruzinCruzan,

 

That's good to know! We're sailing on April 24th. The cruise before ours (April 19) is one of the short ones, and had the message I quoted beside the map on the itinerary page. Ours doesn't have it. I was hoping that it won't change later on. You've reassured me!:)

 

Lisa

 

I guess this will depend on the passenger mix. If 80% of the passengers are from Japan, they would have a case for making it a Japanese emmersion. The liklihood is that this cruise will be so popular internationally that no one country will dominate.

[CanTex]

You mean, their paying customers, the ones without whom there would BE no RCI or stockholders? The people who paid for one product and are now being told the product has changed materially and they're just going to have to like it?

 

Let's say you've decided to renovate your house and redo all the floors in hardwood. You contracted with the company, chose the product, paid a deposit and then the week before installation, the company called and said, "We've decided hardwoods aren't profitable for us right now, so we've switched over to wood-laminate floors. We'll be installing a wood-laminate throughout your house next week, but wanted to let you know.

 

"What kind of wood-laminate floors? Who's the manufacturer? What's the color and will it match our previous order in quality and type?" You ask

 

"Well, we're not really sure, but it will surely be a nice brand and a very pretty color and many of our other customers love this stuff!! it'll be great. Just different! We'll also be expecting your final payment at that time. Kthxbye."

 

I mean, it's a business decision on their part, right? So it's all good?

 

Look, I'm not saying immersion cruises will be a bad thing uniformly. the issue here is the change from what was purchased--at a considerable expense--compared to what will be delivered. And NOT everyone will like it. I *do* think people have a right to be a bit nonplussed by the bait and switch here. They ABSOLUTELY have a right to question "a business decision" that changes the product they've already paid money for, prior to getting.

What a great analogy!

[FitzLA]

Mark my words, this will turn out to be a crisis for RCCL. I was a huge fan of this cruise line! I retired early, Alice and I took 2 cruises last year and planed to do 2 this year and in the years to come do at least 3 cruises or more per yr. Should our June, immersion cruise not be to our liking, I.E.

 

1) English not spoken by ship staff

2) Excursions in a forging laungage

3) Food totally forging

3) Smoking area expanded

4) Entertainment in forging language

5) Euros as on board currency

7) Meal times drastically different

Then we will find other cruising vendors to give our money too!!

 

Forging?

[MakinGold]

What a great analogy!

 

I guess I'm outvoted, but I still see it as a very poor analogy, because RCI does not appear to have changed anything that was explicitly agreed upon. There is no specific menu or specific entertainment agreed upon, when you book a cruise, so this change doesn't really compare well to a case where you specifically agree on hardwood floors and they change it to laminate . . .

[emdia43]

Is that based on some actual experience? If we're talking about UK, my understanding is that they have some pretty strict restrictions about smoking in public areas in recent years. Maybe the cultural difference isn't as big as you think.

Yes, afraid so- we just spent 9 nights on Navigator of the Seas from Barcelona, May 10- 19th - smoking was allowed in 10 of the bars which meant that we could not use them- I can list them for you if you wish as I am still looking at the Compass in shock that they allowed this- and that had a huge impact on our cruise.

We like to go to the Pub on the Promenade and listen to the guitar player- full of smokers. The smoke also permeated the Promenade so you couldn't escape it.

Boleros lounge is also a favorite- full of smokers and for some reason late in the evening full of families with young kids, some in strollers - go figure..

The Karaoke in the Cosmopolitan Club was out of bounds for the same reason- the official line there was that smoking was allowed on the "left side of the room" only- can you picture this?

There was no "tightening up" of any smoking policy on this ship, we found their policy to be permissive and dangerous- I watched MANY cigarette ends being tossed over the side when finished with.

The only places we could go were the theatres,Vintages wine bar, the Schooner bar and the Champagen bar.

Never again....

I am all for multi-cultural experiences, that is part of the appeal of travel, but not at the expense of my comfort and safety.