regnig Posted October 31, 2004 #1 Share Posted October 31, 2004 There is another thread today about auto-tipping (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=93356) and it started me thinking again about the auto-tip and tipping in general and I’d like to address it in a manner that I’ve not read here on the boards yet. To do so will take one assumption on my part ( :eek: ) and that is that the majority of Princess cruisers are well meaning respectable people who do not always expect something for nothing. So here goes … WAITER / ASSISTANT WAITER If one were to dine out at a decent but not upscale restaurant (I’ve used an Outback menu for my prices) their bill might be as follows: Appetizer of shrimp - 7.29 Cup of soup - 2.69 7oz Tenderloin - 16.99 Cheese Cake - 3.99 For a total of $30.96 Now if the service was adequate a 10% tip would come to $3.10, and if the service was excellent a 20% tip would be $6.20. In a really upscale restaurant the meal total would probably be twice that – you can figure the tip. Now keep in mind this is for just one meal, dinner. On average breakfast out (no not McDonalds) will probably average $8.00 and lunch $12. So for a daily total we have a total of $50.96 and 10% of that would be $5.10 a day and at 20% it would be $6.20. Now these are average prices for average restaurants where if you want seconds of anything (or in the case of Lobster, 3rds and 4ths) you will have to pay for it. Now consider the waiters and assistant waiters on the ships. The guys and gals work all three meals and also have to rotate through the Horizon Court. Their work day is usually 12 hours long with short breaks between meals. The ‘suggested’ tip of $3.50 for the waiter and 3.00 for the assistant waiter is CHEAP and a bargain by today’s standards. And, were it not for auto-tipping Princess would not be able to offer PC dining as too many people would stiff all the wait staff and Princess would never be able to staff the PC dining venues. ROOM STEWARD These guys/gals change, make and then turn down your bed on a daily basis. They clean your cabin and bathroom twice a day. They clean your balcony once a day. They scrub your toilet and replace all the used towels twice a day. They keep your ice bucket full, stock requested fruit, replenish bathing supplies and provide you with your daily patter. Hey they even leave you a piece of candy after you’ve eaten that $60 dollar meal. Their work day is usually at least 10 hours long and full of nasty back breaking duties. I sure wouldn’t scrub your toilet two times a day for $3.50, but these people do and usually with a smile. On average they spend 45 minutes a day tending to each cabin and at $3.50 a day that is way below any minimum wage. And yes, that tip is in addition to their Princess wages, but since that is way below minimum too it hardly counts. The auto tip of $10 a day is not near enough to compensate these people. I won’t start a war about how much extra one might (should) give these people I would just plead that folks keep auto tip in place. Anything you give them over that they do get to keep once it has been verified that you left auto-tip in place. And Melody (from above post) I must disagree with your “Do you really believe that they hand over the extra $30 over the base $70. I do not believe these people are so dumb that they don't pocket the additional tip.” I know they hand it over. If they are caught holding it back it means they lose their job; a job you and I are fortunate enough we don’t have to do, but one that provides their families with a little better standard of life. Prior to instituting auto-tip, 30% of cruisers left the ship without tipping either their restaurant staff or their room steward. Although auto-tipping has not eliminated this entirely since it can be revoked, it at least spreads the needed additional income out over the entire ship. I truly believe if someone on board a cruise ship can not afford the price of auto-tip then they probably need to consider if they can afford to cruise at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongerob Posted October 31, 2004 #2 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Interesting. Here's another take. Some people argue that tipping should not be necessary because it allows cruise lines to get away with paying absurdly low wages which must then be supplemented by the passengers. They might further argue that the only "fair" thing to do would be to guarantee each and every crew member a salary that is commensurate with their on-duty time and responsibilities. Of course, all costs are always passed on the final purchaser of the product (that's us). Let's consider the average employee then, working 12 hours per day 7 days per week. Assuming a base hourly wage of $5.25 (minimum wage or thereabouts) that would be 40 hours of straight time and 44 hours overtime, or $556.50 per week. Since everyone on board theoretically receives the same service, that cost would be split equally among everyone on board. There are no "classes" of service offered, afterall. The Grand Princess, for example, has a passenger::crew ratio of 2.2::1. So, each cruise fare would have to increase approximately $250 to meet these conditions, assuming a 7-day cruise. That might increase the cost of an inside cabin by upwards of 50%, while increasing the cost of a suite by around 10%. If you ask me, tipping is a bargain compared to the alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regnig Posted October 31, 2004 Author #3 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Rob - hear hear!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjboothman Posted October 31, 2004 #4 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Larsen, I have a question and a comment; I cannot disagree with anything you said except that most Princess cruisers are well meaning respectable people who do not always expect something for nothing. While I might agree with you that most Cruise Critic Princess cruisers fit this description, I'm pretty sure I've come across enough "low-life" passengers who DO expect something for nothing. I think autotipping is an excellent process because it makes everyone responsible. We all know that we add $10/pp/day to our cruise bill - it's just part of what is expected. Your article was right on target. My question is: if you have a favorite bartender and you tip him/her cash with each drink, or a $20 bill at the end of the cruise, can they keep that or must it be pooled? I guess it doesn't matter because we always pay our autotipping, but I just wondered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob & Barb Posted October 31, 2004 #5 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Yes, bjboothman, -- this is apparently true. I have asked bartenders about this and they tell me that (if they don't already know your cabin number from having purchased a drink), they have to ask this question and then check it against the auto tip list before they can pocket the extra tip. If you have not removed your auto-tip, they can then pocket the tip. Otherwise they have to turn it in. And they are VERY careful about this because they don't want to lose their job. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cozzello Posted October 31, 2004 #6 Share Posted October 31, 2004 I Am Sorry I Guess I Never Gave The Issue Of Extra Tipping Much Thought. I Just Assumed That When I Gave My Steward And Waiters Extra They Themselves Kept It. Have I Misunderstood This And What Should I Being Doing Differently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regnig Posted October 31, 2004 Author #7 Share Posted October 31, 2004 I Am Sorry I Guess I Never Gave The Issue Of Extra Tipping Much Thought. I Just Assumed That When I Gave My Steward And Waiters Extra They Themselves Kept It. Have I Misunderstood This And What Should I Being Doing Differently? Cozzello you only need to do two things to assure they get to keep the extra you are giving. First leave auto-tip in place and second make certain that anyone you give extra to has your cabin number. The envelopes at the pursers desk make the second part easy. Glad to hear that others think 'extra' tips are the way to go! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cactusrose Posted October 31, 2004 #8 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Larsen and Spongerob. . .I couldn't have said it better. If folks haven't read the article on Cruise Critic about tipping, please take a minute to read it. http://www.cruisecritic.com/interests/intarticle.cfm?ID=56 It's enlightening. Thank you both for your contribution to this very important topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruise38 Posted October 31, 2004 #9 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Larsen and Spongerob - Thank you for your take on auto tipping. These crew members both front line and behind the scenes work their you know what's off and deserve every dollar they get. I for one have never experienced other than excellent service on Princess and always tip accordingly. Barbara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjones Posted October 31, 2004 #10 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Larsen - I think your outline of land meals and tipping, plus the list of stewards' duties is fabulous. I wish your thread could stay at the top of the board for a very long time so more people will read it and take heed. I always auto- and extra tip, but many people do not. Maybe they will now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrisBob Posted October 31, 2004 #11 Share Posted October 31, 2004 I agree completely. The waiters and assistant waiters and room stewards are hard working and deserve all of our tips. My objection to the auto-tip is that they aren't the only ones who share in these tips. There is the Maitre D' and the Head Waiters who also receive a share. And they are very well paid. I just returned from a 10 day cruise on the Dawn (which was wonderful) with Anytime Dining (which we really like) and only once in 10 days did a Head Waiter come to our table to see if everything was OK. (And that was only because the Waiter called him over). :) It is important that we show our appreciation to all the hard workers, and it is convenient to have the Auto-Tip, but I would like to have a say in who is tipped on my behalf. Thanks for all the good info that comes out of this board. Iris ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurieb Posted October 31, 2004 #12 Share Posted October 31, 2004 I hope that everyone really pats attention to this thread. It is a very good comparison of land v sea. It never fails to amaze me how some people justify not tipping( not only on cruises but any time they are given good service). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruisin'40 Posted November 1, 2004 #13 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Would it be inappropriate to tip throughout the week to the drink servers and bus people? It seems often I am graced with excellence in service or employees who go above and beyond, and I either can't find them or forget by weeks end. I often thought maybe I should keep a few dollars on me just in case. Another tipping quandry I always have is how much and to whom to tip for room service, usually the girls order cookies or a snack late afternoon and we usually just give a couple dollars to the person delivering it, but should we be leaving it on the tray instead??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffejo Posted November 1, 2004 #14 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Sorry about the double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffejo Posted November 1, 2004 #15 Share Posted November 1, 2004 I would make the following change to auto tipping. Change it to a service charge that cannot be altered (ie NCL) and suggest that for exceptional servce an additional gratuity would be appropriate. All those people who say auto tipping is decreasing the amount of money that waiters, assist. waiters, and cabin stewards are receiving are out in la la land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruzindave Posted November 1, 2004 #16 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Hi, I was on the 10/9 CP sailing and I did not think the service was that great. Is this what you get with auto-tipping? I'm not saying the service was bad, it just OK. Most of the passengers I spoke with agreed. My family and I were with a group of nearly 200 from central Florida. The common theme after the cruise was "We had fun but the service was average".This was our 8th cruise (first on Princess) and I just don't know what all the fuss is! Average food-OK service,will someone PLLEEEASE clue me in on why Princess is better than CCL or RCCL!!!! THANK YOU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanetMarie Posted November 1, 2004 #17 Share Posted November 1, 2004 I have a question re: auto tipping. If I have the tips removed from the pursur's office, can I hand each of our respective servers, cabin steward, etc. envelopes? Or is this passe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catmand Posted November 1, 2004 #18 Share Posted November 1, 2004 JanetMarie....................as has been mentioned above: yes, you can go to the purser ask to have the tips removed from auto-charge and pass out envelopes just like in the "old days" Be sure to read larsens poststhey explain it very well. I think the auto tip works, we have up to this point always tipped our room stew extra $$. I just like the idea that a pax would really have to waork to stiff anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GloriaF Posted November 1, 2004 #19 Share Posted November 1, 2004 First of all, I totally agree with the views above by Larsen & Spongerob and some of the others. I think jeffejo's thoughts about making the autotip mandatory is interesting, and may be the way to go. We always auto-tip and give extra in envelopes toward the end of the cruise. JanetMarie, the envelopes are available at the purser's desk and it is not passe', but unless you leave the auto-tip in place, the tips in the envelopes must be pooled. Please forgive me ~ this is just a little nit-picky thing, but I must point out, Larsen, that your math is incorrect in part of your first post: "$50.96 and 10% of that would be $5.10 a day and at 20% it would be $6.20." 20% is $10.20. It doesn't change the meaning of the post and the service onboard is still a bargain and I still agree with everything you said. I just had to make the correction for accuracy's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongerob Posted November 1, 2004 #20 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Gloria - a mandatory service charge is no different than adding the cost into the fare, except that it becomes a nickle-and-dime charge in some peoples' eyes if it is left separate and added after the fact. Personally, I'd rather see it built into the fare and a "Tip For Exceptional Service Only" policy established. I think service would improve dramatically, since anyone receiving tips would be assured of keeping them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regnig Posted November 1, 2004 Author #21 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Please forgive me ~ this is just a little nit-picky thing, but I must point out, Larsen, that your math is incorrect in part of your first post: "$50.96 and 10% of that would be $5.10 a day and at 20% it would be $6.20." 20% is $10.20. It doesn't change the meaning of the post and the service onboard is still a bargain and I still agree with everything you said. I just had to make the correction for accuracy's sake. Gloria no forgiveness necessary. :eek: Trust me, I really do know how to figure 20% (I'm usually a 20% tipper on land) - just didn't re-read my post well enough. From reading a couple of the responses it does seem people are still a bit confused. To restate - If you remove auto-tip anything you had someone WILL be pooled, they can not keep it. Therefore if you want to provide an extra reward to someone, leave auto-tip in place and then hand out extra. Additionally Princess keeps statistics on cabins that have removed auto-tip. They consider it a negative statement on room steward service. So, if you remove it and they hand them a generous amount, they are still viewed as sub-standard by Princess. And folks, please don't forget those 'You Made A Difference' cards. They really do have a positive impact on those hard working people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolmama_1 Posted November 1, 2004 #22 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Larsen, Very well said. We were on our first cruise in July and found the auto tipping convenient and a bargain vs. a land based vacation. We also went and got envelopes for our steward and a favorite waitstaff that we found by Wednesday and requested for the rest of the cruise. We also filled out the "You make a difference " cards for our steward and waitstaff. My husband and I have both been in the service industry and truly understand how tipped employees have to work to earn a decent living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regnig Posted November 1, 2004 Author #23 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Larsen,My husband and I have both been in the service industry and truly understand how tipped employees have to work to earn a decent living. Judy I really think that is a crucial key to understanding the issue. Unless one has worked a 'service job' understanding the needs and demands of the general public for little to no pay just isn't something that most folks have experienced. Not only did I experience it working for the airlines (and yes I was paid pretty well) but all my kids have helped work their way through college by waiting tables and the stories they tell would make your hair stand on end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolmama_1 Posted November 1, 2004 #24 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Larsen, I know exactly what you mean. My husband is a part time Methodist minister but also is the General Manager of a fine dining restaurant. It is amazing what people will do and expect from you. It seems sometimes that it is a game to see how much you can pick apart just to justify to yourself a reason not to tip. We appreciate good service not only by tipping, but by saying a kind word to the service person and his supervisor. Sometimes, that is more important than the money. Judy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycruise Posted November 1, 2004 #25 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Personally, I'd rather see it built into the fare and a "Tip For Exceptional Service Only" policy established. I think service would improve dramatically, since anyone receiving tips would be assured of keeping them. I think if the tip is built into the fare, after a year or two, that will be forgotten and you will see full tipping in addition to the increased fare. I believe the tip should always be kept separate, and I agree it should mandatory, just so everyone remembers the tips have already been paid. That way you won't feel awkward about giving a small additional tip for those who warranted something extra, as opposed to re-tipping everyone again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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