Would You Take A Cruise in Pirate Attack Areas ??

[celle]

I can get into statistics which clearly point that in areas where concealed weapon permits are more prevalent crime per capita is significantly lower than in areas where guns are frowned upon. I can also point out that most states have laws against carrying firearms, even with permits, into drinking establishments. In the eight years I have been in my career I have come across many people with conceal carry permits and they are the most responsible citizens of any around. Police officers in major cities have been protecting themselves with pistols against AK47s for a long time and are on the winning end of almost all of those encounters.

 

And you are correct the US Constitution does not apply to international waters but as far as I know there is no international law against carrying a concealed weapon or against openly carrying weapons in international waters. All this is moot point because the cruise ships do not allow weapons onboard which was pretty much the point I was making. I will not even go into the areas because I cannot carry a weapon to protect myself and I believe I am better able to protect myself against pirates than some rent-a-cops with fire hoses and a sound weapon which can easily be defeated by wearing ear protection.

 

On an interesting note, the US Treasury Department has tracked the money to Dubai and the money men take a huge cut before disseminating the funds to the pirates. I wonder if that will change now that a Saudi oil tanker or are the Saudis happy the tanker was hijacked so they can raise the price of oil? I guess if more oil tankers get hijacked we will find out.

 

I could go on and on about it but I am not here to get into a political debate. My idea of a vacation has nothing remotely to do with traveling in a lawless area with the threat hijackings and kidnappings. I will be happy to travel the safe waters of the Atlantic, the Caribbean, and the Pacific and avoid hostile areas. I choose not to risk being a contributor to the pirates salary. Good luck if you choose to travel those waters and I will pray for safe passage for all who travel through that "media hyped" area. My cruising is about fun in the sun and my only concerns are trying not to eat too much. :cool: :D

 

We can agree to differ on many points. You are obviously one of the responsible people trained to carry a weapon and use it with due care.

 

I come from a country where our police are not armed (except in special circumstances) and do not need to be armed. Obviously, our perspectives differ. I would prefer a trained, armed police officer over Joe-Citizen-with-a-gun any day.

 

Where we can both agree is that cruise lines will not allow passengers to carry weapons. I am happy with that.

 

Our paths are not likely to cross - and that's a shame, because I would have enjoyed a discussion with you.

 

Enjoy your cruises.

[zorrosuncle]

I want very much to take a cruise that would go into the areas where there has been pirate activity. My husband says absolutely not, but I think it would be OK. But now that he read an Oceania ship was almost attacked by pirates this past weekend, DH is even more opposed.

 

Would you consider taking a cruise in that area?

Greetings -- Speed and technology now have becomne an important criteria. If a ship can provide that, I would be willing to take it.

\

ZU

[happy cruzer]

This is well off topic

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=881816

 

But there appears to be problems in Bangkok that will take that area off some people's potential area to visit.

 

Very sad.

[agabbymama]

No, I would not consider a cruise/vacation to anyplace that was having unrest of any type.

 

My very first trip to Great Britain in 1987, my TA and the State Department warned that Ireland could be a problem, so I shortened my trip to only include England/Wales/Scotland. Upon boarding the coach, there was a couple that had just finished a tour in Ireland, and she related a story that while they were not actually shot at on the coach, the police did stop them from proceeding because of shooting/bombs up ahead. They were held up for two days and she feared they would miss the connection to the England portion of the tour, but just made it. I was glad I hadn't gone to Ireland as I had planned.

 

I've wanted to see Israel for years, but the unrest in that part of the World has caused me to forego seeing that country. Nor would I travel to Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, India or Afghanistan, Thailand or any number of other places in the World, that we know is undergoing problems. I contemplated not leaving the ship in Kusadasi Turkey, on our recent Med cruise, but finally did do a ship's tour.

 

As a matter of fact, we are thinking we will stay within the US territory for our future vacation plans. It has become such a pain to fly and the low dollar value doesn't help in the expense of the trips either. We take vacations to enjoy ourselves, not become targets. While anything can happen anywhere, why ask for problems by going to known hot spots.

[J&K08]

We can agree to differ on many points. You are obviously one of the responsible people trained to carry a weapon and use it with due care.

 

I come from a country where our police are not armed (except in special circumstances) and do not need to be armed. Obviously, our perspectives differ. I would prefer a trained, armed police officer over Joe-Citizen-with-a-gun any day.

 

Where we can both agree is that cruise lines will not allow passengers to carry weapons. I am happy with that.

 

Our paths are not likely to cross - and that's a shame, because I would have enjoyed a discussion with you.

 

Enjoy your cruises.

 

I can always agree to disagree and I always enjoy a lively debate. I do wish you well on your travels and pray for everyone's safety when traveling through hostile waters. We all have embarked on wonderful adventures complete with good food, good drinks, good fun, and good people (crew and passengers).

[Cuizer2]

Plus, I will say the average armed robber in a major city is definitely more educated than your average Somali pirate.

What is the point? Do you really care if the person pointing a gun at you is a high school drop out or a PhD? :confused:

 

If I wanted to sail through the Suez Canal, then I would go. Otherwise I see no reason to go.

[Alamogirl]

One word WHY:confused:

[Cuizer2]

One word WHY:confused:

Two words - why not? :confused:

[J&K08]

If the rewards outweigh the risks for you then by all means take the cruise. If the risks outweigh the rewards then don't take the cruise.

[xpcdoojk]

I can get into statistics which clearly point that in areas where concealed weapon permits are more prevalent crime per capita is significantly lower than in areas where guns are frowned upon. I can also point out that most states have laws against carrying firearms, even with permits, into drinking establishments. In the eight years I have been in my career I have come across many people with conceal carry permits and they are the most responsible citizens of any around. Police officers in major cities have been protecting themselves with pistols against AK47s for a long time and are on the winning end of almost all of those encounters.

 

And you are correct the US Constitution does not apply to international waters but as far as I know there is no international law against carrying a concealed weapon or against openly carrying weapons in international waters. All this is moot point because the cruise ships do not allow weapons onboard which was pretty much the point I was making. I will not even go into the areas because I cannot carry a weapon to protect myself and I believe I am better able to protect myself against pirates than some rent-a-cops with fire hoses and a sound weapon which can easily be defeated by wearing ear protection.

 

On an interesting note, the US Treasury Department has tracked the money to Dubai and the money men take a huge cut before disseminating the funds to the pirates. I wonder if that will change now that a Saudi oil tanker or are the Saudis happy the tanker was hijacked so they can raise the price of oil? I guess if more oil tankers get hijacked we will find out.

 

I could go on and on about it but I am not here to get into a political debate. My idea of a vacation has nothing remotely to do with traveling in a lawless area with the threat hijackings and kidnappings. I will be happy to travel the safe waters of the Atlantic, the Caribbean, and the Pacific and avoid hostile areas. I choose not to risk being a contributor to the pirates salary. Good luck if you choose to travel those waters and I will pray for safe passage for all who travel through that "media hyped" area. My cruising is about fun in the sun and my only concerns are trying not to eat too much. :cool: :D

 

I Mumbai the police are not really trained to use their guns and are only issued so many bullets a year. One of the reasons the terrorists had such a high body count was that the police were not able to show up with equal force of weapons for hours.

 

Article from the Internation Herald Tribune...

 

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/12/04/asia/04lapses.php

 

I think one of the countries that is trying to hinder Somali pirates is India. Somethings are so tragically funny, you almost wonder if Shakespear is writing the script.

 

http://www.andhranews.net/India/2008/October/8-Navy-readySomalian-68117.asp

 

Good luck with that unarmed police thing when the bad guys show up in your streets. :D (not directed to the quote person)

 

Now to get to the topic would I travel to this area on a cruise ship. Probably, I really really hate allowing 8th century thugs to keep me from visiting where I want to visit. Anymore than street thugs keeping me from visiting New York, Los Angelas, Paris, London, Rio de Janiero, Buenos Aires or other places I have visited. However, it does seem that without an effective response to the pirates that eventually they may do an even more dangerous attack on a cruise ship. This seems to be an obvious tragedy in the making. Fortunately, this area is not that high on my list of must sees and the danger does in fact keep it further down the list.

 

jc

[Mark]

I know what you mean...I saw photos of Indian Police Officers during the hotel incident in Bombay...some of those officers were armed with WWII era British manufactured Enfield bolt action singe shot rifles...good luck with thos Enfield's against the AK47s that the terrorists were using...those British Enfiled bolt action rifles were obsolete 65 years ago...I can't believe they are using those antiques!

[Sea Hag]

Call me a chicken if you wish, but I sure wouldn't!

[xpcdoojk]

I know what you mean...I saw photos of Indian Police Officers during the hotel incident in Bombay...some of those officers were armed with WWII era British manufactured Enfield bolt action singe shot rifles...good luck with thos Enfield's against the AK47s that the terrorists were using...those British Enfiled bolt action rifles were obsolete 65 years ago...I can't believe they are using those antiques!

 

Yeah, some of those heroes were killed valiantly fighting against the terrorists with automatics with single shot rifles. Gotta admire their courage and willingness to sacrifice to try to save others when they had to know that they were doomed.

 

Too many people think we live in a civilized world, and they also tend to think that those who realize that there are evil dangerous people are simply dumb for wanting to be able to defend themselves against the evil people.

 

jc

[Terpnut]

Dear J&K08,

I am sorry if you felt that I was saying “people are ridiculous because they don’t feel the rewards outweigh the risks is pretty insulting” because that was not my aim. What I am saying that there is often a large amount of paranoia after incidents have been reported and that, as history will bear out, the main fears were groundless. If you kowtow to the machinations of the lawless then you only promote their cause and I believe, as someone else pointed out, that to change your ways is to submit to their lawlessness. I for one will never do that because I feel that by doing it I am letting the society in which we live down. I am not saying that you must all do as I do I am purely promoting the principles by which I live and I do not denigrate anyone who wants to think or act differently. …..Neil

FWIW, I understand and agree with you. :)

 

If the rewards outweigh the risks for you then by all means take the cruise. If the risks outweigh the rewards then don't take the cruise.

I think that the risk here is more perceived than real. Most of us don't fully realize (or have just grown to accept) the risks many take almost every day: smoking, not wearing seat belts, driving a car on a freeway, crossing a street in downtown NY, eating too much fat and sugar.... All of these things are more likely to kill us than sailing around the Horn of Africa. Over 40,000 Americans were killed on our roads last year (or about 1.5 deaths per 100 million miles driven) but that doesn't stop anyone from driving. The odds of injury or death due to piracy on the high seas is probably far far lower.

[J&K08]

You are correct you are more likely die doing other things. Mainly because I don't believe the pirates have killed anyone. In fact the only person, I believe, has died on a ship which was hijacked was the captain of the Ukrainian ship carrying the Russian tanks. He apparently died of a heart attack.

 

I guess because the pirates have not killed anyone is the reason why there is no political will to end the problem. That and the photos of the 10-14 year old pirates carrying AK47s which are bigger than they are is the reason why there is no political will to end the piracy. I am sure the many adult pirates do have some children helping them commit these acts of piracy but hasn't this gotten a bit ridiculous? A band of pirates in barely seaworthy boats are hijacking ships, and demanding millions in ransom as well as usually collecting the ransom, are holding the most powerful nations in the world at bay. It truly says quite a bit about how ridiculous the world has become. Even the Russians who historically are not to merciful to people who cross them don't have the political will to end the piracy.

 

I have a few ideas on how to end the issue but of course I am not in charge. Isn't politics something? :rolleyes: All the nations of the world should be embarrassed about it.

[Terpnut]

You are correct you are more likely die doing other things. Mainly because I don't believe the pirates have killed anyone. In fact the only person, I believe, has died on a ship which was hijacked was the captain of the Ukrainian ship carrying the Russian tanks. He apparently died of a heart attack.

 

I guess because the pirates have not killed anyone is the reason why there is no political will to end the problem. That and the photos of the 10-14 year old pirates carrying AK47s which are bigger than they are is the reason why there is no political will to end the piracy. I am sure the many adult pirates do have some children helping them commit these acts of piracy but hasn't this gotten a bit ridiculous? A band of pirates in barely seaworthy boats are hijacking ships, and demanding millions in ransom as well as usually collecting the ransom, are holding the most powerful nations in the world at bay. It truly says quite a bit about how ridiculous the world has become. Even the Russians who historically are not to merciful to people who cross them don't have the political will to end the piracy.

 

I have a few ideas on how to end the issue but of course I am not in charge. Isn't politics something? :rolleyes: All the nations of the world should be embarrassed about it.

I mostly agree with you but I don't think that there is so much a lack of political will as much as this is a truly difficult problem to solve. And for those who might advocate more direct and forceful military action, just remember what happened the last time U.S. forces went into Somalia.

[J&K08]

Yes I cannot forget a certain President's certain Secretary of Defense would not let them use armored vehicles because they were too intimidating. Well known through the Pentagon circles and not very well known to the civilian world. Not to mention cockamamie rules of engagement. Problem would be easy to solve except in today's war zones the soldiers need lawyers to advise them. To quote Kelsey Grammer as General George S. Patton in An American Carol, "If they are shooting at you - they're guilty!" :D :cool:

[xpcdoojk]

Yes I cannot forget a certain President's certain Secretary of Defense would not let them use armored vehicles because they were too intimidating. Well known through the Pentagon circles and not very well known to the civilian world. Not to mention cockamamie rules of engagement. Problem would be easy to solve except in today's war zones the soldiers need lawyers to advise them. To quote Kelsey Grammer as General George S. Patton in An American Carol, "If they are shooting at you - they're guilty!" :D :cool:

 

Amen General!

 

jc:D

[Moeve]

German lines have been instructed to contact the german navy to arrange a guarded convoy...... That should hopefully deterr a few pirates when they see the big guns.

[BCHappyGal]

Personally I would avoid that area at the moment as why "Ask for Trouble" when there are lots of places in the world I have not had time to see yet.

 

Yes someday well into the future I hope to enjoy a World Cruise and at that point in time I will look both at the itinerary and the situation and make my decision. However; cruise lines are very aware of the concerns of the average traveller and also the safety issues so I am sure the cruise lines are looking at this area with care when planning future itineraries...Remember itineraries are planned and laid out many months (years) in advance....

 

Having said all of the above my answer in a nut shell at this point in time is "NO".

[Lynnees]

As soon as RCL announced the Brilliance - Dubai repositioning to Spaind through Suez Canal I booked us. It's something we've wanted to do for ages. We have also booked the previous week Dubai/Dubai. This will be our first back to back. (April 2010). At this point, we are going along with friends.

 

I guess we will watch and see what the next year and half will bring but I have no intentions of cancelling in the near future.

[Zimomiller]

I think the cruise lines are missing a major revenue enhancement opportunity.

 

Can you imagine how much people would pay to be able to man actual machine gun turrets as an onboard activity? The promise of being able to blast away at these lowlkife suckers as they approach the ship would be hard to pass up.

 

To heck with shooting clay targets off the fantail.....

[Cruisebug in Canada]

Regardless of the poverty of the area, these pirates are animals. How about when they are attacking the ship, the cruiselines (as well as shipping vessels, etc.) just return fire and do them all in. Let their bodies float to shore. Interesting entertainment - and I think that, just maybe, lessons might be learned sooner than later.

[JamesEM]

Good idea, I can see it now, twin 50 cals on the Ledo Deck.

[Cruisebug in Canada]

LOL! I just read through all the other posts and none are as irreverent as the last three... I suppose that a majority of cruisers are quite liberal and don't gravitate to frontier justice - but the pirates don't care if anyone is philosophically "on their side". They just want to terrorize and capitalize... The only way to deal with ransomers is to kill enough of them that word gets around...