Code Red vs. reduction in service

[Cathy-CA]

We returned from the Veendam on Sunday. The cruise started under Code Red which lasted for about half of the 7-day cruise. I have experienced Code Red towards the end of a cruise, but never at the beginning. There have been various posts since we cruised last year on the Zaandam discussing reductions in service on HAL ships and so I'm curious about whether some of the things I noticed on this cruise were a result of the Code Red or just a general change in policy.

 

For example, when we met our room steward, he asked if we needed anything. Our fruit basket was empty, so we asked for fresh fruit. He said we would need to order it through room service. We just like having fruit in the room in case we want a snack, but didn't need it that day, so didn't bother to call room service. Unlike the popcorn that did re-appear in the theater after the code red was lifted, we never had fruit in our room.

 

It seemed like the normal fliers about art auctions kept appearing at our door, but not much else. Another example would be "On Deck for the Cure". As a breast cancer survivor this is an event near and dear to my heart. For several days in the daily program, it had a blurb saying information and registration would be delivered to the cabin. They never were, so the day before the event, I went to the front desk and registered. Only 12 people particicpated in the event, so I don't think anyone ever received the information in the cabin. We didn't even receive an evaluation form at the end of the cruise. I didn't see any on our entire deck the last day.

 

We still had a great time on the cruise and are looking forward to sailing the Prisendam next year, so this isn't a "I'm never sailing HAL again rant". I'm just curious how Code Reds effect the operation. This cruise just never seemed to get its rhythm after starting with one.

[Krazy Kruizers]

We have been on quite a few ships that had the Code Red when we got on them, or the Code Red broke out while we cruises.

A lot of things are different when the ship is in Code Red. When we got on a ship that was already in Code -- we had no fruit in the room either -- spa -- pools -- all closed down -- beauty salon closed down.

When the Code Red broke out while we were cruising -- the fruit basket was taken away.

There is no self-service in the Lido --- in both the Lido and dining room dalt and pepper shakers gone. Rolls and butter not on the table -- no flowers on the table at dinner.

The library was closed.

Everything changes when a ship is in Code Red!!

[SDadw01]

Excuse my not knowing, what is "CODE RED"?

[sail7seas]

Code Red is operating conditions put in place if there is a break out of Noro Virus. All salt and pepper shakers, bread baskets are removed from tables and are served individually by stewards. No self service in Lido. Library books are not loaned, hot tubs are closed and intensive, back breaking cleaning work is done by crew.

 

No handshaking permitted, use of sanitary hand cleansers mandated, cloth towels removed from restrooms......

 

It is absolutely necessary to put these things in place to halt the spread but there is some disruption to the average cruise experience.

 

[HannaRay]

The library may close, with its contaminated books; but the casino typically stays open, with its sanitary chips. :rolleyes: That was the case last year on a transatlantic on X.

[Copper10-8]

Extra staff (cast/cruise staff/casino staff, etc.) are put to work behind the counters in the Lido to help serve food/drink items

[Philip217]

The library may close, with its contaminated books; but the casino typically stays open, with its sanitary chips. :rolleyes: That was the case last year on a transatlantic on X.

 

Ideally when a ship has an NLV Outbreak, they should cancel the cruise and send everyone home. But we know that no cruise line wishing to stay in business will do that.

 

Next best choice would be to confine ALL passengers to their cabins for 72 hours, and serve them all room service 3 or 4 times a day, while the ship is being completely sanitized and the ill passengers get over their existing illness. That's not going to happen either.

Too bad, really.

 

The next best choice is to examine all public activities on the vessel, measure their popularity, and measure their potential risks for cross-contamination between passengers.

 

Based on those numbers:

 

Essential activities (like eating) must be maintained, but hopefully made safer for contamination. That's why the buffets stay open, but self service is lost. The dining rooms stay open, but commonly handled items like salt/pepper, condiments, and bread baskets are removed.

 

The high risk, but low popularity activities are cancelled first. Card Rooms and libraries are not very popular, but create quite a high risk for contamination. Very few people complain that "the only reason I took this cruise was for the library".

 

High risk, high popularity activities are rarely cancelled, but are made as safe as possible. Cruise lines know from past experience that closing the internet cafe or the casino can result in sit-ins, petitions, or near mutinies by passengers. Internet cafes make very little money; casinos can sometimes make quite a lot. But closing either would create more problems than it would avoid. Both remain open.

 

Show lounges are very popular and rather risky areas in an outbreak. Closing them would be far safer. Entertainment on ships generates very little revenue, so the cruise lines could afford to close them. But they would receive so many complaints from this that they are willing to risk keeping them open - with extra cleaning procedures in place.

 

The cruise lines establish special cleaning procedures in these popular high risk areas, reducing contamination risks to a much lower level. After rolling your eyes at the "sanitary chips" in the casino, watch the dealers closely. During a Code Yellow or Code Red situation, the chips are replaced very often (usually every 15 or 30 minutes). The chips taken away are sprayed with as Hydrogen Peroxide solution that kills viruses. The playing cards (another high risk item) are replaced far more often than usual, reducing the chances of contamination. Even the dice are decontaminated several times every hour.

[Susie51]

Thank you Phillip for your detailed info about the procedures during a code red.

[brucory]

On our last cruise, fruit was "on request". The stewards had an ongoing supply in their pantry, but it was only provided to those that asked for it. We didnt mind this. There was plenty of whole fruit at the lido.

 

We found that you could still get most things under code red. It is the crew who suffer as the most as they have to work so much harder.

 

:D:D:D

[trixiee]

I would think too, that some of the staff would be sick themselves, therefore they would be working short staffed as well?

[auntdana]

if they know it is a code red when you get on the ship you should have the option to sail or not to sail

 

why aren't6 the cruise lines more

concerned about preventing illness?

 

why not take precautions ahead of time.

 

people at the buffet should never handle the tongs the staff should do that and wear plastic gloves

 

 

when you are at5 the buffet how do i know the last person has clean hands before they touched the serving utensil

 

also the menus are they cvleaned in between seating.

 

 

i always aryr my own personal hand sanitizer whereever i go

 

i have chronic faTIGUE AND CAN NOT TAKE

Alot of chances getting sick

 

[sail7seas]

HAL has been known to distribute letters at the terminal advising embarking guests of the Code Red and the option for them to cancel and have their fare refunded.

 

We disembarked Veendam once in Tampa and when we left the ship it was in Code Red. We returned later in the afternoon to the terminal (as we stayed post cruise in Tampa) and saw that letter.

 

A few people took advantage of the offer.

 

[bepsf]

In my experience, I've found that service is better in Code Red:

Waiters serving bread & butter, no self-serve in the Lido, etc...

 

...IMO, This is the way things should be all the time.

[Rudolph38]

Since Norovirus is obviously a virus, is the hand disinfectant effective against it? Isnt it Purell, which is, I believe effective only against bacteria. Is there any easily available hand disinfectant which would kill the Noro virus?

[bepsf]

Is there any easily available hand disinfectant which would kill the Noro virus?

 

I read someplace that even more effective than the goop they squirt in your hands is a simple wash with Soap and Hot Water...

 

...but in my experience, most Kindergarteners are more capable of this simple task then certain grownups.

:cool:

[CowPrincess]

why aren't6 the cruise lines more

concerned about preventing illness?

 

why not take precautions ahead of time.

 

IMHO the cruise lines are very concerned about illness prevention and containment. However, they cannot force the passengers to be hygenic, nor can they force passengers to be responsible and self-quarantine. There are posts on this and other boards about people who knew they had Noro, yet continued to be out in public areas of the ship, not caring that they were exposing others.

 

people at the buffet should never handle the tongs the staff should do that and wear plastic gloves

 

 

when you are at5 the buffet how do i know the last person has clean hands before they touched the serving utensil

 

You don't know. Nor, if you eat at buffets on land, do you know. How would you expect a ship to be any different? If it is a huge concern, wash your hands before you eat, after you've handled the tongs. We started doing that after we noticed the stewards in the Lido were being extra vigilant with their cleaning, spritzing everything whenever a guest left a table.

 

also the menus are they cvleaned in between seating.

 

Don't know about non-Code Red. Have been told that they ARE cleaned between seatings during Code Red. Personally, I'm more concerned about touching the magazines at the doctor's office.

[Rudolph38]

Can't be done, of course, but I wish there would be some way that once a person enters a lavatory, it stayed locked until the soap and water were used. I am amazed at how many men haven't learned a lesson which little boys should know.

[trixiee]

... It's not just men.:mad:

[Krazy Kruizers]

In answer to one poster's question -- yes there have been times when some of the crew and staff do come down with the Virus.

On one cruise a room steward down the hall from us got the Virus -- our cabin steward and another cabin steward had to split the ill steward's rooms.

Some of the dining room staff got sick -- again duties had to be shared.

The virus even hit the show staff -- so we had a production show cancelled.

We have arrived a couple of times at ships when the virus broke out on the previous cruise -- only once were we given the choice of cancelling -- which we didn't do.

[bishop84]

Can't be done, of course, but I wish there would be some way that once a person enters a lavatory, it stayed locked until the soap and water were used. I am amazed at how many men haven't learned a lesson which little boys should know.

 

Actually it can be done! The automated public restrooms in my home city will not open unless the hand wash facility is being used!

 

Surprisingly, there was a letter of complaint in our local newspaper because someone was complaining that it took away their right to choose not to wash their hands after using the restroom.:eek:

[Rudolph38]

Actually it can be done! The automated public restrooms in my home city will not open unless the hand wash facility is being used!

 

Surprisingly, there was a letter of complaint in our local newspaper because someone was complaining that it took away their right to choose not to wash their hands after using the restroom.:eek:

 

 

I bet if they polled the passengers on cruise ships about this, they would be overwhelmingly in favor. If this poll were taken before the cruise started then those who didnt want to wash their hands after using the potty could be pulled behind in their own little boat.

[nodumblond]

We too were on the Veendam last week. It was an inconvenience, nothing more. We were told by our cabin steward that the fruit bowl would reappear when the 'all clear' was sounded. (And the Captain was very cute about reminding folks to wash their hands as long as it took to sing "Happy Birthday to You" -- the line of which he sung, and then added "the whole song, please, not just the first line"!)

 

Truly, I didn't feel as though our cruise was impacted in any real way, other than the delay in embarking (and rather that than DISembarking!). I was more concerned for the staff, as it made much more work for them -- heard more than one passenger being short because they had to wait for their oatmeal to be served. As if food wasn't plentiful enough on the ship, and we were all in danger of starving to death. ;)

 

I agree -- I actually prefer being served at the Lido; the second half of the week things were getting very messy. :(

[RuthC]

Surprisingly, there was a letter of complaint in our local newspaper because someone was complaining that it took away their right to choose not to wash their hands after using the restroom.:eek:

Was the letter signed with their full name? ;)

[happy cruzer]

One extra point. Remember you get Noro when you put the virus in your mouth. That's why everyone says to wash your hands over and over.

 

I still think there are few problems areas of self protection. If all food could be eaten with silverware it might get rid of most of the trouble. We had bread served to us onto the bread plate but DH still thinks he probably messed up by eating his bread with his hands. So just one more hint to avoid eating things like sandwiches and bread with your hands. Even if you wash you hands immediately before entering the dining room you still might touch several hard surfaces like your chair, glass, silverware handles, a plate, etc...

 

MHO

[Tampa Girl]

 

continued to receive them in our verandah stateroom. We really saw little difference between non-Code Red and Code Red. I agree with the postings that suggested thaWe returned from the Veendam on Sunday. The cruise started under Code Red which lasted for about half of the 7-day cruise. I have experienced Code Red towards the end of a cruise, but never at the beginning. There have been various posts since we cruised last year on the Zaandam discussing reductions in service on HAL ships and so I'm curious about whether some of the things I noticed on this cruise were a result of the Code Red or just a general change in policy.

 

For example, when we met our room steward, he asked if we needed anything. Our fruit basket was empty, so we asked for fresh fruit. He said we would need to order it through room service. We just like having fruit in the room in case we want a snack, but didn't need it that day, so didn't bother to call room service. Unlike the popcorn that did re-appear in the theater after the code red was lifted, we never had fruit in our room.

 

It seemed like the normal fliers about art auctions kept appearing at our door, but not much else. Another example would be "On Deck for the Cure". As a breast cancer survivor this is an event near and dear to my heart. For several days in the daily program, it had a blurb saying information and registration would be delivered to the cabin. They never were, so the day before the event, I went to the front desk and registered. Only 12 people particicpated in the event, so I don't think anyone ever received the information in the cabin. We didn't even receive an evaluation form at the end of the cruise. I didn't see any on our entire deck the last day.

 

We still had a great time on the cruise and are looking forward to sailing the Prisendam next year, so this isn't a "I'm never sailing HAL again rant". I'm just curious how Code Reds effect the operation. This cruise just never seemed to get its rhythm after starting with one.

 

Cathy, we were on the Veendam the week before when Code Red broke out. The fact that only 40 people became ill speaks volumes of HAL's quick response to the situation. Contrary to some of the postings, the library, however, was not closed down. However, the books had to be handled by the librarian, so you needed to know which book you wanted - not an onerous task since you could clearly see the titles. The books were then quarantined for 72 hours upon being returned. As for the fruit, wet the buffet should always be handled by the stewards. I think that it would be an excellent way to avoid the virus being transmitted. And, yes, it is also our own responsibility to frequently wash our hands if we want to avoid being sickened. We can't depend completely on the staff. Interesting, HAL is now allowing people to board if they acknowlege being sick - but they immediately quarantine them for 48 hours. Hopefully, it will deter people from lying about their health status in order to avoid being denied embarkation.