When Will They Start Shutting Down?

[sail7seas]

....

[Casino Player]

[quote name='kryos']Exactly. It's just the nature of the Caribbean to be dead in the summer months ... not just because of the lack of cruise ship visits, but because of the weather. No one wants to plan for months on a relaxing Caribbean vacation, only to have those dreams slashed at the last minute when a hurricane tears through cancelling all of the flights. So people plan on other sorts of vacations if they must travel in the summertime, resulting in the very poor tourism numbers for those months.

It's the same in Alaska. They die come the fall. After all, I doubt there are very many people willing to travel in Alaska in the dead of winter.

It's just the cyclical nature of tourism all over the world. Sometimes it's high season and you're "living large," and sometimes everything is dead and you simply don't work very often. It's just something they have to deal with, and have dealt with for many years.

Blue skies ...

--rita[/quote]

[SIZE=3][COLOR=darkgreen]Except for families with school age kids there should be no reason to go to the Carribean during the summer. It is too hot and humid. If hurricanes come then a cruise ship could change destination. If you are there at a hotel then hunker down. A tour guide at an island told me he goes to England June, July, and August because it is so hot and humid there. He returns in after Labor Day when it cools off.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[jtl513]

[quote name='kryos']
Please don't take this wrong, because I honestly don't mean it to sound cruel ... but what the heck is a "senior" doing with a mortage? A senior who is retired[B] has no business living in a home that he has to maintain a mortgage on.[/B][/quote]Maybe they refinanced to pull out equity to put kids through college, or pay off medical bills. Maybe they moved up to the home of their dreams at or shortly before retirement, and didn't know the economy was going to tank 7 or 8 months ago. Now they can't move to a "modest" home because there are no buyers. There are many reasons why a senior may have a mortgage, and it's not up to decide whether they "should" or not.

[sail7seas]

[quote name='Casino Player'][SIZE=3][COLOR=darkgreen]Except for families with school age kids there should be no reason to go to the Carribean during the summer. It is too hot and humid. If hurricanes come then a cruise ship could change destination. If you are there at a hotel then hunker down. A tour guide at an island told me he goes to England June, July, and August because it is so hot and humid there. He returns in after Labor Day when it cools off.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/quote]


[B]We have enjoyed a number of cruises and land resort vacations in the Caribbean through the years during summer months and are very sorry HAL no longer sails there for a full six months of the year.

For many years, HAL positioned their newest ship for summer in the Caribbean their Inaugural year. We sailed those summer Caribbean cruises on Statendam, Zandam, Zuiderdam and I can't remember which others during their first summer.[/B]

[B]We happily visit the Caribbean 12 months of the year. [/B]
[B]The best reason we can think of as to why we go in summer months is because we enjoy it. :)[/B]

[Sea King]

[quote name='kryos']If the Dean of Harvard Business School was one who encouraged giving inflated mortgages to those who truly couldn't afford them, then frankly, I don't care what he thinks. As far as I'm concerned, in that case, he's an idiot too.

Blue skies ...

--rita[/quote]

Rita: sounds like you're getting a wee bit testy:)

then again, if what's going on doesn't touch a nerve, you probably haven't looked at tv or read a paper in a long long time

so far the only idiot(s) I know are the folks in Congress who gave approval to something none of them read

oh well .. don't think you can fight city hall anyhow .. or can you:rolleyes:

but keeping with the theme of the post:eek:, I for one believe the "best has yet to come"

at the rate things are going, you might see a Happy Hour from 5-8 p.m. daily:D

[mamaofami]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]Rita, I couldn't agree with you more about Maidoff, so there's nothing to say about that. I ony hope he gets all he desrves and more.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]However, there are many seniors who do have small mortgages for different reasons and some of them made perfectly good sense at the time. Some of those million dollar homes were bought a while ago before the market tanked. Some pepople were working when they bought their homes. Bottom liine is, even if they don't have a mortgage, if they've lost lots of money in the market, it's still hard to afford the upkeep and living expenses when money is tight. There is no one size fits all plan for seniors or anyone else for that matter.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]

[mamaofami]

I stopped for some sushi today at my favorite sushi place in a very upscale city here. They were empty and told me that at lunch they used to get the office crowd but now the office people are brown bagging it.They're OK on weekends. They told me that most of the restaurants are just hoping they can hold on and make their expenses.And this restaurant is in the wealthiest community in Westchester, NY.

[AlinaMaria]

It may be slow for jewelry and electronics purchases but cruise business will continue; summer cruising out of Florida ports is always busy year round, 3-4-5- & 7 days cruises available, and some very large ships sail from South Florida. Summer cruises sail from: Miami, Ft Lauderdale, Cape Canaveral, Tampa, New York, New Jersey, Baltimore, New Orleans, Mobile and Galveston.

Even though HAL and Celebrity do not have any summer Caribbean cruises look at this:

Carnival: Carnival Valor, Carnival Freedom, Carnival Liberty, Carnival Glory, and Carnival Conquest (2974 pax each); Carnival Destiny (2642 pax); Carnival Imagination, Carnival Inspiration, and Carnival Ecstasy (2052 pax each); Carnival Holiday (1452 pax); Carnival Fantasy (2056 pax); Carnival Miracle, Carnival Pride, and Carnival Legend (2124 pax each)

RCL: Liberty of the Seas and Freedom of the Seas (4370 pax each); Enchantment of the Seas and Grandeur of the Seas (2446 pax each); Majesty of the Seas (2744 pax); Explorer of the Seas (3114)

NCL: Norwegian Sky (2000 pax)

DCL: Disney Magic (2600 pax)

Princess: Caribbean Princess (3100 pax)

We may not like mega ships but at prices ranging from $500 to $700 per week is attractive for young couples, singles, families, etc. that can only travel during summer months.

I do feel sad that my favorite: HAL, Celebrity, and Princess do not sail during the summer from South Florida. But last November I did the 3 day out of Miami in NCL Norwegian Sky and I was quite happy with the result. I had sworn never to do a weekend cruise again after terrible experiences with Carnival and RCL, but for $99 for the 3-day I could not resist: NCL has changed my mind. I can still enjoy Nassau's Paradise Island beaches in the summer without going bankrupt and having to pack formal wear!!!!:D

[i0L0y]

haha...honestly the cruise lines and tourism spots have increased income , people go on vacation when there stressed

[sail7seas]

[quote name='AlinaMaria']It may be slow for jewelry and electronics purchases but cruise business will continue; summer cruising out of Florida ports is always busy year round, 3-4-5- & 7 days cruises available, and some very large ships sail from South Florida. Summer cruises sail from: Miami, Ft Lauderdale, Cape Canaveral, Tampa, New York, New Jersey, Baltimore, New Orleans, Mobile and Galveston.

Even though HAL and Celebrity do not have any summer Caribbean cruises look at this:

Carnival: Carnival Valor, Carnival Freedom, Carnival Liberty, Carnival Glory, and Carnival Conquest (2974 pax each); Carnival Destiny (2642 pax); Carnival Imagination, Carnival Inspiration, and Carnival Ecstasy (2052 pax each); Carnival Holiday (1452 pax); Carnival Fantasy (2056 pax); Carnival Miracle, Carnival Pride, and Carnival Legend (2124 pax each)

RCL: Liberty of the Seas and Freedom of the Seas (4370 pax each); Enchantment of the Seas and Grandeur of the Seas (2446 pax each); Majesty of the Seas (2744 pax); Explorer of the Seas (3114)

NCL: Norwegian Sky (2000 pax)

DCL: Disney Magic (2600 pax)

Princess: Caribbean Princess (3100 pax)
[/quote]


[B] Maybe it's just me but none of the above gives me any info I can make head nor tails of. How many times do these ships sail? How long are the cruises? How do those numbers compare to an average week or month during the winter? To say Disney ship carries a given number of guests says what? I'm not getting the message.

As I posted above, we spent 8 days in FLL and our hotel room faced directly to Port Everglades. Days went by when there was no ship in at all. That never happens during winter months. The whole eight days, I think we may have seen 3 ships. That doesn't pay the electric bill!

[sail7seas]

[quote]Quote:
Originally Posted by sail7seas
[b]Forget the economy....... tourism in the summer in tropical regions drops.

Exactly. It's just the nature of the Caribbean to be dead in the summer months ... not just because of the lack of cruise ship visits, but because of the weather. No one wants to plan for months on a relaxing Caribbean vacation, only to have those dreams slashed at the last minute when a hurricane tears through cancelling all of the flights. So people plan on other sorts of vacations if they must travel in the summertime, resulting in the very poor tourism numbers for those months.

It's the same in Alaska. They die come the fall. After all, I doubt there are very many people willing to travel in Alaska in the dead of winter.

It's just the cyclical nature of tourism all over the world. Sometimes it's high season and you're "living large," and sometimes everything is dead and you simply don't work very often. It's just something they have to deal with, and have dealt with for many years.

Blue skies ...

--rita
[/quote]


[B]When you chop one small sentence out of a lengthy post, you lose all context. This is not representive of the message in my post(s). ;)



[/B]

[airlink diva]

Great thread [B]sail7seas[/B]!!! This was something that was mentioned by one of my favorite tour guides last year. I was in St. Lucia and my tour guide mentioned how not only the cruise guest are touring less,but also their land based guest. He mentioned how one major hotel was about to lay off over 90% of the staff because they had fewer than 20 guest each night. This wasn't the only hotel that was having this problem.
He was also mentioning that his business was down slighty,but some of his co-workers were down by half.
I still did all of the tours that I wanted,but my tablemates mentioned that they cut out tours in one or two ports, or cut back in buying items.
I know that that major stores will still be around,but I love buying from the small mom and pop vendors on my cruises. You get a really feel of that island from the small vendors.

[AlinaMaria]

[quote name='sail7seas'][b] Maybe it's just me but none of the above gives me any info I can make head nor tails of. How many times do these ships sail? How long are the cruises? How do those numbers compare to an average week or month during the winter? To say Disney ship carries a given number of guests says what? I'm not getting the message.

As I posted above, we spent 8 days in FLL and our hotel room faced directly to Port Everglades. Days went by when there was no ship in at all. That never happens during winter months. The whole eight days, I think we may have seen 3 ships. That doesn't pay the electric bill![/quote]

Of course days will go by without any ships. The same happens in Miami. Most of the sailings occur between Friday thru Monday. Occasionally you will see sailings on weekdays but is not common. Like Seattle in the summer with Alaska sailings mostly on Saturdays and Sundays.

Considering what many of you do for a living (like work in the travel industry) and others that travel so much, you should know that most of the ships I mentioned sail YEAR ROUND to the Caribbean. These ships are rarely not booked solid. Now that the prices have come down so much just about everyone I know has already booked cruises for this spring and summer. (last November I did 3 days for $99 in NCL and 4 days in Celebrity for $250), and I am a nurse, I am not a travel agent and I do not have any "family and friends" deals either!

For example, Miami has 3 ships sailing year round 3 and 4 days cruises to the Bahamas (Carnival, RCL, and NCL). Ft Lauderdale has 2 (Carnival and RCL). RCL has ships in both Miami and FT Lauderdale sailing year round to the Caribbean 7 days cruises. The Freedom of the Seas always sails full! Disney sails to the Caribbean from Port Canaveral year round. (BTW all the ships I mentioned in my post do year round to the Caribbean!!). I don't think the Caribbean market will suffer as much as other areas that have seasonal tourism due to weather such as Alaska, Hawaii, Europe, Bermuda.

The Caribbean is warm all year round and gets the Florida residents in the summer and the snow birds in the winter: the best of both worlds. Even during hurricane season, the Caribbean is a great deal because the ships sail around the storm and a day at sea on a cruise ship is better than a day at home anytime of the year! Hey, once because of a storm approaching Miami, I got 2 days free on a cruise ship, now that's a bargain I'll take anytime!!!

Recently a lot of travelers are booking directly online. I recently booked with HAL for the first time online because I got the same cabin in the Eurodam for $250 less than with a travel agent!!!!!!:eek: I also get e-docs much faster, easier, and without having to fight the TA for upgrades, information, etc.

Have you considered maybe the stores in the islands are not selling as much because people are realizing that there are no such bargains? I have never purchased jewelry or electronics in the islands because I can get it a much better price in Downtown Miami or in any of the outlets in Florida (such as Orlando and Sawgrass Mills), and even with having to pay sales tax, it is cheaper and I don't have to be bothering with going thru customs...

Also most of the excursions have not changed in years. The tour owners need to work on new excursions, better transportation, etc.

Possibly many of the stores or malls you may have visited aim their business to the tourists (which is common of Ft Lauderdale and Miami Beach/South Beach, Downtown Miami) but if you go to residential areas such as Dadeland Mall, Westland Mall, The Falls, Pembroke Pines, etc. in Miami-Dade County and Broward County, you will find that the stores are selling, the restaurants are full, parking is hard to find, etc.

Many of the foreclosures in South Florida are due to banks selling homes to people that could not afford them, people that had lied about their income, and to illegal aliens and people actually living in other countries such as Nicaragua, Venezuela, Colombia, etc. These countries now have voted socialist and communist goverments; therefore, these "home buyers" are abandoning their vacation homes because they are not allowed to take their own money out of the country...

Also, many contractors overpriced their condos and homes.... Most of the condos not been sold in South Florida is because they have sales prices of over $1million; however, the cruise ships are sailing to capacity because people continue to take vacations.

For us in South Florida not having to pay for airfare is a real advantage and cruising is the best deal around.

Like someone mentioned Disney is charging an arm and a leg for their rooms; however, the parks, the restaurants and the shops are full! And Disney cruises are selling....

Are we in an economic crisis? Of course we are. But if unemployment is 8% that means 92% are working (remember unemployment at 11% in 1998?). They said yesterday the DowJones has not been this low since 1998 which means it has happened before and it will come up again. At least we are not waiting in long lines for gasoline like we did in 1974 and interest rates are not 21-22% like they were in 1989!

We just have to make sure that our country is kept free and democratic. Where free entreprise is allowed to flourish. Where free loaders are not allowed to take advantage of government assistance programs.

BTW: vacationing helps the economy worldwide!

Good night!

[kryos]

[quote name='Sea King']but keeping with the theme of the post:eek:, I for one believe the "best has yet to come"

at the rate things are going, you might see a Happy Hour from 5-8 p.m. daily:D[/QUOTE]I am with you. I prefer to see the glass half full, rather than half empty.

I think we are in a bad storm right now. Yes, I do read the newspapers ... in fact, I work for 'em. :) But I think a lot of the doom and gloom we read is just that ... doom and gloom. We're Americans and we've been through worse. It will be tough, no question ... it has been tough and it will probably get worse before it gets better. But our economy is not sinking so badly that we can't rebound ... and we will.

Better times are coming ... we just have to weather the hurricane until we get to them.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[MadManOfBethesda]

[quote name='AlinaMaria']
. But if unemployment is 8% that means 92% are working (remember unemployment at 11% in 1998?). [/quote]

Actually, I don't remember unemployment being at 11% in 1998.

And with good reason.

That is completely false.

Unemployment was between 4.3% & 4.7% in 1998.

In fact, you have to go all the way back to 1984 to find the last time we had unemployment of 8%.

As for your 11% figure......

Well, you have to go back to before WWII!!

Here's a link to the official figures:

[URL]http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/UNRATE.txt[/URL]

And, guess what?

According to several economists, unemployment could be back in double figures by the end of this year.

Oh, and one other thing.....

That statement that 8% unemployment means 92% are working is very misleading.

For example, if someone loses their full-time, 40 hour/week job and finds a part-time job such as a WalMart greeter, they are not counted in that 8%.

Additionally, the 8% doesn't include people who have given up looking for work, such as one member of a former two-income family.

Economists estimate that the "real" unemployment rate is already at 13.5%.

And it is going to get worse.

This isn't like the recession of the early 1980s or early 1990s.

It is not even similar to the severe 1973-1974 recession.

No, we have already surpassed that.

Next stop, 1929 -1933.

And it is not the fault of illegal aliens or "free-loaders" on government assistance programs.:rolleyes:

[COLLEYBERRY]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3] I prefer a half full glass as well.... but headlines like these don't help much. Toronto Star this week....Economist says" light at the end of the tunnel...it's a train.":([/SIZE][/FONT]

[babyher]

Sail

Very interesting thread and it has lead to a very good dsicussion here . Thank you for starting it.


Rita ,

Once again, the more of your posts I read the more I want to be president of your fan club *LOL*. I agree and you always say it beautifully and right on the money IMHO.

You can blame the stock market, and the Dow, and supply and demand , and foreign competitors , and crooked politicians and every one else from here to the man in the moon.

But, if you have been living way above your means and robbing Peter to pay Paul for too many years , you are no ones victim but your own when it all falls down and you are running around looking for a fig leaf.

According to the junk mail I have been getting for years , I am pre approved for every gold, platinum, Titanium, Zinc, and magnesium credit card they make. Those letters go straight in the garbage because no matter what Visa, and AMEX THINK I am good for , I KNOW what I am good for.

[sail7seas]

[quote name='babyher']Sail

According to the junk mail I have been getting for years , I am pre approved for every gold, platinum, Titanium, Zinc, and magnesium credit card they make. Those letters go straight in the garbage because no matter what Visa, and AMEX THINK I am good for , I KNOW what I am good for.[/quote]

[B] Very good point about the credit card way of life so many take as the only way to live.

I was at Marshall's yesterday and went to the register to buy two jerseys for our upcoming cruise. The lady at the register mumbled to me: "Slide your credit card now". I answered: "Why would I do that seeing as I am paying cash?" Her: "What? :confused:

She actually had to stop a moment and remember how to enter the sale as a cash transaction. She hadn't seen U.S. currency (in this Boston area store) used for quite a while, apparently. :rolleyes:

Now that credit card companies are slashing people's credit limits in half, people who had planned to live off of their credit cards won't have that option. AmEx actually is making offers to some customers to pay off their balances, get $300 from AmEx to cut up their cards. :eek:

How did people think this wouldn't all catch up with them sooner or later? Reality has hit~!

[mariemorgan]

[quote name='sail7seas'][b] Maybe it's just me but none of the above gives me any info I can make head nor tails of. How many times do these ships sail? How long are the cruises? How do those numbers compare to an average week or month during the winter? To say Disney ship carries a given number of guests says what? I'm not getting the message.

As I posted above, we spent 8 days in FLL and our hotel room faced directly to Port Everglades. Days went by when there was no ship in at all. That never happens during winter months. The whole eight days, I think we may have seen 3 ships. That doesn't pay the electric bill![/quote]

They go every week.. Carnival doesn't stop doing the caribbean.. the ships never sit empty or not moving unless it's in a dry dock.

7 Days: Carnival Valor, Carnival Freedom, Carnival Liberty, Carnival Glory, and Carnival Conquest Carnival Miracle, Carnival Pride, and Carnival Legend (2124 pax each)


4 & 5 Day Cruises: Carnival Destiny (2642 pax); Carnival Imagination, Carnival Inspiration, and Carnival Ecstasy (2052 pax each); Carnival Holiday (1452 pax); Carnival Fantasy (2056 pax)

[babyher]

[quote name='sail7seas'][b] Very good point about the credit card way of life so many take as the only way to live.

I was at Marshall's yesterday and went to the register to buy two jerseys for our upcoming cruise. The lady at the register mumbled to me: "Slide your credit card now". I answered: "Why would I do that seeing as I am paying cash?" Her: "What? :confused:

She actually had to stop a moment and remember how to enter the sale as a cash transaction. She hadn't seen U.S. currency (in this Boston area store) used for quite a while, apparently. :rolleyes:

Now that credit card companies are slashing people's credit limits in half, people who had planned to live off of their credit cards won't have that option. AmEx actually is making offers to some customers to pay off their balances, get $300 from AmEx to cut up their cards. :eek:

How did people think this wouldn't all catch up with them sooner or later? Reality has hit~![/quote]


I see people chargeing their donut and coffee at Dunkin Donuts in the morning and their Big Mac at Mickey D's at lunch .

Yes I feel bad for anyone losing their home or having to go bankrupt, but for many don't tell me you didn't see this coming

[DFD1]

Great thread with lots of good thoughts and informatoin. Thanks.

The free enterprise system is on the operating table right now and the Federal Government is the surgeon. Let's hope very foundation of this great country is not killed on the operating table by the Feds, who are trying to fix it.

I fear that is the great danger.

IMO, only.

[sail7seas]

[quote name='mariemorgan']They go every week.. Carnival doesn't stop doing the caribbean.. the ships never sit empty or not moving unless it's in a dry dock.

7 Days: Carnival Valor, Carnival Freedom, Carnival Liberty, Carnival Glory, and Carnival Conquest Carnival Miracle, Carnival Pride, and Carnival Legend (2124 pax each)


4 & 5 Day Cruises: Carnival Destiny (2642 pax); Carnival Imagination, Carnival Inspiration, and Carnival Ecstasy (2052 pax each); Carnival Holiday (1452 pax); Carnival Fantasy (2056 pax)[/quote]


[B] That's a lot of Carnival ships sailing the Caribbean 12 months a year? As I mentioned, of the 8 days we spent in FLL last June, we saw three ships sail from Port Everglades. One of those ships was Carnival. I realize they mostly use Miami. But do none of the ships listed not reposition for spring/summer/fall? If Miami has that many 12 month ships, I'm really surprised to hear it. Wonder why Port Everglades has so few?

None of the cruise lines have ships sitting empty. They all sail 12 months but a great many reposition to Alaska, Canada/New England and Europe for spring, summer and fall.

I am not in travel business and only sail HAL so really am not familiar with the itineraries of many other lines. All I know is what I see.[/B]

[cusyl]

Unfortunately, I lost half my value of an annuity before I switched it to a fixed annuity. I will still be cruising, but in an inside cabin instead of a balcony, and certainly won't be spending any money on the islands. :(

[MadManOfBethesda]

[quote name='babyher']I see people chargeing their donut and coffee at Dunkin Donuts in the morning and their Big Mac at Mickey D's at lunch .

Yes I feel bad for anyone losing their home or having to go bankrupt, but for many don't tell me you didn't see this coming[/quote]

Don't jump to any conclusions by that. I charge everything I can (and of course pay the bills in full each month) in order to get either AmEx points or 2% cash back on my Visa. I've traveled to Europe & Asia free (air + hotels) as a result of such charges.

[marle7]

we've tended to sail out of Port Canaveral for summer cruises. We sailed out of Port Everglades for the first time last year for a winter cruise.

Babyher, I don't think you can use a credit card for Mickey D's up here. Of course, it's been several years since I've been in one. They may be allowing debit cards now, but not sure. Our debit cards and credit cards are separate here. I always get confused in the States when I hand them my Visa and they say debit or credit.

Ontario is getting socked by the auto industry crunch. We haven't had as much fall out with real estate because our laws are a little different up here, in that anyone who can't put down I think it might be 20% of the purchase price is required to take out Canada Mortgage Insurance. [url]http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/co/moloin/moloin_002.cfm[/url].

Having said that, housing prices are way down for sellers especially waterfront cottage type of properties right now.