EPIC Cabin Defect? Bathrooms/showers/etc

[CruisnGram]

 

CCL & RCL let NCL do their market research for them. What they found was that there are a lot of people who want to choose their own dining time. There are also a lot of people who like traditional dining. There is not great demand for adding a large number of smaller restaurants that have a surcharge.

 

That may be true on RCL and Carnival, but it's not on NCL. I think that the fact that the Epic is having even more variety of surcharge restaurants available, is indeed a sign that people love the variety and want more.

 

CCL is moving to anytime dining AND keeping traditional, which will satisfy the majority of their market.

 

While that is true for CCL, that is not what NCL markets itself as. Those that sail NCL as a whole, do not want traditional dining and want more choices in their dining venues.

 

If NCL had been successful (profitable) with their offering of multiple dining venues when many of them had additional cost, you can believe RCL & CCL would be following this model in new builds and in retrofitting their existing ships when scheduled for refurbishment.

 

Again, I disagree. Retrofiting ships to have numerous dining options is not easy. Why do you think that NCL has not done that on the Majesty? She only has one surcharge restaurant. Freestyle dining requires different design layouts and those that were not originally designed that way, are most difficult to alter at a later date.

 

I also think that NCL has cornered the market on freestyle dining and the other lines have no desire to attempt to compete. They are happy in their "niche" which is successful for them.I also think you may have misunderstood what I said in the post that you quoted which was:

 

"The bathroom layout discusssion reminds me of all the discussion that took place about there being no main dining rooms on the Epic. That all food venues would be an additional charge. No one knew for sure, but assumptions were made. And now we know those assumptions were wrong. So Lighthouse: if the RCL and Carnival people are having a good laugh over this, perhaps they should think back to all the laughs they had about no main dining rooms, as NCL fans are indeed having the last laugh on that one. "

 

I wasn't referring in any way to freestyle vs non freestyle. I was referring to all of the rampid rumors that were flying around all the boards saying that the Epic would have no free dining venues...all would be surcharge. Simply because they had no dining venues called "Main dining room" the assumption was made by many that that meant that all dining would have a surcharge.

 

Many on the RCL and Carnival boards were having a grand old time, laughing, making fun, etc. Totally enjoying all their jokes and deliberately goading NCL fans. They not only did this on their own boards, but came here to do so. Those were who I was referring to when I said that NCL and it's fans were having the last laugh now that it is indeed fact that there are included dining areas one even being a very cool supper club with live music and dancing (which to my knowledge, not other cruise line has)Sorry I didn't make that clearer. :)

 

CG

[dtracker]

Here is an example of utterly uninformed nonsense written as if it is fact. What BS! How do people get away with posting such pure, unfounded speculation?

 

This is the kind of stuff that ruins Cruise Critic for people seeking hard, accurate information about cruising.

 

It's only their opinion or perception, sottovoce. Nothing to get worked up about! :D

 

DT

[dtracker]

Am I a drunk? No. Haven't BEEN drunk in probably well over 10 years.

 

If everyone else can say that about you, that's a good thing! :D

 

DT

[SailAways]

It looks as though there is a expandable partition in the layout to me - between the sink and the shower. It is the orange-ish color.

Enlarge it completely and zoom in on this section to see if it appears so.

 

Whatever, I bet it is delightful. Such imagination is at least fun.

[beachchick]

I'm 6'5" and weigh 200 pounds. I always dry myself off in the ship's shower. The towel never gets wet from the wet shower walls. Why must people create problems out of whole cloth?

 

Here's a ship no one has sailed or even seen and people are already whining about it. Unbelievable.

 

Pardon? I'm not creating problems out of anything. I was responding to another member's post with my own personal experiences regarding towels and showers. There have been situations where I have needed to grab the towel and try to dry off and wrap up while in the shower. I did not enjoy those times. Maybe I just stretch out too much when I dry my back or lean over to towel off my hair. I'm not a huge woman (5'2" about 130 lb these days), but I can't actually really dry off in the shower stall.

 

I wasn't whining and I wasn't making any kind of fuss. No need to chastise me.

 

beachchick

[fin]

Here is an example of utterly uninformed nonsense written as if it is fact. What BS! How do people get away with posting such pure, unfounded speculation?

 

This is the kind of stuff that ruins Cruise Critic for people seeking hard, accurate information about cruising.

 

The comment was indeed speculative, based on conclusions drawn from the information on the ship which has been published. Since I drew the same conclusion, based on the same facts, it may indeed be "pure" speculation, but not necessarily "unfounded".

 

The tone of your response is not very genial either.

[rootbear]

The one design aspect I did not like was the sink in the cabin area. I personally pick hotel rooms that do not have this feature. It does not make sense to me since when I cruiise the cabin mates do not always have the same schedule. So brushing teeth in the middle of the night or at dawn and the other occupants are not awake, can be disturbing. I personally was disappointed to see this proposed layout.

[electricron]

The one design aspect I did not like was the sink in the cabin area. I personally pick hotel rooms that do not have this feature. It does not make sense to me since when I cruiise the cabin mates do not always have the same schedule. So brushing teeth in the middle of the night or at dawn and the other occupants are not awake, can be disturbing. I personally was disappointed to see this proposed layout.

 

Well, that is a problem. :rolleyes:

 

Everyone has a personal preference. :eek:

 

Personally, I prefer the sink in the cabin. I like the new cabin layouts on the Norwegian Epic. ;)

 

I wonder how a marketing study would break it down? :cool:

[CastawayCruiser]

I really like the layout of the Epic cabins as well. I can understand why some wouldn't but the one time we stayed in a hotel with this bathroom set up we just loved it!! It was so easy to get ready.

[SPMorrissey]

The bathroom layout discusssion reminds me of all the discussion that took place about there being no main dining rooms on the Epic. That all food venues would be an additional charge. No one knew for sure, but assumptions were made. And now we know those assumptions were wrong. So Lighthouse: if the RCL and Carnival people are having a good laugh over this, perhaps they should think back to all the laughs they had about no main dining rooms, as NCL fans are indeed having the last laugh on that one.

 

No one knows exactly what the bathrooms are going to be like as we just can't tell from the pictures/sketches of the cabins. The only thing that I will say is that the people who design these ships aren't dummies....they are professionals. And NCL knows that many times, people who aren't families travel in the same cabin. They also know that even families still need some privacy. So why would they design a cabin bathroom that provides no privacy? Why would they design a cabin where if someone was using the shower and pulled the privacy curtain, no one could get to the toilet area? Or no one could enter or leave the cabin? It just makes no sense to me whatsoever....and I'm not a professional.

 

Like everyone else, I'm speculating here, but I think that the shower that you are looking at is more then just a shower stall. I think it's a small room that contains both the shower and a dressing area. That gives you privacy in that area, or if you do indeed want more room, and it's convenient, you can pull the privacy curtain and use the entire area.

 

I personally think that having a separate toilet and sink area is wonderful. Someone that is showering doesn't tie up the whole area. If it's designed properly, I think it's going to be a great improvement over current bathroom designs.

 

CG

People make mistakes, even professional ones. Professional and intelligent people designed a bleacher section in the Bronx that allowed a view like this. Just because it looks good on paper doesn't mean it works.

http://slidingintohome.blogspot.com/2008/08/this-is-absolute-disgrace.html

[sjbdtz]

People make mistakes, even professional ones. Professional and intelligent people designed a bleacher section in the Bronx that allowed a view like this. Just because it looks good on paper doesn't mean it works.

http://slidingintohome.blogspot.com/2008/08/this-is-absolute-disgrace.html

 

 

I don't know...there's an audience for everything....for example, if I was forced to endure a baseball game....I'd be thankful that at least the wall provided shade, as well as blocking the view :rolleyes:

[Medicmom]

I wouldn't want the absolute best possible meal on any cruiseline where I had no choice but to listen to YOU.

I call bad form on this comment.:eek:

 

Anyway, it seems that this may not be the most thouroughly thoughtout design, especially for those who don't travel with an intimate partner.... and even some that do ;) LOL

 

I know when the professionals built the new ambulance bay at our new ER they built them to fit 4 ambulances-- as per spec-- too bad they forgot that the back doors need to open, and a 6 foot stretcher needs to come out of it:D The bay does fit 4 ambulances--- bumper to bumper. They also needed a minimum of 9.5' roof clearance-- they gave us that and more-- 16' foot ceiling height--- they just put the decon shower units, and all the piping at 8' all around the room. LOL

I think that like most people-- most professionals do a great job-- but sometimes they forget about some of the little or more obscure details.... and that's when you end up with showers being knocked off walls and ambulances unloading pt's on the street... LOL:p

[Sea Hound]

Book suites and this will be a non-issue!:p

 

Sea Hound:D <-- loves the "suite life"

[Mooder]

I really like the layout of the Epic cabins as well. I can understand why some wouldn't but the one time we stayed in a hotel with this bathroom set up we just loved it!! It was so easy to get ready.

 

Exactly. It works out perfectly well in the majority of hotels I have ever stayed in and I have always preferred it. Why would a cruise cabin be any different? Until we know whether or not there is a changing area within the shower area - and it has been suggested by an NCL crewmember that there is, this is an argument about speculation. If that changing area is there, none of these concerns make sense to me. If there is not, then I would agree with the concern.

[lighthouse206]

Exactly. It works out perfectly well in the majority of hotels I have ever stayed in and I have always preferred it. Why would a cruise cabin be any different? Until we know whether or not there is a changing area within the shower area - and it has been suggested by an NCL crewmember that there is, this is an argument about speculation. If that changing area is there, none of these concerns make sense to me. If there is not, then I would agree with the concern.

 

So far I've seen no evidence of a changing area. The floor plan on NCL's own website does not show a changing area, it shows a door and a shower drain. The picture of the studio cabin (same type of floor plan, again no changing area evident) shows a semi-transparent shower door opening directly into the cabin.

 

If there was in fact a changing area, don't you think NCL might note it in their cabin descriptions?

 

Better yet, why don't one of the MANY travel agents that frequent this board simply call up NCL marketing and confirm this once and for all?

[Mooder]

So far I've seen no evidence of a changing area. The floor plan on NCL's own website does not show a changing area, it shows a door and a shower drain. The picture of the studio cabin (same type of floor plan, again no changing area evident) shows a semi-transparent shower door opening directly into the cabin.

 

If there was in fact a changing area, don't you think NCL might note it in their cabin descriptions?

 

Better yet, why don't one of the MANY travel agents that frequent this board simply call up NCL marketing and confirm this once and for all?

 

I really don't know, but since we are speculating. I think it is not enough of a separate area to show on a floor plan. James the NCL crewmember who saw a mock-up of the cabins described it this way:

 

"There are towel racks in the shower and plenty of space to dry yourself. Its not just a shower tower with a glass door there is some space. No worries."

 

The way I look at it is if there is enough room for a towel rack, presumably with no fear of the towel getting wet by the shower, then there is enough room for me to hang my robe or even clothing so that I am not stepping out in to the cabin in my altogether. That's all I need. It is not as though the floor plan for the showers in the current ships have that much space when you step out. It is pretty tight, but it is enough to dry and clothe myself.

[petesweet]

Better yet, why don't one of the MANY travel agents that frequent this board simply call up NCL marketing and confirm this once and for all?

 

I have been in email correspondence with an online TA trying to get me to book the Epic. She followed up today since I had not committed and asked if she could do anything to help me decide. I told her about this discussion and asked if she could find out the answer. She said she would check with NCL and get back to me. When (if) she does, I'll report back here.

I told her this would be a deal-breaker for me.

[SuiteTraveler]

There is a special kind of glass that with the flick of a switch goes from tranparent to obscure. It is used around here in upscale homes in the master bathroom, often for the window which may overlook a backyard. It can also be used on showers and other types of doors when you want it to be clear most of the time to make the room look more spacious but obscure sometimes for privacy. Some upscale modern hotels and restaurants are using it on the doors to the toilets. If the toilet is unoccupied the glass is clear, when the lock is turned, the glass becomes obscure. Perhaps that is what they have used for these showers.

 

http://www.smartglass.co.za/privacyGlass.asp

 

http://www.inhabitat.com/2006/02/19/super-smart-privacy-glass/

[dtracker]

I have been in email correspondence with an online TA trying to get me to book the Epic. She followed up today since I had not committed and asked if she could do anything to help me decide. I told her about this discussion and asked if she could find out the answer. She said she would check with NCL and get back to me. When (if) she does, I'll report back here.

I told her this would be a deal-breaker for me.

 

That would be a dealbreaker for us too, Kathy. In every architectural rendering and schematic I've seen, the door opens right into the cabin. It's a big snafu as far as I'm concerned. It's no big deal for us, however, since I think the EPIC is too large and modern for my personal taste. :p JMHO.

 

I love the sleek classical lines of a traditional cruise ship. The EPIC looks like something my 5-year old grandson built out of Leggos. :rolleyes: I would still enjoy hearing what they tell you.

 

DT

[Azure Moon]

There is a special kind of glass that with the flick of a switch goes from tranparent to obscure. It is used around here in upscale homes in the master bathroom, often for the window which may overlook a backyard. It can also be used on showers and other types of doors when you want it to be clear most of the time to make the room look more spacious but obscure sometimes for privacy. Some upscale modern hotels and restaurants are using it on the doors to the toilets. If the toilet is unoccupied the glass is clear, when the lock is turned, the glass becomes obscure. Perhaps that is what they have used for these showers.

 

http://www.smartglass.co.za/privacyGlass.asp

 

http://www.inhabitat.com/2006/02/19/super-smart-privacy-glass/

 

I'll be skipping those restrooms. I've seen my fair share of public restrooms with non-working door latches. :eek:

[time2cruise1]

I have been in email correspondence with an online TA trying to get me to book the Epic. She followed up today since I had not committed and asked if she could do anything to help me decide. I told her about this discussion and asked if she could find out the answer. She said she would check with NCL and get back to me. When (if) she does, I'll report back here.

 

I told her this would be a deal-breaker for me.

 

I guess I am missing something here :confused: I am not sure what other privacy some are looking for. It is clear from the renderings you can close off the front of the cabin with the curtain giving anyone total privacy to use both the shower and toilet area, Plenty of private space to dress.

[RLJPHX]

Okay, let's think this through, but only if you can handle the truth!

 

Why did NCL innovate the wave stateroom?

 

To please passengers? To provide a better passenger experience? To provide more privacy? No, no and no!

 

They innovated it because it's smaller, and they can squeeze more staterooms into the same amount of space!

 

Look, it's a good idea. By curving the walls the overall width of the stateroom can be reduced, but still allow room to walk around.

 

But make no mistake, it was done to allow more staterooms to be fit in the same amount of space. Why? Because the cruise industry is extremely competitive. If you are going to make money, you need to lower your cost structure below your competitor's. Smaller, but still functional staterooms, seems to be a good way to lower your cost structure.

 

You may want to challenge my conclusion, but I guarantee that a two stateroom module, which despite the wave is actually rectangular, is smaller than the old two stateroom module.

 

Taking the next step in logic...Where does this loss of width cause the most problem for the designers. The bathroom area of course. The answer? Separate the toilet and shower and use the hallway for the dressing area! Throw in a curtain and voilà -- problem solved.

 

Just one remaining problem....How do you convince the masses that this smaller cabin without a private dressing area is an improvement?

 

So far it looks as though about half have been convinced and about half have not.

 

For me, I don't think the bathroom layout would be a problem unless you were traveling with a non family member. Even then, I think with a little cooperation and planning all would be good. Certainly, this must be the conclusion that NCL came to when the decided to go with the new layout.

[sjbdtz]

Why did NCL innovate the wave stateroom?

 

To please passengers? To provide a better passenger experience?

 

Because it looks modern, chic & elegant.

 

But make no mistake, it was done to allow more staterooms to be fit in the same amount of space.

 

That may be an ancillary benefit, but I wouldn't expect it was the primary reason.

 

Why? Because the cruise industry is extremely competitive. If you are going to make money, you need to lower your cost structure below your competitor's.

 

That's not true. Apple's cost structure is higher than a beige-box PC manufacturer, but then...so is their price. To make money, you need to lower your cost structure below your revenue, not below your competitor.

 

You may want to challenge my conclusion, but I guarantee that a two stateroom module, which despite the wave is actually rectangular, is smaller than the old two stateroom module.

 

I do. I'd like to understand on what basis you can 'guarantee' this, and what are the terms of your guarantee? What are you offering...if you're wrong?

 

 

Taking the next step in logic...Where does this loss of width cause the most problem for the designers. The bathroom area of course. The answer? Separate the toilet and shower and use the hallway for the dressing area! Throw in a curtain and voilà -- problem solved.

 

I think that this is definately a trick to maximize the perception of space in the new cabins, but I don't necessarily think it's tied to a smaller overall space. I also think it's a good idea.

 

 

Interesting.

[mickeysgal]

There is a special kind of glass that with the flick of a switch goes from tranparent to obscure. It is used around here in upscale homes in the master bathroom, often for the window which may overlook a backyard. It can also be used on showers and other types of doors when you want it to be clear most of the time to make the room look more spacious but obscure sometimes for privacy. Some upscale modern hotels and restaurants are using it on the doors to the toilets. If the toilet is unoccupied the glass is clear, when the lock is turned, the glass becomes obscure. Perhaps that is what they have used for these showers.

 

http://www.smartglass.co.za/privacyGlass.asp

 

http://www.inhabitat.com/2006/02/19/super-smart-privacy-glass/

 

Very pretty, but it seems like a very unnecessary and expensive option for every stateroom.

[Mooder]

In every architectural rendering and schematic I've seen, the door opens right into the cabin. /Size]

 

But if you've dressed or put a robe on before stepping right into the cabin, how is it different from the stepping out of the bathrooms the way the are on current ships?? Somehow or other you have to leave the bathroom in a manner of dress that you deem decent for your fellow traveller to see. No different from how it is now. :confused: