Please Don't Crusify Me, But Where Does NCL States This...

[sc425]

I will be taking my first NCL Cruise in October. I find Cruise Critic to be very insightful and informative, not to mention comforting. Yet, time after time I read that certain entities are not a part of the service charge of $12.00/day/per person. Namely, room service, butlers and concierge. I have done my due diligence and have not found anything to support this on NCL.com. Could this be a rumor? I ask for your kindness in advance... enlighten me as to where this policy is posted. Thank you!

[njhorseman]

I will be taking my first NCL Cruise in October. I find Cruise Critic to be very insightful and informative, not to mention comforting. Yet, time after time I read that certain entities are not a part of the service charge of $12.00/day/per person. Namely, room service, butlers and concierge. I have done my due diligence and have not found anything to support this on NCL.com. Could this be a rumor? I ask for your kindness in advance... enlighten me as to where this policy is posted. Thank you!

 

 

From NCL FAQs (in particular note the last paragraph I have put in bold print):

 

http://www.ncl.com/nclweb/cruiser/cmsPages.html?pageId=FAQ#tipping

What about Tipping?

Guests should not feel obliged to offer a gratuity for good service. However, all of our staff are encouraged to "go the extra mile," and so they are permitted to accept cash gratuities entirely at the discretion of our guests who wish to acknowledge particular staff members for exceptional or outstanding service. In other words, there is genuinely no need to tip but you should feel free to do so if you have a desire to acknowledge particular individuals.

Also, certain staff positions provide service on an individual basis to only some guests. We encourage those guests to acknowledge good service from these staff members with appropriate gratuities. For example, for guests purchasing bar drinks the recommended gratuity is 15 percent. For guests purchasing spa treatments the recommended gratuity is 18 percent. Similarly, for guests using concierge and butler services, we recommend they consider offering a gratuity commensurate with services rendered

[Toyz711]

room service is included...as is any food service.

butler and concierge would not be because not everyone uses them.

bar service, butler, concierge are service not everyone uses, therefore not included in the DSC. same with those in the kid's program.

[sc425]

I appreciate your reply, I have also read this. This is my problem, I know that there is a gratuity added to bar and spa services. Yet, the NCL post you quoted would lead one to believe that there was none. If I tip the bar tender or spa provider, I would be double tipping, since they have an automatic gratuity added to their services. Now, take this further to include room service, butler and concierge. No where on NCL does it state that these services are excluded from the mandatory $12.00/day/per/person tip pool. I must state, I am in agreement to the mandatory/optional/whatever/ $12.00 /day tip pool, makes my life easier. I am beginning to believe that there are rumors perpetuated on this site that go unquetioned. Okay, shoot me now...

[sc425]

Please show where room service and kids programs are explicitly excluded. I can not find it anywhere on NCL. And I mean explicit. I will not use many of the services provided my NCL, yet I know I will support them with my daily service charge, which I do not have a problem doing.

[njhorseman]

I appreciate your reply, I have also read this. This is my problem, I know that there is a gratuity added to bar and spa services. Yet, the NCL post you quoted would lead one to believe that there was none. If I tip the bar tender or spa provider, I would be double tipping, since they have an automatic gratuity added to their services. Now, take this further to include room service, butler and concierge. No where on NCL does it state that these services are excluded from the mandatory $12.00/day/per/person tip pool. I must state, I am in agreement to the mandatory/optional/whatever/ $12.00 /day tip pool, makes my life easier. I am beginning to believe that there are rumors perpetuated on this site that go unquetioned. Okay, shoot me now...

 

Yes they add the 15/18% bar/spa tip automatically on the bill so you don't have to add anything additional unless you desire. Just where are they adding the gratuity for the butler and concierge? Got the picture? Let me requote the last sentence:

 

Similarly, for guests using concierge and butler services, we recommend they consider offering a gratuity commensurate with services rendered .

[Toyz711]

room service isn't excluded...it's part of the food service. everyone just suggests you add a dollar or so.

best way to get a clear answer, go on your next cruise and ask the crew.

spa is not part of the regular crew, they are a separate company.

what you really need is the break down of who is crew and who is not.

[sc425]

Okay, and here are the key words, recommend. They also recommend we tip known entities who we know are receiving tips! If I ran NCL I would definitely state that the room service, concierge and butler were excluded from the service charge and tip pool, and should be tipped accordingly. They do not! Therefore I am very suspect. I can't believe I'm the first person to bring this up.

[Toyz711]

at one point, there was a list of who was included and to what percentage. it's been away since it's been posted.

[beachchick]

sc425: Okay then, tip those you want to tip; don't tip those you don't want to tip. It's clear as day to me that they are specifically stating that the butlers and concierges are not part of the tip pool and therefore, if you use the services of a butler or concierge, tipping as appropriate is encouraged. Most of us tip a $1 or for room service because those servers are not necessarily part of the tip pool and because they go out of their way to give good service running around the ship. I don't know if there is any place that NCL mentions tipping the children's club crew, so I can't answer that.

 

The bottom line is that this is what I'm getting out of your repeated "show me a document stating...": Unless NCL has stated specifically in a written policy that tipping is normal for a particular service or crew member, you take that to mean that those people should not be tipped or you will use that to justify why you don't tip them. If you don't tip, then don't, but don't try to get most of us here to buffer your rationalizations. The only real improvement they could make in the wording would be to mention that the bar service and spa tips are now automatically included, so they are no longer merely "encouraged."

 

The butlers and concierges are not part of the service charge pool. It's not a rumor, it's the truth. NCL says so, they say so (and no, they're not prone to lie if they want to keep their jobs), and we say so from experience. You can believe NCL (and us) or not. If you want to continue to insist that it's a "rumor" because NCL doesn't state: "This is an exact list of the crew covered by the service charge; this is an exact list of the crew who are not and who you should tip separately," fine. We obviously can't change your mind.

 

beachchick

[bakerintn]

If you want the real "official policy" on this matter, read your cruise contract. If you find that wording unacceptable, contact NCL Headquarters with your idea of improved wording. None of us here can change the NCL wording on anything.

 

 

This board, like any other, is an "opinion" board and a place to share actual experiences....it serves a purpose, but not the one you are chasing.

[MrLee]

I have no problem tipping, but come on, room service!

 

 

If you were staying in a hotel, wouldn't you tip room service? :confused:

[bakerintn]

And....forget the idea of a "tip pool", like in a restaurant.

 

NCL has an employee incentive prorgam for shipboard personnel which is funded largely by the daily service charge. The money supports the incentive program, which, I believe then provides monetary and in-kind incentive rewards for long-term and team performance. The staff does not get a fat envelope at the end of each cruise, but does get performance points and deducts on each cruise. The passenger comment cards are a part of the plus / minus points as are documented complaints.

 

I have never seen anything in writing from NCL that says that butlers or concierge are excluded from the incentive program...the suggestion for a tip to recoginize good personal service in my mind is just to give them more immediate feedback and reward. The spa staff are excluded as are the doctor and staff since they are independent contractors. Same goes for most of the entertainers, NCL U presenters and the like. The bar gratuity is split between the bar tender and the server...I understand that they are on a salary draw program against commission with a monthly quota of sales.

 

Overall, it is a very complicated pay / incentive program that we don't need to understand. We take the cruise with the understanding that there will be a daily service charge and a bar auto gratuity and therefore there is no need to tip anyone else unless one wants to. It sort of like sales taxes....we don't really get a say, we accept it and go along with it. At least most of us do.

[Don Haynes]

Tipping can be confusing when its not stated in black and white on a piece of paper. However, common sense should be included as well. For example, I tip the young man who carries out my bag and places my bags in my car's trunk fifty cents to a dollar depending on how many bags I buy. When he dropped a bag which had eggs he offered to replace the eggs out of his own pocket. On the other hand I doubt he would have been so nice if I had stiffed him every time in the past..... Common sense enters into the equation too....

[coka]

Very good answers to the OP's question. I usually tip what I would want to get if I was doing that particular job or providing a particular service.

 

coka

[uneamie]

Hmm....I would have to say "get it from the horses mouth". When you board the ship for the first time, ask a butler how the tipping works for him or her.

 

Ask around and find your "facts" from those in the know. On this board you will get a mixture of fact and fiction.....most "well meaning" and helpful but not everyone gets their facts straight.

[cynbar]

To the OP: I think a little common sense should apply here, and that might make the answer more clear for you. All passengers pay the same $12/day service charge, whether they are in a full suite or the smallest inside cabin. This is meant to cover services utilized by all passengers: stewards, food service including waiters and busboys and buffet staff. All cruisers have their cabins cleaned, and they eat somewhere on the ship. Other services are only utilized by some cruisers: bar waiters, spa workers, butlers and concierges. Therefore, those who use them tip extra for those services as they are utilized. Why would it make sense to include those extras in the daily service charge, and further dilute it?? By the way, we were in a suite on our last NCL cruise, and we tipped the butler and concierge based on how much we used them. If we had not used them, we probably would not have tipped them. Sounds simple enough to me--- everyone on a ship should tip for the services they use, not for those they don't.

[smeyer418]

The Butlers, Concierge and Kids crew are not part of the pool. They are an example of people who provide service to a limited group of people and who people should/can tip in accordance with how much they use them. NCL in their example gives Butlers and Concierge as examples of this type of service.

Room service is another issue. On some lines the tips ARE included in the daily service charge for room service(Cunard and Princess) but I still give a buck or two since not everybody uses them.

The Bar staff and Spa staff aren't part of it either. Some of the language problem on the NCL site is the attempt to use one set of words to cover both NCL and NCL America(the one American Flagged ship) where the "rules" are sightly different.

This isn't brain surgery its very simple the daily service charge includes the traditionally tipped employees. Those employees are the waiter/waitress, bus person assistant waiter head waiter in the dining room, and your cabin cleaning staff. What the daily service charge does is also tip the traditionally tipped out staff(the staff that this group of employees used to be sort of required to tip out of that money-the maitre d- the line cooks- the laundry staff which serviced the traditionally tip staff). When you leave the daily service charge on and give extra to the traditionally tipped staff they can keep all the extra and don't have to share it or tip out extra because that has already been worked out to everyone(but maybe your) satisfaction. the crew really prefers the auto tip(in whatever form that cruise line has it) to the traditional method where a fair number of people stiffed the hardworking crew for no reason other than they were cheap cheap cheap(if the shoe fits...). I have no problem adjusting the tips when there is a service problem but the idea of only tipping those you find deserving doesn't work anyway- the crew still had to tip out the others. I doubt you ever worked at a major restaurant where the tipping out took place.

 

The Butler, Concierge and Kids crew were NEVER a part of the traditionally tipped staff anyway. Kids crew is a relatively new phenomenon, and us have access to Butlers and Concierge is something totally new. People who had butlers used to bring them along and not had them supplied by the cruise line.

 

Finally I too find that most- not all- people who ask this question in this way are looking for an excuse NOT to leave the daily tip and to leave less than the universally suggested amount. There are times when people are truly confused and novices and ask a reasonable question- which I mostly(not all the time) answer civilly but mostly they are looking for an excuse. If you have access to a butler and concierge you are normally paying top dollar and paying extra for their services is mostly expected(by tipping them)...If you can't afford that take a less expensive room without access to them and then it isn't an issue. If you bring you kids and use the kids crew likewise(although I do think when they raised the daily rate for them they should have included the kids crew in the pool)....

[sc425]

Thank you for all the good replies! I agree with the common sense approach to tipping and also, "getting it from the horse's mouth." I feel that Don Haynes gets the real reason for this post. There is too much fiction here on Cruise Critic. I know this is an opinion based board. but as someone new to NCL, there is too much conflicting opinion on these posts being touted as "Fact." As seen in this thread, the list of employees who "are not part of the tip pool" keeps growing. I have yet to hear about the casino workers. If what some say is true, then they would also be excluded. Do you see why I would like some clarification from NCL, not just the opinions here on the board.

 

Thank you

[MrLee]

Thank you for all the good replies! I agree with the common sense approach to tipping and also, "getting it from the horse's mouth." I feel that Don Haynes gets the real reason for this post. There is too much fiction here on Cruise Critic. I know this is an opinion based board. but as someone new to NCL, there is too much conflicting opinion on these posts being touted as "Fact." As seen in this thread, the list of employees who "are not part of the tip pool" keeps growing. I have yet to hear about the casino workers. If what some say is true, then they would also be excluded. Do you see why I would like some clarification from NCL, not just the opinions here on the board.

 

Thank you

 

Of course casino employees are excluded. Different company. My next booking is through them and they'll probably be tipped well since I saved a very nice sum on that booking. :D

[rsohn65820]

If you were staying in a hotel, wouldn't you tip room service? :confused:

 

Yes I would, but a hotel doesn't charge me a DSC to be divided up among the housekeeping staff and bell Hops and kitchen staff at a hotel you tip each seperately. On the ship the person that delivers the room service is kitchen staff that are a part of the DSC pool. If you want to tip them extra you should, but some people on here make it seem like it is expected and that you are cheap and cheating the workers if you don't tip room service.

[mpk218]

The Butlers, Concierge and Kids crew are not part of the pool. They are an example of people who provide service to a limited group of people and who people should/can tip in accordance with how much they use them. NCL in their example gives Butlers and Concierge as examples of this type of service.

Room service is another issue. On some lines the tips ARE included in the daily service charge for room service(Cunard and Princess) but I still give a buck or two since not everybody uses them.

The Bar staff and Spa staff aren't part of it either. Some of the language problem on the NCL site is the attempt to use one set of words to cover both NCL and NCL America(the one American Flagged ship) where the "rules" are sightly different.

This isn't brain surgery its very simple the daily service charge includes the traditionally tipped employees. Those employees are the waiter/waitress, bus person assistant waiter head waiter in the dining room, and your cabin cleaning staff. What the daily service charge does is also tip the traditionally tipped out staff(the staff that this group of employees used to be sort of required to tip out of that money-the maitre d- the line cooks- the laundry staff which serviced the traditionally tip staff). When you leave the daily service charge on and give extra to the traditionally tipped staff they can keep all the extra and don't have to share it or tip out extra because that has already been worked out to everyone(but maybe your) satisfaction. the crew really prefers the auto tip(in whatever form that cruise line has it) to the traditional method where a fair number of people stiffed the hardworking crew for no reason other than they were cheap cheap cheap(if the shoe fits...). I have no problem adjusting the tips when there is a service problem but the idea of only tipping those you find deserving doesn't work anyway- the crew still had to tip out the others. I doubt you ever worked at a major restaurant where the tipping out took place.

 

The Butler, Concierge and Kids crew were NEVER a part of the traditionally tipped staff anyway. Kids crew is a relatively new phenomenon, and us have access to Butlers and Concierge is something totally new. People who had butlers used to bring them along and not had them supplied by the cruise line.

 

Finally I too find that most- not all- people who ask this question in this way are looking for an excuse NOT to leave the daily tip and to leave less than the universally suggested amount. There are times when people are truly confused and novices and ask a reasonable question- which I mostly(not all the time) answer civilly but mostly they are looking for an excuse. If you have access to a butler and concierge you are normally paying top dollar and paying extra for their services is mostly expected(by tipping them)...If you can't afford that take a less expensive room without access to them and then it isn't an issue. If you bring you kids and use the kids crew likewise(although I do think when they raised the daily rate for them they should have included the kids crew in the pool)....

 

Just for the record , I just came off of a Princess ship and they add a $3. tip to your bill for each room service delivery . I wish I had know since I was tipping $3. cash every time .

So there ya go ....

next

[*Wink*]

Thank you for all the good replies! I agree with the common sense approach to tipping and also, "getting it from the horse's mouth." I feel that Don Haynes gets the real reason for this post. There is too much fiction here on Cruise Critic. I know this is an opinion based board. but as someone new to NCL, there is too much conflicting opinion on these posts being touted as "Fact." As seen in this thread, the list of employees who "are not part of the tip pool" keeps growing. I have yet to hear about the casino workers. If what some say is true, then they would also be excluded. Do you see why I would like some clarification from NCL, not just the opinions here on the board.

 

Thank you

I guess the difference is, some of us aren't confused about it, and your confusion doesn't change our clarity.

 

I think it's been explained quite clearly by many posters here. Everything is covered for the services that are shared by ALL on the ship. The other services are not. I guess I just don't see what's so complicated about that.

 

I think your opinion that the postings on crusiecritic are not always factual is correct, but I can tell you (as someone who's not new) that MOST of them are. The reason is, someone comes along to make a correction, and then that's confirmed over and over.

 

Another reason, NCL insiders are members. They offer a lot of facts.

[lyndyb]

Thank you for all the good replies! I agree with the common sense approach to tipping and also, "getting it from the horse's mouth." I feel that Don Haynes gets the real reason for this post. There is too much fiction here on Cruise Critic. I know this is an opinion based board. but as someone new to NCL, there is too much conflicting opinion on these posts being touted as "Fact." As seen in this thread, the list of employees who "are not part of the tip pool" keeps growing. I have yet to hear about the casino workers. If what some say is true, then they would also be excluded. Do you see why I would like some clarification from NCL, not just the opinions here on the board.

 

Thank you

 

Have you tried calling NCL and seeing if there is a document or section on their web site that they could direct you to that would give the detail you desire as to who is included and who is not?

 

I've found CC to be enormously informative and I've obtained tips and advice that have been extremely helpful, but I don't take them as gospel. Some is based on the experiences people have had and we all know life can be inconsistent and things can change. Most people are well meaning, but their memory may be fuzzy or the facts a little flawed - but I take it as a starting point and then look into it further.

 

I've also encountered different opinions about something as minor as the position of a cabin. So when you're looking for something like clarification, I would probably go to the source if it's important to you to ensure you have the latest and most accurate information. By posting a request for clarification on a board that is opinion based, as you put it, you can't guarantee that it is accurate or current. That said, sometimes even the source can give you conflicting information.

 

All in all, CC is a wonderful way to improve your cruise experience and get information I've found nowhere else in such detail. So many people are so enthusiastic, helpful and kind. I use it as a guide and then check out the details myself if it's really important.

[Toyz711]

the casino is owned by "casino at sea", not NCL..therefore, their employees/dealers are paid by them, not NCL. since they don't work for NCL they are not part of the DSC.

the spa is own by Manadera, all the spa workers work for Manadera..not NCL. since they don't work for NCL, they are not part of the DSC.

same with the photographers, they work for a company that lease the space from NCL.

as you travel or cruise more, you learn this for yourself..as we have.

i don't know what rumors you are hearing or reading...but many of us are not confused at all. sounds like you are have been reading some of the anti-tipping posts that some people post just to stir up things?