This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

It's too late for a chunk of 2015, they will announce at least 6 months out due to cancellation needs.

 

A new ship gives a chance to set a date and have all ships adhere to the same rule as the new one.

 

Balcony smoking to me is much bigger of a safety issue than anything else and IMO any line that allows it is taking a massive risk of casualties. I'm honestly surprised insurance companies allow cruise lines to allow it, especially after the Princess fire.

The announcement is slated to be made in 2015 and go into practice with the new ship coming online.

I'm honestly surprised insurance companies allow cruise lines to allow it, especially after the Princess fire.

To be fair there has never been a final ruling that a cigarette caused the Princess fire. I do however hope for a decision of no smoking on balconies.

This is a diversion from the subject.

This thread is about tobacco smoking on HAL ships....

Au contrere. The thread is not about tobacco smoking at all. It's about HAL's smoking policy on its ships. Tobacco is one source of smoke, but a much more serious pollutant is the smoke spewing from the stacks.

Don't you think the foul smelling dirty smoke spewing on all open spaces on a ship from the stacks is a policy matter that requires attention by Holland America, at least as much as small amounts of smoke from cigarettes, cigars and pipes?

BTW, bunker C oil is considered a carcinogenic hazardous substance in California and is subject to significant regulation as to its use, emissions and disposal.

Au contrere. The thread is not about tobacco smoking at all. It's about HAL's smoking policy on its ships. Tobacco is one source of smoke, but a much more serious pollutant is the smoke spewing from the stacks.

 

Don't you think the foul smelling dirty smoke spewing on all open spaces on a ship from the stacks is a policy matter that requires attention by Holland America, at least as much as small amounts of smoke from cigarettes, cigars and pipes?

 

BTW, bunker C oil is considered a carcinogenic hazardous substance in California and is subject to significant regulation as to its use, emissions and disposal.

The distinction seems quite clear to me.

I don't see it the same way you do. :)

The distinction seems quite clear to me.

I don't see it the same way you do. :)

 

How do you see it?

Both involve carcinogens that can impact the health of innocent third parties such as you and me and both are governed by HAL's policies.

The way I see it, tobacco smoking on the balcony is an option by a third party and exposure to second hand smoke is accepted by the third party who knows, or should know, the cruise line's policies. Similarly the carcinogenic stack emissions are accepted by the passenger as a hazard of cruise travel.

In both cases the innocent third party is free to decline to travel on a cruise ship in order to avoid the ingestion of carcinogenic substances.

I don't see a distinction at all.

How do you see it?

 

Both involve carcinogens that can impact the health of innocent third parties such as you and me and both are governed by HAL's policies.

 

The way I see it, tobacco smoking on the balcony is an option by a third party and exposure to second hand smoke is accepted by the third party who knows, or should know, the cruise line's policies. Similarly the carcinogenic stack emissions are accepted by the passenger as a hazard of cruise travel.

 

In both cases the innocent third party is free to decline to travel on a cruise ship in order to avoid the ingestion of carcinogenic substances.

 

I don't see a distinction at all.

Oh stop. You're being purposely obtuse and argumentative and if not just plain thick headed. Do you really need it spelled out that this is referring to the GUEST smoking policy?

You see no distinction? Really? I don't buy that line of garbage for a second. Quit trolling.

How is he trolling? The thread is already argumentative. I can understand exactly what Sow There is saying. Wisps of cigarette smoke across your balcony isn't going to kill you.

What is coming out of those funnels just might.:cool:

If you take out all the recycled posts that say the same thing over and over again, just in case we missed it the first 20 times the poster said it - the page would probably be just that - 1 page.:D:D

Absolutely. I think I said this on one of the much earlier posts:)

one is produced to feed an individual addiction and the other is the make the ship go --

I do see some difference between the two :rolleyes:

one is produced to feed an individual addiction and the other is the make the ship go --

 

I do see some difference between the two :rolleyes:

And cruising is also an addiction - for some:cool:

And cruising is also an addiction - for some:cool:

You got that right! :D

And cruising is also an addiction - for some:cool:

I resemble that remark! ;)

I resemble that remark! ;)

Oh my goodness, Host Walt.

My father who passed about 50 years ago used that line. I haven't heard it in years. :) Thanks for the happy memory.

How is he trolling? The thread is already argumentative. I can understand exactly what Sow There is saying. Wisps of cigarette smoke across your balcony isn't going to kill you.

 

What is coming out of those funnels just might.:cool:

Fortunately, funnels project the smoke high above the ship so it doesn't come in contact with passengers on their balcony. It's a pity there isn't a way that the smoke from smokers' (which, of course, isn't essential to the operation of the vessel) can be trapped and sent up the funnels. ;)

Fortunately, funnels project the smoke high above the ship so it doesn't come in contact with passengers on their balcony. It's a pity there isn't a way that the smoke from smokers' (which, of course, isn't essential to the operation of the vessel) can be trapped and sent up the funnels. ;)

Now that would be nice:).

Fortunately, funnels project the smoke high above the ship so it doesn't come in contact with passengers on their balcony. It's a pity there isn't a way that the smoke from smokers' (which, of course, isn't essential to the operation of the vessel) can be trapped and sent up the funnels. ;)

That is a nice thought, however the black flecks on the upper decks would suggest the smoke might go up and away, the ash or whatever it might be doesn't.

Fortunately, funnels project the smoke high above the ship so it doesn't come in contact with passengers on their balcony. It's a pity there isn't a way that the smoke from smokers' (which, of course, isn't essential to the operation of the vessel) can be trapped and sent up the funnels. ;)

The amount of particulate matter that falls on passengers on open decks and balconies can vary from miniscule (or none at all) to relatively small quantities (that can be unhealthy to some), depending on climatic conditions (temperature inversions) and ship design, neither of which are under the control of the innocent passenger.

Fortunately we've occasionally encountered only very small amounts of black dust on our white clothing when sitting out on deck or on a balcony. The amount seems to increase as one goes further aft.

What we don't care for is the rotten egg (sulphur) aroma of the exhaust coming out of the stacks which we find to be more offensive than cigarette smoke.

That said, neither the occasional whiff of tobacco smoke (even marijuana) nor the relatively small amount of exhaust from the stacks can interrupt our enjoyment of any cruise.

In any case the impact of either smoke source is miniscule at worst and deserves far less animated discussion than other issues, for example, excessive inebriation encouraged by some of the drink packages and unsanitary practices of unthinking fellow passengers at the buffet.

In any case the impact of either smoke source is miniscule at worst and deserves far less animated discussion than other issues, for example, excessive inebriation encouraged by some of the drink packages and unsanitary practices of unthinking fellow passengers at the buffet.

Perhaps you should start some threads to discuss those things :)

The effect of second-hand smoke is absolutely NOT miniscule - tell that to those who have contracted cancer from second-hand smoke. My brother in law for one. He's gone now, unfortunately.

Our kids think we are cruise addicted, but we are in denial.

I shake my head in awe at all the comments regarding stack smoke and the dangers of bunker C fossil fuel emissions. There is no doubt in my mind that Sow There sincerely believes the hazard is significant.

However, I remain a tad skeptical. Even assuming it is as bad as they fear, we are just completing 594 days of sailing and I hardly recall a time when I noticed stack smoke or stack soot, particularly to the point it was irritating. I recall one time on the Nordam, about 15 years ago, being nonplussed by soot on the aft fan deck. Three months ago we were on the Royal Princess, there had been some complaining on C.C. about soot on the aft balconies of the highest deck. So for the heck of it I would check this out just about every day of the 19 day voyage. Never once did I see any soot or smell any stack smoke. In addition our cabin was at mid-ship on the second highest deck, and I spent a lot of time on the balcony.

Over the years, every once in a while, odors from a vessel's septic system creeps into the passage ways or are obvious in certain locations on the outer decks. I don't like that at all.

Back to HAL's smoking policy. Once again we are holding off on further bookings until this smoking issue plays out, we canceled a 31 day TA cruise with HAL for next Fall beginning in Athens. We still have three years to use our deposit though. If the smoking situation was status quo it would be okay as we really did not have that much of a problem with on board smoking on HAL during 220 previous days of cruising with them. However, the game has changed, they now have the only balcony smoking policy still in effect, as a result, it is quite obvious there is going to be a significant percentage increase of smokers on this line. If someone can convince me otherwise, I'm all ears. It isn't easy to just move on to another company when you have earned a lot of perks and are a four star Mariner with HAL. But we are doing just that right now.

It's so unfortunate that HAL is so behind the times with their smoking policy. I haven't been on HAL years and was looking at a Caribbean cruise on the Westerdam this February as the price was fantastic but then remembered they still allow balcony smoking.:mad:

We only sail in a balcony and I have irritant induced asthma (yes, a small whiff can cause me to have an asthma attack sometimes) so HAL is out until the policy changes.

I am also buying my parents an Alaskan cruise for their 50th wedding anniversary in 2016 and was considering HAL for this but only if the policy changes to not allow balcony smoking.

I was happy to find this thread thinking it meant the policy has changed. But alas, it has not.

We are strongly mulling a 49 night itinerary in Asia aboard Volendam for 2016. Between air fare, excursions, pre and post cruise stays, incidentals, and the cruise itself (undecided if balcony or a full suite; inclined to go for a full suite though) we are looking at a budget of roughly $45K, and frankly I think that will come up on the low side.

Do you think I am anxious to spend $45K for an experience with a company that can not sufficiently guarantee my comfort? HAL will have to reform their smoking policy to match what is commonly accepted as standard in the hospitality business before I will sign the dotted line, so to speak.

We will monitor changes, but if they do not occur soon we will simply choose another cruise line or another type of vacation. We are not loyal to any hospitality business so do not have much in way of loyalty perks, though we often will pay for a suite in order to have the amenities we want at the time we travel. We are more interested in seeing unique places.

I had sent an email to HAL asking about this policy and received a canned response that was almost offensive, as if I did not know how to read the current policy.

Best-

Steve

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Thanks.

I was happy to find this thread thinking it meant the policy has changed. But alas, it has not.

 

We are strongly mulling a 49 night itinerary in Asia aboard Volendam for 2016. Between air fare, excursions, pre and post cruise stays, incidentals, and the cruise itself (undecided if balcony or a full suite; inclined to go for a full suite though) we are looking at a budget of roughly $45K, and frankly I think that will come up on the low side.

 

Do you think I am anxious to spend $45K for an experience with a company that can not sufficiently guarantee my comfort? HAL will have to reform their smoking policy to match what is commonly accepted as standard in the hospitality business before I will sign the dotted line, so to speak.

 

We will monitor changes, but if they do not occur soon we will simply choose another cruise line or another type of vacation. We are not loyal to any hospitality business so do not have much in way of loyalty perks, though we often will pay for a suite in order to have the amenities we want at the time we travel. We are more interested in seeing unique places.

 

I had sent an email to HAL asking about this policy and received a canned response that was almost offensive, as if I did not know how to read the current policy.

 

Best-

 

Steve

And we DO spend this sort of money as we CAN smoke on balconies as HAL is the only main stream cruise line which allows smoking on balconies. ;)

I keep following this thread hoping as do others that HAL's smoking policy will change to guarantee non-smokers a smoke free environment while finding a way to accommodate those who must smoke on their cruise. Disappointed to find that smoking is still allowed on balconies.

We had one unfortunate cruise where the enjoyment of our balcony was greatly reduced by smokers from both the adjoining balcony plus the one next to it. So, we did our research and found an alternative line that meets our needs perfectly. Oceania accommodates smokers with designated areas, while prohibiting smoking in suites and balconies plus almost all other areas of their ships. We moved our dollars to them and HAL has missed out on 44 days of our business, plus what we have booked in the future.

If HAL changes their policy then we will re-consider as we find their itineraries interesting. Until then, if their business plan is to cater to the smoking minority then we will spend our holiday money with someone else.