Today Show (U.S.) piece on Venice ban on cruise ships

Just saw a piece on the Today Show in the U.S. about the growing number of local Venetians - and now some big name Hollywood stars - who wish to ban cruise ship access to the lagoon, canals and ultimately the port of Venice. They're saying the ships are not just an eyesore, but they may be doing damage to the foundations of some of the buildings. Obviously, the cruise industry disputes that claim. The reporter said there are plans in place to remove all cruise ship access to the lagoons by 2015. Not sure what that means for 2015 cruises departing from Venice. The Today Show also showed what looked to be lots of protesters in the streets protesting cruises.

Anyone else have more information?

This is old news, the debate has been shared on here for ages.

It may be old news, but this was the first I heard of re-establishing the ban come 2015.

When we disembarked the NCL Jade on June 7 the Captain came on the loud speaker (the day before) and urged everyone to disembark the ship quickly and be out of the port area by 10 am as a protest was planned for that day. We were off at about 8:30 am and went on an NCL post cruise excursion. Didn't see anything brewing at that time. When asked about it, our tour guide said he didn't think banning cruise ships the size of the Jade and smaller would ever happen. It would just be too bad for the economy. But that was his opinion. I guess we will have to wait and see. As we sailed out of Venice a week earlier we did see a banner hanging from a building saying, "Ban Cruise Ships."

It may be old news, but this was the first I heard of re-establishing the ban come 2015.

They suspended an "early" ban that the authorities tried to impose on larger ships earlier this year, but I think it has always been understood that a ban would come into effect in 2015....

The ban is not on all cruise ships. It is on ships over 92,000 tons.

I saw that segment. The ridiculous things that they had a bunch of big-name Hollywood stars like Susan Sarandon and Robert Downey Junior, apparently 60 in all, sign the petition asking to have the ships banned from the Guidecca canal. What they have to do with it I have no idea and must've been somebody in the industry who maybe has a home there who was supporting this initiative. One of their points was that the ships block the view. Well, I was just staying at the Hilton Molino Stucky and watched the ships go by and yes they do block the view for about five minutes and then they're gone.

I totally understand the ban if in fact the ships are doing damage to the fragile foundations. But to ban them just based on their size or their view-blocking potential is silly. I wonder how the Merchants of Venice, pun intended, feel about not having those 3000 passengers per ship coming in and patronizing their establishments?

They suspended an "early" ban that the authorities tried to impose on larger ships earlier this year, but I think it has always been understood that a ban would come into effect in 2015....

I heard they were going to revisit the law or suspension again in June 2014 -- this is July, so did they revisit it?? My friend saw a scroll on the news yesterday, but I never saw anything and there is nothing new on Google.

I heard about this ban and this is what made me pick Venice this year! I can't wait to visit in September!

There has been talk of building a new port down the coast to help preserve the foundations for many years now, at least since our 2007 visit, when we discussed this issue with our hosts at Al Ponte Mocenigo. We also were involved in a major demonstration on the lagoon on our sailaway last fall. (We ended up leaving an hour late after the police rounded up the smaller boats blocking the way.) There were still hundreds of people lined up just based San Basilio with great signage.

However, tourism still rules there so I would not hold my breath for this one!

I saw that segment. The ridiculous things that they had a bunch of big-name Hollywood stars like Susan Sarandon and Robert Downey Junior, apparently 60 in all, sign the petition asking to have the ships banned from the Guidecca canal. What they have to do with it I have no idea and must've been somebody in the industry who maybe has a home there who was supporting this initiative. One of their points was that the ships block the view. Well, I was just staying at the Hilton Molino Stucky and watched the ships go by and yes they do block the view for about five minutes and then they're gone. I totally understand the ban if in fact the ships are doing damage to the fragile foundations. But to ban them just based on their size or their view-blocking potential is silly. I wonder how the Merchants of Venice, pun intended, feel about not having those 3000 passengers per ship coming in and patronizing their establishments?

Appreciate so much the range and depth of comments, insights from Cathy. And, since Cathy is from California, it ties in even more. Many of these Hollywood celebrities travel by private jets, have three, four or five (or more) massive homes, etc. WOW, their depth of education and engineering experience in environmental and social issues really sets an example for the rest of us minor "working stiffs". When you see the headline "Stars of film and fashion join forces to call for ban on cruise ships in Venice", it makes one wonder which side is more honest, practical, etc.

We super enjoyed our sailing down this large waterway. Contrary to some media visual impressions, these large ships do not go down the narrow, more endangered canals of historic Venice. Loved this experience to sail-in and sail-out of Venice. Would hate to see it banned for us non-celebrities who cannot afford the luxury suites at Venice's five-star hotels. Below are two of my visual samples from our experience there.

If Venice is one of your future desires or past favorites, you might look at this earlier posting that I did on the Italy board that shows many options and visual potentials for this city that is so great for "walking around", personally sampling the great history and architecture. This posting is now at 40,265 views and I appreciate those who have dropped by and tuned in.

Venice: Loving It & Why??!!

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1278226

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

Did a June 7-19, 2011, Celebrity Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of nice visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 178,419 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

As we sailed into Venice, here is a tighter shot of the main square and the crowds that were there around 1 pm on June 14, 2011 . Next is another excellent view from that great sail-in to Venice and the sights of various interesting buildings and church. Love Venice so, so much!!:

Like issues we face in our own countries often the solution is not easy to achieve because so many who live in Venice have different views on this subject. Some do have crazy ideas but that is the same in many countries. Also others who visit their or who rent places have their own views. Often we each see this from only our own perspectives.

And yes the issue is not an easy one. It comes down to many factors including costs versus potential loss of revenue.

Again, easy for us to laugh about the arguments and counterarguments and the disconnect at times with their local politicians and the people in business but it's probably no different than if we looked in a mirror at some of the issues that our own respective countries or local governments face.

Thanks for having started this thread. I am sorry that I missed this segment on Today.

Keith

I love the fact that Hollywood stars for some reason feel the need to get involved :rolleyes:.

I love the fact that Hollywood stars for some reason feel the need to get involved :rolleyes:.

Last time I was in Venice, a guide said that Elton John bought a house and was complaining about the noise from the cruise ships. So, maybe he got some of his Hollywood buds to join the protest.

We sailed into Venice on the NCL Spirit in June. I was positioned at the ship's stern to take photos, and took a close look at our "wake". Our wake was basically nonexistent. I didn't see any wave coming off of the bow either, presumably because the ship was moving very slowly (maybe 5 mph or even less). Wakes caused by ferries and other small boats was much larger, as they moved maybe double our speed.

I also looked, both while there and later on Google maps satellite view, at possible alternatives. To continue to use the existing piers (very extensive, can hold maybe 6 large ships at once) but come in from the south rather than the east, would require dredging a new route, as well as moving a large power line. Both are doable but not necessarily cheap.

The Spirit, at 75k tons, is a fairly small ship compared to the Celebrity and Costa ships that were also there that day. And of course it may all change once Venice completes its tidal protection devices. There are extensive industrial ports at Maestre, on the mainland, so it's conceivable that ships will dock there and require you to take the train over to Venice.

We sailed into Venice on the NCL Spirit in June. I was positioned at the ship's stern to take photos, and took a close look at our "wake". Our wake was basically nonexistent. I didn't see any wave coming off of the bow either, presumably because the ship was moving very slowly (maybe 5 mph or even less). Wakes caused by ferries and other small boats was much larger, as they moved maybe double our speed. I also looked, both while there and later on Google maps satellite view, at possible alternatives. To continue to use the existing piers (very extensive, can hold maybe 6 large ships at once) but come in from the south rather than the east, would require dredging a new route, as well as moving a large power line. Both are doable but not necessarily cheap. The Spirit, at 75k tons, is a fairly small ship compared to the Celebrity and Costa ships that were also there that day. And of course it may all change once Venice completes its tidal protection devices. There are extensive industrial ports at Maestre, on the mainland, so it's conceivable that ships will dock there and require you to take the train over to Venice.

For our practical, solid friend from Kansas, don't let the "facts" interfere with political correctness and "save-the-world" spin. Those who are smarter (like by some in Hollywood with their ego, power and money) have decided what is best for us "little people". Your citing of the lack of any wakes or other realities are just more proof that the "elites" are so much smarter than all of us. That's why they have their private jets, luxury sailing crafts and multiple homes.

Great posting and thoughts. Keep up the excellent efforts with your brain and common sense.

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

Back from doing a 14-day Celebrity Solstice, Jan. 20-Feb. 3, 2014, Sydney to Auckland adventure on this ship and getting a big sampling for the wonders of "down under” before and after this cruise. Go to:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1974139

for much more information and lots of wonderful pictures on these amazing sights in this great part of the world. Now at 68,592 views for this fun posting.

Basically the "elite" are cruise snobs. It's just not the way they choose to travel- when they can rent a yacht for the week. The only din from the ships is Andrea Bocelli's "Time to Say Goodbye" playing during sail in. Get over it.

Hollywood stars can sign petitions just like anyone else - they are more visible, but their rights to sign petitions should not be dismissed because of it.

The view cruising down the canal is spectacular, but if there is damage to the city or the environment, then it should be banned.

People will still be allowed into the city to enjoy the beauty and culture. It just may mean a longer commute to get there.

Just saw a piece on the Today Show in the U.S. about the growing number of local Venetians - and now some big name Hollywood stars - who wish to ban cruise ship access to the lagoon, canals and ultimately the port of Venice. They're saying the ships are not just an eyesore, but they may be doing damage to the foundations of some of the buildings. Obviously, the cruise industry disputes that claim. The reporter said there are plans in place to remove all cruise ship access to the lagoons by 2015. Not sure what that means for 2015 cruises departing from Venice. The Today Show also showed what looked to be lots of protesters in the streets protesting cruises.

 

Anyone else have more information?

Wait 'til their economy suffers......But this idea of banning cruise ships has been going on for years.

I think this is great news. I love cruising but have always felt they are out of place in Venice and dwarf the beautiful city. They shouldn't be allowed and I wouldn't sail a Venice itinerary until they start docking outside the city.

Wait 'til their economy suffers......But this idea of banning cruise ships has been going on for years.

I think there are quite a few people who support a ban, especially if they build a cruise facility somewhere less fragile like Mestre. I should add that I support the proposed ban in spite of the the silly Hollywood stars, not because of them. :p

We sailed into Venice on the NCL Spirit in June. I was positioned at the ship's stern to take photos, and took a close look at our "wake". Our wake was basically nonexistent. I didn't see any wave coming off of the bow either, presumably because the ship was moving very slowly (maybe 5 mph or even less). Wakes caused by ferries and other small boats was much larger, as they moved maybe double our speed.

 

I also looked, both while there and later on Google maps satellite view, at possible alternatives. To continue to use the existing piers (very extensive, can hold maybe 6 large ships at once) but come in from the south rather than the east, would require dredging a new route, as well as moving a large power line. Both are doable but not necessarily cheap.

 

The Spirit, at 75k tons, is a fairly small ship compared to the Celebrity and Costa ships that were also there that day. And of course it may all change once Venice completes its tidal protection devices. There are extensive industrial ports at Maestre, on the mainland, so it's conceivable that ships will dock there and require you to take the train over to Venice.

The last time this topic came up -- as it has done periodically over the last several years -- I actually went and read some of the reports prepared by experts who have examined the situation.

To be fair, there is definitely damage being caused. And it is thought that it isn't the wake from the ships, per se, that is causing it. Instead, it has more to do with the amount of water displaced by these large ships as they enter and leave the lagoon. The water displaced is "pushed" against the foundations of the buildings. And according to at least one report, the potential for damage is even greater when the ship has passed by and the water rushes back (sort of like an undertow, I guess) at an even greater speed.

Keeping in mind these reports have been prepared by experts in various fields and not by celebrities or even causal observers on the decks of cruise ships, I tend to believe them.

While it would be less scenic and convenient to stop sailing down Giudeca canal and dock in a different area, I would rather that than see Venice deteriorate at an ever-faster rate.

For those who've said that people would stop visiting Venice because of this -- that's just silly. Cruise ships dock an hour and an hour and a half from Rome and Florence, respectively, and people still flock there.

I wonder how the Merchants of Venice, pun intended, feel about not having those 3000 passengers per ship coming in and patronizing their establishments?

Based on what you've written, you seem to be suggesting that the proposed ban on larger cruise ships in the Grand Canal is the same as banning cruise ships making a port call anywhere in Venice. That's simply not what is being proposed.

I'm not impressed with the Hollywood stars making their pronouncements on the topic. But I'm equally unimpressed with the argument that cruise ships have been traveling via the Grand Canal for some time and...

... individual cruisers don't see any potential for harm to the foundations of Venetian buildings because the wake of each ship appears to very minimal.

... cruising past the buildings of Venice is a very the special experience and shouldn't end because its such a special experience.

I don't know enough about hydrodynamics to offer any information about what is going on beneath the surface when we see the minimal wake of a ship sailing slowly. I suspect turbulence is something like the flash photography issue in museums, another recent thread. One cruise ship traveling carefully through the canal probably doesn't produce visible damage. However, multiple ships arriving and departing daily is likely to cause damage over time, even if we're not talking about immediately or in our lifetimes.

People cope with docking at Civitavecchia to visit Rome.

People cope with docking at Piraeus to visit Athens.

People cope with docking at Tianjin to visit Beijing.

People cope with docking at Laem Chabang to visit Bangkok.

People cope with docking at [fill in your most recent port call which required transportation to the prime attraction]

Admittedly, none of the above cities I listed above is costal, but the point is we cruisers cope with less-than-ideal port locations to see the great destinations of the world. If/when the time comes that Venice truly bans some/all cruise ships from the Grand Canal, there will be a reasonable alternative to the current cruise ship terminal in Venice. We'll grumble and we'll long for the unique experience of sailing in the Grand Canal, but we'll still take cruises with Venice in their itineraries. It's too special a place to ignore.

Wait 'til their economy suffers......But this idea of banning cruise ships has been going on for years.

An awful lot of cruisers spend virtually nothing in places like Venice.

Vaporetto tickets, port taxes, meals, souveniers, gelato, post cards, tours of the glass factory, pre and post cruise hotel stays, water taxi rides, train tickets to or from Venice. It helps the economy to have tourists come to Venice.

Vaporetto tickets, port taxes, meals, souveniers, gelato, post cards, tours of the glass factory, pre and post cruise hotel stays, water taxi rides, train tickets to or from Venice. It helps the economy to have tourists come to Venice.

Nothing in life is one-sided. The residents of Venice don't necessarily agree that tourism -- cruise or otherwise -- helps the economy. The cost of living in Venice has climbed beyond the reach of more and more residents. Here's a link to a 2008 senior degree thesis done by students at Worcester Poly in conjunction with the City of Venice:

http://www.wpi.edu/Pubs/E-project/Available/E-project-121208-112709/unrestricted/living_in_venice_project.pdf

Here's the abstract of the paper:

"This project revealed that Venetian community life is threatened by high cost of living and housing. Through interviews and investigations on quality of life in Venice, residents expressed concern that tourism was an underlying cause for the problems in the city.

One problem was the decrease in resident population. Venetians also feel that tourism is related to the rise of non-residential housing. Increase of non-residential housing, or vacation homes lowered the availability of affordable housing for Venetians."

Here's a specific example from the body of the paper: The paper said the cost of food [in 2008 was] 18% higher in Venice than on the mainland and that residents tend to shop on the mainland as a result. One woman said, "All our stores are becoming glass and mask shops. Pretty soon, all we will have will be glass and mask shops. We can't eat glass and masks."