Help with flight upgrade decision

Hello again everyone...as mentioned several weeks ago, our upcoming flight from Syracuse, NY to Barcelona for a cruise, connecting at JFK, has new, lower pricing in Business Class. If I may explain our current flight tickets and pricing, I have some questions as to whether or not upgrading makes sense based on the additional price, and, type of aircraft if any of you are familiar with it.

The short story is that we are flying on Delta next April in their A-330-300(3L3) aircraft.

Our flights from Syracuse to JFK, then JFK back to Syracuse are in small jets.

The flights from JFK to BCN and back are in the aircraft described above.

We currently are booked in Economy Comfort seats 12 H and J up and back and paid the additional money for the EC seats. Total price each person was $1,360.00

The business class seats per person round trip were at $4,120 each a few weeks ago, and are now $2,020.00 each per person which is half off.

It says we can upgrade our entire trip for $750 per person to this Business Class Section.

So, my questions are:

1...is this a great deal and, a no brainier and we should jump on this?

2...Are the EC seats we've paid for and chosen good enough that we should stay put?

3...if we did upgrade are we better of choosing the single seats against the window and sit one in front of each other?

4...or, do we choose the 2-seat configuration in the middle aisle of this business class section?

The fare class for this Business Class upgrade ticket says "z" whatever that means.

Thanks again for any help and/or advice/suggestions you can provide.

Dave

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I say it is a good deal, grab it.

As to where you sit...well, it will make talking with your traveling companion a little bit difficult, but it is an overnight flight, so you will be sleeping (better than in coach) so that eases the problem.

Or you can talk, and sleep, by selecting the center seats. The only time we had this first world problem was on a day time flight that we were awake the entire time, and yes, it definitely makes talking difficult sitting one behind the other.

"Z" is simply airline code for discounted Business Class fare.

Hello CruiserBruce:

Thanks for your comments. I am assuming if we take the 2-seats together in the center aisle, except for the very front seat and very back seat of the business class section, there is no advantage or disadvantage as to what row we choose?

Dave

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I would take that deal in a NY minute. You'll also increase your yield on FF miles, too.

In choosing business class seats, I tend to try to stay away from the galley end of the cabin, also the loos - too much foot traffic and light/noise from the galley. So middle of the cabin usually works.

Since the outbound flight is overnight, the windows won't matter. Instead, by sitting in the middle two, you each have aisle access for walkabouts or trips to the lav, without having to step over somebody.

"Z" is a discounted business class fare category (aka "bucket") that carries similar change/cancel restrictions to the fare bucket you're already in. On other airlines the comparable bucket is "I."

You might want to open an Alaska Airlines mileage plan account and allocate your miles to Alaska, a Delta partner (for the time being.) Alaska has different (and frankly more useful) partners than Delta, such as American Airlines, British Airways, Emirates, as well as many of Delta's partners (such as KLM and Air France) and Alaska's redemption rates are generally much more favorable than Delta's.

You might even consider looking at the Alaska Airlines Visa card (Bank of America) which could get you a bunch of bonus miles at signup (usually 25,000 - 30,000) and also gets you an annual $100 companion ticket, good on any Alaska flights including Hawaii, Alaska and Mexico. Combined with the Barcelona flights, you'd probably end up with 40-50K miles each, enough for a couple of domestic flights or one first-class round trip.

Thanks Gardyloo for the information.

The better half thinks I'm nuts to pay an additional $750 each for the Business Class seats and thinks we will be fine in EC seats we already upgraded too, so, I might just do it anyway and let the chips fall once we board. Since this is only our 2nd time flying even at age 60, I don't think she realizes that this small, additional price gets us much better seating, food, less congestion on the plane, free access in the Delta Sky Lounges at JFK for our 6-7 hour plane change waits, etc. all she said was..."The EC seats will recline enough for us to sleep on the way to BCN, and be good enough for the day flight back"

Go Figure.

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I am not a DL flyer, but have frequently been offered upgrades from economy to business for TATLs on UA for about $600 to $750. I have always declined.

You have to decide what is of more value to you. For me, $1500 is a lot of money and I'd rather have that to spend in Europe. You can buy a one day lounge pass, and you've already paid for EC. It's just not that long of a flight.

If this is a Z fare, I know that on UA if there are problems with your flight, you are not guaranteed to be rebooked in business, though this shouldn't be a major worry.

I think MrsDave is right.

Mrs. Dave is alway's right. I was thinking that maybe this one time I'd get a correct answer. Oh well. If a Delta continues to have issues filling the Business Class section even at this half off fare compared to previous weeks, maybe they might drop them a bit more. In that case, I might still have an outside chance of being correct over Mrs. Dave.

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Mrs. Dave is alway's right. I was thinking that maybe this one time I'd get a correct answer. Oh well. If a Delta continues to have issues filling the Business Class section even at this half off fare compared to previous weeks, maybe they might drop them a bit more. In that case, I might still have an outside chance of being correct over Mrs. Dave.

 

 

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Two grand for business class RT to Europe is a screaming deal; I doubt if it's likely to go down further.

It's your money, of course, but personally I'd look at some tradeoffs - maybe walk-around tours instead of a couple of cruise excursions, a slightly cheaper hotel for land nights, etc. Just me, of course.

One thing to note is that the return flight will be an hour or more longer than outbound, due to prevailing headwinds. Given the need to connect at JFK, it can make for a very long day, and daylight business class trips are way, way more comfortable than coach, even so-called "comfort" versions.

I see where purchasing a business class seat in Z is over $4000 each! If you want to take advantage of the lower fare, you should do it now. These offers can disappear at any time.

Business is better than economy and everyone should try and experience it at least one time. It's too much for me, but if you want to go for it, grab it and surprise MrsDave. She may change her mind once she's in the nicer seat and being handed a preflight drink.

Thanks again Gardyloo....all of your points are very well taken and make sense to me, especially since all of our cruise tours at different ports are all set with groups of 8 of us sharing the cost. The savings of not having to do shore excursions on our own would pay for the flight upgrade.

I also understand your comment about the additional hour flight from BCN back to JFK during the day. Even an Economy Comfort seat seems too uncomfortable for me. Plus, once back to JFK, we gave a 5 and a half hour layover before our flight back to Syracuse. Seems like the business class seat would ease, as you said, a very long day back.

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Hello 6rugrats... I could surprise her and by time she's on the plane and notices the new business class seat, it will be too late to get mad.

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Essentially this boils down to an "is it worth it" question.

Look at the benefits of business class over economy comfort, attach a value that you would pay for those additional benefits. Is it less than what Delta are asking? If yes then it isn't worth it to you, if no then it is. Simples.

If you want to cause a stir and the wife doesn't think it is then just upgrade yourself. My ex-wife who was mostly an economy class traveller until we'd met was soon won over by premium cabins. I booked all the travel and on one trip to Europe on the drive up to the airport she asked if we were flying business or first class. I responded with the former and her response was, "oh, nevermind". :D

Everyone has their own value system for anything in life whether that's for car, watch, house and this is no different.

If the business class ticket is fare class Z than this is an upgrade ticket. It is an economy tickets that allows you to sit in the biz section.

If everything works well, no problem. You've scored a great travel deal.

However, if there are IRROPS, and you need to be put on another flight you will probably be put back into Economy with no refund. Check the delta flyertalk.com section about this.

Be sure to read the Rules carefully.

Here is an excerpt from a similar fare from JFK to CDG:

NYCOGG-DL 27SEP14 *RULE DISPLAY* TARIFF 0011 RULE 9000

-FARE BASIS USD TAX TOTAL PTC FT

YUP 1597.54 71.16 1668.70 ADT NL

YUP/IN00 0.00 0.00 0.00 INF NL

YUP 1597.54 71.16 1668.70 INS NL

BOOKING CODES Y P C

PFCS MAY VARY BY RTG

INDUSTRY FARE TYPE - EU - ECONOMY UNRESTRICTED

FIRST TRAVEL - 6JUL14APPLICATION RULE

EXCURSION FARES

APPLICATION

CLASS OF SERVICE

THESE FARES APPLY FOR FIRST/COACH CLASS SERVICE.

CAPACITY LIMITATIONS

SEATS ARE LIMITED

ADVANCE RES/TKTG

RESERVATIONS ARE REQUIRED FOR ALL SECTORS.

WAITLIST NOT PERMITTED.

TICKETING MUST BE COMPLETED BY MIDNIGHT 1 DAY AFTER

RESERVATIONS ARE MADE.

NOTE -

VALID FOR TRAVEL IN FIRST CLASS WHEN AVAILABLE.

IF FIRST CLASS IS NOT AVAILABLE - FARE IS VALID

FOR TRAVEL IN COACH CLASS.

.

If I understand correctly...if I pay the additional $1,500 to upgrade, and am allowed to sit in business class, I should be alright unless the flight itself changes or has a delay/cancellation that puts us on a different Delta flight??? Where in that situation, I could be put back in a regular coach seat and be out the $1,500 extra I paid???

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If the business class ticket is fare class Z than this is an upgrade ticket. It is an economy tickets that allows you to sit in the biz section.

Yes, my mistake. On DL this bucket is an upgrade from a high economy bucket. Delta also sells "I" fares - discounted business.

However ITA shows a P/Z fare (first class to NYC, business to BCN) for $2022 in April right now. Note however there's an airport change - La Guardia to JFK and back - included at that price, so that explains the long layovers. Interestingly, though, if you book SYR-BCN using an Air France or KLM codeshare, you can fly into JFK directly - different regional operator. The Delta plane will be the same, as is the price.

Right now we fly from Syracuse to JFK then take flight 476 non stop from JFK to BCN. On the way back its flight 477 non stop from BCN to JFK. Then we go from JFK back home to Syracuse. So, for this business upgrade discount price, no airport change for us.

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Thanks Gardyloo for the information.

 

The better half thinks I'm nuts to pay an additional $750 each for the Business Class seats and thinks we will be fine in EC seats we already upgraded too, so, I might just do it anyway and let the chips fall once we board. Since this is only our 2nd time flying even at age 60, I don't think she realizes that this small, additional price gets us much better seating, food, less congestion on the plane, free access in the Delta Sky Lounges at JFK for our 6-7 hour plane change waits, etc. all she said was..."The EC seats will recline enough for us to sleep on the way to BCN, and be good enough for the day flight back"

 

Go Figure.

 

 

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There is no comparison between economy plus and business class!! I'll just bet once your wife flies business on an international overnight flight you won't be able to pry her back to economy!! Go for it!

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Hello SuzieKay...thanks for your positive comment. Not sure if anyone else that has tried to help me is female, but nice to get that perspective.

I think Mrs. Dave might be skeptical because as I've mentioned before, we are both 60, and this will only be our 2nd time ever on a plane. How bizarre is that? So neither one of has a clue about anything. She might be thinking about how flights were over 30 years ago when we were on a plane last.

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2...Are the EC seats we've paid for and chosen good enough that we should stay put?

 

"Good enough" is a very subjective determination. EC is better than regular economy, but it doesn't even come close to comparing to business elite. In EC you get a couple extra inches of leg room and a tiny additional amount of seat recline. I can't tell much difference in the extra seat recline though, and at the end of the day you will still be sleeping in an upright seated position, rather than a true reclining position, and depending on the seating arrangement, will still have a complete stranger sitting beside you just a few inches away. I won't even get into the differences in the pillows and blankets, amenity kits, food, and service, but if we had the opportunity to upgrade for $750 more and my boyfriend hesitated, I would be fairly disappointed. YMMV

Hello and thanks for your great comments. The $750, actually, $798 per person to go from our current EC tickets to the Business.

We paid roundtrip from Syracuse to Barcelona with plane changes at JFK, $1,224.00 each plus another $128 each for the EC seats, for a total of $1,356 each.

If I add $798 each for the Business upgrade, that makes it $2,154 each.

Seems pretty darn cheap to me considering this same Business class ticket just a few weeks ago was $4,140 each.

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Hello SuzieKay...thanks for your positive comment. Not sure if anyone else that has tried to help me is female, but nice to get that perspective.

 

I think Mrs. Dave might be skeptical because as I've mentioned before, we are both 60, and this will only be our 2nd time ever on a plane. How bizarre is that? So neither one of has a clue about anything. She might be thinking about how flights were over 30 years ago when we were on a plane last.

 

 

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The perspective of another female here ;)

I think you're right about Mrs. Dave's skepticism. I personally remember when we flew to Rome on BA a couple of years ago, we had booked Premium Economy but had the opportunity of upgrading at the check-in to business for $700. Having never flown either Premium Economy or business, I decided not to pay for the upgrade. Fast-forward to this summer, and flew to Europe and back in business class using my Aeroplan miles. Arrived home with the utter determination never to cross an ocean in a plane in anything less than business :D.

Here's a review of Delta's business class: http://hackmytrip.com/2014/06/review-seattle-tokyo-deltas-a330-businesselite/. As you can see, it's not just the flight, it's the lounge access, priority boarding and amenity kit. And there are videos on YouTube as well, such as this one:

Thanks for the information and video. I did happen to view both the video and the link on Saturday. I wish I could find more videos that don't whiz by everything so fast. Hard for me to grasp everything compared to all of you experienced flyers.

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Dave only you can decide if spending almost 1600$ more to get to Europe is worth it or not. Just like passengers on the cruise ship decide if they want a suite at X$ and enjoy some extras or if they want the base price ticket that includes basically the same transportation, food, schedule and entertainment for a much lesser price. I fall in the category with your wife. I love the idea of being in the front of the plane and it really looks amazing but when it comes down to putting my money down -- nope I will endure the economy with a little extra of economy plus (thus American airlines) knowing that the difference in price when over two people is a one way flight for my next trip. :D On the other hand, you have the money and life is short go for it.

Maybe someday I will talk myself into it!:rolleyes:

I would say your cruise example makes perfect sense. We've done all but one category on a cruise ship and obviously have a preference.

Do I want to shell out an additional $1,596.00 for a business elite seat? Even if money were no object I might not.

So, I will simplify, which I should have done sooner as not to drive all of you crazy.

Can't speak for sure as to how Mrs. Dave feels, but I only have one concern that would make me upgrade, and, that is sleep.

If you experienced people tell me that it's like heck to try and sleep, or, get any quality rest in an EC seat compared to a business/elite class seat, then the extra money to me is worth it. I'm 6' 1" and 197, but with severe back issues. If the way the EC seats lean back or don't lean back enough, along with the limited stretch room is that much worse than business class, I better jump on the upgrade.

I could care less about the food and most other things. I just want to be able to sleep well, if possible, and, stretch.

I guess I answered my own question.

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She might be thinking about how flights were over 30 years ago when we were on a plane last.

Think back to the level of service that department stores, phone companies, your bank, gas stations, insurance companies, your doctor, etc. etc. provided 30 years ago compared to now. Airlines are no different.

Ultimately though, I agree with others...it's a value decision only you can make.