Baltic cruises without St. Petersburg

Given the current situation with Russia, we do not want to visit there. Has anyone taken a Baltic cruise (a real cruise, not ferries) that does not stop in St. Petersburg?

Highly unlikely, given that St Petersburg is the must-see port in the Baltic.

Cruise lines & the vast vast majority of folk don't bring politics into cruising, unless they are obliged or co-erced to do so - such as the US policy re Cuba.

Safety is a different matter, hence the cancellation of the Black Sea's must-see port of Sevastopol and other Ukraine ports.

I doubt St Petersburg is going to become unsafe because of the situation in Ukraine, but a ban on cruise ships to SPB, by either the Russian or US/EU governments, I guess is a possibility

JB :).

Highly unlikely, given that St Petersburg is the must-see port in the Baltic.

Cruise lines & the vast vast majority of folk don't bring politics into cruising, unless they are obliged or co-erced to do so - such as the US policy re Cuba.

Safety is a different matter, hence the cancellation of the Black Sea's must-see port of Sevastopol and other Ukraine ports.

 

I doubt St Petersburg is going to become unsafe because of the situation in Ukraine, but a ban on cruise ships to SPB, by either the Russian or US/EU governments, I guess is a possibility

 

JB :).

Unfortunately Putin is bringing politics into it. Right now, it appears he has the goal of re-kindling the Cold War (please excuse the mixed metaphor). I am not sure how his moves are viewed in the European NATO-member countries, but the prospect is pretty alarming to us (speaking only for myself and my DGF).

Used a internet cruise company's advanced search engine and excluded St. Petersburg as a port and came up with:

10 day Aug 7 Windstar Windsurf; Silversea July 9th; and Ponant Yacht Le Boreal June 13. Note - I don't think any of these hit Finland or Estonia. But, they do go to multiple ports in Sweden and add a bit of Norway (without being a true fjord cruise, but are more Scandi in their focus). All are pricier than mass markets.

There were some others but they didn't hit both Sweden and Denmark which is what I used as my criteria.

We thought about if we would take the same cruise we did a few years ago, if St Petersburg weren't on the itinerary. My DW and I said yes we would. Just visiting those other Baltic Capitals, were thrilling, and if they included another couple of ports instead of St Petersburg, we still would have taken that cruise. Obviously we were thrilled to visit St Petersburg when we did, but for us, it wouldn't have been a deal breaker.

Cheers

Len

Used a internet cruise company's advanced search engine and excluded St. Petersburg as a port and came up with:

 

10 day Aug 7 Windstar Windsurf; Silversea July 9th; and Ponant Yacht Le Boreal June 13. Note - I don't think any of these hit Finland or Estonia. But, they do go to multiple ports in Sweden and add a bit of Norway (without being a true fjord cruise, but are more Scandi in their focus). All are pricier than mass markets.

 

There were some others but they didn't hit both Sweden and Denmark which is what I used as my criteria.

We have actually sailed with (and enjoyed) all 3 lines. The Silversea and Ponant cruises were expedition cruises and I did not look at their main steam offerings. Windstar we have only sailed to the Caribbean. Shame on me for not digging a little deeper. I have never noticed a true Baltic cruise without St. Petersburg unless it perhaps started in England or Northern Europe and hit those areas with maybe the Norwegian coast.

Thanks again.

The Silverseas cruise is July 2016. The other two are 2015 cruises.

Unfortunately Putin is bringing politics into it. Right now, it appears he has the goal of re-kindling the Cold War (please excuse the mixed metaphor). I am not sure how his moves are viewed in the European NATO-member countries, but the prospect is pretty alarming to us (speaking only for myself and my DGF).

The US and the UK and the rest of the EU stand together on the Ukraine issue. Different actions - minor embargoes and such, but all at around the same level. Putin has embargoed a lot of imports from the EU, i don't know about from the US, he's hurting the EU a little and his own people a lot more.

But neither Putin nor the West have brought cruising into the politics - Putin's not vetoed cruise ships, and ditto the western alliance for both SPB and the Black Sea port of Sochi. The Ukraine ports are off- limits purely for safety reasons.

Of course it's up to individual passengers to follow their own consciences, but it's a fact that you are in a tiny minority - if you weren't, the cruise lines would feel the pinch and follow the money.;)

Be a shame to miss SPB but I understand where you're coming from.

You could consider staying on the ship in SPB, some cruises visit for a single day. Yes, I guess your port fees would go into Russia's kitty but nothing else. And that would greatly broaden your choice of ships and itineraries.

JB :)

I would love to do another Baltic cruise that does not stop at St. Petersburg (not due to political reasons, just that there are so many other countries/cities in that part of the world that I would love to see if I go a third time).

That being said, other than some of the specialty/premium lines mentioned the only time I saw cruises to the Baltic without a stop in St. Petersburg was when the G87 summit was there a number of years ago. Perhaps if the situation escalates further you may see that happen but for now most cruises scheduled for 2015 continue to include a stop there.

Not a Baltic cruise, but very interesting Nordic Cruise on Seabourn:

http://www.seabourn.com/find-luxury-cruise-vacation/CruiseDetails.action?destCode=EN&portCode=&shipCodeSearch=&durationCode=&dateCode=6_2015&flexibleMonths=true&noOfFlexibleMonths=1&pageNumber=2&voyageCode=6537

You also may wish to check the Crystal itineraries. My memory is that there is a Baltic itinerary or two in 2016 that does not include SPB.

I am admittedly in a small minority on this forum, but on a recent cruise, I found SPB to be a relative disappointment and certainly a place where the sum of the parts greatly exceeds the whole. SPB undoubtedly has a number of extraordinary attractions, but I did not care for the city and the society overall.

I cannot say that I am sorry I went--I saw Russia and learned something from that experience. But I will say that I have no intent to return and in retrospect wish we had spent only two days there instead of three days.

Again, I know many disagree with me. But I can tell you that the reason we selected our particular Baltic cruise was that the itinerary included three days in SPB.

Of course it's up to individual passengers to follow their own consciences, but it's a fact that you are in a tiny minority - if you weren't, the cruise lines would feel the pinch and follow the money.;)

)

But if people don't take a stand then that condones it and, sadly, nothing changes. The 'might is right' philosophy is endorsed.

I wouldn't suggest people stay onboard if they are not happy with the visit. It sends no negative message at all to do so, and continues the economic support of both the cruise companies and the country that their actions are supported.

I was there in 1988 during the original communist era.

10 days Moscow and Leningrad.

What a trip

Bread lines

Black KGB cars following our tour group

Incredibly uncomfortable overnight train to Leningrad

Hall monitors in the hotels recording our movements

Meals consisted of a chicken leg

I asked for some appetizers at a cafe once and I got 1 olive and 1 pickle. Lol.

Great experience for me as a college prof.

I was teaching a geography course at the time and my students and colleagues were concerned for my safety. Lol

Saw the Moscow circus and loved it

It was a pleasure trip and anyone could book it. Not an educational junket like those to Cuba

One of my best trips ever!!

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I was there in 1988 during the original communist era.

 

10 days Moscow and Leningrad.

 

What a trip

 

I was also in St Petersburg (Leningrad) during the Soveit era. On a schools cruise in 1961, shortly after Yuri Gagarin had become the first man in space. They were naturally very proud of that, but life on earth in Leningrad was very different.

The streets had virtually no traffic and virtually all of it was military trucks. Of course they weren't actually military, they were delivery trucks etc, same as in any city, but they were all in the same military-drab colour and markings.

It was impossible to figure which buildings were shops rather than offices or residential - no large windows, no shop signs, and nil window-dressing. And the shops we were taken to each had on more than a dozen different products for sale. All very dour.

The only time we saw more than a few people was on the quayside, where hundreds of happy and excited school kids had turned out to greet us. Some practiced their English on us, none of us had any Russian to practice on them. :rolleyes: Kids are kids the world over.

One little by-the-by. We passed near the naval base on Kronstadt (ships now have to pass through a channel alongside it due to a flood barrier across the Gulf of Finland. Look out for it about 30 to 40 minutes from SPB, it,s fascinating and with an interesting history especially during thr Russian Revolution, google Kronstadt Mutiny).

We were told in strongest terms that we MUST NOT take any photos of the naval base.

Tell 800 kids that they MUST NOT ?

I guess there are now 800 photos of the place in dusty photo albums :) :)

The historic buildings are no different, and certainly not spoiled by being overshadowed by modern blocks as in most of the world, but SPB has a very different atmosphere nowadays. Bright shops, lots of people out and about, private cars and the same traffic problems as in most of the world's cities.

Yes, it's possible to tell that the city is Russian, ditto many eastern European cities, and even which bits of Berlin used to be in the eastern sector. But those differences are quite marginal - especially for those of us who'd been there in the days of the USSR.

I can understand those who don't want to visit due to political issues, though it's much easier to form a more-balanced opinion on-the-ground than from propaganda (yes, we in the west are subjected to propaganda too), but I can't understand how Reggiefan can have found SPB to be a "disappointment"

EVERYONE else who's expressed an opinion has found it to be a fascinating city.

Just MHO as always

JB :)

 

I am admittedly in a small minority on this forum, but on a recent cruise, I found SPB to be a relative disappointment and certainly a place where the sum of the parts greatly exceeds the whole.

This is exactly how we felt - although we weren't horribly disappointed. It just felt like we were running from one site to another in SPB.

Back a few years ago we went to Moscow (land with visas). Even though Moscow doesn't have near as many sites to see, we came back with a more favorable impression. I attribute it to not being able to freely wander in SPB, so we ended up just seeing places and things.....but, we didn't get to "feel" the city, it's people and culture.

John, I think I said "relative disappointment," and I meant that my visit to SPB did not meet my expectations, which were admittedly high.

A few reasons. As buggins0402 noted below, the lack of freedom in SPB without an independent visa to simply walk the streets and enter stores without our tour guide detracted from the experience.

But I found the people dour and the city depressing. I am sure that life there has improved over the last 15 years. But in Tallinn, there was an openness, a friendliness, that was absent in SPB.

And I still remember visiting in central SPB a farmer's market-type food market that featured meat and seafood that were visibly poor in quality and freshness.

I am not sorry that I went. On several levels, the visit was fascinating. But I did not like the city as much as I thought I would, and in retrospect, we could have skipped several sites we visited and seen what I thought after the trip we needed to see in two days.

I recognize that others, probably most, found their visit to SPB more rewarding than I did. Again, my summary is that for me the sum of the parts exceeded the whole.

Reggie...agree totally. The crown jewel of our Baltic cruise was Stockholm...it exceeded our expectations and except for a rainy day I'm sure Tallin would have also. Our pleasant surprise was Rostock, it greatly exceeded expectations (with an assist of the best weather on our cruise.)

St. Petersburg has realized the value of tourism. We were there in May and it was an awesome time. CNN and FOX have painted a picture that doesn't quite resemble what is happening - at least not in the northern part of Russia. I really enjoyed our time there. But just to show how everyone is different - we were equally impressed with Stockholm and really impressed with Copenhagen. Tallinn was an outstanding bore - maybe because we were on a Sunday. But as it is with any foreign travels, I believe people should travel only within their limits of comfort. If you are adventuresome cool. Remember it is your vacation and you should be comfortable and feel safe.

Everyone is different--different interests, expectations, levels of preparation.

A quick note to say we also enjoyed immensely Stockholm. There are many places in Europe I have not visited, but I found Stockholm to be the underrated city in Europe.

And finally, on our cruise, we had less than seven hours in Berlin, but found that city fascinating and intend to return to spend several days there.

It's very interesting to read how differently everyone reacts to various cities and places.

I really enjoyed my time in St. Petersburg and wouldn't book another Baltics cruise that didn't stop there. However, I will next time get the visa so I can go around on my own, which is my preferred way to sightsee.

But then I tend to like big cities where there is a lot of history.

The rest of the ports (except Helsinki, my other favorite) were "okay". I found Stockholm very underwhelming, except for the excellent Vasa museum (which was terribly crowded when we were there). I liked Copenhagen a lot but did not love it. Talinn was a bit like a movie set or a Disney park.

We opted not to do the long trip to Berlin -- a wise decision as it turned out, since it was the last stop and we were exhausted. But I walked around Warnemunde and saw most of the sights. I thought it was nothing special. Nice people but really nothing else to recommend it.

Buggins and Reggiefan, I know where you're coming from, seeing stuff on a tour rather than mixing and wandering.

It's part of the reason we're dedicated DIYers, preferring to use public transport, to wander at our own pace, to people-watch from behind a cold beer. Even though that means paying only a little uneducated attention to the "sights".

Easy enough in the other Baltic ports, but without a visa that 's difficult or impossible in SPB.

But there is just so much to see in SPB.

I parallel it with places like Paris or Rome. Iimpossible to see all their iconic sights DIY in a port of call visit, no time to also get into the atmosphere of the city and it's population. Only on a four-day visit could we relax as travellers rather than tourists.

And SPB has the added complications of an indecipherable written language, most folk have no English, and precious few westerners have more than a couple of words of Russian. We'd have been daunted by the prospects of SPB-on-your-own, figuring metro or bus or hydrofoil timetables or routes, let alone asking directions or figuring how to buy tickets.

So regardless of visas, we're glad we took the tour.

And it did rather demonstrate how much background we miss when we DIY. Not enough to convert us, but enough to seriously consider just a few tours in places that warrant one.

Yes, we all have different ideas, and ours are probably not a lot different to yours in most cases.

JB :)

I know what you mean John, for difficult cities (St. Petersburg would be difficult) it's easier to do the out of the way places if you are staying in a hotel on a land trip.

I guess my thinking is if I had only two days in Paris would I run out to Versailles? Even if I were staying in a hotel, I wouldn't. Yet the tours, rush you out to two far off palaces in St. Petersburg.

Cruisemom, it is interesting how everyone values different things. DH and I, probably take more of a "social science" approach to the cities we visit, where others love the history. Then there are the outdoor activity people, beach lovers, scenic beauty folks, and shoppers - all of which would come away with different takes on various ports.

One thing I've come to learn is just the weather we experience while we're there can color my view of a city. A few years ago we had three days of rain while in Munich, so we were stuck viewing the palaces we don't really care about. Ended up not really liking Munich, but, loving Berlin where we had fantastic weather.

Given the current situation with Russia, we do not want to visit there. Has anyone taken a Baltic cruise (a real cruise, not ferries) that does not stop in St. Petersburg?

Does this have to be a cruise? Getting around between two great cities of Stockholm and Copenhagen is neither hard nor expensive. You could also get a cheap flight between Copenhagen and Amsterdam. The other option is booking a cruise and staying on the ship when it's ported in St Petersburg. I am the opposite as my conundrum last Spring was making final payment not knowing if St Petersburg would be included. That would have been a deal breaker for us as St Petersburg was the most important port for us. However, your reservations because of Putin aren't too different from mine on Erdogan.

Does this have to be a cruise? Getting around between two great cities of Stockholm and Copenhagen is neither hard nor expensive. You could also get a cheap flight between Copenhagen and Amsterdam. The other option is booking a cruise and staying on the ship when it's ported in St Petersburg. I am the opposite as my conundrum last Spring was making final payment not knowing if St Petersburg would be included. That would have been a deal breaker for us as St Petersburg was the most important port for us. However, your reservations because of Putin aren't too different from mine on Erdogan.

our family of 6 thoroughly enjoyed our visit to SPB last June with ALLA tours.It was really the highlight of our Baltic cruise. I would not have taken a Baltic cruise if SPB was not included.

The very recent (and on-going) mystery submarine incursion into Swedish waters has raised the level of tensions and security in the Baltic. The prevailing theory is that the submarine was Russian. The search is continuing, but not a positive sign. We'll take a pass - with or without St. Petersburg. A lot of other places on our list and we have booked one in the U.S.