Since Carnival Took Over HAL....

Every so often someone seems to mention a negative experience on a ship and blames it on "since Carnival". For example - "Since Carnival took over HAL".....the food is bad, the service is bad, the dress code isnt enforced, etc.

RuthC pointed out in another thread that the acquistion was about 18 years ago (I'm not sure on that exactly, but it sounds right to me).

I wanted to point out that Carnival Cruise Line doesnt own HAL, it is the Carnival Corporation that does. Carnival Corporation owns several individually managed cruise lines, including Carnival and HAL. They also own Costa, Cunard, Princess, P&O, Windstar, and Seabourn. Each brand has its own identity and style, and attracts its own share of fans.

We've been sailing HAL for many years, and we've seen the ups and downs. I've also sailed on Carnival and decided its not for me, but I wouldnt describe any changes on HAL as part of a "Carnivalization". Yes, HAL has made alot of changes in recent years, but I believe this is more a response to the marketplace, economics post 9/11, and what they believe the cruising public is looking for.

S7S,

They also own P&O, Swan Hellenic, and a few others. This is from their website:

http://www.carnivalcorp.com

Carnival is a global cruise company and one of the largest vacation companies in the world. Our portfolio of 12 leading cruise brands includes Carnival Cruise Lines, Princess Cruises, Holland America Line, Windstar Cruises and Seabourn Cruise Line in North America; P&O Cruises, Cunard Line, Ocean Village and Swan Hellenic in the United Kingdom; AIDA in Germany; Costa Cruises in Europe; and P&O Cruises in Australia.

Eighteen years is accurate within a few weeks: the deal was finalized in December, 1988 and completed in January, 1989.

I don't know to what extent post-9/11 economics plays a part, but I suspect it isn't the whole story.

In the last several years the various cruiselines have expanded tremendously. They have to fill many more cabins and to do that must attract people who have never cruised before---even people who have never considered cruising.

In trying to be all things to all people simultaneously they have lowered standards attempting to please everybody. It doesn't work that way.

In trying to be all things to all people simultaneously they have lowered standards attempting to please everybody. It doesn't work that way.

I agree with you, Ruth. My comment on "post 9/11" is because most cruise lines had to considerably lower their per diem rates in order to attract passengers to travel following that tragic event. There was (still is) tremendous competition to fill all the new ships which kept those prices down. It was about that time that many cruise lines began to make alot of the changes (not all for the better) - these changes are to enhance onboard revenue - charges for things that were once free, elimination of other perks, and the introduction of new goods/services at a surcharge. The cruise lines had to find a way to stay afloat - OK, no pun intended - :) while offering competitive lower fares to fill their ships.

But back to your point, I agree that many of the new things introduced at HAL show they are trying to be too many things to too many people. I wish they would stay with traditional dining, and keep the other traditions that attracted us to them in the first place. There are plenty of choices in the cruise industry and most people should be able to find something that suits their own style. As my husband would say "that's why Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors"...

Hear, hear!!

I think that's the point--there are no longer 31 flavors.

Despots in charge of corporations like General Motors , forget their customers and get enticed by accountants and others into believing they can make more money by "mushing the brands together". Putting Olds engines in Chevy's--Olds went from the leading brand in USA to out of business.

Similarly-- Changing the tipping policy on HAL to match Carnival & Princess--- Changing the carry on liquor policy --etc-etc-etc, will eventually make all 3 lines seem pretty much the same.

As long as they keep Carnival out of the 10+ day cruise business , there will continue be a HAL that we recognize.

We all have to continue to stress to Carnival Corp that we like HAL and want a HAL that isn't a twin to Carnival or Princess.

 

We all have to continue to stress to Carnival Corp that we like HAL and want a HAL that isn't a twin to Carnival or Princess.

 

IMHO, have no fear on that point jercal10:)

 

Micky Arison "sort of knows" the right formula for success;)

 

have there been changes since all the acquisitions? IMO, of course

 

as for HAL, it continues to grow and expand .. if not for Teddy Arison and Kirk Landerman, HAL could have become Eastern Airlines, TWA or PanAm

Yes, HAL has been owned by Canival for about 18 years.

It wasn't until after 9/11 that we noticed some changes in HAL.

Most recently we have noticed a lot of changes -- some good and some bad.

HAL is trying to get more younger people to cruise on them -- thus changes are being made to attrack the new generation of cruisers.

Yes, HAL has been owned by Canival for about 18 years.

 

It wasn't until after 9/11 that we noticed some changes in HAL.

 

Most recently we have noticed a lot of changes -- some good and some bad.

 

HAL is trying to get more younger people to cruise on them -- thus changes are being made to attrack the new generation of cruisers.

The very same can be said of Television where executives think that anybody gives a damn what happens to Britany Speers or that group of half-wits that cover the tabloids. I think it is GREAT that "younger is better" as long as they don't forget that "Older has the time and the money"

Anne

 

I think it is GREAT that "younger is better" as long as they don't forget that "Older has the time and the money"

Anne

Ain't that the truth:D:D:D

fantastic comment:)

The very same can be said of Television where executives think that anybody gives a damn what happens to Britany Speers or that group of half-wits that cover the tabloids. I think it is GREAT that "younger is better" as long as they don't forget that "Older has the time and the money"

Anne

ROTFLMAO. :D

Now, if FOX would only dump that "old tape" of B.Speers dancing.......:rolleyes:

ANSaltberg

You are SO RIGHT!!

On our last cruises, we got the feeling that HAL was trying to forget about we older cruisers who do have the time and money.

I received the fabulous brochure of Grand Voyages for 2008. How many young families do you suppose will be booking the World Cruise or the 73 day Grand Africa Voyage etc? The changes they make to HAL which many of us feel are geared to only the " young 'uns " may not be changes that attract us to spend tens of thousands of dollars having anytime/anywhere you want dining; loud, blaring music; etc

I can tell you that Costa which was acquired by CCL has built there last few ships on Carnical bodies....which I hate.....plus that CCL designer Farcus has had more than I like of influence on the decor of the new ships......

I have never liked the farcus design of ships and was very sad to see his handiwork on Costa ships.

The alsoust recently brought some of the Cunard Captains to Princess for cross training.......

So I do think there are some decisions made across all ships even if they are managed separately.

Wasn't so long ago that Carnival ships didn't do 7-day cruises with the focus being the fun ship/party ship 3-5 day cruises. Then Carnival added ships and before you knew it they had 7-day cruises. Now the Freedom and Spirit do 12+ day cruises. So they there already, starting to compete, at least in terms of cruise length with their own corporate lines though still notionally marketed to a different segment of the cruise population. Having said that my personal impression is that with some exceptions, mostly the luxury/premier lines, most other lines are moving more and more to the center trying to be all things to all people. Too bad.......

I have some facts that you "HAL can do nothing wrong" people seem to be conveniently forgetting.

Ever since Carnival bought HAL:

(a) World temperatures have been rising and the ice caps are receding.

(b) There have been two ship disaster movies released.

© The Pope died.

(d) Tensions, Christian vs Muslim world, have increased.

(e) Pluto was affirmed, then denied, its status as a planet.

You die-hards always avoid these tough points.

:p

I've been using HAL for 20 years, which is pre Carnival and post Carnival. What you should know is that Carnival does not interfere with the lines it buys. Mickey Aronson and Bob Davidson are very astute business men and they know that if they made HAL into another Carnival that the loyal customers would leave in droves.

I asked someone from HAL what the differences were after being purchased by Carnival and she said "now we have clout". Carnival purchases fuel, food and other sundries in very very large bulk purchases and this is very beneficial to HAL. They also provided the financing for the four S class ships. This doubled the number of ships that HAL had.

Kirk Lanterdan also stated, in 2003, that Carnival had been out to Seattle twice and that they had never demanded anything. Any changes are due to normal market pressures and not Carnival.

If it had not been for Carnival HAL would probably not exist today. They would have probably been absorped like Sitmar or Home Line.

Yes, Carnival Corp has influenced some changes...

Before the purchase, HAL had contracts out with a builder for new ships: the size of the R-Class (@ 65,000 tons) but passenger capacity closer to that of the Vistas (@ 1800 pax). Once the purchase went through, CCL had HAL cancel those contracts and take the blueprints CCL had developed for their "Project Tiffany" ships to Fincantieri for our current Statendam.

If CCL had not bought HAL, you'd be looking at a very different line altogether...

As far as Costa goes, CCL had been looking for a way into the European market for some time & Costa was ripe for the picking. At least CCL bought a moneymaker rather than perennial money-loser, Celebrity...

They would have probably been absorped like Sitmar or Home Line.

Considering HAL bought Home Line before the CCL purchase...

...and Princess bought Sitmar oh-so-long ago.

;)

I have some facts that you "HAL can do nothing wrong" people seem to be conveniently forgetting.

 

Ever since Carnival bought HAL:

 

(a) World temperatures have been rising and the ice caps are receding.

(b) There have been two ship disaster movies released.

© The Pope died.

(d) Tensions, Christian vs Muslim world, have increased.

(e) Pluto was affirmed, then denied, its status as a planet.

 

You die-hards always avoid these tough points.

 

:p

YES, and another point: when Carnival bought HAL we were all of us younger, and now we have succumbed to the dreaded aging process. The aging process, for me, has increased exponentially since HAL and Carnival became one in 1989 (the year my oldest child was born!!) All of us posting on this board are older than the oldest HAL ship:eek: See what horrors are released when corporations tamper with the fabric of existence!!:) ;)

Karin

ps very interesting, informative, and helpful thread here. I appreciate all the background info regarding the merger. Thank you.

EVERY week on EVERY cruise on EVERY cruise ship we read about 500 comment cards that complain bitterly:

"Why can't you do this like Carnival does?"

"Why can't you offer that like Princess does?"

"Why can't you offer traditional dining like HAL."

"Why can't you have more restaurants like NCL?"

"Why don't you have soft serve ice cream like RCCL?"

"Why don't you have bars like Celebrity?"

"Why don't you have spas like Oceania?"

And the best one of all: "Why don't you ever read these comments and follow up on them"?

So now it appears that the cruise lines are paying attention and trying to satisfy the demands that so many cruisers write on their comment cards.

Shall we now tell the cruise lines to stop paying attention to all of those cruisers who are demanding that all cruise lines offer everything to everyone?

HAL is trying to get more younger people to cruise on them -- thus changes are being made to attrack the new generation of cruisers.

I think i'm one of the "younger cruisers" (i know i wont be able to say this forever)on HAL, but the attraction I have to HAL is because of the the smaller, elegant, more understated ships, passenger/space ratio, crew,food, service, fellow pax etc.

I enjoy having the same wait staff each night at dinner that remember my name and that i like tea after my meal (although they didn't remember on my last cruise :( ).

The changes over the last few years have been mostly subtle but put them all together and you'll notice things are different. Different for the better, or worse? For me it's the latter. I don't see any changes that would appeal to a younger crowd, not for me anyway.

I think most of us that lurk on these boards have come to love and pretty much expect certain aspects of HAL (myself included) and when things change some of us deal with it much better than others.

I was a bit upset after my recent cruise on the Westerdam, mainly in the food/service area. Did i still have a good time? Yes. Do I still love HAL? Yes. What have I learned?

Well, even on the same line, same ship, same itinerary, my experience will vary from one sailing to another. I can choose to sweat the small stuff, just like i can choose to make the best of my vacation.

Even with all the changes, I still get away from work, traffic, cooking, cleaning, laundry etc...how bad can it be?!

EVERY week on EVERY cruise on EVERY cruise ship we read about 500 comment cards that complain bitterly:

 

"Why can't you do this like Carnival does?"

"Why can't you offer that like Princess does?"

"Why can't you offer traditional dining like HAL."

"Why can't you have more restaurants like NCL?"

"Why don't you have soft serve ice cream like RCCL?"

"Why don't you have bars like Celebrity?"

"Why don't you have spas like Oceania?"

 

And the best one of all: "Why don't you ever read these comments and follow up on them"?

 

So now it appears that the cruise lines are paying attention and trying to satisfy the demands that so many cruisers write on their comment cards.

 

Shall we now tell the cruise lines to stop paying attention to all of those cruisers who are demanding that all cruise lines offer everything to everyone?

IMO - That's like someone complaining that his Ford Focus isnt as fast as a Mustang, another complaining that his Mustang isn't as roomy as a Lincoln TownCar, and someone else complaining that his TownCar isn't as economical as a Focus - and Ford responding by making all their cars the same!

Yes, the lines should stop trying to be everything to everyone and spend more of their advertising dollars not just selling cruises but educating the public and TA's what the differences are and what makes them special so that passengers can get the right cruise on the right ship.

IMO - That's like someone complaining that his Ford Focus isnt as fast as a Mustang, another complaining that his Mustang isn't as roomy as a Lincoln TownCar, and someone else complaining that his TownCar isn't as economical as a Focus - and Ford responding by making all their cars the same!

Yes, the lines should stop trying to be everything to everyone and spend more of their advertising dollars not just selling cruises but educating the public and TA's what the differences are and what makes them special so that passengers can get the right cruise on the right ship.

Well said Brian

"The aging process, for me, has increased exponentially since HAL and Carnival became one in 1989." (from middle-aged mom).

Geez! I hope I'm not aging exponetially:o . Chronologically is bad enough:D !