My musing on what could/should replace the Prinsendam

Who do you think will purchase the long-serving and high-quality Prinsendam.

An existing cruise line, or a new cruise line? Perhaps the creation of another single ship speciality cruise line?

 

 

?? Internal corporate transfer to Cunard?

?? Internal corporate transfer to Cunard?

 

Sail: No way Jose!

 

Prinsendam had been part of the Cunard fleet once.

Auch du Lieber - a German-speaking only ship:

 

Fremde Länder entdecken – Ausflüge mit Deutsch sprechender Reiseleitung

 

Sie möchten fremde Länder entdecken und sich die Welt ansehen? Auf einer Kreuzfahrt mit Phoenix Reisen haben Sie dafür ausreichend Gelegenheit. Die Liegezeiten in den Häfen sind so geplant, dass genügend Zeit für eine Entdeckungstour an Land bleibt. Besonders beliebt sind unsere organisierten Halb- und Ganztagesausflüge zu den schönsten Sehenswürdigkeiten auf Ihrer Reise. Ob Städteführung oder Wanderung in der Natur, in Zusammenarbeit mit unseren erfahren Partnern vor Ort bieten wir eine große Auswahl an Ausflügen, die Ihnen unvergessliche Erlebnisse bereiten. Schon vor Reisebeginn erhalten Sie einen Reiseführer mit Ihrem Ausflugsprogramm, aus dem Sie schon einige Wochen vorab Ihre Lieblingsausflüge online oder telefonisch buchen können. Auf dem Schiff und an Land werden Sie von unserer erfahrenen Phoenix-Reiseleitung betreut. Die Bordsprache ist auf allen Schiffen Deutsch und auch die Ausflüge werden bis auf einige Ausnahmen von deutsch sprechenden Reiseleitern durchgeführt.

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It's been too long for my 2nd year college German can read this. Once upon a time, I probably could. Would I be happy as a guest on such a ship? What do you think?

 

Guten Tag!

I suspect I am not alone in that thought and I also suspect HAL will lose a LOT of cruisers.

P'dam carries less than 3% of the cruise line's passengers. Even if they all abandoned the cruise line (which of course will be far from the reality) it'll be made up by a few months of voyages on Nieuw Statendam.

 

Lots of choices out there. If the executive want us to go looking, we can do so. :rolleyes:

Big talk.

 

There actually aren't "lots of choices out there" at the same price point. That's why so many are holding on so tightly. Those willing to pay more will go to Seabourn as likely as to a competitor and the same is true of passengers coming to Seabourn from competitors. Only a few will spite themselves by depriving themselves of the choice between all the options available to them.

 

This message may have been entered via voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

I don't think many here, including myself, will dispute that.

 

However I was enjoy a few minutes to ponder the "what-if" and dream :) Just think of a slightly longer and wider up Renaissance R-Class with a full wraparound promenade deck, lots of standard balconies (with bigger bathrooms!), a proper library and observation lounge, etc and boy would she be a stunner!

I’m sorry I misread your thread and didn’t realize you were writing hope. My bad! Sincerely. No snark!

Sammie, are you familiar with sailing on Viking???

I am seeing a cruise where the entertainment/past-times are lectures, talks, and their oft-touted 'books' and 'scrabble'.

 

But, yes, I could be missing something!!!

It's been too long for my 2nd year college German can read this. Once upon a time, I probably could. Would I be happy as a guest on such a ship? What do you think?

 

Guten Tag!

 

Very rusty myself but the best I came up with was sorting out the key words ... on both land and sea - German will be the language spoken on Phoenix Reisen cruises. Güte Fahrt!

Sammie, are you familiar with sailing on Viking???

I am seeing a cruise where the entertainment/past-times are lectures, talks, and their oft-touted 'books' and 'scrabble'.

 

But, yes, I could be missing something!!!

 

I've read that Viking's philosophy is no casinos and no children. But they are all about the actual travel -- the ports. They supposedly feature longer days in port and more enrichment.

 

That appeals to me. But probably not to everyone...

I've read that Viking's philosophy is no casinos and no children. But they are all about the actual travel -- the ports. They supposedly feature longer days in port and more enrichment.

 

That appeals to me. But probably not to everyone...

 

I have the very interesting task this coming Thurs to talk to a friend who wants to take a 144 day Viking cruise - London via Iceland/Greenland to Amazon and end in Los Angeles around the Horn. She wanted to talk to me because she knew I knew cruising ..... and this 144 day cruise will be her second cruise.

 

She previously did a short Norway on Viking and loved it so much, they now want to commit to 144 days. And unbelievably we met each other in port last summer while we were on the VOV and she was on the Viking Sun. That is quite a leap to go from a short to a very long. our own longest has been 56 days. Should be a very interesting conversation.

 

But while doing research on her proposed itinerary, I found multiple 2-3 day stop overs and several back-track duplication ports on this Viking itinerary. I gather this is part of the Viking experience. Two days in Boston and three days in NYC on this cruise, as well as other overnights and extended stays.

 

A very different ship and a very different cruise experience from my almost exclusively HAL travels, but being away for long cruises will be the same. Though my 55 days is not even close to her proposed 144 days. Looking forward to the vicarious planning, though this would not be an itinerary I would pick but perhaps mainly because we have been to most of the places on HAL and have not been interested in others. I also know how many places they are not going to as they go long distance globally on this one.

 

I might approach this same route differently and in separate smaller dose HAL cruises: VOV; Canada New England; South America and Amazon - there would be more depth, but far less luxury.

Sammie, are you familiar with sailing on Viking???

I am seeing a cruise where the entertainment/past-times are lectures, talks, and their oft-touted 'books' and 'scrabble'.

 

But, yes, I could be missing something!!!

 

Yes, we’ve done a couple. Viking focuses on ports, there is an included excursion in every port. Each evening there is a port presentation. They have a couple guest lecturers on every sailing, they call them historians.

They have trivia, daily I think. No bingo. Spa is free other than you pay for treatments. They have books scattered throughout the ship, I use a kindle. Most nights there was a show, we went to a few tribute shows. Cruise ship shows are of little interest to us.

The ship is gorgeous, almost perfect other than the pool deck. We thought the loungers were uncomfortable and they kept the retractable roof closed too much.

Very good to excellent food, excellent service. Beer, wine, soft drinks included with meals. They refill your refrigerator daily unless you are in the standard veranda. Penthouse verandas get alcohol in the refrig. Lovely crews. No art auctions, photographers and no shilling of junk.

Viking is worth a try.

Very rusty myself but the best I came up with was sorting out the key words ... on both land and sea - German will be the language spoken on Phoenix Reisen cruises. Güte Fahrt!

 

And a Gute Fahrt to you as well on your next journey!

I don't think many here, including myself, will dispute that.

 

However I was enjoy a few minutes to ponder the "what-if" and dream :) Just think of a slightly longer and wider up Renaissance R-Class with a full wraparound promenade deck, lots of standard balconies (with bigger bathrooms!), a proper library and observation lounge, etc and boy would she be a stunner!

 

Sounds like you just described Viking Ocean ships.

You do realize that you have no idea what you are talking about?

Of course I do. You just don't like it and don't have a legitimate response to it. The reality is that people will behave more like the market research shows they're going to behave rather than the way any specific constituent, such as yourself, might want them to behave.

 

I have the right to make my own choices. You cannot anticpate nor know what they are..

I didn't mean to imply anything to the contrary. You either posted a deliberately deceptively-worded post or were claiming to speak for "a LOT of cruisers" and "a number of people that sail P'dam" when in reality all of them "have the right to make [their own] choice" and "You cannot anticipate nor know what [their choices might be]." I will say that it was a nice try at deflecting attention away from posts you don't like. However, you really should avoid complaining about others speaking for others in response to a post within which you did just that.

 

As usual a lot of empty words here again, the Nieuw Statendam has nothing to do with the Prinsendam..

As usual, a typical evasion of the reality of business, that money is money no matter from which revenue stream it emanates. Every dollar spent competes with every other way the company can spend that dollar, and legally-required fiduciary responsibility dictates that dollars get spent in the best financial interests of the owners.

During the 2018 WC CEO Q&A chat with Orlando Ashford he specifically mentioned that the Prinsendam would not be replaced due to current 'cruise economics'.

 

He also mentioned for those desiring the small ship experience like the Prinsendam offers that other Carnival ships, i.e Seabourne, would fill that niche & folks should expect to pay accordingly.

 

And the beat goes on...

 

Be well & safe travels,

Bob:)

 

I was there too and he said just that. But judging from his talk, he thinks the Nieuw Statendam is the wave (pun intended) of the future. So they do have something to do with each other, one is the apple of the eye of the president of the line, the other isn't as much liked/desired by him.

HAL President Ashford was a hurman resources (HR) employee from Coca Cola, with no prior cruise industry experience, let alone even any personal cruise experience. Affable spokesperson, but it appears he is operating on B-School auto-pilot and tone deaf to the uniqueness of the cruise industry itself.

 

Odd choice, unless HAL was having internal staffing issues. Which sounds unlikely, since regardless of what other problems people note, virtually no one has anything but high praise for HAL onboard crew and staff members. Staffing issues would show up more organically in the actual passenger experience if this was the case, and/or justification for putting an HR person at the helm of this company.

 

The irony is the tone-deaf decisions in Seattle now fall on the poor onboard crew and staff to explain and work around.

So they do have something to do with each other, one is the apple of the eye of the president of the line, the other isn't as much liked/desired by him.

I promise that I am not Orlando Ashford in disguise.

 

The irony is the tone-deaf decisions in Seattle ....

Seems like the only tone deafness in play is that which prompts some to think their own personal preference for cruising how it used to be is more profitable than cruising as it is actually more profitable, at this price point, with bigger ships, and entertainment and activities appealing to a new generation of passengers.

 

 

 

This message may have been drafted using voice recognition. Please forgive any typos.

I promise that I am not Orlando Ashford in disguise.

 

Seems like the only tone deafness in play is that which prompts some to think their own personal preference for cruising how it used to be is more profitable than cruising as it is actually more profitable, at this price point, with bigger ships, and entertainment and activities appealing to a new generation of passengers.

 

This message may have been drafted using voice recognition. Please forgive any typos.

 

The biggest threat to the cruise industry right now is over-saturation of the market and overly-impacted port experiences caused by the proliferation larger ships. My sense is the trend towards floating mega-hotels will go the same way as the all-nclusive Club Med, Catskills and Poconos vacation experience.

 

Chasing a "new generation" of cruise passengers is a fools errand, since they may well have little discretionary income to spend in their retirement years of even receive their promised pensions. Far away places and strange sounding names are no longer calling them. They have now seen it all from Google Earth and globalization is continuously homogenizing the world's population and cultures anyway.

 

Since too many of those far away places now all look the same and showing up with 4000-6000 other day trippers all getting herded into Diamonds International while dodging bulllets and drug crime in too mamy dirt bag destinations if they dare go further than the artificially created shopping compounds portside locations. So is selling the artificial onboard experience over the actual travel destination the "future of cruising"?

 

The one clear advantage cruising continues to have is not having to use an airport to get to your destination - yet with the mass arrival and departure of shared mega-ships in the same port, I am seeing less and less advantage.

 

Case in point - smaller HAL ship arriving at the same port as the Konigsdam but the port facility was too small for the Konigsdam to open two departure gangways - the back up was intense and the Konigsdam passengers shot us icy stares as we added to the port congestion. Fun times.

 

Who will be paying for the port facilities expansions to handle multiple mega-ships or will the more remote and smaller ports just simply get out of the business, leaving even fewer options for more mega-ships. Not fun times

The biggest threat to the cruise industry right now is over-saturation of the market and overly-impacted port experiences caused by the proliferation larger ships.

Credit where credit is due: This is one of the few things you said in this context that matches the reality. That is the biggest threat. However, predictably, you guessed the most likely best remedy wrong. Yet, this is still progress and worth acknowledging.

 

This message may have been drafted using voice recognition. Please forgive any typos.

Credit where credit is due: This is one of the few things you said in this context that matches the reality. That is the biggest threat. However, predictably, you guessed the most likely best remedy wrong. Yet, this is still progress and worth acknowledging.

 

This message may have been drafted using voice recognition. Please forgive any typos.

 

No remedy was offered. Don't read between the lines, if you want to continue your peculiar brand of rational discussion.

The biggest threat to the cruise industry right now is over-saturation of the market and overly-impacted port experiences caused by the proliferation larger ships. My sense is the trend towards floating mega-hotels will go the same way as the all-nclusive Club Med, Catskills and Poconos vacation experience.

 

Chasing a "new generation" of cruise passengers is a fools errand, since they may well have little discretionary income to spend in their retirement years of even receive their promised pensions. Far away places and strange sounding names are no longer calling them. They have now seen it all from Google Earth and globalization is continuously homogenizing the world's population and cultures anyway.

 

Since too many of those far away places now all look the same and showing up with 4000-6000 other day trippers all getting herded into Diamonds International while dodging bulllets and drug crime in too mamy dirt bag destinations if they dare go further than the artificially created shopping compounds portside locations. So is selling the artificial onboard experience over the actual travel destination the "future of cruising"?

 

The one clear advantage cruising continues to have is not having to use an airport to get to your destination - yet with the mass arrival and departure of shared mega-ships in the same port, I am seeing less and less advantage.

 

Case in point - smaller HAL ship arriving at the same port as the Konigsdam but the port facility was too small for the Konigsdam to open two departure gangways - the back up was intense and the Konigsdam passengers shot us icy stares as we added to the port congestion. Fun times.

 

Who will be paying for the port facilities expansions to handle multiple mega-ships or will the more remote and smaller ports just simply get out of the business, leaving even fewer options for more mega-ships. Not fun times

 

 

 

SO SO true on so many counts the young' uns are nogt heavy in to saving, and forget abougt pensions in U.S. I cannogt comment re: other homelands.,,,,,,,,,, they well may not have the discretionary funds fo r travel. Some cannot manage to pay rent for an apartment.

I promise that I am not Orlando Ashford in disguise.

 

He would be hard to disguise.

So is selling the artificial onboard experience over the actual travel destination the "future of cruising"?

 

 

Hardly a new thing. Disney World, anyone? The first time I went to London with my ex-husband, a Disney fan, he lamented that London wasn't as clean as the EPCOT version...

 

 

The one clear advantage cruising continues to have is not having to use an airport to get to your destination - yet with the mass arrival and departure of shared mega-ships in the same port, I am seeing less and less advantage.

 

 

Funny thing is that I don't hear millennials complain about air travel. It's mainly the older generations.

Hardly a new thing. Disney World, anyone? The first time I went to London with my ex-husband, a Disney fan, he lamented that London wasn't as clean as the EPCOT version...

 

 

 

Funny thing is that I don't hear millennials complain about air travel. It's mainly the older generations.

 

 

Is that on the 'not permitted list' ?

 

It gets hard to keep track. as that list gets longer by the day/week :)

Hardly a new thing. Disney World, anyone? The first time I went to London with my ex-husband, a Disney fan, he lamented that London wasn't as clean as the EPCOT version...

And each kind of experience has its proper place, especially in today's world, which is proverbially far less clean than the world within which we grew up. Given that many of us have go get home from a vacation and go back to work the next day, that prototypical vacation that challenges us to learn and grow may be a bad fit, as it typically requires a vacation after the vacation to have the necessary amount of relaxation, escapism and rest one needs occasionally while working.

 

Funny thing is that I don't hear millennials complain about air travel. It's mainly the older generations.

Younger folks are generally more willing to engage with what's offered and find the best path through, while older folks generally expect offerings to adapt to them.

We are in our sixties and in good health.

 

We view cruises as simply one potential offering for us among many in the travel basket of goods. The attractiveness and offerings in the cruise market been overshadowed by other travel opportunities.

 

Over the past few years we have been doing far less cruising and much more independent travel and AI's. I think it is a combination of feeling the limits of cruising in terms of time spent in locales and the comparative (for us) increase in value of independent land travel vs. cruises. For us several weeks bouncing around in the Greek Islands or Turkey or three weeks on Sicily and Malta now have far more draw than a typical Med cruise.