Park West art auctions and Regent - Why?

I know that the works of modern "masters" like Peter Max, Emile Bellet and Thomas Kinkaid aren't everyone's taste (they certainly aren't mine :eek:) and a cruise ship is probably the last place I'd purchase a work of "art" for thousands of dollars in many cases, but given Park West's questionable reputation generally I wonder why Regent continues their association with them? I have attended several auctions at sea, mainly for entertainment and curiosity value, and it seems to me that the slick snake oil salesmen spruiking these "investments" are taking full advantage of the old saying, "there's one born every minute". Many cruiselines have dropped Park West and/or art auctions so I wonder why Regent continues with them. Presumably it's still a money earner for them and the auctioneer but who actually buys this stuff? I never never seen anything I'd pay $10 for, let alone $10,000. Or perhaps I just don't understand the investment opportunity I'm missing although it seems to me that these artists are only collectible masters because Park West says they are and have a warehouse full of this kitch to offload on gullible cruisers.

Park West is on Oceania too . . . . . (or at least on the Regatta)

Park West has been gone from all Oceania ships for years. And rightfully so. Cheap champagne does not disguise a con.

I know that the works of modern "masters" like Peter Max, Emile Bellet and Thomas Kinkaid aren't everyone's taste (they certainly aren't mine :eek:) and a cruise ship is probably the last place I'd purchase a work of "art" for thousands of dollars in many cases, but given Park West's questionable reputation generally I wonder why Regent continues their association with them? I have attended several auctions at sea, mainly for entertainment and curiosity value, and it seems to me that the slick snake oil salesmen spruiking these "investments" are taking full advantage of the old saying, "there's one born every minute". Many cruiselines have dropped Park West and/or art auctions so I wonder why Regent continues with them. Presumably it's still a money earner for them and the auctioneer but who actually buys this stuff? I never never seen anything I'd pay $10 for, let alone $10,000. Or perhaps I just don't understand the investment opportunity I'm missing although it seems to me that these artists are only collectible masters because Park West says they are and have a warehouse full of this kitch to offload on gullible cruisers.

I too would like to see Park West removed from the Regent ships. I dislike their art and tactics. However, on my last cruise in November, a number of people purchased art so not everyone shares our opinion of Park West.

My understanding is that, when Oceania got rid of Park West, Regent's contract with Park West still had time to run. I imagine that if Regent had terminated its relationship with Park West at the time, Park West's army of attorneys would have quickly filed a breach of contract suit. Such a suit would have been very costly to defend for Regent and might have outweighed any loss of goodwill caused by the continuation of the auctions until the conclusion of the contract.

Hopefully, the contract will end shortly and we will be rid of Park West.

It has been proven in court that Park West sold fraudulent art (Dali prints). Yet, the person on board the Voyager last month selling this stuff was on television with the Cruise Director every other day pushing the "art". He was treated like a member of the crew (he isn't) when he participated in the crossing the equator ceremony. Many of these sales people are at least nice -- this one was not -- he was quite obnoxious! This subject comes up every year and it seems that Regent simply wants them on the ship for some reason.

It has been proven in court that Park West sold fraudulent art (Dali prints). Yet, the person on board the Voyager last month selling this stuff was on television with the Cruise Director every other day pushing the "art". He was treated like a member of the crew (he isn't) when he participated in the crossing the equator ceremony. Many of these sales people are at least nice -- this one was not -- he was quite obnoxious! This subject comes up every year and it seems that Regent simply wants them on the ship for some reason.

TC,

As I stated above, I wish Park West was removed from Regent ships. I think their business methods are questionable at best and take advantage of unsuspecting passengers during their auctions.

However, in the interests of accuracy, I believe it was not proven in court that Park West sold fraudulent art. Fraud was not an issue in the trial and the jury apparently did not make a specific finding of fraud.

Moreover, whether or not fraud was proven at trial, that fact is irrelevant because the jury verdict no longer exists. Park West's motion for new trial was granted by the court. The court found that persistent misconduct by the defense created a reasonable probability that such misconduct influenced the verdict in favor of the defense. That verdict is now null and void. The grant of a new trial was upheld on appeal by the US 6th Circuit Court of Appeals. Here's a link to their opinion which lays out the facts of the case nicely. (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ca6.uscourts.gov%2Fopinions.pdf%2F12a0303p-06.pdf&ei=j8joUIWGJYiLiAKc-IGwAw&usg=AFQjCNFwHhVnzTCxX1oMtfM9yLEJAChmAw&bvm=bv.1355534169,d.cGE&cad=rja)

Whether Regent is complicit with Park West depends on facts we do not know. For example, Regent's contract with Park West may require Park West to be given a television channel on the ships and may also require the cruise director to appear with a Park West employee on television a certain number of times per cruise. I don't think it's fair to condemn Regent until all the facts are known.

Sorry Wripro,

I was on the Regatta today and they're back . . . .

Buyer BEWARE!

If Park West revenue helps lower our cruise fares I'm all for it! (But I'd never buy anything they offer.)

A purser on another cruise line reported the art guy made more a week than the captain of the ship - that shows it's lucrative!

Most Regent pax seem mature enough to know if they want to buy or not buy!

Again: Buyer BEWARE!

TC,

 

As I stated above, I wish Park West was removed from Regent ships. I think their business methods are questionable at best and take advantage of unsuspecting passengers during their auctions.

 

However, in the interests of accuracy, I believe it was not proven in court that Park West sold fraudulent art. Fraud was not an issue in the trial and the jury apparently did not make a specific finding of fraud.

 

Moreover, whether or not fraud was proven at trial, that fact is irrelevant because the jury verdict no longer exists. Park West's motion for new trial was granted by the court. The court found that persistent misconduct by the defense created a reasonable probability that such misconduct influenced the verdict in favor of the defense. That verdict is now null and void. The grant of a new trial was upheld on appeal by the US 6th Circuit Court of Appeals. Here's a link to their opinion which lays out the facts of the case nicely. (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ca6.uscourts.gov%2Fopinions.pdf%2F12a0303p-06.pdf&ei=j8joUIWGJYiLiAKc-IGwAw&usg=AFQjCNFwHhVnzTCxX1oMtfM9yLEJAChmAw&bvm=bv.1355534169,d.cGE&cad=rja)

 

Whether Regent is complicit with Park West depends on facts we do not know. For example, Regent's contract with Park West may require Park West to be given a television channel on the ships and may also require the cruise director to appear with a Park West employee on television a certain number of times per cruise. I don't think it's fair to condemn Regent until all the facts are known.

Dave -- interesting information, however, I think we are talking about different lawsuits (there have been many). The lawsuit I am referring to is when Park West filed a defamation case against Fine Art Registry. It looks like the thread you linked was a case against Park West. Not being a lawyer I find it a bit confusing. This is one paragraph of the case I'm referring to (I have additional text).

DETROIT, MI.- The recent loss of Park West Gallery’s defamation case against Fine Art Registry and three individuals shows that the jury in Federal Court in Eastern Michigan had no doubt that the evidence they were shown proved that Park West Gallery has been selling and continues to sell inauthentic art, including Salvador Dalí prints, using fraudulent misrepresentation at art auctions on cruise ships. And Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines have stated that they will not be renewing their contract with the disgraced gallery.

[i wish there was a delete post function here!]

Dave -- interesting information, however, I think we are talking about different lawsuits (there have been many). The lawsuit I am referring to is when Park West filed a defamation case against Fine Art Registry. It looks like the thread you linked was a case against Park West. Not being a lawyer I find it a bit confusing. This is one paragraph of the case I'm referring to (I have additional text).

 

DETROIT, MI.- The recent loss of Park West Gallery’s defamation case against Fine Art Registry and three individuals shows that the jury in Federal Court in Eastern Michigan had no doubt that the evidence they were shown proved that Park West Gallery has been selling and continues to sell inauthentic art, including Salvador Dalí prints, using fraudulent misrepresentation at art auctions on cruise ships. And Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines have stated that they will not be renewing their contract with the disgraced gallery.

 

 

TC,

We are both discussing the same case. Please reread the opinion and you'll see that the case involved a suit by Park West against defendants Fine Art Registry and several others for defamation, etc. The opinion says:

"In April 2008, Park West filed a complaint in Michigan state court against Franks, Hochman, and GFAR alleging defamation, tortious interference, interference with prospective business advantage, and civil conspiracy to destroy Park West’s goodwill and reputation. The action was removed to federal court. Park West had also filed a similar defamation case against Phillips, and the cases were consolidated."

You may be confused because the appeal was filed by the trial defendants after the trial court granted Park West's motion for new trial and then denied the trial defendants' motion to reinstate the verdict. The appeal was from the denial of the motion to reinstate the verdict.

I believe the language you quoted in your message came originally from Fine Art Registry or its attorneys after the jury verdict but before the grant of a new trial wiped out the jury verdict. It had no legal significance when it was issued and certainly had no legal significance after the verdict was invalidated.

Sorry Wripro,

 

I was on the Regatta today and they're back . . . .

OH NO! Please say you are joking or it was just a short visit. Hope it's just that ship since our next 2 scheduled cruises after Voyager on are on the Nautica.

On Voyager, I found the Park West cluttered mess on deck 6 useful for exactly 1 purpose. They provided pens or pencils if I needed one for the daily quiz. ;)

In 2010 on Mariner, 12 passengers were cruising on PW's dime. Their cruise fare was paid by Park West based on their prior purchases on Regent sailings. Think about that - lots of "art" sold on board to those 12 folks to justify giving them a free cruise.

The 12 were courted like royalty with private events, special showings and several leggy hot blondes cooing sweet nothings in their ear. I naively wandered into Stars night club where champagnes was being dispensed one afternoon at sea. As I slurped and chatted up several of those comped, I was surprised to learn how much they loved the auction process...and how much money they had "invested" in PW art.

A widower in Maryland told me he had a BARN on his property filled with art he bought from PW on his many Regent sailings. His daughter was going to inherit the art - not cash or stocks - when he died. He was a regular Regent customer and, again, loved the auctions.

My point: even though art auctions are not to the liking of many of us, there are obviously other passengers who enjoy the show and are willing to put their money up for the indulgent expereince. I won't & I don't. But that's me.

Without our fellow passengers coughing up their hard earned dough to buy 'art' onboard, how else could PW subsidize sending their reps, pay Regent a decent fee and...have 12 Regent customers sailing on their dime?

Xrvltraveler,

That's bad news. Not entirely unexpected since the same corporation is running both lines.

TC2,

That "for some reason" Regent wants them aboard is green and has pictures of presidents on it.

Dave,

Thank you for the updated information. I still have a problem with Regent having a company onboard that has as many complaints against it as Park West. I Googled "Park West Lawsuits" and found a lot of information (some as recent as 2012) that would make me leary of this company.

Wristband, I truly hope the artwork that the widower purchased from Park West to leave to his daughter is worth the money he paid for it.

While I would not be overly happy to see any art auctions on Regent, if a reputable company was onboard, it would be easier to accept. Having artwork "in your face", blocking hallways, entrances to the Mariner lounge, etc. is, IMO, tacky and should not be done. Regent is a luxury cruise line and the contractors on board do not need to set up their wares like it was a circus.

Sorry to hear that Park West is back on Oceania:mad:

I suspect a lot of lawsuits against PW are from disgruntled customers with buyers remorse who discover their "heirloom" painting (usually a print BTW) is only worth a fraction of what they paid for it in all the hyped up excitement and hooplah of a cruise ship auction. They are flattered to be told by the slick auctioneer that they are discerning and smart art connoisseurs/investors and pay big $$$$ accordingly.

There was a man at the sparsely attended PW auction on Voyager's recent Xmas cruise who purchased several items basically because the PW guy told him he should. Either that or he was a "plant" to get the auction vibe going in the hope other people would be swept up in all the bidding excitement. That didn't happen: in fact most people were trying not to laugh at the "art". But I guess it's in the eye of the beholder.

This cruise sailed down the coast of Western Australia where there is a very active and vibrant Aboriginal artistic community with some world famous artists. Many people I spoke to were interested in acquiring a piece of Aboriginal art as a memento of their visit to Oz so why didn't PW seize the opportunity? Oh wait, I forgot, they have a pile of Thomas Kinkaid prints instead :cool:

Bottom line...

Regent and PCL wish to maximize revenue, no matter what the client reaction. As the client base objects and rebels, no matter, They are not in it for the long haul.

They don't bother me alot, but I wish them gone. Why haven't their contract with Regent expired long ago, and why have they, seemingly, obtained a new contract with Oceania?

If PW and Regent are rusted together can they at least change their TV infomercial which is still showing the Larry King/Peter Max interview and a piece about Rembrandt's etching studio amongst others which I first saw at least 3 years ago.

I can't speak to Regatta, but I was just on Riviera (Dec 10 to 20) and indeed, the art auctions are present again -- but NOT BY PARK WEST. I only caught the tail end of the cruise director on TV with the auction representative, but the name of the company is World Something. I suspect Regatta was the same.

They were much less intrusive than Park West. While some of Riviera's original art was removed for the auction art to be hung on the wall. I had been on Riviera's christening and maiden voyages, and I missed the original art. There are no easels of auction art cluttering up the public spaces, and other than that one brief exposure on the cruise director's morning show, and a couple of announcements in the daily ship's paper, I saw no evidence of the auctions. I only realized the "new" art on the walls was from the auction when I saw several small "sold" signs.

Why do they have art auctions? The bottom line is revenue. It's correct that the auctioneer(s) are not crew members, so they (like the boutique personnel) are provided with cabins that would otherwise provide revenue. This and other factors, like handling, are the costs of having the auctions. As long as enough people buy enough paintings to cover the costs and provide additional revenue they are going to be with us, regardless of reputation.

When Oceania got rid of Park West several years ago, it was simply the fact that revenue had dropped below costs. Poof-- they were gone. Easy decision.

There is an intangible factor, as well -- not everyone plays ping pong, but they have a table. No everyone uses the spa. Not everyone makes purchases from the boutique. For that matter, not everyone uses the swimming pool or the gym. But, as long as enough people enjoy these and other activities, including art auctions, it really doesn't matter what you individually think of them.

I don't buy art or attend the auctions, so I'm doing my part to be rid of them. I think picketing the auctions with protest signs is probably not a seemly thing to do on board a Regent or Oceania ship...:p

Don -- you made my day:D:D Thrilled to learn that is not Park West on Oceania. Looking forward to the day when they are no longer on Regent.

All I can say re: the art auctioneer on the Regatta is that the "art" looked exactly like what I've seen for years on Regent, easels included.

I did not pick up a brochure so can't be 100% sure. I will check to see what I can find out and clarify my "sighting" and report back.

lol, Peggy, I suspect you will not have to inquire, you will be peppered with announcements on your door as to which Art group is onboard.

Clearly! All into the waste basket - unread.

I thought I'd try to find out if PW was back on Oceania . . . .