Booking With US Sites & US TA's

[molliemoo]

We booked and deposited a cruise through a big US travel agency at the end of October. We will pay approx half price, saving over $6,000 compared to the cheapest on line fare I could find in Australia. Normally I'm a fierce "buy local" supporter, but this is a serious saving, and I bet the price difference wouldn't go into the local travel agent's coffers, but straight to Princess. I cannot see how Princess can justify such a huge price discrepancy. The Australian dollar would have to fall to around 25c for the Aust/US prices to be similar. I suspect Australians are being ripped off!

 

According to an email from my US TA, as of 13/11/09 Princess has now restricted all US based agents from booking international clients on Princess sailings, but will honour current bookings and rates.

[Australian family]

Everybody should flood the email contacts of these cruises companies and tell them what they think and that they will be using other lines.

[Billy and Charlie's Mum]

Everybody should flood the email contacts of these cruises companies and tell them what they think and that they will be using other lines.

 

Maybe we should get Today Tonight or A Current Affair involved.

[woodscruise]

I have just done a comparsion with a 7 night Carribean cruise 1 booked through Princess Cruises for an inside stateroom, on 3rd January, the price was AUD 903.76. The price for the same cruise, from an on-line travel agent was USD 499.00 In both cases taxes were addition. This will mean the exchange rate for this cruise would be .5521 if Princess leads us to believe that it is only the exchange rate difference. Today our exchange rate is around the .90 and when you convert the USD 499 to AUD this would be AUD 555 hence we can see who pays more for cruising and not been able to take advantage of the discounted prices in the USA. Then don't forget tips and other onboard expenses. :mad:

 

Regards

 

Michael

[stki]

We have also used US TA's to book our cruises (saving lots of money), with no problems what so ever.

 

I have emailed our agent, to see if there is a change.

 

I would also love to be able to give our business to an Aussie TA, but the difference in price is too much. eg. Our last cruise to the Baltic. Oz price

balcony cabin $4000 pp(AUD), US price- $1600pp USD (with a better balcony cabin). Even with a bad exchange rate, there is no comparison.

 

Will let you know what I find out.

[Bizziecruzer]

Someone mentioned the media should be contacted re this issue. In today's Sunday Mail (Bribane), there's an article about fares being cheaper if booked via the US - nothing in it we didn't already know. It does quote an Aus TA saying that you may be denied boarding - scare mongering me thinks! Also mentions 2 US online TA's which I'm sure we all know about. Who knows - Princess may see this as negative press and do something - well we can only hope!

[Rassa]

The same article is in the Sunday Melbourne Paper. Princess was doing this some years ago, when other shipping lines were not. Perhaps they are scaremongering and it may blow over in a year or so. There was on this board about 6 months ago, where (and I think it was Princess) gave the couple a hard time on board, because they bought the cruise overseas, but the couple stood their ground and refused to pay the extra. If it is scaremongering, I imagine Aussies will take a chance and stand their ground. It has also been reported on this Board where Princess had the cabin numbers in staff quarters of those cruisers who chose to pay less gratuities.

 

Princess seems to be the worst. Take your money elsewhere.

Rassa

[Australian family]

Here is the link for the article:

 

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26412648-17102,00.html

 

The Australian Travel Agents are obviously bullying the cruises lines to make people use Aussie agents.

 

I hope one of the tv stations get on the bandwagon.

 

The cruises lines needed to be shown up for ripping off Aussies!

[rkmw]

Here is the link for the article:

 

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26412648-17102,00.html

 

The Australian Travel Agents are obviously bullying the cruises lines to make people use Aussie agents.

 

I hope one of the tv stations get on the bandwagon.

 

The cruises lines needed to be shown up for ripping off Aussies!

 

hope this thread doesnt go poof as it mentions TA's

 

anyone with some contacts email Current Affairs or Today Tonight

 

rkmw

[NSWP]

A big UK cruise agent has quoted me 2000 pounds (AU$4000) for the same 30 night Star Princess cruise quoted here at AU5500. That is a saving of AU$3000 per couple. So the poms are getting much better deals. I reckon this story shoud go to ACA or Current Affair. Has anyone proof of Princess refusing boarding because the booking was with a US t/a.?

[LuckiePuris]

I have a question...

 

So we cannot book with a US TA. But when I go to http://www.royalcaribbean.com.au which is the Australian website, it shows me the cruises in Australian dollars.

 

Am I able to book direct with the RCI Australia webpage? Or is this something we can no longer do?

 

I would assume it should be ok and the same as booking direct with P&O and Princess.

 

Thanks for your help!

[woodscruise]

Yes we can book on the cruise companies web sites directly, however it is not the cheap rates that the US T/A are getting.

[The_Big_M]

So we cannot book with a US TA. But when I go to www.royalcaribbean.com.au which is the Australian website, it shows me the cruises in Australian dollars.

 

Am I able to book direct with the RCI Australia webpage? Or is this something we can no longer do?

 

If you book on the RCI Australia page as you describe, the price will typically be the same as if you booked through an Australian travel agent.

[Billy and Charlie's Mum]

A big UK cruise agent has quoted me 2000 pounds (AU$4000) for the same 30 night Star Princess cruise quoted here at AU5500. That is a saving of AU$3000 per couple. So the poms are getting much better deals. I reckon this story shoud go to ACA or Current Affair. Has anyone proof of Princess refusing boarding because the booking was with a US t/a.?

That's just it Les. It is all smoke screens and innuendos. They are trying to put the seed of doubt into everyones minds so that people will book here and not with an o/s TA.

[spongerob]

I don't think you would have any concerns about refusal of embarkation if booking a cruise through a US TA, as long as the cruise does not depart from an Australian port. If it does depart from Australia, I think maybe the concerns are valid.

 

Guys, I feel sorry for you, but if you were to investigate for yourself, you might find that the high costs you pay and the restrictions the cruise lines have to comply with in regards to overseas bookings are written into the laws of your country.

 

It's understandable that the Australian government, or state governments, wish to protect local businesses from foreign competition. It is also understandable that your government wishes to collect taxes that are part of those sales. Both would be impossible if you were allowed to go overseas to make your travel arrangements.

 

Some of you blame the cruise lines. This isn't without justification - while they might not like the restrictions that force them to operate a local subsidiary in Australia, it also allows them to set higher pricing. But, in order to maintain their standing, and more importantly, avoid problems with operating their ships from Australian ports, they have to comply. That means that they have to lean on their agents in the US to refuse Australian bookings.

 

What you have here is a perfect storm of unintended consequences. Your government wants to protect your travel agencies from international competition, so crafts laws that makes it more difficult for you to book overseas. Your government wants the taxes and licensing fees, so forces the cruise lines to set up local subsidiaries if they exceed a threshold of activity from Australian ports (perhaps the reason Carnival isn't included - yet). The cruise lines face stiff penalties and other repercussions if they do not comply, so they are forced to tell overseas agencies not to accept bookings that are initiated from Australia. By playing along, the cruise lines get to charge higher prices, the government gets more tax revenue from the higher prices since X% of a large number is much better than X% of a smaller number, and YOU, the consumer, pays for it all.

 

I would be most interested to find out what an investigation would discover. I did my own research to make the preceding comments. It took about 15 minutes on Google to find relevant documentation on AUS web sites. The thing is, you have to follow the money. Governments are like the cosa nostra, even if they aren't involved directly in the business, they still like to get their cut. Your government has made an offer that the cruise lines can't refuse.

[The_Big_M]

Ah, you're still going with that old chestnut about regulation, and hence government, causing the extra cost. Last time you brought this up, you referred to your 15 minutes of research on google and quoted laws that didn't exist. This time you sensibly avoided quoting any laws at all, but still claim the laws and the government are the bogeymen, even though the pricing is purely a shipping function.

 

The lines vary prices here just the same as they do in the US, and even for the same reason. The US is the home of state based pricing, and it's not done for regulatory purposes; it's done to maximise their revenue. The cruise lines do exactly the same thing here - it's a continuation of the exact same thing they do on their home territory.

 

However, some of your other claims above are still demonstrably incorrect.

 

1) Protectionism is as much an American sport as it is a local one. Government regulation doesn't cause prices to be higher than over there because of it. There's no tariff on cruises that we charge that you don't.

 

2) As for taxes, again showing your lack of research, no extra sales taxes are levied on cruises here. So much for those arguments.

 

3) You say "they (cruise lines) might not like the restrictions that force them to operate a local subsidiary in Australia." Pity there aren't any such restrictions!

 

This is Strike 3, but there are still more errors...

 

4) "But, in order to maintain their standing, and more importantly, avoid problems with operating their ships from Australian ports, they have to comply. That means that they have to lean on their agents in the US to refuse Australian bookings." Aside from the logical failure that one does not lead to the other - operating a subsidiary does not mean that you need to refuse to do business elsewhere, again there is no such restriction causing them to need to operate such a subsidiary here.

 

5) "so crafts laws that makes it more difficult for you to book overseas. "

 

This story is crafted so stylistically. Pity it doesn't stack up. Again, no such law exists.

 

My advice is the same as last time. Google is great as an aid but please don't rely on 15 minutes of using it to make you an expert on local tax and business law. Further, the advice that you offer any international user that any issues are due to governmental regulation is just old, boring and incorrect - though do demonstrate your bias.

[spongerob]

1) Protectionism is as much an American sport as it is a local one. Government regulation doesn't cause prices to be higher than over there because of it. There's no tariff on cruises that we charge that you don't. Protectionism doesn't require a tariff, just regulations that make it more difficult for you to make bookings with agencies outside your own country. And true enough, the US government can be just as bad as anyone else.

 

2) As for taxes, again showing your lack of research, no extra sales taxes are levied on cruises here. So much for those arguments. You don't see the taxes because they are hidden in the cost of setting up a business. I know a bit about this because my business operates in Australia. Taxes and fees assessed at the corporate level end up being passed on to the consumer as overhead.

 

3) You say "they (cruise lines) might not like the restrictions that force them to operate a local subsidiary in Australia." Pity there aren't any such restrictions! This statement displays such naivety that it is difficult to refute without violating board guidelines for civility. But I will try. No corporate entity is allowed to do business in Australia and send the revenue offshore. It is the same just about anywhere. If this were not the case, every corporation doing business in Australia would conduct business from Dubai or some other tax haven, and you'd reach them via a website.

 

Cruise lines want to operate from Australian ports because 1) you have a large enough local market to make it worthwhile and 2) in spite of our occasional differences in opinion, we like you well enough to travel to your country and enjoy what you have to offer. In order to operate from your ports and access your marketplace, the cruise lines have to set themselves up under Australian laws.

 

This is Strike 3, but there are still more errors...

 

4) "But, in order to maintain their standing, and more importantly, avoid problems with operating their ships from Australian ports, they have to comply. That means that they have to lean on their agents in the US to refuse Australian bookings." Aside from the logical failure that one does not lead to the other - operating a subsidiary does not mean that you need to refuse to do business elsewhere, again there is no such restriction causing them to need to operate such a subsidiary here. In addition to being naive, you apparently don't understand English. Or reality. Cruise lines have made an investment to operate in your part of the world. Return on that investment rests to a large extent on the the ability to conduct business without interference. Your government does not want you to send your money to the US, and although some have in the past found ways around the restrictions using internet agencies, the authorities have caught on. They want to cruise lines to play ball, or be subject to regulatory harassment.

The US government does the same thing, by the way, so I'm not saying it's unique.

 

5) "so crafts laws that makes it more difficult for you to book overseas. "

 

Ever wonder why it's so difficult for you guys, and why it obviously upsets you so greatly? It would be dead easy for Princess or RCI or anyone else to take your money and fill their ships. You just aren't seeing the bigger picture.

 

My advice is the same as last time. Google is great as an aid but please don't rely on 15 minutes of using it to make you an expert on local tax and business law. Further, the advice that you offer any international user that any issues are due to governmental regulation is just old, boring and incorrect - though do demonstrate your bias.

What, pray tell, is my bias? All I am asking you to do is take the blinders off, quit thinking the way you have been indoctrinated to think, and follow the money. I think you are being worked over, by both sides, but until you figure out who is yanking your chains you won't ever solve the problem.

 

It's not your analysis that is incorrect, it's your basic assumptions. Start from square one with a blank sheet of paper, spend 15 minutes in research, read the documents you find, and see if what I'm trying to tell you makes a little more sense.

 

Or, if it's thinking you are averse to, show me an example where regulation has lowered costs. I'm not saying all regs are bad or unnecessary, just that they have a cost.

[Down-Unders]

What, pray tell, is my bias? All I am asking you to do is take the blinders off, quit thinking the way you have been indoctrinated to think, and follow the money. I think you are being worked over, by both sides, but until you figure out who is yanking your chains you won't ever solve the problem.

 

It's not your analysis that is incorrect, it's your basic assumptions. Start from square one with a blank sheet of paper, spend 15 minutes in research, read the documents you find, and see if what I'm trying to tell you makes a little more sense.

 

Or, if it's thinking you are averse to, show me an example where regulation has lowered costs. I'm not saying all regs are bad or unnecessary, just that they have a cost.

 

 

 

spongerob; What ever spin you want to put on it, the blank sheet of paper should read, Australia and New Zealand are being robbed blind.

[victravellers]

Sorry, duplicate post

[victravellers]

However they come up with the pricing, I don't know.

 

All I know is that they are gouging us Aussies on pricing.

If the prices were more competitive none of us would have a problem booking here in AUS. Problem solved:D

 

I realise it is probably not that simple, but I can tell you from personal experience that it is gut wrenching to hear from a fellow traveller (USA)

that they have paid $1500-$2000 less per person for their holiday than me to visit the same ports and eat the same food and share the same experience.

[silverwillow]

Spongebob can you please tell me which Australian laws you are basing your research on so we can all see for ourselves?

 

I am getting annoyed at this issue and I am not prepared to pay thousands extra for the same holiday as others so I guess our first cruise may be our last, at least with a cruise company that is charging these unfair prices.

 

Can someone give me a list of the cruise companies that are not using these dirty price fixing tactics?

 

Silverwillow.

[cruiselover53]

I'm not a big time business person but to me it's fairly simple.I firmly believe that that heads of the travel industry quite often mix with the heads of the cruise industry.Of course this topic comes up.Both sides are losing money by allowing us to book direct with overseas T/A's.And you can be sure as they sip on their glasses of port and smoke their large cigars,what decision they will make. :cool:

[The_Big_M]

show me an example where regulation has lowered costs. I'm not saying all regs are bad or unnecessary, just that they have a cost.

 

I don't disagree that they have a cost. My argument with your points is that there isn't the extra degrees of regulation you claim, that would cause a doubling of prices locally. Since you believe that they are there, which regulations in particular? Last time you referred to an "unfair competition law" although such a law does not exist, hence my suggestion that you do a bit more research than just 15 minutes on google.

[bazzaw]

I believe that this situation is mostly to do with currency exchange rates.

 

Think about this. Two people in Australia - today. One books a cruise via the Internet with an American TA and the second one books the same cruise at a street level Ozzie TA. The first pays in US dollars and the second pays in Aussie dollars. The first one eventually pays in Aussie dollars when his/her credit card company convert the USD amount to AUD

 

The first one now has a final cost in AUD , as the second one already had. They WILL be different. Why?? Because the first purchaser's payment in USD will have been converted to AUD AT TODAY'S EXCHANGE RATE charged to their credit card. The second one has also unknowingly had their AUD converted to USD BEFORE the purchase was even made -- but the question is, what was the exchange rate of that conversion (Remember - the exchange rate conversion has already been carried out for this purchase before the purchase was even made - think about it! )

 

Todays USD to AUD conversion will be a lot different to an AUD to USD conversion based on an exchange rate which may be 6 or more months old. The glossy brochures which quote prices in AUD were calculated long ago (taking into account exchange rates) - and printed long ago.

 

So - when you pay in AUD TODAY - you are not getting the currently good USD/AUD exchange rate - rather something ( a bad one) that existed some time ago

 

 

Barry

[Australian family]

I believe that this situation is mostly to do with currency exchange rates.

 

Think about this. Two people in Australia - today. One books a cruise via the Internet with an American TA and the second one books the same cruise at a street level Ozzie TA. The first pays in US dollars and the second pays in Aussie dollars. The first one eventually pays in Aussie dollars when his/her credit card company convert the USD amount to AUD

 

The first one now has a final cost in AUD , as the second one already had. They WILL be different. Why?? Because the first purchaser's payment in USD will have been converted to AUD AT TODAY'S EXCHANGE RATE charged to their credit card. The second one has also unknowingly had their AUD converted to USD BEFORE the purchase was even made -- but the question is, what was the exchange rate of that conversion (Remember - the exchange rate conversion has already been carried out for this purchase before the purchase was even made - think about it! )

 

Todays USD to AUD conversion will be a lot different to an AUD to USD conversion based on an exchange rate which may be 6 or more months old. The glossy brochures which quote prices in AUD were calculated long ago (taking into account exchange rates) - and printed long ago.

 

So - when you pay in AUD TODAY - you are not getting the currently good USD/AUD exchange rate - rather something ( a bad one) that existed some time ago

 

 

Barry

 

If the boot was on the other foot and the Australia dollar went down, we would have to pay more, as you would get told their is a surcharge because of the dollar going down. This does happen with travel. These companies work it their way!