Silver Spirit Preview, Monte Carlo - Barcelona

[meow!]

I had not been reading the Silversea board two years ago. Can you please clarify for me how the shipyard(s) could leverage Silversea to take delivery of a ship that they did not need. I guess I'm not following this.

 

As already stated, plausibly by showing them the new ship plans and say if Silversea won't buy it, others will, and Silversea will be left behind, and look bad compared with others. Perhaps show how Seabourn is expanding, and how nice the new Seabourn ships will be, and with balconies, will take over Silversea's business. That was just before the economic tsunami, when all lines are competing to expand. We don't know what happened, but can guess at potential sales pitch.

 

Just imagine, a salesman comes to your door and tell you how your next door neighbour is putting in a new swimming pool. How you will look bad without one. How your kids will play next door, and envy next door's kids ... Businessmen are usually by nature expansionists, and that may be why they get into business in the first place. But this mentality is also often the root of business failures. If the former Reneissance did not go from three ship to eight in two years just before the turn of the millennium, they may still be around today. It takes a self-conscious businessman to be tough and bold enough to say NO, and that is the safe businessman.

 

While cruise lines are not forced to buy new ships, they are quite possibly conjured in by shipyards, who have no responsibility for the after market!

[wripro]

Well, they have taken possession of the ship, she looks to be beautiful, people are excited about sailing on her so who cares? Silversea's financial situation is their business, not ours.

[dwelsh]

Well, they have taken possession of the ship, she looks to be beautiful, people are excited about sailing on her so who cares? Silversea's financial situation is their business, not ours.

 

I hate to disagree with you wirepro but if we, as passengers are going to invest large sums of money with the company as deposits and as payments made 90 days ahead of useage of our vacation investments, we are entitled to know if the company is of good financial standing.

[CASHIPman]

Sorry, Meow, but I just don't buy your logic. Shipyards don't go to lines and say, "lookie, lookie..." The shipping line approaches the shipyards with plans and say, "how much will this cost?" (At least that's how it was explained to me by Stephen Payne)

 

I don't think anything can be read into the fact that the ship was delayed by 5 days. It could quite possibly an issue with the banks, and not Silversea...after all, banks are now under tighter controls and scrutiny. To immediately jump to the conclusion that the delay is due to Silversea's financial position without having any facts is a bit unfair.

[meow!]

We read a little while back on this column (can't find that thread at the moment) that Fincantieri has to set up a "holding company/account" in order for Silversea to take over delivery of the Spirit, otherwise Silversea would be unable to take the ship. That coupled with the original post on this thread seems to at least hint that Silversea is stretching itself.

 

We are not saying that Silversea is in financial difficulties, but it would be better off if it used its limited funds to refurbish the existing ships (Silver Cloud's refurbishment was curtailed, remember) than to build a new large ship to increase capacity by 40%. Yes, the newbuild looks impressive (and we will wait for you folks going on it soon to tell us just how impressive, especially whether there will be "bottle necks" in its public areas). So enjoy what has already been done, but the cruise line should learn not to take such risks again given the circumstances!

[MuseCruiser]

I'm not sure of the basis for providing Silversea with financial advice that somehow some folks think they need. Seems a bit presumptuous to me; just IMHO. Message boards are entertaining but somehow I doubt the family or the Board of Directors look to the board for counsel.

[meow!]

Do not know where you are from but it must be close to Mars - You never say anything that is worth while - always off in almost all directions.

I'm not sure of the basis for providing Silversea with financial advice that somehow some folks think they need. Seems a bit presumptuous to me; just IMHO. Message boards are entertaining but somehow I doubt the family or the Board of Directors look to the board for counsel.

Columnists, reporters, analysts and the general public all publish (often opposite) opinions on whether interest rates should be raised/lowered, whether bank executive bonuses should be free/controlled, etc. Governments and major banks have not asked for their advise and may not listen to them at all, but in a free society, a wide range of opinions ought to be published and read. As for which opinion is right, only time can tell. A decade ago, we also posted caution on Renaissance's too rapid over-expansion, subsequent events seem to agree with our opinion.

[Keith1010]

I hate to disagree with you wirepro but if we, as passengers are going to invest large sums of money with the company as deposits and as payments made 90 days ahead of useage of our vacation investments, we are entitled to know if the company is of good financial standing.

 

I do agree that passengers would love to know about the financial viability of a company. There have been rumors for most of the year about another company in the crusing arena and their financial viability and their have been rumors over the years about other companies. And this is not the first time there have been concerns about Silversea's financial viability as I remember similar concerns in 2003/2004 when they took one of the ships out of commission at the last possible minute and there was a good deal of speculation about this.

 

With that said, I do not expect any company to "bleed their soul" if you will and disclose all of this unless they are a publicly traded company and even then they will only disclose the minimum amount of information or the amount of information that they are obligated to disclose to their shareholders/investors..

 

These things can become a self fulfilling prophecy. Let's say a company is having some financial issues and makes that public, then they lose business because of additional concerns, what might have been a manageable situation now can doom the company.

 

So, yes, as consumers we would like to know as much as we can, but I do not see that we are obligated to be told. And as consumers, each of us will make the decision based on what we know at the time.

 

There is alway risk anytime we make purchases. And I suspect that several cruise lines are feeling challenged right now.

 

There are many companies who have struggled over the past year or so to make payments. We just don't always hear about them.

 

Again, I am not putting down anyones concerns because we are talking about large deposits and final payments. I am just saying that many companies are struggling or are stretched and are not disclosing all of the details.

 

And on the positive side, given the current financial situation, I don't think three banks would have come through with loans if they didn't think the company could make it. And I am sure in order to secure the loans that these companies did get to see a lot of detail on the companies financials.

 

Keith

[cruiseyguy]

"Meow" was simply reporting information already in the public domain. I'm sure the banks' financial arrangements with SilverSea & the ship yard have as much to do with the value of the ship as with SilverSea's viability. As, "yes," consumers should make an effort to know as much about any travel company as possible, including its financial situation, in order to make a wise and safe purchase.

[Emtbsam]

Meow,

 

Do not know where you are from but it must be close to Mars - You never say anything that is worth while - always off in almost all directions.

One of the things I have always enjoyed about the Silversea board compared to the mass market boards is the civility of the conversation. I, for one, have always enjoyed the postings by Meow and hope that Meow will continue to provide us with interesting information, details and commentary.

[WesW]

+1 (concur)

[meow!]

Keith, your comment here is fair. What we have said is that enjoy the newbuild Spirit since it seems like a nice ship and it is done. Don't accept any new "option" ships in the foreseeable future as money is tight. Too rapid over-expansion is one of the most risky things any company can do.

 

Cruiseguy, Emtbsam and the good Colonel, thank you so much for your kind encouragement .. meow!

[wripro]

dwelsh,

 

I respect your right to disagree. But if anyone is concerned about booking and handing over money to Silversea fearing they might go under....well, that's why God invented travel insurance. Just be sure not to buy it directly from Silversea.

 

I guess my position stems from the idea that cruising and vacations are supposed to be fun. I see no reason to become a financial expert when researching my cruise. I want to limit my research to what ship to sail, what ports to visit etc.

[meow!]

Sorry, Meow, but I just don't buy your logic. Shipyards don't go to lines and say, "lookie, lookie..." The shipping line approaches the shipyards with plans and say, "how much will this cost?" (At least that's how it was explained to me by Stephen Payne).

So are you suggesting that shipyards sit by and wait for business to come to their doors?

[billcrooz]

dwelsh,

 

I respect your right to disagree. But if anyone is concerned about booking and handing over money to Silversea fearing they might go under....well, that's why God invented travel insurance. Just be sure not to buy it directly from Silversea.

 

I guess my position stems from the idea that cruising and vacations are supposed to be fun. I see no reason to become a financial expert when researching my cruise. I want to limit my research to what ship to sail, what ports to visit etc.

my sentiments exactly ! well said !

[fPetrarca]

Not all travel insurance covers default by the provider. Given the significant cost of a SilverSea cruise I wouldn't blame anyone for being cautious. I don't think it would be "fun" to loose several thousand dollars.

[oregon50]

One of the things I have always enjoyed about the Silversea board compared to the mass market boards is the civility of the conversation. I, for one, have always enjoyed the postings by Meow and hope that Meow will continue to provide us with interesting information, details and commentary.

 

Scratch the last word, and I agree.

[CASHIPman]

Scratch the last word, and I agree.

 

yup!

[MuseCruiser]

If one pays via AMEX, I wonder what kind of "built in" insurance there might be?

[CASHIPman]

So are you suggesting that shipyards sit by and wait for business to come to their doors?

 

For the most part...yep.

[editor@cruisecritic]

Fingers are still tightly crossed that I will be able to fly to Nice (for Monte Carlo) tonight, despite the big bad monster storm in the northeast! Very excited to see Silver Spirit and look forward to answering as many of your questions as I can.

 

I will admit though that I did not follow my own advice with this trip. Which is: if you're traveling somewhere dicey or during a time when wacky weather is possible (like late afternoon flights in heat of summer cause of thunderstorms and, er, snow, in winter) leave yourself some extra time. At the very least, you'll have a stress-free travel experience and what's wrong with an extra day in Monaco???

 

Wish I had followed that mantra this time! Still, think it will work out just fine....

 

Carolyn

[wripro]

Stay positive, Carolyn. I'm sure you'll get there and have a great time.

 

And again, why would I discuss what shipyards should or should not do. If I wanted to do so I am sure there is a website for that. This is Cruise Critic, not Shipyard Critic.

[WesW]

Hang in there Caroyn, the Spirt can't sail without Cruise Critic on board :)

[Keith1010]

Carolyn, wishing you a very safe journey. Just think winter has not even begun.

 

Keith

[meow!]

Scratch the last word, and I agree.

yup!

Information and detailes are of course useful, but they may not be complete without comments. Your present posting is in itself a comment, which many people may or may not agree. And since we disagree with this comment, we will continue to comment reasonably and regularly as supported by others.