Onboard credit card account

[luvs2travl]

I'm not sure why this "issue" crops up every other week, and people go berserk. I travel for both business and pleasure, and hotels and rental car companies have signs on their counters explaining the holds, and the implications of the holds for debit cards. I've had rental car companies put holds of $300-$500 on my credit card. I didn't think a thing of it; it's like a mini insurance policy for the company placing the hold against the possibility that you won't pay the bill at the end or be good for the money.

 

With autotips, shorex, drinks, etc., I don't think $60 per day per person is over the top, and as I've said, holds are standard practice in the travel industry. Cruise lines are no different.

 

Roz

 

This is all part of the cruise experience.

 

I think the confusion seems to always come from a cruiser on HAL. It is because HAL explains up-front, during the on-line booking procedure, that this "hold" is placed on your card and also what the amount will be. I don't know that any other cruise line does this so overtly. I, for one, think it is to HAL's credit that they DO put this information out there so that everyone is aware of it, even tho' most jump off the deep end when reading it.

 

ALL passengers, regardless of age, are charged the daily hotel charge ( or auto-tip, as most folks call it). Some parents allow their kids to have charges on their cruise cards - others do not. Some one has to be responsible for paying for them. If the kids are minors, then the parents or accompanying adults assume that liability, therefore a "hold" is put on their card for that person as well. So yes, a family of four with two minor children would have a hold of $60.00 per day X 4 people, or $240 per day. On a 7-day cruise, that would be a "hold" of $1680 for the entire group of four. Do the kids not go on shore excursions, or get a T-shirt when on board, or get a soda card, or go to the arcade, etc...

 

If people do not want this "hold" on a credit card, they can always bring cash and deposit that in their on board account, leaving their cc free of any type of "hold"; or they choose to pay with a debit card, tho' there will be a "hold" of some sort on that as well.

 

Either way, the cruise line wants to know that at the end of the cruise, they are going to get paid for all the expenses one incurs while on board. How do they expect to do that if they have no idea how, or if one can pay for it??

[Roz]

Mexico5,

 

That thought ran thru my head also. Suppose a medical emergency arises and you have trip insurance? If you're out of the country or on the ship, you would have to front the money and then be reimbursed by the insurance company after filing a claim when you get home. This could run a person hundreds or thousands of dollars. What if an emergency forced you to interrupt the cruise and fly home? Same deal - hundreds or thousands of dollars.

 

Like you said, best to have a cushion of some type, whether it be cash, debit card, or credit available on a credit card.

 

Roz

[kyriecat]

Yes there is no charge until the cruise ends, but we usually budget what our expenses will be.

 

IE: $1000 onboard (tips/pictures/drinks/bingo etc)

$1000 ashore (trinkets/goodies/gifts and yes Jewelery)

 

If I have a $3000 limit, and they put a hold on for $2500, my shore expenses have to drop. Means no new earrings for my DW. Maybe no Inuit sweater. (only hypothetical of course she will get new earrings)

 

I don't have a problem with a reasonable hold, but I think that $420 per person (even minors and infants) is overkill. If they tood the tips and doubled it... say $150 per person x 6 = $900 reasonable.

 

Holland America's claim that much of the time that they are out of comms range and can't readily get changes made to your account/creditcard are a sham. Every cruise ship I'm been on has a cash machine and I've never seen it down. Even through two hurricanes.

If you have a $3000 limit on your card and they put a hold of $2500 on it, then you are down to $500 in available credit. If you actually spend $1000 onboard, then you will probably get a call to the front desk on the last night to provide another means of payment because you won't have enough available credit to cover your onboard spending. Last year, I had the hold on my credit card still active when they ran the actual charges. For 14-day cruise for 2 people, the hold amount was $1680. We spent around $700 while onboard. The day we boarded, HAL put the $1680 hold on the card. When we got off the ship, card had $1680 hold + $700 transaction. It was 5 days later when the $1680 hold was removed and just the $700 transaction showed up. I don't know why the time for holds to be removed varies. Most drop in less than 24 hours. HALs has been the longest that I've noticed, but I usually only track my credit card every 2-3 days unless I'm on vacation. I check it daily then to make sure nothing unusual shows up on my account.

[jtl513]

If you have a $3000 limit on your card and they put a hold of $2500 on it, then you are down to $500 in available credit. If you actually spend $1000 onboard, then you will probably get a call to the front desk on the last night to provide another means of payment because you won't have enough available credit to cover your onboard spending.

No, you won't be asked for more hold until your on board spending nears the $2500 mark. HAL has reserved that much for themselves, and the $1000 comes out of that pot. How much you have "left" after their hold is irrelevant to HAL.

 

Yes there is no charge until the cruise ends, but we usually budget what our expenses will be.

 

IE: $1000 onboard (tips/pictures/drinks/bingo etc)

$1000 ashore (trinkets/goodies/gifts and yes Jewelery)

 

If I have a $3000 limit, and they put a hold on for $2500, my shore expenses have to drop. Means no new earrings for my DW. Maybe no Inuit sweater. (only hypothetical of course she will get new earrings)

 

I don't have a problem with a reasonable hold, but I think that $420 per person (even minors and infants) is overkill. If they tood the tips and doubled it... say $150 per person x 6 = $900 reasonable.

 

Holland America's claim that much of the time that they are out of comms range and can't readily get changes made to your account/creditcard are a sham. Every cruise ship I'm been on has a cash machine and I've never seen it down. Even through two hurricanes.

I have a suggestion: get another low-limit ($3000 - $5000) credit card just for the purpose of placing the hold, leaving your usual card free for everything else. You don't have to leave the final charges on that same card if you don't want to.

 

BTW, HAL ships don't have ATMs.

[kyriecat]

No, you won't be asked for more hold until your on board spending nears the $2500 mark. HAL has reserved that much for themselves, and the $1000 comes out of that pot. How much you have "left" after their hold is irrelevant to HAL.

For whatever reason (front desk screwup?), on my card the $700 transaction amount was IN ADDITION to the $1680 hold amount. The hold amount was not reduced to $980 when the transaction was run. I've only had one cruise with them so I don't know if this is normal or not. When I viewed my transaction summary online it had the following:

 

Temporary authorization - Holland America - $1680

Posted transaction - Holland America - $700

 

My available credit was reduced by the temporary authorization ($1680) PLUS the posted transaction ($700) for 5 days after the cruise. After 5 days, the temporary authorization (hold) amount disappeared and my available credit amount was adjusted accordingly. I have enough available credit so having the hold and transaction amounts at the same time didn't cause the card to be rejected.

 

I use a Mastercard for my purchases. I noticed several people posting about using AMEX. I assume AMEX must not reduce your available credit by the hold amounts. For me, the benefits of AMEX aren't worth the $$$ annual fee that they charge for the cards.

 

The shock to many people (especially those who have sailed with other cruiselines) about HAL's pre-authorization policy is that they do hold much more than most of the other cruiselines. RC usually puts a $25 hold on my card (didn't matter if cruise was 3-days or 13-days, for 1 person or 2) but they didn't put one at all on my cruise in January. I don't know if it was an oversight or if they aren't running holds anymore. I didn't bother to ask. I don't remember what Celebrity did. I've only had 1 cruise with them. If they put a hold, it must not have been a large one or I would have remembered.

[jtl513]

For whatever reason (front desk screwup?), on my card the $700 transaction amount was IN ADDITION to the $1680 hold amount. The hold amount was not reduced to $980 when the transaction was run. I've only had one cruise with them so I don't know if this is normal or not. When I viewed my transaction summary online it had the following:

 

Temporary authorization - Holland America - $1680

Posted transaction - Holland America - $700

 

My available credit was reduced by the temporary authorization ($1680) PLUS the posted transaction ($700) for 5 days after the cruise. After 5 days, the temporary authorization (hold) amount disappeared and my available credit amount was adjusted accordingly.

Yes, many credit cards, including my Visa, do not release the hold immediately at the end of the cruise, so I will always see the actual final charge plus the "pending transaction" for the hold amount for a few days after I get home. Ideally, the hold should disappear the instant the charge is posted.

 

Your previous post said

"If you have a $3000 limit on your card and they put a hold of $2500 on it, then you are down to $500 in available credit. If you actually spend $1000 onboard, then you will probably get a call to the front desk on the last night to provide another means of payment because you won't have enough available credit to cover your onboard spending."

That's simply not true, because during the cruise your on-board spending is what is being protected by the hold, and you won't have to increase that (even on the night before debarkation) unless your spending nears the $2500, or in your case $1680. On final settlement you will not need to have a credit limit of $1680 plus $700.

[ironin]

When any cruise line/hotel/car rental agency charges a card it simultaneously releases any hold it placed. How long it takes for the hold to be removed is not up to them. Delays in processing are your card issuer/bank's responsiblity.

 

Here is a post on this very subject written just yesterday by a ship's hotel manager with 30+ years experience.

 

WRT: American Express, as there is no pre-set definitive spending limit, holds are irrelevant to purchasing power with the card. While you consider their annual fees too high, I value not having to think or worry about things like this or whether or not I ought to buy CDW when renting a car. As they say, membership has its privileges ;).

 

EDIT: Here's another post by the same person I mentioned above that you may find enlightening. It goes into more detail.

[kyriecat]

Yes, many credit cards, including my Visa, do not release the hold immediately at the end of the cruise, so I will always see the actual final charge plus the "pending transaction" for the hold amount for a few days after I get home.

 

Your previous post said

"If you have a $3000 limit on your card and they put a hold of $2500 on it, then you are down to $500 in available credit. If you actually spend $1000 onboard, then you will probably get a call to the front desk on the last night to provide another means of payment because you won't have enough available credit to cover your onboard spending."

That's simply not true, because during the cruise your on-board spending is what is being protected by the hold, and you won't have to increase that (even on the night before debarkation) unless your spending nears the $2500, or in your case $1680.

If you only have $500 in available credit because of the $2500 hold then HAL tries to post a charge of $1000, doesn't the card get rejected? It's been several years since I was in college and had a low limit credit card, but that is what used to happen. I had to remember to pay for my books and tuition on different CC cycles because the two combined would put me over my limit.

 

Do the credit card companies have the software in place that reviews who has placed temporary authorizations/holds on the card and will allow a company with a hold to process a charge that puts you over your available credit limit but not another company? The hold amount and transaction amount on my card were combined to reduce my available credit limit. The hold amount WAS NOT reduced when the transaction was processed.

[jtl513]

If you only have $500 in available credit because of the $2500 hold then HAL tries to post a charge of $1000, doesn't the card get rejected?

No. Only if another business other than the one with the hold tries to charge too much will the charge be rejected. That's the purpose of the hold: if you tried to charge $1000 in a shop on shore it will be rejected. HAL can post any amount up to the $2500 that they have reserved for themselves. That does not "put you over" your credit limit.

 

If on the last night of the cruise you were to charge a huge amount for jewelry (or something) which when added to your other on-board charges exceeded the hold amount, then the next morning you will either have to come up with another credit card or cash ... or sign a promissory note.

 

Now, if after you get home, in the period until your credit card company finally erases the "pending transaction", you tried to make that same $1000 purchase, it might be questioned, but that can easily be cleared up at the point of sale by a phone call.

[pms4104]

I fail to see why the hold is such a jaw-dropper to some.

 

HAL makes no secret of their policy ... as I posted earlier, it is clearly shown on their website, as well as on the online checkin area. And, it does say per person ... it doesn't state per adult or per adult who plans to spend onboard.

 

If, during the planning stages of one's trip, this policy is offensive or causes distress or financial hardship ... it would seem, based on those who posted that other lines may not put a hold on a card, there are other options out there. So, yes, the planning stage is also a time to educate onself before making a commitment to a trip.

 

I would be curious if the lines that seemingly do not have a credit card hold policy experience a higher deadbeat rate than HAL. Sorry, can't recall if when Bruce Muzz mentioned a 10% deadbeat rate if that was for HAL or the industry as a whole.

[jtl513]

Sorry, can't recall if when Bruce Muzz mentioned a 10% deadbeat rate if that was for HAL or the industry as a whole.

He said "On average 10% of cruisers on every cruise ..." so I take that to mean industry-wide.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=20443514

[catl331]

If you only have $500 in available credit because of the $2500 hold then HAL tries to post a charge of $1000, doesn't the card get rejected?

That would make no sense at all, since HAL would often be blocking themselves from getting their money. What would be the point of having a hold in that case?

[English_in_Spain]

I think the idea of a hold is a good one and protects both HAL and the passenger. I know that Royal Caribbean place a hold but they are not so up front about it as HAL.

The only thing I think is wrong is the blanket $60 pp per day. I think there should be a reduced amount for children who would probably not spend so much (apart from the $11 HSC).

The way it is at the moment makes it a lot for a family, especially on a longer cruise (say 14 days).

[jtl513]

The only thing I think is wrong is the blanket $60 pp per day. I think there should be a reduced amount for children who would probably not spend so much (apart from the $11 HSC).

As I said a few posts back, HAL has decided that $60 per person is an average, probably because many people don't pre-pay for excursions. If a child is taken on an $89 excursion every 2nd day, or a $149 one every third day, added to the $11/day ...

[AZNative2000]

Yet another reminder why I'm a happy American Express cardholder: never having to worry about this issue.

 

Us too. We choose to put our hold on AX and pay with another card for the "points". Over time, those points can pay for the airfare to a cruise port:D.

[English_in_Spain]

As I said a few posts back, HAL has decided that $60 per person is an average, probably because many people don't pre-pay for excursions. If a child is taken on an $89 excursion every 2nd day, or a $149 one every third day, added to the $11/day ...

 

Do people spend that much each day on HAL excursions (average $49) - especially if they have young children?

 

It means that those who do not take these excursions are suffering. Maybe excurions could be treated differently - ie not within the hold

[kyriecat]

No. Only if another business other than the one with the hold tries to charge too much will the charge be rejected. That's the purpose of the hold: if you tried to charge $1000 in a shop on shore it will be rejected. HAL can post any amount up to the $2500 that they have reserved for themselves. That does not "put you over" your credit limit.

 

If on the last night of the cruise you were to charge a huge amount for jewelry (or something) which when added to your other on-board charges exceeded the hold amount, then the next morning you will either have to come up with another credit card or cash ... or sign a promissory note.

 

Now, if after you get home, in the period until your credit card company finally erases the "pending transaction", you tried to make that same $1000 purchase, it might be questioned, but that can easily be cleared up at the point of sale by a phone call.

I read through the "fine print" of my credit card terms and talked with a customer service person this morning about "pre-authorized charges" (holds) and how they affect the available balance. It's not explained very well in the card terms. I was passed through 4 people before I got to someone who (I think) understood the questions. His explanation was different than yours regarding how the holds affect your available credit.

 

HAL puts a temporary authorization (hold) on your card of $60 per day for each person who can use the account. The amount of available credit on your card is reduced by the hold amount. When HAL processes the transaction, that amount also reduces your available credit. If the HAL hold amount PLUS the actual transaction amount adds up to more than your available credit, they will allow the HAL transaction to go through. However, they will add an "overlimit" charge on the transaction because the available credit limit was exceeded, even though it was caused by a hold. It could also cause other charges to be rejected until the hold amount from HAL is released. You can call and request transactions be processed while the hold is still in place, but those charges will also incur overlimit fees. Hotel or rental car holds will have the same problems if you are close to your limit.

 

He said the hold amounts are removed 24-48 hours after the merchant notifies them to release the hold. Some merchants do not release the hold when they process the transaction. Hotels, rental cars, and cruiselines might keep the hold in place for a few days in case they find damage to the room/car. That would explain why my hold from HAL took 5 days to disappear while a hold from a gas station "pay-at-the pump" is usually gone the next day.

 

It sounds like the best choice for people who have low available credit amounts is to plan on paying their account in cash or pay extra on their credit card so they have a negative balance before leaving on their vacation.

 

English in Spain:

I think the reason that Royal Caribbean is less forthcoming about their hold amount is the hold amount is so small. They only held $25 when I was on a 13-night cruise. They also held $25 when I was on a 3-night cruise. On my cruise in January, they didn't put a hold at all on my card. That's quite a bit different than HAL's $60 pp/day.

[Randyk47]

Yet another reminder why I'm a happy American Express cardholder: never having to worry about this issue.

 

Me too. Been with them since 1974 and while over the years I've paid all those membership fees I've never had a problem with them or charges to my card so for me it's been well worth it. With all the travel I've done worldwide I consider it one of the best decisions that I've made.

[jtl513]

If the HAL hold amount PLUS the actual transaction amount adds up to more than your available credit, they will allow the HAL transaction to go through. However, they will add an "overlimit" charge on the transaction because the available credit limit was exceeded, even though it was caused by a hold.

That's ludicrous. I would fiercely fight such an "overlimit" charge. Your limit can't be exceeded by a transaction that is still pending because it hasn't become a charge yet and never will once the actual charge has been posted. :eek: :eek:

[kyriecat]

That's ludicrous. I would fiercely fight such an "overlimit" charge. Your limit can't be exceeded by a transaction that is still pending because it hasn't become a charge yet and never will once the actual charge has been posted. :eek: :eek:

I agree. I told him that I didn't think it was right that they could charge an overlimit fee for that situation. He said that it is clearly spelled out in the terms and conditions that available credit is the credit limit minus posted transactions, pending transactions, and pre-authorization (hold) amounts. They even have a bolded note to verify the pre-authorization amounts from hotels, rental cars, etc. that will affect the available balance. I found the definition of available credit and the note about pre-authorizations in the terms so that is true. He also said that in the past they would often not charge the overlimit fee or waive it when asked for transactions where the overlimit was caused by a pre-authorization. With the new government regulations, he said they are not as lenient about additional charges. :rolleyes:

 

I have a few friends/family members who feel that having a single credit card with a limit of no more than they can pay in a month is best. They pay almost everything with cash or debit cards. They think I'm crazy for having more than one CC with high limits and rarely pay with anything but a credit card.

[Boytjie]

It means that those who do not take these excursions are suffering.

 

A hold on a credit card is suffering? :confused: :rolleyes:

[cruz chic]

I'd be curious to find out what type of accomodations on the ship that people have that are so cash strapped. For the longest time I've had inside rooms because I didn't feel comfortable spending tons of money. I have a lot of available credit so this is never an issue for me. I do not want to pay for a deadbeat that walks away from charges after having a grand old time. Maybe people should settle for a lesser room if they are so completely cash strapped.

[CowPrincess]

I'd be curious to find out what type of accomodations on the ship that people have that are so cash strapped. For the longest time I've had inside rooms because I didn't feel comfortable spending tons of money. I have a lot of available credit so this is never an issue for me. I do not want to pay for a deadbeat that walks away from charges after having a grand old time. Maybe people should settle for a lesser room if they are so completely cash strapped.

 

 

I totally agree. As you know, we travel in the "cheap seats" too :) so that we can spend whatever we want, especially on shorex. I can't imagine paying for a balcony or higher, and then using credit to cover shorex or onshore meals or jewelry or any of the other associated costs. Or IMHO nearly as bad, sitting on our balcony for the entire cruise because we can't afford kayaking, snorkelling, jewelry :) , etc.

[luvs2travl]

I'd be curious to find out what type of accomodations on the ship that people have that are so cash strapped. For the longest time I've had inside rooms because I didn't feel comfortable spending tons of money. I have a lot of available credit so this is never an issue for me. I do not want to pay for a deadbeat that walks away from charges after having a grand old time. Maybe people should settle for a lesser room if they are so completely cash strapped.

 

Can't one just request that their credit card limit be raised?? :confused: :confused:

[CowPrincess]

Can't one just request that their credit card limit be raised?? :confused: :confused:

 

From what I understand from my American friends, that now can be a lot more difficult than it was in the past.