TA Rebates

[Quester2]

Thanks so much, all of you, for giving me so much information and your sincere advice. Now that we're ready to start cruising regularly, I'll do it armed with your wisdom.

[gillianrose]

And in some bookings, competitive TA's can provide 12-15% rebates depending on the leverage their travel consortium (virtuoso, Ensemble, Signature) also brings to the table w/regards your booking.

 

Off of which price do you expect 12-15% rebate? Surely not the gross price?

 

How much money do you think your travel agent should receive?

[rallydave]

Off of which price do you expect 12-15% rebate? Surely not the gross price?

 

How much money do you think your travel agent should receive?

 

Since Wes and I use the same TA and are pretty much in agreement on this subject, will provide my answer.

 

The rebate should be based on the same dollar value that is the basis for the TA's commission.

 

As to how much money the TA should receive, that is an impossible question to answer. In no way would specify a dollar amount to the TA to be rebated. The amount or percentage should be determined by what the TA feels comfortable rebating. Expect the TA to make money just like a car dealer but, only the TA and car dealer know how much they can discount the deal or rebate and still remain in business and make sufficient money.

 

Its a straight forward business deal with the dealer/TA holding the upper hand as only they know the true cost number and how much they can discount. The consumer has lots of places to go for information on cost/commissions/rebates however will almost never get the true number.

[Travelcat2]

Just wondering how Regent feels about their customers bragging on CruiseCritic about the fact that their TAs rebate more than double the amount that they are want. The result of this could be Regent making stronger and more enforceable rules. "Me thinks" that some of you are cutting off your nose to spite your face:eek:

[Cheekyrn1]

Dang I am ignorant...have never used a TA for anything. I have always done my own bookings for everything and now I read I can get money back if I use a TA? Will have to look into this and find a reliable TA

[Travelcat2]

Dang I am ignorant...have never used a TA for anything. I have always done my own bookings for everything and now I read I can get money back if I use a TA? Will have to look into this and find a reliable TA

 

You are not ignorant;) But, by reading CruiseCritic you are becoming better informed. While it is against CruiseCritic guidelines to recommend a TA, I can recommend that you do a Google search for luxury cruise travel agents. Or, there are some travel consortiums that we can name such as Signatures and Virtuoso. Some luxury cruise TA's give rebates and/or OBCs (on board credits). Do some research and you should end up with great benefits.

[naples007]

Regent, Oceania Cruises Institute New Anti-Rebating Policy

 

 

By Theresa Norton Masek

April 24, 2012 10:32 PM

.

 

Prestige Cruise Holdings, which owns Regent Seven Seas Cruises and Oceania Cruises, is instituting a new anti-rebating policy effective May 1. In a letter to travel agents, the companies said that rebating is “detrimental to our collective economics,” results in lower margins for agents and confuses consumers.

 

“In recent weeks, we reached out to many of our agency partners to solicit opinions and suggestions on how to address the important subject of rebating,” the company said in the memo announcing the policy. “What came through loud and clear was that the agency community is looking for more leadership from suppliers to preserve pricing integrity and to reduce the advantage some agencies have over others in being able to compete for business via price once another agency has already invested considerable resources to secure and close a sale. We learned that it’s not just the mom-and-pop agencies that are adversely impacted by rebating … that many large agencies are reluctant rebaters who would much prefer to reinvest a portion of their commission into servicing their existing business and to actively promote and secure new business rather than giving it away to savvy shoppers in rebating situations.”

 

The new policy will prohibit travel agencies from advertising or promoting Regent and Oceania cruises “at a price or at a percentage off which is less than the cruise line’s published price or the pricing contained in an active group contract issued to the travel agency. Published price is defined as that which appears on the cruise line’s website.”

 

A travel agency may advertise amenities provided their total value does not exceed 5 percent of the cruise fare being advertised, the policy states. The policy also states that if a reservation is transferred to another travel agency (or is cancelled and rebooked) within 30 days of the reservation date and before final payment, the receiving travel agency will be paid a 10 percent commission. If a reservation is transferred to a travel agency (or is cancelled and rebooked) more than 30 days after the booking was made or anytime inside the final payment window, a 10 percent commission will be paid to the originating travel agency and no commission will be paid to the receiving travel agency.

 

The cruise lines said they reserve the right to reduce commissions and/or marketing funds, cancel or deny group contracts or take any other actions it deems appropriate if a travel agency violates this policy. “We realize that there are many different viewpoints on the issue of rebating and that any cruise line’s policy will be met with praise by some and criticism by others,” the Prestige policy memo reads. “Hopefully, having developed this policy with input from numerous travel partners, we’ve found an approach that will significantly reduce rebating and protect the economics of those agencies committed to building their business based on the quality of the service they provide their customers.”

[cruiseluv]

Sigh, here we go again....

 

Naples007, Please read the press release you yourself posted. Actually, let me quote from the press release:

 

"The new policy will prohibit travel agencies from advertising or promoting Regent and Oceania cruises “at a price or at a percentage off which is less than the cruise line’s published price or the pricing contained in an active group contract issued to the travel agency. Published price is defined as that which appears on the cruise line’s website.”

 

A travel agency may advertise amenities provided their total value does not exceed 5 percent of the cruise fare being advertised, the policy states."

 

Naples 007, "Advertising or promoting" are key words here. Also, did you notice that they also say the agencies can ADVERTISE amenities provided their value does not exceed 5%?

Seems to me you didn't read carefully the press release you posted.

 

No need to give us your warning of NOT ALLOWED AT ALL!! in caps. If you're smart, you'll go look for an agent that gives some perks. If not, that's your prerogative.

[hondorner]

Regent, Oceania Cruises Institute New Anti-Rebating Policy

 

 

By Theresa Norton Masek

April 24, 2012 10:32 PM

.

 

Prestige Cruise Holdings, which owns Regent Seven Seas Cruises and Oceania Cruises, is instituting a new anti-rebating policy...<snip>...The new policy will prohibit travel agencies from advertising or promoting Regent and Oceania cruises “at a price or at a percentage off which is less than the cruise line’s published price or the pricing contained in an active group contract issued to the travel agency. Published price is defined as that which appears on the cruise line’s website.”

 

A travel agency may advertise amenities provided their total value does not exceed 5 percent of the cruise fare being advertised...<snip>...

 

This policy has been quoted several times on this forum (and in this thread), and the key is what the agencies can advertise. It's their businesses, and they can do whatever they want --- as long as they don't advertise a lower price, and don't advertise amenities which exceed 5% of the published price.

 

This is common in business. My business, before I retired, was ownership of a company which, among other things, retailed high end barbecue grills. Several of my manufacturers prohibited the advertisement of lower than published prices. The price I actually charged once the customer was in my store was my business. The margin from the published price was 40% to 50%, and I was able to comfortably make a decent profit at a lower margin. I just could not advertise a lower price.

 

My personal ethics did not permit me to use common work-arounds like, "The manufacturer will not permit us to advertise our price". I just didn't mention price at all in my ads. It didn't matter -- savvy shoppers were sure to ask for a lower price. Of course, I loved the naive customers who were willing (even anxious) to pay full price!

 

As to the question of "how much should a TA (or any business) make?", that's up to the business, not the clients. If they don't want to rebate, they won't.

[WesW]

well said Don and thanks for providing useful context.

[nyfeds]

This policy has been quoted several times on this forum (and in this thread), and the key is what the agencies can advertise. It's their businesses, and they can do whatever they want --- as long as they don't advertise a lower price, and don't advertise amenities which exceed 5% of the published price.

 

This is common in business. My business, before I retired, was ownership of a company which, among other things, retailed high end barbecue grills. Several of my manufacturers prohibited the advertisement of lower than published prices. The price I actually charged once the customer was in my store was my business. The margin from the published price was 40% to 50%, and I was able to comfortably make a decent profit at a lower margin. I just could not advertise a lower price.

 

My personal ethics did not permit me to use common work-arounds like, "The manufacturer will not permit us to advertise our price". I just didn't mention price at all in my ads. It didn't matter -- savvy shoppers were sure to ask for a lower price. Of course, I loved the naive customers who were willing (even anxious) to pay full price!

 

As to the question of "how much should a TA (or any business) make?", that's up to the business, not the clients. If they don't want to rebate, they won't.

 

Thanks, Don, for wording this so well. As to your comment pertaining to "naive customers," hopefully this dialogue will enlighten those who believed that rebating doesn't exist when it comes to working with TA's and other businesses. The art of negotiation should never be overlooked or dismissed.

[Travelcat2]

This policy has been quoted several times on this forum (and in this thread), and the key is what the agencies can advertise. It's their businesses, and they can do whatever they want --- as long as they don't advertise a lower price, and don't advertise amenities which exceed 5% of the published price.

 

This is common in business. My business, before I retired, was ownership of a company which, among other things, retailed high end barbecue grills. Several of my manufacturers prohibited the advertisement of lower than published prices. The price I actually charged once the customer was in my store was my business. The margin from the published price was 40% to 50%, and I was able to comfortably make a decent profit at a lower margin. I just could not advertise a lower price.

 

My personal ethics did not permit me to use common work-arounds like, "The manufacturer will not permit us to advertise our price". I just didn't mention price at all in my ads. It didn't matter -- savvy shoppers were sure to ask for a lower price. Of course, I loved the naive customers who were willing (even anxious) to pay full price!

 

As to the question of "how much should a TA (or any business) make?", that's up to the business, not the clients. If they don't want to rebate, they won't.

 

I also agree with your post (see -- miracles to happen:-) My earlier point refers to the fact that there is an apparent trend (started by Carnival) to end rebating. Regent, IMO, (not sure about Oceania) meekly made the statement that rebates above 5% cannot be advertised. They know that rebates above that amount do exist. My concern is with a growing number of people doing their own advertising on CruiseCritic and elsewhere that they can receive more than double the advertised rebate.

 

I am all for rebating -- the more the better........ however, there is a concern that some TA's are undercutting others, stealing customers, etc. IMO, this may not be the best time to put the spotlight on rebating so help insure that they do not all diappear.

[gillianrose]

Since Wes and I use the same TA and are pretty much in agreement on this subject, will provide my answer.

 

The rebate should be based on the same dollar value that is the basis for the TA's commission.

 

As to how much money the TA should receive, that is an impossible question to answer. In no way would specify a dollar amount to the TA to be rebated. The amount or percentage should be determined by what the TA feels comfortable rebating. Expect the TA to make money just like a car dealer but, only the TA and car dealer know how much they can discount the deal or rebate and still remain in business and make sufficient money.

 

Its a straight forward business deal with the dealer/TA holding the upper hand as only they know the true cost number and how much they can discount. The consumer has lots of places to go for information on cost/commissions/rebates however will almost never get the true number.

 

OK, to put it in real dollars, if a TA earns $1,000 in commission, do you expect 10-15% of that amount? i.e. $100 to $150?

 

Or do you expect the TA to give you more of their commission than that, and if so, how much?

[nana541]

Just wondering how Regent feels about their customers bragging on CruiseCritic about the fact that their TAs rebate more than double the amount that they are want. The result of this could be Regent making stronger and more enforceable rules. "Me thinks" that some of you are cutting off your nose to spite your face:eek:

 

I have to agree with TC on this issue....this entire conversation will result in exactly this..... While I was happy to be educated to the options available, enough has been said about TA rebates.

[newlondon]

This is an extremely sensitive subject. I asked my TA to please read the thread, her response was emotional. If a TA does not work for a large or specialized firm; and gives high quality service, including booking with establishments such as French B&Bs that don't commission; the service given is not financially rewarded. I am not changing TAs, but she was particularly upset by the large on line agenciesthat profit by volume rather than service. I understand this. It seems unfair to me that a high quality TA can't compete on price due to size and yet a high volume agency scarfs up the price shoppers.JMO

[rallydave]

OK, to put it in real dollars, if a TA earns $1,000 in commission, do you expect 10-15% of that amount? i.e. $100 to $150?

 

Or do you expect the TA to give you more of their commission than that, and if so, how much?

 

 

No, it's not 10-15% of the commission; it is 10-15% of the commissionable amount of the cruise. IOW, if the cruise costs $20K, and the value that the TA receives is 17% of say $18,000 or $3060, what we are saying is that the rebate is between $1800 (10% of $18000) and $2700 (15% of 18000) Would be surprised to get the 15% but, 10% is easily received from a number of TA's I am familiar with and more than likely a lot more. I myself would question a TA giving 15% or really anything much more than 10% but, that's just me. The TA has to make a living and the transaction needs to be fair and reasonable to both parties.

 

Don't consider your example of 10-15% of the commission value to be fair and reasonable either. This is simply one person's opinion.

[Roland4]

A last comment. You can put any spin/interpretation that suits you on the use of the word "advertise", but the intent of the policy is to limit cash booking incentives (OBC/Rebate etc) to 5% of the cost of the cruise. While I often don`t agree with what TC posts, if you rebate hounds want to kill this particular Golden Goose this thread is certainly the right way to go about bringing it to Regent`s attention.

[rallydave]

A last comment. You can put any spin/interpretation that suits you on the use of the word "advertise", but the intent of the policy is to limit cash booking incentives (OBC/Rebate etc) to 5% of the cost of the cruise. While I often don`t agree with what TC posts, if you rebate hounds want to kill this particular Golden Goose this thread is certainly the right way to go about bringing it to Regent`s attention.

 

1. Highly doubt discussing Rebates on CC will bring anything to Regent's attention that they don't already know about. Otherwise, why would they put the new policy into place.

 

2. There is no way you or anyone else on this board can know Regent's "intent". No reason the leave intent as a guess when it would be so simple to be completely explicit.

 

3. If Regent wanted to completely eliminate rebates of over 5% it would have been simple for them to simply state "no rebates over 5%" but, they didn't.

 

4. Regent discussed the Rebate issues with many of the TA's providing rebates over 5% and chose to write the policy the way they did and all the discussions in the world won't provide Regent any more information than they already have.

 

5. I too don't often agree with many of tc's comments and in this case she has been on both sides of the issue so believe the comment about not discussing this issue is much ado about nothing while her support for the rebates is something I can agree with.

 

6. As tc often states, we are posting to help the newbies and from some of the comments, we have done a good job informing both newbies and experienced cruisers how to not leave a substantial number of dollars on the table if they choose when booking their cruises and this applies to both Regent/Oceania as well as most other cruise lines.

[Travelcat2]

rallydave.......rallydave.......rallydave...... how you do twist my words. :rolleyes: The world is not black and white and neither are the opinions of CC members. This thread has been all over the place -- not off-topic but posters trying to give advice, TA's giving reasons why they do or do not rebate (this is where my eyes glazed over and I felt that this was much ado about nothing) followed by rehashing and rehashing the same information. There were some brilliant and even funny posts on this thread but then the information about Carnival Cruise Lines came out and, IMO, it would be in our best interest to stop talking about 10-15% rebates.

 

There are two facts (not opinions) that you may want to consider (or not):

 

1. Carnival's anti-rebating policy went into effect August 1, 2012.

 

2. Regent does read CruiseCritic.

 

Draw your own conclusions.

[rallydave]

rallydave.......rallydave.......rallydave...... how you do twist my words. :rolleyes: The world is not black and white and neither are the opinions of CC members. This thread has been all over the place -- not off-topic but posters trying to give advice, TA's giving reasons why they do or do not rebate (this is where my eyes glazed over and I felt that this was much ado about nothing) followed by rehashing and rehashing the same information. There were some brilliant and even funny posts on this thread but then the information about Carnival Cruise Lines came out and, IMO, it would be in our best interest to stop talking about 10-15% rebates.

 

There are two facts (not opinions) that you may want to consider (or not):

 

1. Carnival's anti-rebating policy went into effect August 1, 2012.

 

2. Regent does read CruiseCritic.

 

Draw your own conclusions.

 

I don't have to and don't twist your words as your many personalities do that very well all by yourself.

 

As to your two facts, so what does that have to do with providing information to newbies as well as experienced cruisers with methods for saving money on most cruise lines at the present time??

 

And as I previously said, if you took the time to read the whole post, the fact (your words) that Regent reads cruise critic doesn't change what we are posting one iota. Again, all of the information that is being posted is and has been known by Regent for years and was discussed with many TA's before the new policy was put into effect in April. Posting here will do absolutely nothing to add, subtract or leave alone Regent's policy regarding rebates and that is a fact as well!!!

[Travelcat2]

Posting here will do absolutely nothing to add, subtract or leave alone Regent's policy regarding rebates and that is a fact as well!!!

 

A fact? Okay -- prove it!

Note to those new to the Regent board. Regent set forth a policy early last year that was to take effect this year. After thousands of posts from CC members, speaking with TA's and reportedly losing some business, the policy was dramatically modified prior to taking effect in April of this year. Ignoring the power of Regent customers is, IMO, naive. Our input has shown to give results (both positive and negative).

[fluckey]

I have to agree with rallydave. TA commissions may change in the future and rebates may change, but providing more information to consumers about the cruise line/agency business model can only be a benefit to those consumers. How else can one make informed choices about the price he/she pays for the TA services provided? The total pool of TA commissions for Regent or any other luxury cruise line is a pretty big pot of money. TA's will no doubt look to preserve their share. Thank goodness we have the internet and forums like this one to shed some light in an area where darkness reigned until quite recently.

[rlimbacher]

I am so glad we are all out of the darkness and into the light. We can just hope that the luxury cruise line industry will be as fabulous as the airlines once we all get out best rate! Hopefully it will be the minority of luxury cruisers that will make their purchases based on what they can "get back" from their travel agent. Maybe Regent will take notice and make a firm policy change to restrict these agencies from rebating over 5%. After all, it is their product to control distribution.

[hondorner]

If Regent were to make a blanket prohibition against rebating, I'd be interested to hear how they intend to enforce it...

[rlimbacher]

They would enforce it exactly as we did at American Airlines. If we found a travel agent rebating our product, we gave them warning. If they continued, we pulled their ability to sell our product. Travel agents rebating does not move market share for Regent, it only moves share between distribution channels. This is still Regent's product, just like an airline, and they can decide how it should be represented.