Help please! Birth certificate wrong name spelling= difficulty getting Passport

[sail7seas]

Should have said in last post:

I have called numerous phone numbers trying to track down US Customs AT the Manhattan Pier. Finally I got a customs Officer who repeatedly stated that it was HAL who had the final say as to who got by scrutiny to board, not Customs. This was the exact opposite of what 2 HAL reps stated to us. He said that Customs only cared who CAME BACK INTO THE USA.

 

I called HAL again and was again assured that it was Homeland Security rules through their agents NOT HAL agents at the pier. Sigh..... I just wanted to talk to a body that would, off the record, maybe give piece of mind that a situation like this might pass muster so to speak and he would be allowed to board.

 

 

Just to avoid possible confusion......

 

It is Customs that inspects and is concerned with things that are being brought into the country.

 

It is Immigration that is concerned with the inspection of persons entering the country.

 

Both are a part of Homeland Security.

The two divisions are often confused and spoken of interchangeably but they have distinctly different missions.

 

You are not examined by U.S. Officials of Customs or Immigration when you exit for your cruise. Your travel documents are examined by HAL mostly to assure you will be permitted entry to the countries you are visiting and ultimately into the country where you will be disembarking..... in this case U.S.

They are stuck with you if any of the entry ports deny you admission. Therefore, they are careful to know and require proper travel documents of all persons wishing to board their ships. They have to be sure you will be permitted back into the U.S. when your cruise is over.

 

The ground staff for HAL examines the documents with knowledge of what Immigration Officials will require for your re-entry. HAL does not make the rules as to requirement; they only anticipate what problems could occur with someone's travel documents when it is time to re-enter. They have done this for enough years with enough Immigration Officials to be very well versed in the requirements.

 

Oddly HAL reps and 'Customs' were pretty much correct in what they told you.... but not exactly.

 

I have been told that every cruise there is someone who is left behind and not permitted to board because their documents are not in order.

 

It is the same with airlines. They verify travel documents when you check in for international flights as they are stuck with you if you cannot enter at the country to which you are flying.

 

 

I so hope the situation gets resolved well and soon.

Best wishes.

 

[trvlcrzy]

What I can't figure out- the letter came from the passport office, would the passport office be correcting the PA license?

 

Perhaps, the Passport Office is willing to issue the passport in his correct name with corroborating evidence that he has been using this name for 15+ years (marriage certificate, divorce decree, etc).

 

If he is issued a passport, he can use that as his boarding document, and he doesn't have to produce the confusion of the driver's license and the birth certificate.

[Sunshine91]

Should have said in last post:

I have called numerous phone numbers trying to track down US Customs AT the Manhattan Pier. Finally I got a customs Officer who repeatedly stated that it was HAL who had the final say as to who got by scrutiny to board, not Customs. This was the exact opposite of what 2 HAL reps stated to us. He said that Customs only cared who CAME BACK INTO THE USA.

 

I called HAL again and was again assured that it was Homeland Security rules through their agents NOT HAL agents at the pier. Sigh..... I just wanted to talk to a body that would, off the record, maybe give piece of mind that a situation like this might pass muster so to speak and he would be allowed to board.

 

Eileen - I sure feel for your friends. What an awful situation. You're an angel to be helping them.

 

I think the problem with finding a body to give you the comfort you wanted, even if off the record, is that then you would likely have someone's name. And on embarkation day, your cruising friends would be able to say that So&So said that the documentation they had is acceptable.

 

If you were the HAL rep or the Immigration agent, would YOU go out on the limb? They had no way to know if you were recording the conversation or not (I'm sure not). :)

 

If the passport doesn't come thru, how about asking your friend take as much American-citizen-identifying documentation with him as possible - SS card; Medicare card; voter registration card; was he in the service? does he have a military retiree ID card? take that too; perhaps it can't hurt to take any early-life documentation like a baptismal record showing the spelling of his name at that time? to show that it has never changed, as far as he is concerned.

 

Good luck. It may all be moot. The passport may come thru. The HAL check-in rep may not even notice. I hope they enjoy their cruise & appreciate all the help you've given. :)

[irisheileen]

Perhaps, the Passport Office is willing to issue the passport in his correct name with corroborating evidence that he has been using this name for 15+ years (marriage certificate, divorce decree, etc).

 

If he is issued a passport, he can use that as his boarding document, and he doesn't have to produce the confusion of the driver's license and the birth certificate.

 

Yes, I'm hoping that the passport office will issue it (in time) as you stated. They also are going to overnight a BC correction form on Monday, including a self addressed prepaid, overnight envelope to the Dept of Vital Statistics. They have included a very nice letter of request mentioning the cruise.

 

I just have to believe that ONE of them will return in time before Aug 5th!! They will use whichever comes, otherwise they will have to take their chances with US Immigration at NYC pier. They then will be bringing several photo ID's like military and of course DL. Might as well bring SS card. Anybody have any other ID's ideas?

 

Thanks everyone!

[CtheW0rld]

Perhaps, the Passport Office is willing to issue the passport in his correct name with corroborating evidence that he has been using this name for 15+ years (marriage certificate, divorce decree, etc).

 

If he is issued a passport, he can use that as his boarding document, and he doesn't have to produce the confusion of the driver's license and the birth certificate.

 

i think that is what is happening, too. i take it as a very good sign that they are asking for additional paperwork.

[irisheileen]

i think that is what is happening, too. i take it as a very good sign that they are asking for additional paperwork.

 

From your lips top God's ears! Actually, I have been praying over the situation. :)

[irisheileen]

Eileen - I sure feel for your friends. What an awful situation. You're an angel to be helping them.

 

I think the problem with finding a body to give you the comfort you wanted, even if off the record, is that then you would likely have someone's name. And on embarkation day, your cruising friends would be able to say that So&So said that the documentation they had is acceptable.

 

If you were the HAL rep or the Immigration agent, would YOU go out on the limb? They had no way to know if you were recording the conversation or not (I'm sure not). :)

 

If the passport doesn't come thru, how about asking your friend take as much American-citizen-identifying documentation with him as possible - SS card; Medicare card; voter registration card; was he in the service? does he have a military retiree ID card? take that too; perhaps it can't hurt to take any early-life documentation like a baptismal record showing the spelling of his name at that time? to show that it has never changed, as far as he is concerned.

 

Good luck. It may all be moot. The passport may come thru. The HAL check-in rep may not even notice. I hope they enjoy their cruise & appreciate all the help you've given. :)

 

Oops, just seeing your post now. Thanks so much for your kind words and thoughts. I'll list your suggestions for them to bring to the pier. and you are right- the check-in may not even notice. I'll have to coach them NOT TO BRING IT UP THEMSELVES!!! LOL!:p They can have alot of doc's at the ready.

[Salacia]

Oops, just seeing your post now. Thanks so much for your kind words and thoughts. I'll list your suggestions for them to bring to the pier. and you are right- the check-in may not even notice. I'll have to coach them NOT TO BRING IT UP THEMSELVES!!! LOL!:p They can have alot of doc's at the ready.

 

Sorry, but I don't understand: you wrote that "I'll have to coach them NOT TO BRING IT UP THEMSELVES!!! LOL!:p" and yet, you brought it up on a public forum: not that anyone from Holland America or Homeland Security reads this forum. Or that they would even notice someone who decided to "coach" anyone on how to by-pass security. Just make sure you "coach" them on re-entry - and good luck with that.

 

When it come to matters of security, this -> :p <-emoticom bothers me.

 

 

Salacia

[cruz chic]

Sorry, but I don't understand: you wrote that "I'll have to coach them NOT TO BRING IT UP THEMSELVES!!! LOL!:p" and yet, you brought it up on a public forum: not that anyone from Holland America or Homeland Security reads this forum. Or that they would even notice someone who decided to "coach" anyone on how to by-pass security. Just make sure you "coach" them on re-entry - and good luck with that.

 

When it come to matters of security, this -> :p <-emoticom bothers me.

 

 

Salacia

Hal does read these boards. They have been known to post from time to time. Some posters hae even been contacted about what they wrote on this board.

[irisheileen]

Sorry, but I don't understand: you wrote that "I'll have to coach them NOT TO BRING IT UP THEMSELVES!!! LOL!:p" and yet, you brought it up on a public forum: not that anyone from Holland America or Homeland Security reads this forum. Or that they would even notice someone who decided to "coach" anyone on how to by-pass security. Just make sure you "coach" them on re-entry - and good luck with that.

 

When it come to matters of security, this -> :p <-emoticom bothers me.

 

 

Salacia

 

It was a lighthearted attempt at humor.

 

Bringing it up on a FRIENDLY forum is certainly different then announcing it to the officials.

 

I don't see anything wrong with telling them not to point out the typo to the officials at the pier. Maybe they wouldn't notice?

 

Security is in place for nefarious persons --not innocent citizens with typos who just want to vacation after a couple of decades of no vacations.

 

Curious- if you were in their position with a fully paid cruise and a typo that could send them home, would YOU make a point of pointing it out to the officials? Or would you hope for the best and just be prepared, as I have coached them, to produce more ID evidence?

[msmayor]

It was a lighthearted attempt at humor.

 

Bringing it up on a FRIENDLY forum is certainly different then announcing it to the officials.

 

I don't see anything wrong with telling them not to point out the typo to the officials at the pier. Maybe they wouldn't notice?

 

Security is in place for nefarious persons --not innocent citizens with typos who just want to vacation after a couple of decades of no vacations.

 

Curious- if you were in their position with a fully paid cruise and a typo that could send them home, would YOU make a point of pointing it out to the officials? Or would you hope for the best and just be prepared, as I have coached them, to produce more ID evidence?

 

Very true...except that security doesn't always know who is innocent and who is nefarious. They must assume that ALL are out to cause trouble unless they have clear and convincing proof of ID.

 

I think in this day and age its vitally important for everyone, whether traveling or not, to double-check their paperwork and make sure that their ID information all 'matches'.

 

My father discovered an issue with his birth certificate a few years ago when a cruise was booked to Alaska. It took nearly six months to correct and reams of supporting evidence regarding his true and correct name.

[Salacia]

PARTIAL QUOTE

...

Curious- if you were in their position with a fully paid cruise and a typo that could send them home, would YOU make a point of pointing it out to the officials? Or would you hope for the best and just be prepared, as I have coached them, to produce more ID evidence?

 

Frankly, I wouldn't leave the country without a valid passport, and I wouldn't book a cruise without having my passport valid for at least 6 months after the cruise was to end.

 

BTW, your friend has to hope that not only is discrepancy not noticed prior to boarding, but also hope that it is not noticed on re-entry (where scrutiny is even higher). Given the odds of that happening, I wouldn't take the chance no matter how many other forms of ID I could produce (obviously, I'm not a very daring person. I hate to tempt fate :)). S.

[sail7seas]

PARTIAL QUOTE

 

Frankly, I wouldn't leave the country without a valid passport, and I wouldn't book a cruise without having my passport valid for at least 6 months after the cruise was to end.

 

BTW, your friend has to hope that not only is discrepancy not noticed prior to boarding, but also hope that it is not noticed on re-entry (where scrutiny is even higher). Given the odds of that happening, I wouldn't take the chance no matter how many other forms of ID I could produce (obviously, I'm not a very daring person. I hate to tempt fate :)). S.

 

 

 

Information please question....... As I really do not know the answer.

 

IF HAL (or any cruise line) was to permit boarding after reviewing a guest's travel documents and Immigration refuses them re-entry at the end of the cruise....... what happens?

 

Does Immigration 'hold' him/her until they can get proper documents? How can they do that if not 'free'?

 

Are they sent back aboard for the ship to hold onto them until they can clean up their documents? How can they do that if they are out of the country unless one of the ports has a U.S. Consulate or Embassy?

 

[irisheileen]

PARTIAL QUOTE

 

Frankly, I wouldn't leave the country without a valid passport, and I wouldn't book a cruise without having my passport valid for at least 6 months after the cruise was to end.

 

BTW, your friend has to hope that not only is discrepancy not noticed prior to boarding, but also hope that it is not noticed on re-entry (where scrutiny is even higher). Given the odds of that happening, I wouldn't take the chance no matter how many other forms of ID I could produce (obviously, I'm not a very daring person. I hate to tempt fate :)). S.

 

Considering the facts as they are, my friend's DH has no choice, at this point, but to pray that either the corrected BC or the Passport arrives in time. When they booked this closed loop Bermuda cruise, all they really needed was the BC. They also, like you, thought that obtaining their first passports would be even better. Then all the problems reared their ugly head. lol!

 

These are the events in life from which we live and learn. Now they, like you, realize the beauty of having a passport before planning a vacation. Remember, they haven't taken any vacations other than surrounding states in decades. We were all noobies at one time, weren't we?

 

If the docs don't arrive, they WILL have to take their chances. I don't even want to begin to think about the point sail7seas brought up!! :eek:

[hypercafe]

If you are coming from another country and are denied entry to the US the carrier must bring you back to your country at their expense. In this case it is up to HAL to be sure all is in order when you board or not let you board. If HAL screws up I am sure their is a dollar fine for them and maybe a delay in ship turnaround. Since in is a closed loop trip I am sure the person will be allowed off but they could really make your life rotten. I don't think I would try to get on hopeing no one sees the problem.

[irisheileen]

Information please question....... As I really do not know the answer.

 

IF HAL (or any cruise line) was to permit boarding after reviewing a guest's travel documents and Immigration refuses them re-entry at the end of the cruise....... what happens?

 

Does Immigration 'hold' him/her until they can get proper documents? How can they do that if not 'free'?

 

Are they sent back aboard for the ship to hold onto them until they can clean up their documents? How can they do that if they are out of the country unless one of the ports has a U.S. Consulate or Embassy?

 

 

One of the Immigration Officers I spoke to stated that upon return they would use "common sense" as he put it.

 

If they don't accept him...well I also can't imagine what they would do.

 

I have to believe that this is NOT the first time these type of events have happened.

 

I really appreciate everyone's help and thoughts.

[msmayor]

Considering the facts as they are, my friend's DH has no choice, at this point, but to pray that either the corrected BC or the Passport arrives in time. When they booked this closed loop Bermuda cruise, all they really needed was the BC. They also, like you, thought that obtaining their first passports would be even better. Then all the problems reared their ugly head. lol!

 

These are the events in life from which we live and learn. Now they, like you, realize the beauty of having a passport before planning a vacation. Remember, they haven't taken any vacations other than surrounding states in decades. We were all noobies at one time, weren't we?

 

If the docs don't arrive, they WILL have to take their chances. I don't even want to begin to think about the point sail7seas brought up!! :eek:

 

But based on the information in your first post, even just the BC can create a problem if the last name is misspelled.

 

The gentleman would need a photo ID, presumably a driver's license with his last name spelled correctly and that would not have matched the BC. I think the problem would have existed regardless.

[irisheileen]

But based on the information in your first post, even just the BC can create a problem if the last name is misspelled.

 

The gentleman would need a photo ID, presumably a driver's license with his last name spelled correctly and that would not have matched the BC. I think the problem would have existed regardless.

 

Right, the only options are:

receive corrected BC in time + DL

 

receive passport in time (after passport officials allowed mispelled last name)

 

show up with DL and hope BC typo is not noticed, prepared to pull out lots of ID including veterans photo ID, SS card, tax bills (and his wife with his same last name :) on her new passport LOL)

[Salacia]

Hal does read these boards. They have been known to post from time to time. Some posters hae even been contacted about what they wrote on this board.

 

Hi lorekauf. Yes, it is also my understanding that reps from cruise lines read Cruise Critic forums, and I've seen posts from cruise company reps on other forums as well. (I was being facetious when I wrote that it is not as if HAL reads this forum - but I see now that wasn't clear:o.) Parenthetically, a friend in the PR business told me that most business have someone to review comments posted on the internet regarding their company and/or its competitors, so it's not just cruise lines that watch comments made on Internet forums. Regards, -S.

[serendipity1499]

Here is a link to the Pennsylvania Dept Of Heath citing the procedure for correcting the name on a birth certificate of a person born in PA.

 

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/birth_certificates/14121/corrections_to_birth_certificates/612936#J

 

 

Very good advice..Now it's up to the Psgrs to contact the appropriate state Dept to see if a new birth Certificate can be expedited..

 

Should have said in last post:

I have called numerous phone numbers trying to track down US Customs AT the Manhattan Pier. Finally I got a customs Officer who repeatedly stated that it was HAL who had the final say as to who got by scrutiny to board, not Customs. This was the exact opposite of what 2 HAL reps stated to us. He said that Customs only cared who CAME BACK INTO THE USA.

 

I called HAL again and was again assured that it was Homeland Security rules through their agents NOT HAL agents at the pier. Sigh..... I just wanted to talk to a body that would, off the record, maybe give piece of mind that a situation like this might pass muster so to speak and he would be allowed to board.

 

Eileen...That is true...Hal was correct & answers to Immigrations which is under the Dept of Homeland Security not Customs! Hope it was not a Custom's Agent you spoke to as they are not in charge of Psgrs re-entering the United States.. See Sail's Post & my post below..

BTW one poster said HAL should help you & that is absolutely not true!.. Hal must go according to U.S. Immigration laws & cannot board you with improper documentation..They could be subject to a heavy fine..

 

Just to avoid possible confusion......

 

It is Customs that inspects and is concerned with things that are being brought into the country.

 

It is Immigration that is concerned with the inspection of persons entering the country.

 

Both are a part of Homeland Security.

The two divisions are often confused and spoken of interchangeably but they have distinctly different missions.

 

You are not examined by U.S. Officials of Customs or Immigration when you exit for your cruise. Your travel documents are examined by HAL mostly to assure you will be permitted entry to the countries you are visiting and ultimately into the country where you will be disembarking..... in this case U.S.

They are stuck with you if any of the entry ports deny you admission. Therefore, they are careful to know and require proper travel documents of all persons wishing to board their ships. They have to be sure you will be permitted back into the U.S. when your cruise is over.

 

The ground staff for HAL examines the documents with knowledge of what Immigration Officials will require for your re-entry. HAL does not make the rules as to requirement; they only anticipate what problems could occur with someone's travel documents when it is time to re-enter. They have done this for enough years with enough Immigration Officials to be very well versed in the requirements.

 

Oddly HAL reps and 'Customs' were pretty much correct in what they told you.... but not exactly.

 

I have been told that every cruise there is someone who is left behind and not permitted to board because their documents are not in order.

 

It is the same with airlines. They verify travel documents when you check in for international flights as they are stuck with you if you cannot enter at the country to which you are flying.

 

 

I so hope the situation gets resolved well and soon.

Best wishes.

 

 

Irisheileen....Believe you are confusing the issue...:confused:

One of your first posts you mentioned you spoke to a Custom's Officer & then on one of your last posts you said you spoke to an Immigration Officer..

They are two different agencies which come under the Dept. of Homeland Security..Sail was the only poster who pointed this out to you..

Customs Agents can not give you the correct information on whether or not your Friends would be boarded & permitted back into the U.S...Custom's Agents inspect only bags & cargo entering the U.S. They have nothing to do with the Psgr being allowed to board a HAL cruise & re-enter the U.S. ..

Only Immigration Agents can advise you..Hal must be very careful about all Psgrs who re-enter the United States & must adhere to U.S. Immigrations laws..Immigrations Agents board the ship when it comes back into the United States to clear all Psgrs & Crew entering the United States..Hal does not begin disembarkation until after all Psgrs & Crew are cleared by U.S. Immigrations only..

Once you disembark & claim your bags then the Custom's Agents take over & inspect the bags to see what you are bringing into the U.S. They are only concerned that you only bring in what you have claimed on your custom's form & do not bring in anything such as Drugs, firearms, etc. or anything which could harm U.S. Agriculture such as plant material...

 

Both of these Agencies come under the Dept. of Homeland Security but both have two completely different functions..

 

Many people become confused about these two agencies..When I was in the Airline Travel Industry, our Agents had to answer to U.S. Immigrations only..If for some reason we boarded someone on one of our flights who did not have the proper documentation, we were heavily fined by Immigrations & had to hire an armed guard to watch over that Psgr. while he was in the U.S. until we could take him back out to the point of origin the next day.. It's the Psgrs responsibility to answer to Custom's not HAL's responsibility except if you purchase something that is expensive on board such as a diamond ring worth thousands of $$$...In that case then HAL will report your purchase to Customs..

Let's just hope that your Friends get their Birth Cert. changed or their passports in time..

Cheers...:)Betty

[serendipity1499]

Information please question....... As I really do not know the answer.

 

IF HAL (or any cruise line) was to permit boarding after reviewing a guest's travel documents and Immigration refuses them re-entry at the end of the cruise....... what happens?

 

Does Immigration 'hold' him/her until they can get proper documents? How can they do that if not 'free'?

 

Are they sent back aboard for the ship to hold onto them until they can clean up their documents? How can they do that if they are out of the country unless one of the ports has a U.S. Consulate or Embassy?

 

 

Sail...See my post above about what used to happen to my Company if we brought someone into the U.S. without proper documentation.. Now the question is this..Will Immigrations believe that this Psgr is a U.S. Citizen without proper documentation in the form of a Birth Certificate or Passport...

HAL could very well be fined & told to keep the Psgr aboard until the proper documentation arrives..

I would be very concerned & would not travel out of the U.S. without documentation in the form of a Passport or a valid Birth Certificaate..And I certainly don't think it's prudent for IrishEileen to encourage her Friends to travel without proper documentation..

JMO....Betty

[irisheileen]

Thanks for your input. On Friday, I spoke to countless people on the phone, some very helpful, others not so much. The first we called was HAL who told us that there wouldn't be a problem with BC (yeah right!) and then a supervisor who said it was "customs" that decided.

 

Since that initial phone call I called all around just to get to somebody that would be able to shed some light on the POSSIBILITY that the typo would be overlooked. I spoke to Custom's Officers and Immigration Officers as I was being transferred around. I am aware that it is Immigration, sorry if I confused anyone by wrong wording.

 

Always knew that HAL wasn't responsible to help them.

 

My friend HAS already returned all the documentation that the passport ppl asked for (originals) in their letter. We just have to wait.

 

Monday they are overnighting the Dept of Vital Statistics with the form to correct the BC along with all kinds of documentation. Waiting also.

[irisheileen]

And I certainly don't think it's prudent for IrishEileen to encourage her Friends to travel without proper documentation..

 

Remember...I'm just the co-worker who is helping them sort this out.

 

They are grown adults who will be deciding for themselves how they will travel, not IrishEileen.

[alpal1993]

I wish them good luck and a speedy delivery of the corrected papers.They are fortunate to have such a good friend.

[sail7seas]

Sail...See my post above about what used to happen to my Company if we brought someone into the U.S. without proper documentation.. Now the question is this..Will Immigrations believe that this Psgr is a U.S. Citizen without proper documentation in the form of a Birth Certificate or Passport...

 

HAL could very well be fined & told to keep the Psgr aboard until the proper documentation arrives..

 

I would be very concerned & would not travel out of the U.S. without documentation in the form of a Passport or a valid Birth Certificaate..And I certainly don't think it's prudent for IrishEileen to encourage her Friends to travel without proper documentation..

 

JMO....Betty

 

I was hoping you would post, Betty.

 

I know you worked for an International Airline and surely would be well versed in the subject.

 

I didn't imagine you had to hire armed guard :eek: until the undocumented person could be removed from the country.

Your posts were very interesting to read.

Thanks. :)