Booking agent`s advice........immoral?

[kevinyork]

Was calling round for quote last week. Found the cheapest deal from an agent who was also offering half price gratuities. When getting a quote from another agent (Eskimos houses come to mind) they asked what the cheapest quote was and I told them and said it included half price gratuities. Their response was `very few of our clients pay any gratuities as we recommend they get them taken off at reception to save money`

 

In the end they matched the lower quote incl the same half price gratuity offer but I decided to stick with the other agent as I thought their sales practice somewhat immoral. As a cruise `specialist` I don't think agents should be encouraging customers not to tip in order to lower their cruise cost. Anyone else come across this?

[Sutho]

You hear about it all the time. Nothing can stop it and many people do not tip and will get the tips removed onboard. On my most recent cruise on Aurora in July the reception desk was full of forms to have auto gratuities removed. Situations like this only bring back the tipping debate which is like banging your head against a brick wall. The only way to stop situations like this is to increase pay and have a totally tip free society.

[davecttr]

The way to stop this tipping problem is to include tips in the fare. NOT as a seperate item. In essence P&O would be increasing the staff wages. Heck, whats forty odd quid on a 14 night cruise. Passengers could then give tips for exeptional service.

 

The standard moan about this is would mean a reduced standard of service as staff don't have to try anymore. Nonsense, why are Thomson staff the happiest and most friendly and helpful afloat? tips are included in the fare and as the crew are so good passengers tip anyway so good crew end up with the included tip plus extra, no wonder they are happy:)

[bazzaw]

Just as P&O UK have been converting their "system" from "Recommended, but not compulsory, gratuities" to "Automatic, but not compulsory, gratuities " -- P&O AUS has changed from "Automatic, and pretty well compulsory, gratuities" to "no tipping required (unless you want to)" :rolleyes:

 

 

Barry

[simonpjd]

I think the original post was more about agencies almost suggesting to their customers not to tip to cut the cost. Very poor from an agency. We use Bolsover and have always been very happy with the service they supplied.

As for tipping - I think it should be included. In other words raise the fare by £6 a day and guarantee this would go to the crew, and we can add extra for great service. The problem, of course, is that the cruise companies would end up not passing it on (cynical me).

We are doing a Noble Caledonia cruise in 2014 and price includes just about everything including tips.

[philayl]

I have used the same agent twice that the OP refers to and the subject of tips has never been raised by them at all. Phil

[winniesbestm8]

The way to stop this tipping problem is to include tips in the fare. NOT as a seperate item. In essence P&O would be increasing the staff wages. Heck, whats forty odd quid on a 14 night cruise. Passengers could then give tips for exeptional service.

 

The standard moan about this is would mean a reduced standard of service as staff don't have to try anymore. Nonsense, why are Thomson staff the happiest and most friendly and helpful afloat? tips are included in the fare and as the crew are so good passengers tip anyway so good crew end up with the included tip plus extra, no wonder they are happy:)

 

Ocean Village and Island cruises had this policy when we were on them, it worked out great and allowed us to 'tip as we go' on top of the auto tip included in fare

[winniesbestm8]

In answer to the original post, yes that is very immoral!

[2irisheyes]

Perhaps P&O should stop that agent from selling their cruises. If there has to be tipping at least the amount on P&O is pretty modest compared to some other lines.

[Freecall]

I agree with most of what has been said but given that the cruise lines sometimes offer 'free tips' as a promotion (Celebrity have an offer on at the moment) it really makes a mokery of the whole tipping for service debate.

[HomelessBear]

Maybe I'm being a bit "thick" here, (apologies in advance), but I don't understand how they can offer half price gratuities? P&O add a set amount onto your on board account, which is the same for every person (as far as I know with exception maybe of children?) so how would this half price offer work out in practice?

I was just curious as it struck me as a very odd thing to offer.

 

Personally I never take off the gratuities and give more for exceptional service. So I'm not asking for any other reason other than curiosity. Just a thought.

[jenny wren]

Some would say that adding the tips automatically was immoral !!

 

Perhaps the agent was just informing the client that it was possible to remove these, as do P & O themselves:)

[Sutho]

Some would say that adding the tips automatically was immoral !!

 

Perhaps the agent was just informing the client that it was possible to remove these, as do P & O themselves:)

 

I think the majority of P&O's passengers agree with that above statement. Judging by the amount of people that take off autmomatic tipping it seems to suggest that most are opposed.

 

One thing people have to be carefull of on these forums is that many people pop up and say "I tip above and beyond" stetements like that only encourage others not to tip by making them feel someone else is doing it for them!!

 

On a personal view point I think cruise lines only have themselves to blame for all of this. They create large capacity ships they cant fill, they sell cruises cheap to people who cannot afford to tip, and they end up with a massive problem. The cold hard reality is that with mass market cruising allot of passengers are working class these days. Many of the passengers work for a living and only survive off they pay they get. Allot of passengers are not even tipped themselves for doing their job. These people will not tip. We are seeing this and the cruise lines are not liking it. If cruise lines are creating a system where they are encouraging passengers to come on holidays who do not and cannot afford to tip then it is up to cruise lines to rectify the pay issue.

[southwinds]

Im just back from the hairdressers... tipped her and the young shampoo girl... many staff depend on tips or commission.... in many walks of life..

These days many of us in the work place have productivity bonus added to our pay...

People who hate to tip must remember when they buy double glazing or a mortgage or insurance the sales person will get a bonus or commission .

REMEMBER the person who sold you your cruise was on a bonus or commission !!

these days its everywhere

Its a fact of life...

[Freecall]

these days its everywhere

Nobody tips me :(

[Dreamgirl1957]

Im just back from the hairdressers... tipped her and the young shampoo girl... many staff depend on tips or commission.... in many walks of life..

These days many of us in the work place have productivity bonus added to our pay...

People who hate to tip must remember when they buy double glazing or a mortgage or insurance the sales person will get a bonus or commission .

REMEMBER the person who sold you your cruise was on a bonus or commission !!

these days its everywhere

Its a fact of life...

 

Just a small point, i worked as a TA until last October, the Idea that the agents personally receive any commission on P&O cruises is completely wrong. As from last year P&O, Cunard & Princess cut the commission they pay to travel agents from 15% down to 5% , the poor agency's now earn such a low amount on P&O there is no chance any member of staff would ever get a bonus or any personal commission for selling their products. Thats why the agents just cannot discount P&O any more, they are not being difficult at all. There was a rumour that one or two companies would get a little more commission poss 7.5% but really not sure so if you do manage to get a small discount then you are very lucky. Some people get muddled up with the P&O offers that are then passed on by the agent who sometimes call it "their discount" but it is not, chances are you will get the same deal everywhere and its just the date of booking or special offers from P&O that make any difference.

Sorry for the rant , :( it just upsets me when i hear that people think the agents have more to play with and advise people to go elsewhere if not offered this and that, trust me any agent will use what ever they can to get your business, if they say they cannot discount or give away any parking, OBC, etc etc then they cannot. When its given by P&O as an offer they will pass it on. They may have been able to discount when commission levels were 15% so you would have gained to book with an agent THEN instead of direct sometimes but NOW agents are told absolutely no discounts,( and how can they on 5%? Admin costs alone would need nearly that to take the booking on) agents cannot work for nothing. The no discount rule comes from P&O and they say the reason they have cut agents commissions is to keep prices the same with everyone on a set date.( What i mean is as im sure most people on here know, prices differ on P&O cruises but its only as they alter prices every 3 months or so not because an agent has given a whopping discount, it just cant happen).

Perhaps P&O have done this as now there's nothing to gain by using an agent so more people will book direct, should save P&O a fair amount on agents commission even if it is only 5%. Such a shame as the agents do a good job.:)

Apologies as ive covered points read on other threads in the past too , i know you only mentioned the commisssion ;)

[daiB]

Just a small point, i worked as a TA until last October, the Idea that the agents personally receive any commission on P&O cruises is completely wrong. As from last year P&O, Cunard & Princess cut the commission they pay to travel agents from 15% down to 5% , the poor agency's now earn such a low amount on P&O there is no chance any member of staff would ever get a bonus or any personal commission for selling their products. Thats why the agents just cannot discount P&O any more, they are not being difficult at all. There was a rumour that one or two companies would get a little more commission poss 7.5% but really not sure so if you do manage to get a small discount then you are very lucky. Some people get muddled up with the P&O offers that are then passed on by the agent who sometimes call it "their discount" but it is not, chances are you will get the same deal everywhere and its just the date of booking or special offers from P&O that make any difference.

Sorry for the rant , :( it just upsets me when i hear that people think the agents have more to play with and advise people to go elsewhere if not offered this and that, trust me any agent will use what ever they can to get your business, if they say they cannot discount or give away any parking, OBC, etc etc then they cannot. When its given by P&O as an offer they will pass it on. They may have been able to discount when commission levels were 15% so you would have gained to book with an agent THEN instead of direct sometimes but NOW agents are told absolutely no discounts,( and how can they on 5%? Admin costs alone would need nearly that to take the booking on) agents cannot work for nothing. The no discount rule comes from P&O and they say the reason they have cut agents commissions is to keep prices the same with everyone on a set date.( What i mean is as im sure most people on here know, prices differ on P&O cruises but its only as they alter prices every 3 months or so not because an agent has given a whopping discount, it just cant happen).

Perhaps P&O have done this as now there's nothing to gain by using an agent so more people will book direct, should save P&O a fair amount on agents commission even if it is only 5%. Such a shame as the agents do a good job.:)

Apologies as ive covered points read on other threads in the past too , i know you only mentioned the commisssion ;)

 

 

Yes, we'll, in the past agents got 15% and the good ones passed on 10% to the customer. Leaving them with 5%. Now they get 5%. So for the majority of TA's no change.

 

Big complaints from the TA's,.... Why should that be when they are getting the same as before unless some TA's did not pass on that 10%. The only TA's who would complain would be those who were not giving the customer a good deal and creaming off more for themselves.

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

[Dreamgirl1957]

Sorry but i cant agree Can Granny.

 

No offence meant but do you think Tesco's should sell bread to you for 50p as they get it for 30p?

The agents need to make a profit or they will have to close. They give a good service.

At the moment if you book P&O with an agent you gain all of the personal service for no extra cost at all yet some still moan they get no more off. Its its not there to give they cant give it.

 

I agree we all want a discount, especially me however i do see that if we want to use a service then we have to pay.

 

When the agents got 15% they could discount, the ave discount being 7.5% so everyone was happy. I disagree that they just gave 10% disc every time. There are the times when no discount is asked for and the agent makes more profit but this is not often. Before the change the customer got a much better deal than going direct and the agent got a little for their service. Now at 5% believe me they get very very little now after admin/staff/elec/rent costs .

Agents now much prefer to sell RCI, MSC, NCL etc so they can discount and still earn enough to give the service.

 

I really cannot believe you expect the agents to give every last penny away and still survive. They are not a charity. They offer advice, better rates on currency most of the time and will book parking, night before hotels etc which really help some people.

We all shop around but i think its very short sighted to expect to get so much discount and accuse the agents of moaning because their income has been cut to the bone!

As it is everyone can just book direct now and get the same deal but its kicking the poor old agents in the teeth after all the good deals they gave in the past when they had commission to play with. Book with an agent if its P&O and at least give them the poor 5% comm , it makes no difference to the customer but the agents need our support. They will look after you in other ways to show their appreciation im sure. :)

[daiB]

Sorry but i cant agree Can Granny.

 

No offence meant but do you think Tesco's should sell bread to you for 50p as they get it for 30p?

The agents need to make a profit or they will have to close. They give a good service.

At the moment if you book P&O with an agent you gain all of the personal service for no extra cost at all yet some still moan they get no more off. Its its not there to give they cant give it.

 

I agree we all want a discount, especially me however i do see that if we want to use a service then we have to pay.

 

When the agents got 15% they could discount, the ave discount being 7.5% so everyone was happy. I disagree that they just gave 10% disc every time. There are the times when no discount is asked for and the agent makes more profit but this is not often. Before the change the customer got a much better deal than going direct and the agent got a little for their service. Now at 5% believe me they get very very little now after admin/staff/elec/rent costs .

Agents now much prefer to sell RCI, MSC, NCL etc so they can discount and still earn enough to give the service.

 

I really cannot believe you expect the agents to give every last penny away and still survive. They are not a charity. They offer advice, better rates on currency most of the time and will book parking, night before hotels etc which really help some people.

We all shop around but i think its very short sighted to expect to get so much discount and accuse the agents of moaning because their income has been cut to the bone!

As it is everyone can just book direct now and get the same deal but its kicking the poor old agents in the teeth after all the good deals they gave in the past when they had commission to play with. Book with an agent if its P&O and at least give them the poor 5% comm , it makes no difference to the customer but the agents need our support. They will look after you in other ways to show their appreciation im sure. :)

 

Sorry that is not my experience. Every cruise before the last few when the new rules came in brought us 10% discount, that's 18 over 10 years not 7.5. That was with Internet and high street TA's.

 

On all the boards I ever read and I look at quite a few 10 % was always the discount discussed.

 

Now I would believe that some TA's would not give this without being asked but when is asked around for a cruise and told them I had other quotes it was amazing how the price came to within a few pounds of the 10% off mark.

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

 

Dai

[cruizefam]

I really cannot believe you expect the agents to give every last penny away and still survive. They are not a charity. They offer advice, better rates on currency most of the time and will book parking, night before hotels etc which really help some people.

We all shop around but i think its very short sighted to expect to get so much discount and accuse the agents of moaning because their income has been cut to the bone!

As it is everyone can just book direct now and get the same deal but its kicking the poor old agents in the teeth after all the good deals they gave in the past when they had commission to play with. Book with an agent if its P&O and at least give them the poor 5% comm , it makes no difference to the customer but the agents need our support. They will look after you in other ways to show their appreciation im sure. :)

 

I couldn't agree with you more! Many don't even understand that TA's commision isn't on the full amount that their customer is paying either. IF you minus the port frees and taxes too - then there is the commision. Is paying 5% so bad to pay, when the customer is paying it anyway with the company? You get so much personal service, with a good agent of course. I agree book with an agent!

 

Anyway, not happy with some of the companies tierd systems they have going either. :( But that's another topic.

[Dreamgirl1957]

Can Granny,

10% is almost always given anyway by P&O when prices come out and then at certain other times too so often this is passed on to the customer by the agent without even touching their own commission. The customer thinks its a good deal , the paperwork says 10% has been taken off so everyone is happy. This has happened for years and still does now.

As the agents now only get 5% how can they give 10?

 

The agents are not daft, im sure you have had some good deals but as i have actually done the job i know no agent will just give 10% away leaving just 5% unless they really really have to. They just cannot afford to on a regular basis. There are so many different agents deals from cruise suppliers that you will never know exactly where the discount is actually coming from. What im talking about is the new very low standard agents commission, there will still be the odd deal from P&O the agent will pass on, im just saying people should not think they have run rings round the agent, ground them down, bullied them etc. They can only give extas, lower prices on P&O when P&O add on the deals in almost every case.

To say the agents are creaming off the top is not true, out of 5% where is the cream anyway!

Im sure you have booked many cruises in the past, the past is just that im afraid, the past. Things have changed , agents are doing their best but you will not get any disc now on P&O unless its being given to everyone , out of 5% how can they.

The agents whether they are high street, internet etc are all in the same boat and will give what they can when they can but you wont be able to "demand" a discount and then get it any more its just not there to give on P&O.

[daiB]

Can Granny,

10% is almost always given anyway by P&O when prices come out and then at certain other times too so often this is passed on to the customer by the agent without even touching their own commission. The customer thinks its a good deal , the paperwork says 10% has been taken off so everyone is happy. This has happened for years and still does now.

As the agents now only get 5% how can they give 10?

 

The agents are not daft, im sure you have had some good deals but as i have actually done the job i know no agent will just give 10% away leaving just 5% unless they really really have to. They just cannot afford to on a regular basis. There are so many different agents deals from cruise suppliers that you will never know exactly where the discount is actually coming from. What im talking about is the new very low standard agents commission, there will still be the odd deal from P&O the agent will pass on, im just saying people should not think they have run rings round the agent, ground them down, bullied them etc. They can only give extas, lower prices on P&O when P&O add on the deals in almost every case.

To say the agents are creaming off the top is not true, out of 5% where is the cream anyway!

Im sure you have booked many cruises in the past, the past is just that im afraid, the past. Things have changed , agents are doing their best but you will not get any disc now on P&O unless its being given to everyone , out of 5% how can they.

The agents whether they are high street, internet etc are all in the same boat and will give what they can when they can but you wont be able to "demand" a discount and then get it any more its just not there to give on P&O.

 

 

Well you certainly seam to deliberately miss represent what I have said.

 

P&O used to give 15% to TA's they now give 5%. In the past GOOD TA's passed on 10% of that to the customer

 

They now get only 5% and, quite rightly do not pass on any discount.

 

I have discussed this in the past with TA's,

 

Not sure what putting your misunderstanding I large letters did for you but never mind.

 

I never said they passed on any discount now, as they have none to pass on.

 

However we have strayed from the point of this thread which is the morality of a TA in suggesting to customers that they save money by not paying tips.

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

Dai

[Dreamgirl1957]

I couldn't agree with you more! Many don't even understand that TA's commision isn't on the full amount that their customer is paying either. IF you minus the port frees and taxes too - then there is the commision. Is paying 5% so bad to pay, when the customer is paying it anyway with the company? You get so much personal service, with a good agent of course. I agree book with an agent!

 

Anyway, not happy with some of the companies tierd systems they have going either. :( But that's another topic.

 

Thanks, :) , nice comment , that is exactly what i was trying to say, im afraid i went on a bit though so very sorry just had a bee in my bonnet. Also, good point, by the time port fees and taxes have come off agents get just 5% of whats left and it really is a very small amount.:(

[Dreamgirl1957]

Can Granny, i apologise about the large letters, didnt check how big they would be but i dont think i mis-understood you.

 

You said

" Now they get 5%. So for the majority of TA's no change.

 

Big complaints from the TA's,.... Why should that be when they are getting the same as before unless some TA's did not pass on that 10%. The only TA's who would complain would be those who were not giving the customer a good deal and creaming off more for themselves"

 

************************************************

My opinion :

There is a change .... they never just had 5% comm before they had 15% and could choose the amount of discount to give so they could still make a living, no one can afford to work for nothing.

 

You said : Big complaints from the TA's.... can you blame them????? And they cream off more for themselves !!! I dont see how they actually can so you are very ill informed if you think they could.

 

You dont think they should complain, should work for a pittance.

 

As Cruzefam rightly pointed out ,the 5% is calculated after port fees and taxes have been taken off , the amount left is so small for agents now that it is hardly worth having, they really should not be called complainers!!!!

 

Lastly, yes we are off the subject but i was only replying to a post .

[daiB]

Can Granny, i apologise about the large letters, didnt check how big they would be but i dont think i mis-understood you.

 

You said

" Now they get 5%. So for the majority of TA's no change.

 

Big complaints from the TA's,.... Why should that be when they are getting the same as before unless some TA's did not pass on that 10%. The only TA's who would complain would be those who were not giving the customer a good deal and creaming off more for themselves"

 

************************************************

My opinion :

There is a change .... they never just had 5% comm before they had 15% and could choose the amount of discount to give so they could still make a living, no one can afford to work for nothing.

 

You said : Big complaints from the TA's.... can you blame them????? And they cream off more for themselves !!! I dont see how they actually can so you are very ill informed if you think they could.

 

You dont think they should complain, should work for a pittance.

 

As Cruzefam rightly pointed out ,the 5% is calculated after port fees and taxes have been taken off , the amount left is so small for agents now that it is hardly worth having, they really should not be called complainers!!!!

 

Lastly, yes we are off the subject but i was only replying to a post .

 

 

 

Well done now being selective about a quote and still shouting!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

I said they got 15% and gave away 10% leaving 5%, now they only get 5%. So that's 5% then and 5% now so no change. Is that too difficult to understand?

 

I said those who complain we're those who did not give the 10% in the past. The ones who did not complain we're those who gave the 10 %.

 

 

 

 

Gan Canny

 

 

 

Dai