QE II norovirus?

[Louise D]

Agreed. Too many passengers (male and female) sadly do dot wash their hands after going to the bathroom. This is also a reason most if not all of the ships officers on any line will go back to their cabin to attend to their bathroom needs.

 

True, but sometimes it is just bad luck that an outbreak occurs. On either the QM2 world cruise 2009 or 2010 there was an outbreak of severe gastrointestinal disease that started after the ship left Singapore. Subsequent investigations established that the illness was introduced by a group of passengers who had all travelled together to Singapore on the same plane to board the ship.

 

PS - None of this is reported officially as there is no obligation for Cunard to report such outbreaks to the CDC when the ships are not in the vicinity of the US waters.

[Underwatr]

Outbreak after outbreak of this virus are reported and the blame tends to be put at the door of the ships crew or the ships owners. I am sick of saying on many forums that in my opinion the major contributor to the virus on board cruise ships are the passengers....

 

Hand sanitisers are not used, in fact deliberately avoided, by some passengers and I have witnessed, time after time that basic hygiene such as washing of hands in the toilets is not carried out by passengers. Mt wife has confirmed that she witnesses similar lapses in the ladies toilets.

 

I have no axe to grind with either cruise lines or cruise passengers, but I am appalled at the lack of common sense or the downright nasty habits of some passengers whom I presume will be some of the first to be chasing compensation for the "ruined" holiday which they themselves have contributed towards.

Sanitizers are of little effect against viruses. No objection to the rest of your post.

 

I've begun washing my hands before I wash my hands, after which I wash my hands...

[ovccruiser]

Sanitizers are of little effect against viruses. No objection to the rest of your post.

 

I've begun washing my hands before I wash my hands, after which I wash my hands...

 

They are against noro as it is usually spread by touch and transfered to the mouth. It is not caught, as most viruses, by airborn germs.

[Thaxted]

They are against noro as it is usually spread by touch and transfered to the mouth. It is not caught, as most viruses, by airborn germs.

 

Although ethanol-based sanitizers are effective against some viruses, this may not be true of the dreaded Norwalk virus and related strains. That, at least, is the conclusion of this interesting study. http://bitesizebio.com/articles/does-hand-sanitizer-and-liquid-hand-soap-remove-viruses/

 

I'll still avail myself of the sanitizer onboard. After all, anything is probably better than nothing, and you never know what other bugs may be lurking. But scrupulous hand washing would seem to be the safest route.

[Classiccruiser777]

Appeared on TV in the US:

 

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/norovirus-cruise-ship-outbreak-virus-leaves-hundreds-ill-18086141

[Salacia]

Speaking from the experience of a ton of sea days, keep sailing, it is just a matter of time. Not a pleasant experience to be in and around a heavy NORO breakout much less coming down with it. There is a good chance you have already cruised on a ship with minor breakouts without knowing it.

 

 

Hi grandsix. No doubt you are correct.

 

On one QM2 voyage, three passengers at the same table of six ordered the same desset. After taking two bites, we knew there there was something wrong. It was the last night of the cruise. I was sick to my stomach that night, and one tablemate who ate the same dessert later e-mailed that he was sick to his stomach on the flight home. It wasn't Noro, it was a food gone bad, in my opinion.

 

I was on the QM2 'Caribbean Fiesta' last year. The problem I encountered was not with Noro virus, but rather a rampant upper respiratory infection. The CDC requires reporting of gastro-intestional illness, but there is no requirement to report respiratory infections. Curious that is.

[Salacia]

Sanitizers are of little effect against viruses. No objection to the rest of your post.

 

I've begun washing my hands before I wash my hands, after which I wash my hands...

 

I read your post, then I decided to read the rest of your sentence before I washed my hands again...I did not touch my face, or any living creature before I made this post...and now I will go wash my hands again. Only kidding. I'm wearing latex gloves :D

 

Edited to add: Best wishes for the new year to you and Ms. Underwatr

[Lady Hudson]

Just announced on a NY tv station about the QM2 and noro. Said that 194 passengers are affected. Didn't make a big deal of it -- just said that the QM2 was on a Christmas cruise to the Caribbean. Hope all are well.

[Salacia]

Outbreak after outbreak of this virus are reported and the blame tends to be put at the door of the ships crew or the ships owners. I am sick of saying on many forums that in my opinion the major contributor to the virus on board cruise ships are the passengers....

 

Hand sanitisers are not used, in fact deliberately avoided, by some passengers and I have witnessed, time after time that basic hygiene such as washing of hands in the toilets is not carried out by passengers. Mt wife has confirmed that she witnesses similar lapses in the ladies toilets.

 

I have no axe to grind with either cruise lines or cruise passengers, but I am appalled at the lack of common sense or the downright nasty habits of some passengers whom I presume will be some of the first to be chasing compensation for the "ruined" holiday which they themselves have contributed towards.

 

 

Virus will reproduce at any given chance. No need to assign blame, just be aware of the facts.

 

 

copied from http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/pub/faq/faq.htm#spread?

 

How does infectious gastroenteritis spread?

 

 

Infections causing gastroenteritis can be spread by contaminated food or water or through an infected food handler. Individuals who are symptomatic with gastroenteritis can spread illness to others by touching handrails, elevator buttons, and shared utensils, as well as through direct intimate contact with others while they are ill.

[Salacia]

Although ethanol-based sanitizers are effective against some viruses, this may not be true of the dreaded Norwalk virus and related strains. That, at least, is the conclusion of this interesting study. http://bitesizebio.com/articles/does-hand-sanitizer-and-liquid-hand-soap-remove-viruses/

 

I'll still avail myself of the sanitizer onboard. After all, anything is probably better than nothing, and you never know what other bugs may be lurking. But scrupulous hand washing would seem to be the safest route.

 

Quite right. Hey, wouldn't Pol Acker serve as a great disinfectant? It's ethanol based, isn't it? Crikey, it's not only good for a sip at sailway, but also a great mouth wash, hand sanitizer, and toilet bowl cleanser all one! Make that bottle last through the voyage - it's multi-purpose! :)Cheers, -S

[Salacia]

"...Two CDC Vessel Sanitation Program environmental health officer and an epidemiologist will board the ship on arrival in Brooklyn on January 3, 2013 to conduct an environmental health assessment and evaluate the outbreak and response activities." quoted from http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/outbreak/2012/january3_queen_mary_2.htm -Thanks to Blue Marble for that link.

[balf]

True, but sometimes it is just bad luck that an outbreak occurs. On either the QM2 world cruise 2009 or 2010 there was an outbreak of severe gastrointestinal disease that started after the ship left Singapore. Subsequent investigations established that the illness was introduced by a group of passengers who had all travelled together to Singapore on the same plane to board the ship.

 

s.

 

Maybe not bad luck but dishonesty by the boarding passengers. When you board you are asked to sign a form stating that you have not been ill for the last number of days

 

There is a great temptation for people to non report; and they may have been ill on the flight to Singapore or even be feeling better when they board, though still infected.

 

David.

[glojo]

Interesting thread and it got me thinking..

 

I served in the Royal Navy for 12 years and never once during that period did any of the ship's I had the priviledge of being aboard suffer from this type of virus. Some of the messdecks had living conditions deemed illegal for farm animals as there was no enough space to swing the proverbial ships cat. Hammocks banging into each other, folks sleeping in hammocks whilst sailors sitting directly under those sleeping eating their meals. Hot bunking where there were not enough beds for all the crew.

 

Some of these ships would be rolling in excess of thirty degrees with unfortunate sailors being sea sick whilst others carried on merrily eating their meals. Yes sailors were very clean beasts but personal hygiene and washing of hands after going to the toilet was not a common sight. My point being.... Where does this virus come from?

 

If it was generated aboard the ship, then I am positive I would have seen this illness on a regular basis but that was clearly not the case.

 

My thoughts are and this is more a question than a statement...

 

Could it be that this horrible condition was bought aboard the ship by some unsuspecting passenger?

 

I have booked a World Cruise with Cunard and I know one of the questions I will get asked prior to boarding is possibly.

 

Am I suffering from any type of tummy bug or have I had it during the last 'x' hours/days?

 

If I were to answer yes then will I be made welcome and be allowed to board the ship?

 

Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

 

What really angers me however is criticism of the crew\captain on these effected ships as who here wants to clean out dozens of toilets, clean hundreds of cabins that may or may not be soiled? I dread to think of the conditions the crew are working under and how dare they get sick or not attend a poorly passenger?

 

What is the captain expected to do regarding these outbreaks? Surely he has a staff that are trained to cope as best they can and he should possibly just be monitoring the situation and keeping the company informed of the ongoing state of his ship?

 

My thoughts are with those that are suffering but in life s**t happens but at least you are being looked after :):o

 

Good good, fair winds and fair seas

 

Best wishes and a Happy New Year

John

[moniquet]

There is no proof either way as to how the virus is introduced. The assumption is that it is brought on board but it could be vice versa and cruise passengers are taking it into their home towns. Southampton has been particularly badly hit this week, about 3 hospitals have closed wards.

 

We have just returned from a HAL cruise and one day returning to the ship we were walking behind some crew members who seemed to be carrying take-away food on board:confused:

 

Some ships/lines appear to get outbreaks more than others. Princess ships get more than their fair share. Still it's easier for the cruise ships and cruise groupies to put the blame on a few passengers boarding with it!

[balf]

 

. Still it's easier for the cruise ships and cruise groupies to put the blame on a few passengers boarding with it!

 

Well as the virus is brought on by people, passengers or crew, or the captain for all we know, if passengers board carrying it they are to blame. And just what do you expect the cruise lines to do? Or for that matter schools, hospitals or care homes etc which also suffer.

 

David.

[Underwatr]

Here's my theory on likely means of introduction:

 

The incuation period is a couple of days. People can board carrying a developing case and not be aware that they will become sick in a day or two.

 

Children are great little germ factories and spreaders. Earlier in the voyage (before the extent of the outbeak was clear to passengers) I attended a show in the Royal Court. The couple seated next to me had a toddler who wandered around touching everything, including her mouth, the railings and my pant legs. Cute kid.

 

Some people do get sick and either don't report it or don't remain in their cabins as directed. The Captain has mentioned that not staying confined has been a problem for some this week.

 

PS: For the first time in days the stewards are permitted to vacuum today. We must be getting better!

[balf]

 

Could it be that this horrible condition was bought aboard the ship by some unsuspecting passenger

 

I have booked a World Cruise with Cunard and I know one of the questions I will get asked prior to boarding is possibly.

 

Am I suffering from any type of tummy bug or have I had it during the last 'x' hours/days?

 

If I were to answer yes then will I be made welcome and be allowed to board the ship?

 

• 
  

John

 

Yes,it could be a passenger who brought it aboard, most likely was and if you owned up you would probably be allowed to board but would be confined to your cabin for a few days.

 

David.

[Norfolk Brit]

Yes,it could be a passenger who brought it aboard, most likely was and if you owned up you would probably be allowed to board but would be confined to your cabin for a few days.

David.

 

It's spread by people, whoever they may be; passengers, crew, captain - all people. Were a crew member incubating it, they are often in jobs where it could be spread pretty widely before the victim realised they were unwell.

 

I had something similar years ago, back in the days when it was called a tummy bug. It arrived with absolutely no warning so it's perfectly possible for someone to innocently board, or wash salads:eek:, and be struck down a few hours later.

 

Mary

[glojo]

And just what do you expect the cruise lines to do? David.

 

That's easy to answer...

 

The 500 or was it a thousand effected passengers :o:o will sign a petition and then order the captain to take them to Eutopia...

 

On a serious note, the passengers we have heard from appear to be coping in a mature, responsible manner and I find it sad that other folk are trying to exaggerate this issue into a mass epidemic that is effecting large numbers of passengers. My thoughts are with those that are suffering and hopefully this horrible condition will quickly pass :(

 

I read an article which was saying that as we develop more and more hygienic habits, our bodies get less and less resistant to any type of bug?? Make of that what you will but surely modern ships are designed to be easier to both clean and maintain?

[moniquet]

Well as the virus is brought on by people, passengers or crew, or the captain for all we know, if passengers board carrying it they are to blame. And just what do you expect the cruise lines to do? Or for that matter schools, hospitals or care homes etc which also suffer.

 

David.

 

My point is what if it is the cruise ships and they are spreading it into our cities as passengers return:confused: Too many assumptions are being made, there is no proof either way. Bit of a coincidence that Southampton hospitals have a large number of cases compared with the rest of the UK. when a couple of returning ships have recently docked with a high number of cases.

[capnpugwash]

My point is what if it is the cruise ships and they are spreading it into our cities as passengers return:confused: Too many assumptions are being made, there is no proof either way. Bit of a coincidence that Southampton hospitals have a large number of cases compared with the rest of the UK. when a couple of returning ships have recently docked with a high number of cases.

 

The UK Health Protection Agency suggest that over one million people in the UK are affected. They haven't all been on ships, have they?

There is also an outbreak in Joliet prison in Illinois, is that full of sailors? This virus is the second most prevalent virus in the world, after the common cold. Hospitals throughout the UK have been stopping visitors in an attempt to cut down on the spread of the virus.

[balf]

My point is what if it is the cruise ships and they are spreading it into our cities as passengers return:confused: Too many assumptions are being made, there is no proof either way. Bit of a coincidence that Southampton hospitals have a large number of cases compared with the rest of the UK. when a couple of returning ships have recently docked with a high number of cases.

 

A very,very small percentage of passengers disembarking in Southampton live in Southampton. The virus is carried by people, it can't fly off the ship and infect a city. It is certainly true that modern worldwide travel is a major cause of this and other epidemics, but we need to apply a bit of science and logic instead of inventing outlandish theories.

 

David.

[YKS]

I just called Cunard. The checking in time is 3:00pm on Jan. 3. They are working on free shutter.

[glojo]

My point is what if it is the cruise ships and they are spreading it into our cities as passengers return:confused: Too many assumptions are being made, there is no proof either way. Bit of a coincidence that Southampton hospitals have a large number of cases compared with the rest of the UK. when a couple of returning ships have recently docked with a high number of cases.

What is a bit of a coincidence?

 

I am not doubting what you say but I would like to see some evidence of this claim as it comes across as being scaremongering hogwash. We have had several wards closed in hospitals here in Devon, other wards have stopped visitors from coming in and we do not have cruise ships off loading passengers (Apart from the Roscoff ferry)

 

I think a little less hysteria will help avoid listeria (humour) :o;)

[moniquet]

None of you will have it will you...it can't fly off a ship and infect Southampton but yet a passenger can get onboard with it and infect hundreds:confused: I am not saying one is right or wrong but food for thought..the case is not proven. It is still very convenient for the ships to take that line, pay for your own meds and no compensation...what if a lot of cases weren't actually Noro. Passengers aren't tested are they and it has the same symptoms as food poisoning:confused:

 

I repeat...why does Princess get more cases than other cruiselines...unlucky or what......