NCL isn't safe for kids!

[notentirelynormal]

I am sorry this happened but you say you took 3 boys to the kids club why didnt the other boys notice the 10 year old was gone ?

 

The other kids were in a different age group and were not near their brother. They would have no way of knowing nor was it their responsibility to watch their brother.

 

My problem with the OP isn't leaving his child (autistic or not) with the kid's on board care - it is the fact that he insists on an explanation on how his child escaped and will settle for nothing less. Well, if they didn't notice he was gone than it is hard to explain something you didn't know about in the first place.

 

I absolutely think NCL dropped the ball. I also think the OP is unreasonable in his insistence on knowing HOW it happened. How can you explain something you didn't know happened in the first place. To expect the head office to know, if my opinion, is even sillier. If the on board staff don't know how it happened that you can be rest assured that the people sitting on US soil in an office really have no clue how his particular child "left the building".

 

Mistakes happen. Thankfully his child was okay. It seems to me he is beating an old horse to death on getting "how it happened". If he really wants to just accomplish something from this experience than he has been successful. The cruise line, us here on CC and I'm sure others are now aware of the situation and will do something to ensure that this never happens again to another child.

[dijid]

Carmen, question for you - do you know if parents given the opportunity to opt out of 'roving' (for lack of a better term) expeditions for their children? I know that I personally would not be comfortable if the counsellors were taking my child out of the kid's area to another area on the ship.

 

You do bring up a very good point btw. If it is indeed true (pure speculation) that Ben 'escaped' during that period, things really need to change.

 

Is there something specific about the ship that makes you uncomfortable? I would think for a child that is in school, this would be normal. Follow the teacher to the gym....follow the teacher to the cafeteria....stay with the group on field trips, etc. Unless you really don't trust your child, or there's something about cruise ships I'm not aware of, I would think it wouldn't be a big deal. My son went on a 4 night class trip when he was 10. Three classrooms of kids, 3 teachers + 1 parent chaperone. They all made it back unharmed.

[kerrytens]

Is there something specific about the ship that makes you uncomfortable? I would think for a child that is in school, this would be normal. Follow the teacher to the gym....follow the teacher to the cafeteria....stay with the group on field trips, etc. Unless you really don't trust your child, or there's something about cruise ships I'm not aware of, I would think it wouldn't be a big deal. My son went on a 4 night class trip when he was 10. Three classrooms of kids, 3 teachers + 1 parent chaperone. They all made it back unharmed.

My child has autism.

 

A school situation is totally different. If my child wandered off between classrooms the entire school knows her. She also knows her school layout very well. I can't say that about a cruise ship.

[GORDONCHICK]

My child has autism.

 

A school situation is totally different. If my child wandered off between classrooms the entire school knows her. She also knows her school layout very well. I can't say that about a cruise ship.

 

You will just have to stay on top of her age group's schedule and pick her up accordingly. Or, you could make sure she holds the hand of one of the counselors - which is what I'd do (I think. Since I'm not in that situation, I cannot know for sure.).

[mjkacmom]

I think NCL is responsible for the child who got out (none of my kids have autism, but I do have a wanderer, who has left us many times at the buffet, to return to the cabin - at the age of 6).

 

I'm sure their legal department has specific guidelines on what the company can tell customers. Since it seems like this is a VERY rare situation, I'd just let it go. I'm betting that they are taking it seriously, and looking into what actually happened.

 

I'm not thrilled with the title of the thread - I think many more people would be sympathetic if not for such a heated and inaccurate title.

[boulders]

If the OP wants to know how it happened, why doesn't he ask the one person who DOES know - his son.

[GORDONCHICK]

If the OP wants to know how it happened, why doesn't he ask the one person who DOES know - his son.

 

You've obviously not read this or the other thread through, or you'd already understand that his son is not capable of explaining.

[boulders]

You've obviously not read this or the other thread through, or you'd already understand that his son is not capable of explaining.

 

I've read both threads quite thoroughly, thank you very much. Can you point me to the post where the OP said that his child was non-verbal?

[boulders]

He is verbal, but explaining why he does things is not the easiest thing for him, so we don't know why he left.

 

Found it - post 13. So, did the OP actually ask him or not? If the child is not able to describe what he did, his decision making process or events that happened to him, I question the wisdom of putting him in an age based environment where it is expected that children will be able to understand and follow rules.

[dwjoe]

Found it - post 13. So, did the OP actually ask him or not?

I think it's a safe assumption that the child was not able to give OP reliable details of what happened, else, OP would not have posted as he did.

 

If the child is not able to describe what he did, his decision making process or events that happened to him, I question the wisdom of putting him in an age based environment where it is expected that children will be able to understand and follow rules.

That is a whole 'nother topic, but does not detract from the primary responsibility NCL had to make sure the child did not slip out unnoticed.

[mmbrocker]

Found it - post 13. So, did the OP actually ask him or not? If the child is not able to describe what he did, his decision making process or events that happened to him, I question the wisdom of putting him in an age based environment where it is expected that children will be able to understand and follow rules.

 

Popping back in for a minute. This is a quite common misconception, one I held until I actually had a child with communication difficulties.

 

Expressive and Receptive language skills are totally different. You can easily have a child like mine, who can understand others, respond to instructions and is actually quite advanced .. but has gaps in his ability to EXPRESS himself with the very same language.

 

This means I have a son who can go in a "normal" Kindergarten classroom, complete assignments, follow all instructions and function very well without the need of an aide. BUT - he cannot tell me how his day went or what his thinking was. He has a hard time asking a question. If he doesn't already have a predetermined script, then .. well.. verbalizing a new question/telling a story is VERY difficult.

[kerrytens]

You will just have to stay on top of her age group's schedule and pick her up accordingly. Or, you could make sure she holds the hand of one of the counselors - which is what I'd do (I think. Since I'm not in that situation, I cannot know for sure.).

Thanks for the advice:D

[punkincc]

Please pardon the fact that I have not read through this entire thread but I am well aware of this situation.

 

I know the security that you have to go through in order to get your child in and out of the kid's club on the Epic. I also realize that there would have to be another 'emergency' exit door (or two??) for safety reasons. If that is how Ben escaped, I'm horrified to think that no such alarm went off within the area to alert the staff.

 

Yes, I'm just speculating here but that is only because I remember the entrance/exit area. I can't see how any child could just walk out of that area. I could be way off base though (and this is certainly not directed at the OP) as I've never cruised during a holiday when there are more children onboard. I'm just throwing out another scenario that perhaps should be visited by the cruise line.

 

 

 

OP, I am very glad to hear that Ben is fine. You have raised an important issue here and I'm truly hoping it will bring along some sweeping changes to

how ALL cruise line's look after our kids.

 

Just wanted to point out the information of two posters, one who was on the same cruise with the OP and one who sailed immediately after, posts #88 and #56.

 

In 88, the poster states that when arriving for pick up or drop off at "off hours", they witnessed NO crew members manning the drop off pick up door and sometimes 5 minutes would pass before they appeared.

 

If this is the case, then I can see how the 10 year old was able to simply able to walk out.

 

Poster 56 attests to procedures noted the week after the incident and MAY indicate a procedure change implemented after a review of the incident by NCL.

They report a total of 4 staff posted at the door. Also they toured the club and did not see any other exits.

[punkincc]

Has anyone bothered to get the Kids Club staff's on NCL explanation of the situation. There's two sides to every story & so far we've only heard 1 side ...!

 

And who would be able to get any information from the kids club staff except for NCL? The staff reportedly were dumbfounded that the child was gone until they were informed by the family. The staff offered the family no explanation nor apparently has NCL. And I am sure the kids club staff have been instructed at this point to say nothing.

[Brandi1949]

Punkincc - you're probably right, which is unfortunate. It's not a good situation, no matter how you look at it!!

[crusinmama06]

Just wanted to point out the information of two posters, one who was on the same cruise with the OP and one who sailed immediately after, posts #88 and #56.

 

In 88, the poster states that when arriving for pick up or drop off at "off hours", they witnessed NO crew members manning the drop off pick up door and sometimes 5 minutes would pass before they appeared.

 

If this is the case, then I can see how the 10 year old was able to simply able to walk out.

 

Poster 56 attests to procedures noted the week after the incident and MAY indicate a procedure change implemented after a review of the incident by NCL.

They report a total of 4 staff posted at the door. Also they toured the club and did not see any other exits.

 

Yeah let me update my statement - the week afterward was lockdown tight (security wise). I was traveling with a large number of kids so I asked their parents and we all said the same thing - that week was like trying to break our kids out of prison to get them out of that front gate.

 

HOWEVER - I asked my 12 year old if there was a back door for STAFF. She said there IS one in the 10-12 room and no alarm went off. But she didn't know where that door led to. According to her - it could have led to a "storage room or an office - or even out" - she couldn't see it.

[GORDONCHICK]

Yeah let me update my statement - the week afterward was lockdown tight (security wise). I was traveling with a large number of kids so I asked their parents and we all said the same thing - that week was like trying to break our kids out of prison to get them out of that front gate.

 

HOWEVER - I asked my 12 year old if there was a back door for STAFF. She said there IS one in the 10-12 room and no alarm went off. But she didn't know where that door led to. According to her - it could have led to a "storage room or an office - or even out" - she couldn't see it.

 

I can't know for sure, but usually the staff only doors lead through a maze of stairways and small walkways that lead to primary traffic areas for staff - and always go to "I-95" (the crew super highway on low deck, usually #4). If a child could find their way through that, it would be pretty amazing AND crew would/should have certainly noticed a child in pajamas in a crew only area.

[kerrytens]

I truly hope that there is a secondary door - an emergency exit. I can't see how they couldn't possibly have another exit out of the kid's space. I remember the Epic entrance and it wasn't wide. To try and get 100's (or more) kids through that one swinging door could spell disaster if someone is panicked.

 

Now, with that said, one would think there would be some sort of alarm attached to an emergency door as well to alert staff if someone used it.

[lvz2cruz]

What are the educational requirements to work in a Norwegian Cruise Lines childcare area? Here is what RCI requires:

 

Kids will have a blast at our complimentary, award-winning Adventure Ocean® Youth Program. Every member of our youth team holds a four-year degree in education, recreation or a related field and has extensive experience working with children

 

I can say NCL did not have that requirement a few years ago. We were on a ferry in Bermuda with the head of the youth club on our NCL ship. My 19 year old daughter had been a counselor at a camp for 6 weeks and the worker offered her a job on NCL in the kids' club. She could have worked spring break, Christmas vacation, or whenever available. This was after (30 minutes). talking on the ferry from the Dockyard to St. George The worker very actively pursued her to work. She had completed her first year of college towards a business degree.

[lvz2cruz]

I would be very upset and afraid to leave a child with NCL. If this boy got away, any others could and possibly have that we will never know about. It seems NCL would pay to keep things silent.

Can you imagine the press if a child slipped out of a day care or school in your hometown?

On our NCL cruises, there were several occasions when staff did not show up for scheduled events. We joked freestyle meant staff showed up when and if they wanted to.

I find it appalling what happened and also the offer of money if the parents did not tell what happened.

I do think these things need to be discussed here so people know what can happen.

Epic failure for NCL!

[dwjoe]

Can you imagine the press if a child slipped out of a day care or school in your hometown?

It'd be a story of sorts for a preschooler... but if a middle school child found their way home unhurt it wouldn't be. I think it happens occasionally. Schools cannot watch all of the children all of the time and are not designed to stop a child who really wants to "escape" unexpectedly.

 

The case is different here though. There is supposed to be a strict entry/exit control so NCL is at fault.

[Onessa]

This was not a "little" kid. NCL goofed up somehow by allowing him to slip out.

 

But the parents need to take this as a wake up call. That once out that no one noticed him is not disturbing. DS is getting older and "strangers" won't know that they have to treat him differently or protect him. A 10 to 12YO wandering through the halls really is not something that I would find strange (even in his PJs). As he gets older this is going to be a bigger and bigger problem. A special needs adult, particularly one with little or no visable differences, will not be provided any special considerations - he needs to be prepared for life.

[Markanddonna]

Schools are not locked down fortresses with buzzers going off if a child leaves. There are times when children leave the buildings and it may be some time before the teacher notices. If a child says they are using the restroom and they choose to leave by the side door, they may not be noticed for a while. Is the school at fault? I supposed technically they are. I have seen teacher run down the street after a child who was mentally ill or a huge behavior problem but what do they do if they catch them? Tackle them to the ground? Things happen and schools can't be responsible for everything that happens.

 

With this story, I think of Paul Harvey..."Now, for the rest of the story..."

[alj1208]

I have to admit that I would be just as angry as OP had this happened to my child. Extra training on special needs and specifically autism are called for at NCL.

 

Have you considered going to the media with your story? In light of the bad publicity from the Carnival situation (fire and ship drifting), reporters might "bite" if you offered a story raising questions about special needs children and cruise ship safety. I'm a former reporter (home with my child now), and I would have pursued a story like yours.

 

Try your local newspaper or TV station. If you get local coverage, the story might spread to other news organizations.

[RNShelli]

I have 4 boys, ages 6,6,8,10. All of them are autistic. We have been on several cruises (next one coming up in April...woohoo) and I can certainly emphasize with your situation! I hope that you get the answers from the security tapes. It must have been terrifying for you to think your son escaped and made his way back to your room. I too would have been extremely angry. My sons are verbal as well but often cannot express ideas or retell a story about "what happened".