Norwegian Cruise Ship "Loses" Autistic Boy

[Lizcourt]

Is it me, or have some parents become way to reliant on the ships personnel to take care of their children while on a "family" vacation?

 

It's you.

 

Okay, so I'm partially kidding. I don't know what you mean by way too reliant -- nor is there any evidence that the kid's program was being used here as an alternative to spending time with their kids on a family vacation. We have been cruising with my nieces since the youngest was three years old. On many cruises, none of them wanted to make use of the kid's program and perferred to hang with the family. That was great. But as they got a little older, the kid's programs became a real attraction for them (sigh, I guess we parents, aunts and uncles are more boring to a 10 year old than a 3 year old). They increasingly wanted to spend some time -- not all their time, but some time -- in the programs which, after all, are a BIG selling point for cruise lines. We weren't "dumping" them there or looking to the ship's personnel to "take care of them" so we could do other things. We were availing ourselves and our nieces of one of the services the cruise ship markets as a reason to cruise as a family in the first place.

 

But no matter how much or how little time our kids want to spend in the ship-provided program, I don't think its in the least unreasonable to require that they be safe, secure and cared for while they're there. And that starts with the cruise personnel knowing where they are, whether the child is autistic or not, or the program is busy or not. That's not really a high bar to set.

[punkincc]

Unless there is some door, for instance a crew only door that the child in question somehow managed to find, they do not have any unmanned entry and exit points.

 

Post #56

http://cruiseforums.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=36926109#

 

A parent who was on the same cruise as the OP has already posted that they found the check out door unattended and waited 5 minutes for someone to appear so that they could pick up or drop off their child.

[njmomof2]

I had read previous posts by the father and remember him stating that the visit where the unauthorized escape occurred was at the end of the week, after their son had been in the kids' club several times over the vacation, and that he was familiar with and appeared comfortable with the environment.

 

I don't know what we all would be saying if the child was not a special needs kid. I know, as the parent of a 10.5 year old boy, that if I had put him in the kids' club and did not give him sign out privileges, and then after going to dinner, found him sitting in our cabin alone, I would be livid as well. His ability to get out of a secured area, when he had no sign out rights, is solely the fault of the staff of that kids club. Whether he is a genius who figured out how to fool the system, or they were overwhelmed and he slipped out with another family, either way, it's their fault.

 

I am also fortunate that my son would be able to articulate to me what was going on and how he managed to get away from the staff undetected. My understanding from the previous posts of Ben's dad is that Ben, due to his autism, is not able to articulate to his parents what happened or why he left the club. They could not get the answer they desired from him. So they went to the next best thing, the caregivers.

 

All ships have cameras, and I am sure there are cameras in the kids' area as well. These tapes needed to be reviewed and the parents are entitled to a thorough and truthful explanation of how this happened and how the cruiseline will work to ensure it does not happen to another family. To offer money and condition it on a NDA is appalling and I find it insulting as well. I don't think that if it happened to my child, I'd be using any credit or money off another cruise, because I would not be back on that line again. I'd want, however, an honest apology and information about remedies.

 

I'm happy that however he managed it, Ben made it back to their cabin safely and that the cabin steward took it upon himself to contact his supervisor and waited there until Ben's parents arrived. I also think that the steward was standing outside the open cabin door (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) and was waiting for one of the adults to come. That steward should be commended for his action in this matter.

[lambchoplady]

Both the parents and NCL may be responsible; NCL is liable. Unless the documentation signed by the parents indicates that a special need was underestimated or not disclosed, NCL will probbaly settle with the parents for an undisclosed sum.

 

The sad part is that such a lawsuit may cause cruiselines to reconsider their Kids Club programs and not accept any "special needs" children.

[dwjoe]

I took the time to read all the posts in both this posting and the family cruise posting. I really can see all the points but wonder about a few things:

 

- We won't ever know NCL's side of the story because of confidentiality rules. We don't know how accurately this child's needs were presented to NCL. I recall that my VERY FIRST day of teaching started with a child attempting to bolt out the door. I restrained him and the parents sheepishly admitted that he tried to do that every year for the first few days. Did they tell me that BEFORE this incident? No. Many folks minimize their child's problems in order for them to be accepted into schools, programs, etc. BTW- laws today would prevent me from restraining him (all I did is hold a six year old firmly by the arms and shoulders).

 

-Another thought is that I wonder if any child is every refused? What about kids who are violent, hurt themselves and others, etc? Are cruiselines expected to accept these children? I remember an after school child care center that had to keep a very violent, oppositional defiant disorder child because daddy was a lawyer and threatened to sue them. Please don't imply that I am am saying the child from this story was violent. I'm just bringing up a logical question.

 

-This topic reminds me of a posting on HAL a while back from a wheelchair bound woman who was very upset that she wasn't given special help (actually she avoided the muster drill and used her disability as an excuse for showing up). It brought up the idea that maybe some situations are way too demanding of the cruiseline's abilities to handle them well and that sometimes the other passengers could be put in danger if the demands of the very needy are met. Can you imagine a lifeboat rescue if 20% of your passengers are using walkers, in wheelchairs, etc?

 

- It is too bad when a cruiseline gets overwhelmed and slammed during holidays providing a usually well run service for children. On my last cruise, there were less than 10 children (TA sailing) and the children's areas were empty/closed. I would never expect their crew to have the capacity of servicing a special needs child, esp. during these busy times.

 

- I have to agree that I would be upset as the parents if this happened to my child. So many things to consider and learn from. It seems this young man knew what was best for him: not being in a crowded care center and used his wits to make it happen.

Thanks for the thoughtful post.

 

Here's an excerpt from the NCL kids program FAQ:

 

Is special-needs care provided in the Splash Academy and Entourage programs?

Although one-on-one care is not provided, Norwegian Youth Staff can adjust activities for those children that require special care. Advance notice is helpful to the onboard staff by contacting Customer Service. Child assessment can be made to place the child in the most age appropriate age group to enhance his/her vacation experience.

 

In this instance, the child's special need did not cause the problem. Watching the door is something they should be doing at all times and does not require 1 on 1 care. But you raise some interesting general questions... like what if, say, a special needs child picks up a toy and injures himself or another child with it, who is responsible? NCL kids program has a discipline policy and they can dismiss children who misbehave, but pre-screening relies on the parents to accurately inform them of a special need. There may be a limit to how many children NCL can safely supervise at one time and some special needs kids may require extra supervision short of a dedicated aide.

 

I agree there is much to consider and learn from.

[dwjoe]

Both the parents and NCL may be responsible; NCL is liable. Unless the documentation signed by the parents indicates that a special need was underestimated or not disclosed, NCL will probbaly settle with the parents for an undisclosed sum.

 

The sad part is that such a lawsuit may cause cruiselines to reconsider their Kids Club programs and not accept any "special needs" children.

NCL is probably liable in this incident, but there do not appear to be any damages. The parents simply discovered the child in their stateroom, unhurt, before anyone knew he was missing. In any case, OP said he wasn't looking for a payoff, just to get some closure and assurance that NCL was taking the incident seriously.

[kerrytens]

Both the parents and NCL may be responsible; NCL is liable. Unless the documentation signed by the parents indicates that a special need was underestimated or not disclosed, NCL will probbaly settle with the parents for an undisclosed sum.

 

The sad part is that such a lawsuit may cause cruiselines to reconsider their Kids Club programs and not accept any "special needs" children.

I would hope that something positive would come out of this issue actaully. Knowing that NCL reads these boards, I have no doubt whatsoever that they are all over it and have already started to look at how to make their programs safer.

 

I would not be surprised either if they have tried to reach out again to Ben's parents with a much needed heartfelt apology and a promise to get to the bottom of it.

[Rzelden]

I want to thank the most recent posters for their positive and informed comments. I have stayed away from this thread because many of the replies were so ridiculous and rude. Just for the record, I have not, nor will I, contact an attorney about this matter. I'm not looking for a payday. As one recent poster said, I'm just looking for a heartfelt apology and explanation and closure. It took way too long for NCL to reply to my initial letter and the response I received was offensive.

 

FYI, the day that the story broke written by Dori, we received an email from NCL apologizing for offending us with their initial letter, but still, no explanation, nothing more was offered, so I doubt that I will ever hear from them again. They have swept this under the rug just as I suspected they would.

 

Lesson learned, the kids clubs are not as safe as we would like and perhaps we shouldn't use them again. They are potentially under staffed and under trained and each parent needs to make that determination for themselves before leaving their children in the care of strangers.

 

I don't care what the circumstances are, no child should ever be able to leave the kids club on their own, period.

[kerrytens]

I want to thank the most recent posters for their positive and informed comments. I have stayed away from this thread because many of the replies were so ridiculous and rude. Just for the record, I have not, nor will I, contact an attorney about this matter. I'm not looking for a payday. As one recent poster said, I'm just looking for a heartfelt apology and explanation and closure. It took way too long for NCL to reply to my initial letter and the response I received was offensive.

 

FYI, the day that the story broke written by Dori, we received an email from NCL apologizing for offending us with their initial letter, but still, no explanation, nothing more was offered, so I doubt that I will ever hear from them again. They have swept this under the rug just as I suspected they would.

 

Lesson learned, the kids clubs are not as safe as we would like and perhaps we shouldn't use them again. They are potentially under staffed and under trained and each parent needs to make that determination for themselves before leaving their children in the care of strangers.

 

I don't care what the circumstances are, no child should ever be able to leave the kids club on their own, period.

Rzelden, thank you for coming back to the thread. As someone who wrote before truly thinking, I am truly sorry for my initial remarks.

 

I am so glad that you brought up this issue. Peace to you and your family.

[electricron]

I don't care what the circumstances are, no child should ever be able to leave the kids club on their own, period.

 

I fell the same way about criminals finding a way to break out of prison. But when it happens the warden and guards aren't fired, corrective actions taken aren't fully disclosed. If anyone, including a child, a cat, or a dog, wants to break out of a room hard enough, they will find a way.

Your child was successful getting through an opened door, a door opened probably for somebody else. The only definite way to prevent that is to never open the door for anyone between opening and closing. Do you really want that?

[Fydlstyx]

Both the parents and NCL may be responsible; NCL is liable. Unless the documentation signed by the parents indicates that a special need was underestimated or not disclosed, NCL will probbaly settle with the parents for an undisclosed sum.

 

The sad part is that such a lawsuit may cause cruiselines to reconsider their Kids Club programs and not accept any "special needs" children.

 

 

This is so ridiculous. It doesn't matter AT ALL if the child had special needs. The PROBLEM here is that the kids club let the child walk out - in fact, they did not even KNOW he had left.

 

It doesn't matter one iota that the little boy happens to be autistic. That information doesn't even need to be included. This incident is horrifying no matter WHAT kid they lost track of. Any harm that befell him or any other child that the inept staff failed to notice wandering off would be the fault of the staff members being paid to care for the children attending the program. NCL ought to be offering to settle. They ought to be apologizing all over the place, and they ought to fire the staff members who failed to do their job.

[Fydlstyx]

Rzelden, thank you for coming back to the thread. As someone who wrote before truly thinking, I am truly sorry for my initial remarks.

 

I am so glad that you brought up this issue. Peace to you and your family.

 

You are one hundred percent correct and I am only sorry that you have been subjected to some of the absolutely ridiculous and out of line comments that you have read here.

[dwjoe]

FYI, the day that the story broke written by Dori, we received an email from NCL apologizing for offending us with their initial letter, but still, no explanation, nothing more was offered, so I doubt that I will ever hear from them again.

Thanks for the followup.

 

I don't care what the circumstances are, no child should ever be able to leave the kids club on their own, period.

You are absolutely right and that is the decisive point in this case.

 

Lesson learned, the kids clubs are not as safe as we would like and perhaps we shouldn't use them again. They are potentially under staffed and under trained and each parent needs to make that determination for themselves before leaving their children in the care of strangers.

Lesson learned, indeed. Thanks for sharing your story.

[Karysa]

A few ships with special needs councellors would be a wonderful service for families with children who need this service. My twin DD's are hoping to work as one-to-one councellors this summer. Not many camps have a program like this and it is very well used. All parents need a little alone time.

[time2cruise1]

Maybe the title of the article should be Norwegian Cruise Ship crew "finds" Autistic Boy. Not Loses

 

I hope the parents filled out a Vacation Hero card for their room steward.

[Rzelden]

Seriously, that's what you have taken from this story, that room steward "found" my son? He didn't find my son, my son found him. And yes, the fact that Jose stayed with my son is one of a few positive moments I could focus on, it doesn't change the fact that a child was able to leave and no one knew about it. I can't understand and I will never understand why so many people choose to deflect. This was/is a horrible travesty. Again, it doesn't matter how my son left, or that he has ASD, the only thing that matters is a child, a human life that should have been protected by the people who accepted responsibility, was not protected by them. But again, I will never know the facts. There are only a few things I know, and one of them is that the Internet breeds trolls and morons and many of them have accounts with cruise critic. Thanks again to those of you that have posted thoughtful and informed comments and responses.

[ripjerry95]

I am sorry that happened to the child!

[Rzelden]

Which part?

[Rzelden]

Thanks

[NayRN]

Seriously, that's what you have taken from this story, that room steward "found" my son? He didn't find my son, my son found him. And yes, the fact that Jose stayed with my son is one of a few positive moments I could focus on, it doesn't change the fact that a child was able to leave and no one knew about it. I can't understand and I will never understand why so many people choose to deflect. This was/is a horrible travesty. Again, it doesn't matter how my son left, or that he has ASD, the only thing that matters is a child, a human life that should have been protected by the people who accepted responsibility, was not protected by them. But again, I will never know the facts. There are only a few things I know, and one of them is that the Internet breeds trolls and morons and many of them have accounts with cruise critic. Thanks again to those of you that have posted thoughtful and informed comments and responses.

 

Wow! Really? Morons?!:eek:

 

I've been following this thread since the beginning, making me rethink having the girls I'm taking go the the Kids Club. I haven't said anything because, well, I really had nothing to add that would have helped you. But calling people names who don't agree with you a moron is just wrong! Everyone is entitled to their own opinion...and no one is required to agree with it. But when you post on a public thread and call people morons......that's almost akin to the pot calling the kettle black! You should have expected people to NOT see your side of what happened....that's human nature! I was insulted by your name calling and I didn't even disagree with you!

 

Maybe you should "man-up" and apologize for the name calling!

[kerrytens]

A few ships with special needs councellors would be a wonderful service for families with children who need this service. My twin DD's are hoping to work as one-to-one councellors this summer. Not many camps have a program like this and it is very well used. All parents need a little alone time.

There is an organization called Autism on the Seas that does group cruises with trained counsellors. They do provide respite time for the families and do many group activities as well. While still not one on one care, it is a better counsellor per child ratio.

[Rzelden]

Wow! Really? Morons?!:eek:

 

I've been following this thread since the beginning, making me rethink having the girls I'm taking go the the Kids Club. I haven't said anything because, well, I really had nothing to add that would have helped you. But calling people names who don't agree with you a moron is just wrong! Everyone is entitled to their own opinion...and no one is required to agree with it. But when you post on a public thread and call people morons......that's almost akin to the pot calling the kettle black! You should have expected people to NOT see your side of what happened....that's human nature! I was insulted by your name calling and I didn't even disagree with you!

 

Maybe you should "man-up" and apologize for the name calling!

 

Have you read all of the posts? Have you read where people don't think NCL did anything wrong? Have you read where people accuse me of wanting to paid off? Those are the people who my comments were directed at. I'm sorry if I offended you, but when will someone else "man up" as you put it and apologize for making ridiculous, uninformed comments? I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with me, but make an informed statement, don't blast people before you have all the facts.

 

Why would someone write, " is this really news" or "is this Fox News"? I don't see where I have done anything but state what happened and hope to inform others. I'm not pointing the finger at you, but it would appear that a lot of the negative comments were made by posters who frequent NCL. All I would ask is that future posters read the story and the entire thread before making snap judgements about my parenting skills or using my sons diagnosis as a reason why it was not NCL's fault that he was able to walk out.

 

Again, I apologize for offending anyone, but very few people have apologized for offending me as we'll.

[kerrytens]

 

Again, I apologize for offending anyone, but very few people have apologized for offending me as we'll.

I don't believe you have anything to apologize for - you and your family have been through something very upsetting so it is quite understandable that you are passionate about getting the word out. You have certainly made me stop and think about what I'll do on my next cruise with my daughter.

 

I do hope that NCL is continuing to read this thread and that they are performing some sort of internal review. While they may or may not let you personally know the results, it would be nice to know that something good can come out of this scary situation. Something went wrong and it could have ended with a tragedy - they owe it to all parents to find out what happened and keep it from happening again.

[Karysa]

Maybe the title of the article should be Norwegian Cruise Ship crew "finds" Autistic Boy. Not Loses

 

I hope the parents filled out a Vacation Hero card for their room steward.

 

Did you read that the parents signed the child into the childrens program after making sure that the staff was aware of his autism and special needs? They accepted him. He did not have sign out privelledges. He was apparently able to just walk out the front door.

 

Who lost the child in your eyes?

 

Regarding the steward that found the boy. NCL should have already rewarded him. He saved a lot of heartache for the boy, the family and NCL as well.

[Zeno]

>> So, it was a very unfortunate situation with unrealistic expectations placed on NCL that they either accepted or didn't know what they were in for.

>>

 

Although I sympathize with the feelings of the parent and I absolutely agree that in terms of ensuring the safety of this child NCL kid's program dropped the ball -- my gut feeling is that the above summarizes the reality of the situation best.

 

My DH has worked with Special Needs kids (many autistic) and he feels that entrusting an autistic child to those NOT trained specifically to meet their needs or even to understand those needs is frankly - a mistake. It is NOT enough to tell care-givers that a child is autistic. Unless care-givers have a good understanding of autistic behaviours they will not be equiped to provide an appropriate environment for that child.

 

I think that the NCL kid's program should NOT have accepted this child - that was their biggest mistake.

And I think that NCL should contact the parents to let them know what they are doing to prevent this kind of situtation from happening again.

 

As for offering the parents compensation with a non-disclosure agreement - this is just a standard for legal reasons. The parents should not feel offended - although I understand why they are.

Personally I believe that a sincere apology and a change in corporate policy would have been more appropriate. Children whose needs require specialized understanding and training should not be allowed in a "generalized" kid's program.